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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#039;s Science Adviser Kicks Up a Fuss Over Geoengineering</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/</link>
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		<title>By: Marco</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7345</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 03:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7345</guid>
		<description>This is very news worthy. To state otherwise, as the two above have stated is a folly. Holdren&#039;s main belief is in eugenics, and depopulation, this was outlined in the book he co-authored, Ecoscience. Anything this man states, concerning the future of humanity, must never be ignored; he must always be exposed as a scientist who relies solely on eugenics . This is extremely relevant, as Nazi Germany relied solely on eugenics to commit the atrocities of the holocaust (Scientists in Nazi Germany used bogus science as a means to justify the actions of the holocaust). Therefore,  John Holdren can easily be exposed as a extremely blind and immoral man.

PROOF:

Quotes of John Holdren, Obama&#039;s Chief Science Advisor, in the book, Ecoscience,

Page 837: Compulsory abortions would be legal

Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society. - John Holdren

Page 786: Single mothers should have their babies taken away by the government; or they could be forced to have abortions

One way to carry out this disapproval might be to insist that all illegitimate babies be put up for adoption—especially those born to minors, who generally are not capable of caring properly for a child alone. If a single mother really wished to keep her baby, she might be obliged to go through adoption proceedings and demonstrate her ability to support and care for it. Adoption proceedings probably should remain more difficult for single people than for married couples, in recognition of the relative difficulty of raising children alone. It would even be possible to require pregnant single women to marry or have abortions, perhaps as an alternative to placement for adoption, depending on the society. - John Holdren

Page 787-8: Mass sterilization of humans though drugs in the water supply is OK as long as it doesn&#039;t harm livestock

Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods is a suggestion that seems to horrify people more than most proposals for involuntary fertility control. Indeed, this would pose some very difficult political, legal, and social questions, to say nothing of the technical problems. No such sterilant exists today, nor does one appear to be under development. To be acceptable, such a substance would have to meet some rather stiff requirements: it must be uniformly effective, despite widely varying doses received by individuals, and despite varying degrees of fertility and sensitivity among individuals; it must be free of dangerous or unpleasant side effects; and it must have no effect on members of the opposite sex, children, old people, pets, or livestock. - John Holdren

Page 786-7: The government could control women&#039;s reproduction by either sterilizing them or implanting mandatory long-term birth control

Involuntary fertility control
...
A program of sterilizing women after their second or third child, despite the relatively greater difficulty of the operation than vasectomy, might be easier to implement than trying to sterilize men.
...
The development of a long-term sterilizing capsule that could be implanted under the skin and removed when pregnancy is desired opens additional possibilities for coercive fertility control. The capsule could be implanted at puberty and might be removable, with official permission, for a limited number of births. - John Holdren

Page 942-3: A &quot;Planetary Regime&quot; should control the global economy and dictate by force the number of children allowed to be born

Toward a Planetary Regime
...
Perhaps those agencies, combined with UNEP and the United Nations population agencies, might eventually be developed into a Planetary Regime—sort of an international superagency for population, resources, and environment. Such a comprehensive Planetary Regime could control the development, administration, conservation, and distribution of all natural resources, renewable or nonrenewable, at least insofar as international implications exist. Thus the Regime could have the power to control pollution not only in the atmosphere and oceans, but also in such freshwater bodies as rivers and lakes that cross international boundaries or that discharge into the oceans. The Regime might also be a logical central agency for regulating all international trade, perhaps including assistance from DCs to LDCs, and including all food on the international market.

The Planetary Regime might be given responsibility for determining the optimum population for the world and for each region and for arbitrating various countries&#039; shares within their regional limits. Control of population size might remain the responsibility of each government, but the Regime would have some power to enforce the agreed limits. - John Holdren

Page 838: Nothing is wrong or illegal about the government dictating family size

In today&#039;s world, however, the number of children in a family is a matter of profound public concern. The law regulates other highly personal matters. For example, no one may lawfully have more than one spouse at a time. Why should the law not be able to prevent a person from having more than two children? - John Holdren

This man is dangerous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very news worthy. To state otherwise, as the two above have stated is a folly. Holdren&#8217;s main belief is in eugenics, and depopulation, this was outlined in the book he co-authored, Ecoscience. Anything this man states, concerning the future of humanity, must never be ignored; he must always be exposed as a scientist who relies solely on eugenics . This is extremely relevant, as Nazi Germany relied solely on eugenics to commit the atrocities of the holocaust (Scientists in Nazi Germany used bogus science as a means to justify the actions of the holocaust). Therefore,  John Holdren can easily be exposed as a extremely blind and immoral man.</p>
<p>PROOF:</p>
<p>Quotes of John Holdren, Obama&#8217;s Chief Science Advisor, in the book, Ecoscience,</p>
<p>Page 837: Compulsory abortions would be legal</p>
<p>Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society. &#8211; John Holdren</p>
<p>Page 786: Single mothers should have their babies taken away by the government; or they could be forced to have abortions</p>
<p>One way to carry out this disapproval might be to insist that all illegitimate babies be put up for adoption—especially those born to minors, who generally are not capable of caring properly for a child alone. If a single mother really wished to keep her baby, she might be obliged to go through adoption proceedings and demonstrate her ability to support and care for it. Adoption proceedings probably should remain more difficult for single people than for married couples, in recognition of the relative difficulty of raising children alone. It would even be possible to require pregnant single women to marry or have abortions, perhaps as an alternative to placement for adoption, depending on the society. &#8211; John Holdren</p>
<p>Page 787-8: Mass sterilization of humans though drugs in the water supply is OK as long as it doesn&#8217;t harm livestock</p>
<p>Adding a sterilant to drinking water or staple foods is a suggestion that seems to horrify people more than most proposals for involuntary fertility control. Indeed, this would pose some very difficult political, legal, and social questions, to say nothing of the technical problems. No such sterilant exists today, nor does one appear to be under development. To be acceptable, such a substance would have to meet some rather stiff requirements: it must be uniformly effective, despite widely varying doses received by individuals, and despite varying degrees of fertility and sensitivity among individuals; it must be free of dangerous or unpleasant side effects; and it must have no effect on members of the opposite sex, children, old people, pets, or livestock. &#8211; John Holdren</p>
<p>Page 786-7: The government could control women&#8217;s reproduction by either sterilizing them or implanting mandatory long-term birth control</p>
<p>Involuntary fertility control<br />
&#8230;<br />
A program of sterilizing women after their second or third child, despite the relatively greater difficulty of the operation than vasectomy, might be easier to implement than trying to sterilize men.<br />
&#8230;<br />
The development of a long-term sterilizing capsule that could be implanted under the skin and removed when pregnancy is desired opens additional possibilities for coercive fertility control. The capsule could be implanted at puberty and might be removable, with official permission, for a limited number of births. &#8211; John Holdren</p>
<p>Page 942-3: A &#8220;Planetary Regime&#8221; should control the global economy and dictate by force the number of children allowed to be born</p>
<p>Toward a Planetary Regime<br />
&#8230;<br />
Perhaps those agencies, combined with UNEP and the United Nations population agencies, might eventually be developed into a Planetary Regime—sort of an international superagency for population, resources, and environment. Such a comprehensive Planetary Regime could control the development, administration, conservation, and distribution of all natural resources, renewable or nonrenewable, at least insofar as international implications exist. Thus the Regime could have the power to control pollution not only in the atmosphere and oceans, but also in such freshwater bodies as rivers and lakes that cross international boundaries or that discharge into the oceans. The Regime might also be a logical central agency for regulating all international trade, perhaps including assistance from DCs to LDCs, and including all food on the international market.</p>
<p>The Planetary Regime might be given responsibility for determining the optimum population for the world and for each region and for arbitrating various countries&#8217; shares within their regional limits. Control of population size might remain the responsibility of each government, but the Regime would have some power to enforce the agreed limits. &#8211; John Holdren</p>
<p>Page 838: Nothing is wrong or illegal about the government dictating family size</p>
<p>In today&#8217;s world, however, the number of children in a family is a matter of profound public concern. The law regulates other highly personal matters. For example, no one may lawfully have more than one spouse at a time. Why should the law not be able to prevent a person from having more than two children? &#8211; John Holdren</p>
<p>This man is dangerous.</p>
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		<title>By: ASTM D6866</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7344</link>
		<dc:creator>ASTM D6866</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 03:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7344</guid>
		<description>I agree with Nathan. This isn&#039;t news worthy. The newsroom was probably too slow that day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Nathan. This isn&#8217;t news worthy. The newsroom was probably too slow that day.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7343</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 02:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7343</guid>
		<description>I think a better title for this article would be: &quot;AP Kicks Up Fuss Over Obama&#039;s Science Advisor&quot;.  He is absolutely right.  In that kind of position, you need to discuss everything.  NOT act, just make sure everyone knows those ideas are out there, what kind of last ditch contingencies do we have kind of thing.  Very prudent.

What is imprudent is AP making a mountain out of a molehill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a better title for this article would be: &#8220;AP Kicks Up Fuss Over Obama&#8217;s Science Advisor&#8221;.  He is absolutely right.  In that kind of position, you need to discuss everything.  NOT act, just make sure everyone knows those ideas are out there, what kind of last ditch contingencies do we have kind of thing.  Very prudent.</p>
<p>What is imprudent is AP making a mountain out of a molehill.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Arnold</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7342</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7342</guid>
		<description>The world&#039;s emissions of the main planet-warming gas carbon dioxide will rise over 50 percent to more than 42 billion tonnes per year from 2005 to 2030 as China leads a rise in burning coal, the U.S. government forecast on Wednesday. China&#039;s coal demand will rise 3.2 percent annually from 2005 to 2030, the Energy Information Administration said in its International Energy Outlook 2008. --Reuters, 26 June 2008

Any carbon diet strategy would be dependent upon clean coal:

&quot;The vast majority of new power stations in China and India will be coal-fired; not &quot;may be coal-fired&quot;; will be. So developing carbon capture and storage technology is not optional, it is literally of the essence.&quot; --&quot;Breaking the Climate Deadlock,&quot; Tony Blair, June 26, 2008

But, Vaclav Smil, an energy expert at the University of Manitoba, has estimated that capturing and burying just 10 percent of the carbon dioxide emitted over a year from coal-fire plants at current rates would require moving volumes of compressed carbon d ioxide greater than the total annual flow of oil worldwide -- a massive undertaking requiring decades and trillions of dollars. &quot;Beware of the scale,&quot; he stressed.&quot;

&quot;I&#039;m going to tell you something I probably shouldn&#039;t: we may not be able to stop global warming. We need to begin curbing global greenhouse emissions right now, but more than a decade after the signing of the Kyoto Protocol, the world has utterly failed to do so. Unless the geopolitics of global warming change soon, the Hail Mary pass of geoengineering might become our best shot.&quot; --Bryan Walsh, Time Magazine, 17 March 2008</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The world&#8217;s emissions of the main planet-warming gas carbon dioxide will rise over 50 percent to more than 42 billion tonnes per year from 2005 to 2030 as China leads a rise in burning coal, the U.S. government forecast on Wednesday. China&#8217;s coal demand will rise 3.2 percent annually from 2005 to 2030, the Energy Information Administration said in its International Energy Outlook 2008. &#8211;Reuters, 26 June 2008</p>
<p>Any carbon diet strategy would be dependent upon clean coal:</p>
<p>&#8220;The vast majority of new power stations in China and India will be coal-fired; not &#8220;may be coal-fired&#8221;; will be. So developing carbon capture and storage technology is not optional, it is literally of the essence.&#8221; &#8211;&#8221;Breaking the Climate Deadlock,&#8221; Tony Blair, June 26, 2008</p>
<p>But, Vaclav Smil, an energy expert at the University of Manitoba, has estimated that capturing and burying just 10 percent of the carbon dioxide emitted over a year from coal-fire plants at current rates would require moving volumes of compressed carbon d ioxide greater than the total annual flow of oil worldwide &#8212; a massive undertaking requiring decades and trillions of dollars. &#8220;Beware of the scale,&#8221; he stressed.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;I&#8217;m going to tell you something I probably shouldn&#8217;t: we may not be able to stop global warming. We need to begin curbing global greenhouse emissions right now, but more than a decade after the signing of the Kyoto Protocol, the world has utterly failed to do so. Unless the geopolitics of global warming change soon, the Hail Mary pass of geoengineering might become our best shot.&#8221; &#8211;Bryan Walsh, Time Magazine, 17 March 2008</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Arnold</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7341</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 20:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7341</guid>
		<description>Our short-lived sun dimming pollution is already cooling the Earth 1 to 2 degrees C, so we are already accidentally geoengineering, leading to what Dr James Lovelock calls &quot;a fool&#039;s climate.&quot;

There is a cheap and simple way to immediately cool down the Earth: just add a little (more) sun dimming aerosol to the upper atmosphere.  An engineered sun dimming aerosol could be ten times more effective as sulfur, not damage the ozone.  If you want to reverse this form of geoengineering, just halt and it will wash out of the air in a couple of years.

The Greens&#039; resistance to geo-engineering sits very uncomfortably with its message that the planet is screwed and we&#039;re all going to die. It suggests that Environmentalism has less to do with saving the planet than it does with reining in human aspirations. It suggests that they don&#039;t actually believe their own press releases, and that they know the situation is not as dire as they would like the rest of us to think it is. And that Environmentalists are cutting off their noses to spite their faces - &quot;we&#039;ll save the planet our way or not at all.&quot; It suggests that Environmentalists regard science and engineering as the cause of problems, and not the solution. --Climate Resistance, 24 March 2008</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our short-lived sun dimming pollution is already cooling the Earth 1 to 2 degrees C, so we are already accidentally geoengineering, leading to what Dr James Lovelock calls &#8220;a fool&#8217;s climate.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is a cheap and simple way to immediately cool down the Earth: just add a little (more) sun dimming aerosol to the upper atmosphere.  An engineered sun dimming aerosol could be ten times more effective as sulfur, not damage the ozone.  If you want to reverse this form of geoengineering, just halt and it will wash out of the air in a couple of years.</p>
<p>The Greens&#8217; resistance to geo-engineering sits very uncomfortably with its message that the planet is screwed and we&#8217;re all going to die. It suggests that Environmentalism has less to do with saving the planet than it does with reining in human aspirations. It suggests that they don&#8217;t actually believe their own press releases, and that they know the situation is not as dire as they would like the rest of us to think it is. And that Environmentalists are cutting off their noses to spite their faces &#8211; &#8220;we&#8217;ll save the planet our way or not at all.&#8221; It suggests that Environmentalists regard science and engineering as the cause of problems, and not the solution. &#8211;Climate Resistance, 24 March 2008</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7340</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7340</guid>
		<description>And where you suppose we will get the hydrogen gas? You do realize that it doesn&#039;t exist in pure form on Earth. Every iota of hydrogen that would be used for your hydrogen cars has to be electrolcyzed from water using electricity. Hydrogen is a medium for energy STORAGE, it is not an energy SOURCE.

I&#039;m sure you&#039;ll say from solar or wind power. Realize this though, no matter how much you want to cry foul on coal for spoiling the environment, it will still be much, much, much cheaper to generate electricity with than any renewable power source for a long time. Solar or wind power will never compete with coal for main grid power, the only green solution for coal is nuclear energy, entirely due to the sheer scale of energy needs in the modern world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And where you suppose we will get the hydrogen gas? You do realize that it doesn&#8217;t exist in pure form on Earth. Every iota of hydrogen that would be used for your hydrogen cars has to be electrolcyzed from water using electricity. Hydrogen is a medium for energy STORAGE, it is not an energy SOURCE.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll say from solar or wind power. Realize this though, no matter how much you want to cry foul on coal for spoiling the environment, it will still be much, much, much cheaper to generate electricity with than any renewable power source for a long time. Solar or wind power will never compete with coal for main grid power, the only green solution for coal is nuclear energy, entirely due to the sheer scale of energy needs in the modern world.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Watts</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7339</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Watts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 05:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7339</guid>
		<description>This is not journalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is not journalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7338</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 17:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7338</guid>
		<description>We shouldnt mess up our climate any further. Our first priority is reducing CO2 emmissions. WHy do we still urn coal for electricity? urning Hydrogen works etter and is cleaner with water as a yproduct. Improving pulic transportation, greater fuel efficient cars. California state alone I read in 2008 consumed more gasoline than any soveign nation esides the USA. Are we that ackwards? Excuse my typos, a certian utton on my keyoard doesnt work</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We shouldnt mess up our climate any further. Our first priority is reducing CO2 emmissions. WHy do we still urn coal for electricity? urning Hydrogen works etter and is cleaner with water as a yproduct. Improving pulic transportation, greater fuel efficient cars. California state alone I read in 2008 consumed more gasoline than any soveign nation esides the USA. Are we that ackwards? Excuse my typos, a certian utton on my keyoard doesnt work</p>
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		<title>By: paul</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7337</link>
		<dc:creator>paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7337</guid>
		<description>Aha, the science advisor is as nuanced as Obama. It would seem geoenginnering is being discussed as a  last ditch, the-sky-is-REALLY-falling kind of tool.

A very prudent approach really. If the sh*t hits the fan, someone needs to think about raincoats!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aha, the science advisor is as nuanced as Obama. It would seem geoenginnering is being discussed as a  last ditch, the-sky-is-REALLY-falling kind of tool.</p>
<p>A very prudent approach really. If the sh*t hits the fan, someone needs to think about raincoats!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7336</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 16:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/10/obamas-science-adviser-kicks-up-a-fuss-over-geoengineering/#comment-7336</guid>
		<description>Read &quot;The Cooling World&quot; Article, NEWSWEEK, April 28, 1975, and the proposal to spread soot in the Arctic ice to absorb (nor reflect) sunlight to help warm the planet.  Fortunately, this was never done.

Thirty years later, with the claim of manmade global warming in vogue, the crackpots are once again coming out of the wood work.  Somebody must bring them under control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Read &#8220;The Cooling World&#8221; Article, NEWSWEEK, April 28, 1975, and the proposal to spread soot in the Arctic ice to absorb (nor reflect) sunlight to help warm the planet.  Fortunately, this was never done.</p>
<p>Thirty years later, with the claim of manmade global warming in vogue, the crackpots are once again coming out of the wood work.  Somebody must bring them under control.</p>
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