Comments on: Bird Flu in Egypt and Swine Flu in California Raise Guarded Concerns http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/ 80beats is DISCOVER's news aggregator, weaving together the choicest tidbits from the best articles covering the day\'s most compelling topics. Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:08:59 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: stan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-2/#comment-41947 stan Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:26:43 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-41947 Let's all panic, folks. In India, a GRAND TOTAL of 21 people have died from swine flu. Meanwhile, 1,000 Indians die EVERY DAY from tuberculosis. Let’s all panic, folks. In India, a GRAND TOTAL of 21 people have died from swine flu. Meanwhile, 1,000 Indians die EVERY DAY from tuberculosis.

]]> By: YouRang http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-2/#comment-25542 YouRang Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:41:16 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-25542 No one has mentioned (in all the talk about mutation) that the reason there is bird, swine and human flu mixed together is that there are 8 regions on the outside of the flu virus that are relatively stable. They are stable; but if an organism (usually pigs in Asia, but sometimes birds (also usually in Asia) and also sometimes humans) gets more than one kind of flu, there is a possibility that the same cell will become infected by the 2 or 3 kinds of flu and the result will be a new mosaic. Each year they make up a batch of anti-virus for 3 of the mosaics that appear to be the most likely to cause severe illness. Last year, there was a late surge of flu that was relatively mild--it was a strain they hadn't included (presumably because it was so mild). I had the shot and I got a mild illness late in March that the Dr called flu; however, I had almost identical symptoms this year (minus the low fever but with the same funny punctillate aches (not the usual flu crushing aches)) and it was my usual tree allergies. No one has mentioned (in all the talk about mutation) that the reason there is bird, swine and human flu mixed together is that there are 8 regions on the outside of the flu virus that are relatively stable. They are stable; but if an organism (usually pigs in Asia, but sometimes birds (also usually in Asia) and also sometimes humans) gets more than one kind of flu, there is a possibility that the same cell will become infected by the 2 or 3 kinds of flu and the result will be a new mosaic. Each year they make up a batch of anti-virus for 3 of the mosaics that appear to be the most likely to cause severe illness. Last year, there was a late surge of flu that was relatively mild–it was a strain they hadn’t included (presumably because it was so mild). I had the shot and I got a mild illness late in March that the Dr called flu; however, I had almost identical symptoms this year (minus the low fever but with the same funny punctillate aches (not the usual flu crushing aches)) and it was my usual tree allergies.

]]> By: Sheryl http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-2/#comment-25381 Sheryl Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:38:14 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-25381 Some time ago I saw an excellent documentary on the influenza pandemic of 1918. It explained really well that bird flu viruses (chickens, geese, ducks) can be contagious to pigs. Because pigs have a physiology that is so similar to humans, the virus can mutate in the pig to a type that is contagious to humans. On farms, these animals are generally in close contact. It is close physical contact between pigs and humans then that allows the virus to transmit to humans. That is why there is bird, swine and human virus agents in the H1N1 virus. If it is like the 1918 virus, it is actually a mutated bird flu, not strictly a swine flu. It is believed by many who studied the 1918 flu that it began in Europe in areas where large numbers of American (an other) service men were stationed and the service men had farms with chickens, geese, etc. and pigs. The virus had mutated from the birds through the pigs to the service men but no one knew. Finally as these service men took leave to go home, it began to spread all over the world. The flu is airborne from human to human. There were so many service men that died it was said it was more dangerous to be in the service stationed in the US than at the front in Europe. The 1918 flu seemed to be more severe in that the infected people died usually within 24 to 48 hours. That doesn't seem to be the case with H1N1. Also, another key element is that the people who were most affected were younger healthier people which is the same as the H1N1 virus. The reason, it was explained, was that those people generally have the most efficient immune systems - so effective that it overreacts in contact with the strange virus. As an example, normally the lungs create fluid to fight the virus. In those people, there was so much fluid, it killed the sufferer. They literally drowned from it. The documentary was on the History Channel I think. I hope they run it again. It would help clear up some of the mystery. Some time ago I saw an excellent documentary on the influenza pandemic of 1918. It explained really well that bird flu viruses (chickens, geese, ducks) can be contagious to pigs. Because pigs have a physiology that is so similar to humans, the virus can mutate in the pig to a type that is contagious to humans. On farms, these animals are generally in close contact. It is close physical contact between pigs and humans then that allows the virus to transmit to humans.

That is why there is bird, swine and human virus agents in the H1N1 virus. If it is like the 1918 virus, it is actually a mutated bird flu, not strictly a swine flu. It is believed by many who studied the 1918 flu that it began in Europe in areas where large numbers of American (an other) service men were stationed and the service men had farms with chickens, geese, etc. and pigs. The virus had mutated from the birds through the pigs to the service men but no one knew. Finally as these service men took leave to go home, it began to spread all over the world. The flu is airborne from human to human. There were so many service men that died it was said it was more dangerous to be in the service stationed in the US than at the front in Europe.

The 1918 flu seemed to be more severe in that the infected people died usually within 24 to 48 hours. That doesn’t seem to be the case with H1N1. Also, another key element is that the people who were most affected were younger healthier people which is the same as the H1N1 virus. The reason, it was explained, was that those people generally have the most efficient immune systems – so effective that it overreacts in contact with the strange virus. As an example, normally the lungs create fluid to fight the virus. In those people, there was so much fluid, it killed the sufferer. They literally drowned from it.

The documentary was on the History Channel I think. I hope they run it again. It would help clear up some of the mystery.

]]> By: Holley http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-2/#comment-25183 Holley Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:20:35 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-25183 Current swine flu will mutate. That's it's job. What are the chances it mutates to lethal per human to human contact, that's the question. But Kris is right, it's a bit scary! Current swine flu will mutate. That’s it’s job. What are the chances it mutates to lethal per human to human contact, that’s the question. But Kris is right, it’s a bit scary!

]]> By: Kris in AL http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-1/#comment-25100 Kris in AL Tue, 28 Apr 2009 03:47:13 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-25100 I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE CHANCES ARE THAT THE CURRENT SWINE FLU VIRUS COULD EITHER MUTATE OR BE MUTATED BY H5N1 WHEN THEY INTERACT WHEN THEY COME IN PROXIMITY AS THE SWINE FLU VIRUS TRAVELS THE GLOBE? IT IS SCARY TO THINK THAT THE H5N1 WILL FINALLY MAKE THE SIGNIFICANT JUMP VIA THE SWINE FLU VIRUS WHICH IS ALREADY MADE UP OF HUMAN, FOWL AND PIG GENETIC MATERIALS. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE CHANCES ARE THAT THE CURRENT SWINE FLU VIRUS COULD EITHER MUTATE OR BE MUTATED BY H5N1 WHEN THEY INTERACT WHEN THEY COME IN PROXIMITY AS THE SWINE FLU VIRUS TRAVELS THE GLOBE?

IT IS SCARY TO THINK THAT THE H5N1 WILL FINALLY MAKE THE SIGNIFICANT JUMP VIA THE SWINE FLU VIRUS WHICH IS ALREADY MADE UP OF HUMAN, FOWL AND PIG GENETIC MATERIALS.

]]> By: Eliza Strickland http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-1/#comment-25045 Eliza Strickland Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:37:27 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-25045 MsCetacea, Judy and some others: Thanks for your rational responses, it's very important to combat misinformation and prevent hysteria. As both those commenters pointed out, flu viruses can mix naturally in pigs, creating new strains. That happens all the time. But this latest new strain happens to be capable of being transmitted from human to human. Bad luck for us. Doesn't mean there's a conspiracy afoot, or that the end is near. MsCetacea, Judy and some others:

Thanks for your rational responses, it’s very important to combat misinformation and prevent hysteria.

As both those commenters pointed out, flu viruses can mix naturally in pigs, creating new strains. That happens all the time. But this latest new strain happens to be capable of being transmitted from human to human. Bad luck for us. Doesn’t mean there’s a conspiracy afoot, or that the end is near.

]]> By: Dave http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-1/#comment-25024 Dave Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:31:28 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-25024 The problem here is that a) this is a new disease and b) it's spreading human to human according to the CDC. This is not sars, this is not bird flu (rare human to human). Sars was easy to detect because people were not contagious until they showed symptoms but Influenza carriers can be contagious days before they show any symptoms (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1894072,00.html). It's better to be overcautious and figure out how bad this thing is, than take a carefree approach that leads to a 1918 epidemic killing 100M people (and in 1918, there was no global air travel). The problem here is that a) this is a new disease and b) it’s spreading human to human according to the CDC. This is not sars, this is not bird flu (rare human to human). Sars was easy to detect because people were not contagious until they showed symptoms but Influenza carriers can be contagious days before they show any symptoms (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1894072,00.html). It’s better to be overcautious and figure out how bad this thing is, than take a carefree approach that leads to a 1918 epidemic killing 100M people (and in 1918, there was no global air travel).

]]> By: Napoleon http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-1/#comment-25014 Napoleon Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:07:47 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-25014 Oh, what a surprise! This flu came from a people who eat brian tacos, never close their legs, and come into OUR country illegally because they can't run their own. Thanks Mexico! You've been demeaning our species for thousands of years. I hope a bomb drops over Mexico and wipes all of you "se habla espanols" out! Oh, what a surprise! This flu came from a people who eat brian tacos, never close their legs, and come into OUR country illegally because they can’t run their own. Thanks Mexico! You’ve been demeaning our species for thousands of years. I hope a bomb drops over Mexico and wipes all of you “se habla espanols” out!

]]> By: NoSwineVaccineForMe http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-1/#comment-25011 NoSwineVaccineForMe Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:32:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-25011 I received the swine flu vaccine in 1976. It made me as sick as I have ever been. Unless we have a mass extinction event, I will not be receiving it this time. I received the swine flu vaccine in 1976. It made me as sick as I have ever been. Unless we have a mass extinction event, I will not be receiving it this time.

]]> By: Jennifer http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-1/#comment-24981 Jennifer Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:18:45 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-24981 Vaccines are cultured with substances that are foreign to the human body like monkey kidney cells, chicken embryos, and calf serum. They also contain things like themerosol, aluminum and formaldehyde among other foreign substances. They are then injected directly into the bloodstream totally bypassing the liver and kidney which are the organs designed to filter toxins before allowing it to enter the bloodstream. Thanks but no thanks. Think I'll work on boosting my immune system, stay away from crowds and wash my hands frequently rather than subject myself to big-pharma's witches brew. Vaccines are cultured with substances that are foreign to the human body like monkey kidney cells, chicken embryos, and calf serum. They also contain things like themerosol, aluminum and formaldehyde among other foreign substances. They are then injected directly into the bloodstream totally bypassing the liver and kidney which are the organs designed to filter toxins before allowing it to enter the bloodstream. Thanks but no thanks. Think I’ll work on boosting my immune system, stay away from crowds and wash my hands frequently rather than subject myself to big-pharma’s witches brew.

]]> By: Marie http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-1/#comment-24943 Marie Mon, 27 Apr 2009 04:25:33 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-24943 Joe, No. the flu virus that is given today is attenuated (dead) there is no way for people to get the flu from a flu shot these days. now if they are getting the version that can be inhailed, that is a weak live virus and that will give them flu symptoms. Joe, No. the flu virus that is given today is attenuated (dead) there is no way for people to get the flu from a flu shot these days. now if they are getting the version that can be inhailed, that is a weak live virus and that will give them flu symptoms.

]]> By: Suze http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-1/#comment-24939 Suze Mon, 27 Apr 2009 04:01:33 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-24939 I'm frightened for my 1-year-old son. I am a stay-at-home mom, but recently I've had to put him in daycare 2 days a week, while I have to be at the hospital. In daycare he is exposed to germs and viruses of all sorts, and his immune system is not developed yet. Also, I am expecting a new baby in the next 2 months. The baby won't have too much exposure to large groups of people for some time, but still, babies are vulnerable. What is the risk of this new strain of flu to infants and toddlers? And what can we as parents do to protect our children? Hand washing is not enough here... I’m frightened for my 1-year-old son. I am a stay-at-home mom, but recently I’ve had to put him in daycare 2 days a week, while I have to be at the hospital. In daycare he is exposed to germs and viruses of all sorts, and his immune system is not developed yet.

Also, I am expecting a new baby in the next 2 months. The baby won’t have too much exposure to large groups of people for some time, but still, babies are vulnerable.

What is the risk of this new strain of flu to infants and toddlers? And what can we as parents do to protect our children? Hand washing is not enough here…

]]> By: Joe http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-1/#comment-24911 Joe Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:39:19 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-24911 ummmmm...to the people that say that they get sick after they get the flu shots i know why.........its because the vaccine contains a very weak flu virus. They give you it because your immune system learns how to fight it off but if the virus mutates and/or you have a weak immune system you will get sick there ya go ummmmm…to the people that say that they get sick after they get the flu shots i know why………its because the vaccine contains a very weak flu virus. They give you it because your immune system learns how to fight it off but if the virus mutates and/or you have a weak immune system you will get sick

there ya go

]]> By: Judy http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-1/#comment-24866 Judy Sun, 26 Apr 2009 15:57:51 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-24866 AP article explains how viruses are combined: "Pigs can catch human and avian flus, so are thought to be a so-called mixing vessel for the viruses - a host in which viruses can swap genes, creating new strains." Sounds pretty natural to me. My anecdotal evidence: ever since I started getting annual flu shots 10 years ago I have not gotten the flu and I take the subway to and from work every day. I have never had side effects from the vaccine either. This hysteria against vaccines will end up making more people sick in the long run. Doesn't anybody else remember how devastating childhood diseases were before there were vaccines to combat them? Kids in braces and iron lungs from polio? AP article explains how viruses are combined:

“Pigs can catch human and avian flus, so are thought to be a so-called mixing vessel for the viruses – a host in which viruses can swap genes, creating new strains.”

Sounds pretty natural to me.

My anecdotal evidence: ever since I started getting annual flu shots 10 years ago I have not gotten the flu and I take the subway to and from work every day. I have never had side effects from the vaccine either.

This hysteria against vaccines will end up making more people sick in the long run. Doesn’t anybody else remember how devastating childhood diseases were before there were vaccines to combat them? Kids in braces and iron lungs from polio?

]]> By: upsman http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/comment-page-1/#comment-24863 upsman Sun, 26 Apr 2009 15:27:36 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/04/23/bird-flu-and-swine-flu-outbreaks-the-health-risks-of-hysteria/#comment-24863 The Truth is Follow the money to the gov and big corp that are big shareholders in .......what corp and/or corps is making a killing on this flu vaccine and/or vaccines this only be the beta testing............works the same the international money master has played US in the bailout game......HOLD These People Responsible.......DEMAND many heads in both the flu and bailout.....Get Mad As Hell........You say You Can't believe anyone would do what? The Truth is Follow the money to the gov and big corp that are big shareholders in …….what corp and/or corps is making a killing on this flu vaccine and/or vaccines this only be the beta testing…………works the same the international money master has played US in the bailout game……HOLD These People Responsible…….DEMAND many heads in both the flu and bailout…..Get Mad As Hell……..You say You Can’t believe anyone would do what?

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