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	<title>Comments on: We Knew Black Holes Were Massive. Now Double That.</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/</link>
	<description>80beats is DISCOVER&#039;s news aggregator, weaving together the choicest tidbits from the best articles covering the day&#039;s most compelling topics.</description>
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		<title>By: Sigrid Santizo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-1454462</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigrid Santizo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Aug 2011 09:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-1454462</guid>
		<description>One other issue is that if you are in a situation where you will not have a cosigner then you may really need to try to wear out all of your financing options. You will find many funds and other grants that will provide you with funds to support with college expenses. Thanks a lot for the post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other issue is that if you are in a situation where you will not have a cosigner then you may really need to try to wear out all of your financing options. You will find many funds and other grants that will provide you with funds to support with college expenses. Thanks a lot for the post.</p>
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		<title>By: SpaceTime Pudding</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33726</link>
		<dc:creator>SpaceTime Pudding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-33726</guid>
		<description>Wow, people still believe in black holes?
There will be mathmaticians in the bread lines, once the masses figure out they&#039;ve been fools all these years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, people still believe in black holes?<br />
There will be mathmaticians in the bread lines, once the masses figure out they&#8217;ve been fools all these years.</p>
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		<title>By: mharratsc</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33661</link>
		<dc:creator>mharratsc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-33661</guid>
		<description>Google  Results 1 - 10 of about 2,200,000 for plasma cosmology. (0.11 seconds)

Where did you look, Pig??  o.O

Best intro to subject at Electric-Cosmos.  That&#039;s an org.

Subjective coverage with lay explanations (multi-disciplinary):  thunderbolts  info.

If you want white papers, peer reviews, and math (*shudder*) then check out plasmascience universe.

Just Google any of those and the first result will be the correct link.

You stated &quot;we should ALL consider new ideas and theories&quot;... here&#039;s your chance to prove it.  Your notion that current model is leaving PC theory in the dust is a matter of perspective, in my opinion.  I think standard cosmology has more kids in the choir, but PC puts *actual* physics to work on the observations, rather than ad hoc explanations to save falsified theories.  As a matter of fact- there is a list of predictions to be found at Thunderbolts that might surprise you...

Happy learning :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google  Results 1 &#8211; 10 of about 2,200,000 for plasma cosmology. (0.11 seconds)</p>
<p>Where did you look, Pig??  o.O</p>
<p>Best intro to subject at Electric-Cosmos.  That&#8217;s an org.</p>
<p>Subjective coverage with lay explanations (multi-disciplinary):  thunderbolts  info.</p>
<p>If you want white papers, peer reviews, and math (*shudder*) then check out plasmascience universe.</p>
<p>Just Google any of those and the first result will be the correct link.</p>
<p>You stated &#8220;we should ALL consider new ideas and theories&#8221;&#8230; here&#8217;s your chance to prove it.  Your notion that current model is leaving PC theory in the dust is a matter of perspective, in my opinion.  I think standard cosmology has more kids in the choir, but PC puts *actual* physics to work on the observations, rather than ad hoc explanations to save falsified theories.  As a matter of fact- there is a list of predictions to be found at Thunderbolts that might surprise you&#8230;</p>
<p>Happy learning :)</p>
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		<title>By: FILTHpig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33513</link>
		<dc:creator>FILTHpig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-33513</guid>
		<description>IF there is data on Plasma Cosmology describing, in detail, the formation of galaxies, I can&#039;t find it (not very &quot;compelling&quot;!). I realize the internet is limited, and once again NOT being a cosmologist, I may not even be searching the right places. 

That being said, from what I can gather, plasma cosmology generally seems to be lacking in detail compared to mainstream cosmology. It&#039;s also missing most of the key predictions and features of the current model. 

So, once again, PROVE IT. We ALL should consider new ideas and theories but it appears the current (accepted) cosmology model being used to solve this problem is leaving your &quot;plasma cosmology&quot; in the dust!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IF there is data on Plasma Cosmology describing, in detail, the formation of galaxies, I can&#8217;t find it (not very &#8220;compelling&#8221;!). I realize the internet is limited, and once again NOT being a cosmologist, I may not even be searching the right places. </p>
<p>That being said, from what I can gather, plasma cosmology generally seems to be lacking in detail compared to mainstream cosmology. It&#8217;s also missing most of the key predictions and features of the current model. </p>
<p>So, once again, PROVE IT. We ALL should consider new ideas and theories but it appears the current (accepted) cosmology model being used to solve this problem is leaving your &#8220;plasma cosmology&#8221; in the dust!</p>
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		<title>By: Anaconda</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33494</link>
		<dc:creator>Anaconda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-33494</guid>
		<description>There is a compelling alternative theory to the gravity &quot;only&quot; model.  It is called Plasma Cosmology.  Basically, PC states that electromagnetic force is also a component of the large scale structures of the Universe.

The problem with so-called &quot;black holes&quot; is not only have they never been directly observed or their so-called &quot;event horizon&quot;, but it is not even rigorously quantified.  So-called &quot;black holes&quot; are defined as a point-mass singularity with infintie density within an infinitely small volume.

Infinity can&#039;t be quantified by definition.

So, &quot;black holes&quot; don&#039;t sit on a foundation of rigorous quantification as &quot;modern&quot; astronomers would have the general public believe, it&#039;s strictly a product of men&#039;s imaginations with no quantified theoretical foundation.

When electromagnetism is considered you don&#039;t need &quot;dark&quot; matter which has never been detected, or &quot;dark&quot; energy, again never detected.

Astronomy is on the wrong path.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a compelling alternative theory to the gravity &#8220;only&#8221; model.  It is called Plasma Cosmology.  Basically, PC states that electromagnetic force is also a component of the large scale structures of the Universe.</p>
<p>The problem with so-called &#8220;black holes&#8221; is not only have they never been directly observed or their so-called &#8220;event horizon&#8221;, but it is not even rigorously quantified.  So-called &#8220;black holes&#8221; are defined as a point-mass singularity with infintie density within an infinitely small volume.</p>
<p>Infinity can&#8217;t be quantified by definition.</p>
<p>So, &#8220;black holes&#8221; don&#8217;t sit on a foundation of rigorous quantification as &#8220;modern&#8221; astronomers would have the general public believe, it&#8217;s strictly a product of men&#8217;s imaginations with no quantified theoretical foundation.</p>
<p>When electromagnetism is considered you don&#8217;t need &#8220;dark&#8221; matter which has never been detected, or &#8220;dark&#8221; energy, again never detected.</p>
<p>Astronomy is on the wrong path.</p>
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		<title>By: FILTHpig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33476</link>
		<dc:creator>FILTHpig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-33476</guid>
		<description>Well, first of all, NOT religious (unless I&#039;m in a plane that is about to crash, then I may puss-out and start praying to any and all Gods!). And, obviously, I&#039;m not a astronomer. Just a lowly (and juvenile!) blog reader with an intrest in cosmology.

That being said, mharratsc, if you truly ARE the free-thinking genius that you make yourself out to be, then write a paper on your &quot;mass of electro-charged plasma at the center of the galaxy, holding our galaxy together with it&#039;s own magnetic field&quot; theory. I&#039;d love to take a gander, as I&#039;m sure many who are actually in the &quot;field&quot; would.

Also, desipte your thrilling post, I still consider SirWilhelm a tool. &quot;See other competing theories&quot;? No, you didn&#039;t offer any. But I&#039;m open to one that makes as much or more sense than the current one. Maybe the next Einstien is right here, reading this blog. Maybe his name is SirWilhelm or mharratsc. Then again, maybe not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, first of all, NOT religious (unless I&#8217;m in a plane that is about to crash, then I may puss-out and start praying to any and all Gods!). And, obviously, I&#8217;m not a astronomer. Just a lowly (and juvenile!) blog reader with an intrest in cosmology.</p>
<p>That being said, mharratsc, if you truly ARE the free-thinking genius that you make yourself out to be, then write a paper on your &#8220;mass of electro-charged plasma at the center of the galaxy, holding our galaxy together with it&#8217;s own magnetic field&#8221; theory. I&#8217;d love to take a gander, as I&#8217;m sure many who are actually in the &#8220;field&#8221; would.</p>
<p>Also, desipte your thrilling post, I still consider SirWilhelm a tool. &#8220;See other competing theories&#8221;? No, you didn&#8217;t offer any. But I&#8217;m open to one that makes as much or more sense than the current one. Maybe the next Einstien is right here, reading this blog. Maybe his name is SirWilhelm or mharratsc. Then again, maybe not.</p>
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		<title>By: mharratsc</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33371</link>
		<dc:creator>mharratsc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-33371</guid>
		<description>FILTHpig must be an astronomer- I believe they take an entire semester of Pseudo-Skepticism as a pre-requisite.

&quot;YOU&#039;RE A TOOL IF YOU DOUBT THE ESTABLISHMENT!! 

Sorry, I can&#039;t help myself when I see really juvenile behavior in a forum like this.  Astronomy has left the Sciences and become a religion.  &quot;There can be no other models than gravity or YOU&#039;RE A TOOL!&quot;  You cannot falsify the Gravitational Model because we have FAITH!  Hallelujah!  We BELIEVE!!  *Church Lady dance*

The only thing seen at the center of the galaxy so far has been enormous amounts of energized plasmas and synchotron radiation, a stellar nursery that shouldn&#039;t exist according to the Gravitational accretion model, a galactic &quot;accretion disk&quot; that seems to be EXcreting, and filaments of plasma in arc and glow modes generating electromagnetic waves- ex. the Double Helix Nebula- Birkland currents entering glow mode in the denser plasma near the galactic center, right on the galactic polar axis.

 Any freshman Electrical Engineering  student can tell you that any semi-conductive plasma generating an electric and magnetic field is charged, and therefore has a current flowing through it.  Electromagnetic attraction is 27 orders of magnitude or so stronger than Gravitational Attraction.  You don&#039;t need &quot;the mass of 4 billion suns&quot; or whatever to hold a galaxy together if it&#039;s generating it&#039;s own electromagnetic field.

Elementary Physics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FILTHpig must be an astronomer- I believe they take an entire semester of Pseudo-Skepticism as a pre-requisite.</p>
<p>&#8220;YOU&#8217;RE A TOOL IF YOU DOUBT THE ESTABLISHMENT!! </p>
<p>Sorry, I can&#8217;t help myself when I see really juvenile behavior in a forum like this.  Astronomy has left the Sciences and become a religion.  &#8220;There can be no other models than gravity or YOU&#8217;RE A TOOL!&#8221;  You cannot falsify the Gravitational Model because we have FAITH!  Hallelujah!  We BELIEVE!!  *Church Lady dance*</p>
<p>The only thing seen at the center of the galaxy so far has been enormous amounts of energized plasmas and synchotron radiation, a stellar nursery that shouldn&#8217;t exist according to the Gravitational accretion model, a galactic &#8220;accretion disk&#8221; that seems to be EXcreting, and filaments of plasma in arc and glow modes generating electromagnetic waves- ex. the Double Helix Nebula- Birkland currents entering glow mode in the denser plasma near the galactic center, right on the galactic polar axis.</p>
<p> Any freshman Electrical Engineering  student can tell you that any semi-conductive plasma generating an electric and magnetic field is charged, and therefore has a current flowing through it.  Electromagnetic attraction is 27 orders of magnitude or so stronger than Gravitational Attraction.  You don&#8217;t need &#8220;the mass of 4 billion suns&#8221; or whatever to hold a galaxy together if it&#8217;s generating it&#8217;s own electromagnetic field.</p>
<p>Elementary Physics.</p>
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		<title>By: FILTHpig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33354</link>
		<dc:creator>FILTHpig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-33354</guid>
		<description>Does anyone &quot;see&quot; SirWilhelm? Just because he supposedly wrote the above doesn&#039;t mean he exists... that would be pure &quot;speculation&quot;! There may be other competing posts to the gibberish you see above, look for them IF YOU&#039;RE NOT A TOOL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone &#8220;see&#8221; SirWilhelm? Just because he supposedly wrote the above doesn&#8217;t mean he exists&#8230; that would be pure &#8220;speculation&#8221;! There may be other competing posts to the gibberish you see above, look for them IF YOU&#8217;RE NOT A TOOL.</p>
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		<title>By: SirWilhelm</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-33298</link>
		<dc:creator>SirWilhelm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-33298</guid>
		<description>Does anyone see a Black Hole in that pic? Has anyone ever seen a Black Hole? This is not science, this is speculation. Building a computer model is just trying to prove something exists with math, which doesn&#039;t really prove anything but that you can do math, and what computer can&#039;t? No one has found any Dark Matter or Dark Energy, all we are getting from Cosmology is a Dark Universe of fiction. They&#039;ve yet to find a Higgs-Bosun or a gravity wave, despite many experiments designed to find them. It seems you&#039;re all enjoying the science fiction like this they&#039;re feeding you, I hope so, cause it&#039;s costing you plenty, a lot more than you pay for Sci Fi or Fantasy at the book store. There are other competing theories to the cosmology you see here, look for them if you have an open mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone see a Black Hole in that pic? Has anyone ever seen a Black Hole? This is not science, this is speculation. Building a computer model is just trying to prove something exists with math, which doesn&#8217;t really prove anything but that you can do math, and what computer can&#8217;t? No one has found any Dark Matter or Dark Energy, all we are getting from Cosmology is a Dark Universe of fiction. They&#8217;ve yet to find a Higgs-Bosun or a gravity wave, despite many experiments designed to find them. It seems you&#8217;re all enjoying the science fiction like this they&#8217;re feeding you, I hope so, cause it&#8217;s costing you plenty, a lot more than you pay for Sci Fi or Fantasy at the book store. There are other competing theories to the cosmology you see here, look for them if you have an open mind.</p>
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		<title>By: FILTHpig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-32640</link>
		<dc:creator>FILTHpig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-32640</guid>
		<description>Does this quasar make me look fat?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does this quasar make me look fat?</p>
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		<title>By: QUASAR</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-32489</link>
		<dc:creator>QUASAR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-32489</guid>
		<description>6.4 billion times the mass of our own star! 

WOW!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>6.4 billion times the mass of our own star! </p>
<p>WOW!</p>
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		<title>By: Albert Bakker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-32488</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert Bakker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-32488</guid>
		<description>Well, it leaves one puzzled for a moment that the mass of a black hole near the center of a thoroughly studied galaxy seems to depend for about 23% on the number of floating points your computer can perform. 

A quick calculation points out that if the previous estimate was 6.4E9 solar masses and now 8.4E9  then that would mean if the previous estimate was calculated on a 10E9 floating points operating dual core laptop the Lonestar 5840 core - mass inducing calculation device produces a whopping 6,42E25 kg per floating point.

One could grow terrified at the prospect of calculating black holes with quantum computers. We might be crushed instantaneously a millisecond or so before [ENTER] says click.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it leaves one puzzled for a moment that the mass of a black hole near the center of a thoroughly studied galaxy seems to depend for about 23% on the number of floating points your computer can perform. </p>
<p>A quick calculation points out that if the previous estimate was 6.4E9 solar masses and now 8.4E9  then that would mean if the previous estimate was calculated on a 10E9 floating points operating dual core laptop the Lonestar 5840 core &#8211; mass inducing calculation device produces a whopping 6,42E25 kg per floating point.</p>
<p>One could grow terrified at the prospect of calculating black holes with quantum computers. We might be crushed instantaneously a millisecond or so before [ENTER] says click.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-32484</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-32484</guid>
		<description>I really have some reservations.  Relying on a yet to be confirmed dark &quot;aether&quot; leaves more to be asked than can be answered.  It&#039;s just one wall after another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really have some reservations.  Relying on a yet to be confirmed dark &#8220;aether&#8221; leaves more to be asked than can be answered.  It&#8217;s just one wall after another.</p>
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		<title>By: Albert Bakker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-32440</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert Bakker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-32440</guid>
		<description>Does this have implications for other dark matter speculations if (x) many of this MACHO component are 100% off from previous guesstimates? And if so to what extent, I mean do I have to scratch &amp; scribble in some (fairly new) books now or what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does this have implications for other dark matter speculations if (x) many of this MACHO component are 100% off from previous guesstimates? And if so to what extent, I mean do I have to scratch &#038; scribble in some (fairly new) books now or what?</p>
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		<title>By: zach</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-32436</link>
		<dc:creator>zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-32436</guid>
		<description>You know how it is Nick, you&#039;re just a meager 6 billion solar masses when you graduate, but then you head off to school. One meal-plan and terrible dining hall food later, bang, 10 billion solar masses and your cutting extra belt notches. Poor M87.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know how it is Nick, you&#8217;re just a meager 6 billion solar masses when you graduate, but then you head off to school. One meal-plan and terrible dining hall food later, bang, 10 billion solar masses and your cutting extra belt notches. Poor M87.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/comment-page-1/#comment-32429</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/09/we-knew-black-holes-were-massive-now-double-that/#comment-32429</guid>
		<description>M87 needs to stop the late night brownie baking or maybe lay off the wacky tobaccy and trips to the convenience store.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M87 needs to stop the late night brownie baking or maybe lay off the wacky tobaccy and trips to the convenience store.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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