In "Operation Blue Rage," Sea Shepherd Activists Will Target Tuna Poachers

By Eliza Strickland | May 5, 2010 2:24 pm

sea-shepherd-smallThe media-savvy eco-pirates of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society have a new target in their sights: commercial fishing boats that illegally scoop endangered bluefin tuna out of the sea.

The Sea Shepherd activists have become famous for harassing Japanese whaling ships; a reality TV show about their exploits documented the many tricks the activists used to slow down the whalers, including shooting stink bombs onto their ships and attempting to disable their propellers. With their new project, dubbed Operation Blue Rage, the activists hope to bring the same level of attention to the fight to save endangered tuna.

Stocks of bluefin tuna have fallen by roughly 85% since the industrial fishing era began…. Yet despite quotas that are arguably too high to begin with, quotas are still being ignored in many places [Ecopolitology].

Conservationists suffered a major setback this spring, when an international meeting failed to pass new protections for the bluefin tuna, which is highly valued by sushi chefs. In light of this political inaction, Sea Shepherd decided to act. Its flagship, the Steve Irwin, is now en route to the Mediterranean to begin a harassment campaign against ships that are illegally pulling the endangered fish from the sea.

Steve Irwin First Officer Locky Maclean acknowledges that it will be somewhat difficult to find tuna poachers among those fishing boats that comply with the lax laws, but says there are a few tricks the activists can use.

First, the legal season for bluefin tuna is just 30-days. “Where we come into play, where we can operate and enforce, is on vessels fishing outside that season, after the June 15th cutoff or before the May 15th start date. If we come across vessels purse seining outside of that time frame…we’re in a position to enforce [the law].” Second, there is the ICCAT list of vessels, “enables us to know the names of the vessels which cannot fish in that area” [Treehugger].

Related Content:
80beats: Is the Anti-Whaling Activist Who Boarded a Japanese Whaling Ship a Pirate?
80beats: Videos Show Collision Between Japanese Whaling Ship & Protesters
80beats: Bluefin Tuna Is Still on the Menu: Trade Ban Fails at International Summit
80beats: Scientists Say Ban Atlantic Bluefin Tuna Trade–and Sushi Chefs Shudder

Image: Wikimedia

CATEGORIZED UNDER: Living World
  • David

    But not all conservationists support their vigilante and piratical tactics.

    If the fishermen tried to foul their boats and toss gas grenades at them, they would be on the radio calling for the coast guard and navy.

    Maybe they will ram another vessel again. (Wasn’t that a lovely video?)

  • Godot339

    Since the SSCS and watson are not law enforcement of any kind , just how are they going to determine between poachers and legitimate fishermen?
    Those stink bombs are Butyric acid, its found in rotten butter. Butyric acid is TOXIC, and highly flammable! It does stink, but it isn’t rotten butter!
    Why is watson taking that scow all the way to the med, when the Australians catch as much or more tuna then the hard working people in the med?
    Is watson going to lounge on the beaches of southern France while the volunteer crew of the Steve Irwin take all the risks and the fall , like Peter “Buffoon” Bathune?

  • thunnus

    iccat and fishing nations of the Med have done nothing but drive these stocks into dire straits. as a tuna fisherman mindful of the health of our stocks i am thankful for these efforts.

  • David

    thunnus:

    I also appreciate their goals. I just do not agree with their tactics. The ends do not justify the means.

  • http://www.SeaShepherd.org Captain Paul Watson

    I find it amazing that people who do nothing to address these problems always seem to find the time to be scathing in their criticism of people who do. Those who do – do and those who do nothing for the planet or society – post blogs full of misinformation, slanderous accusations and hateful rhetoric.

    Sea Shepherd will have legal authority with this campaign and we have been working closely with representatives of the French government and with Prince Albert of Monaco. Sea Shepherd will work within the guidelines of the U.N. World Charter for Nature to enforce against violations of international conservation law.

    Why is Sea Shepherd in the Med? Because Operation Blue Rage is a campaign organizaged by Sea Shepherd Europe to address a serious European issue. The accusation that we should be in Australia is irrelevant. Why would the Europeans fund an campaign to protect tuna off Australia instead of addressing the problem off their own shores first? Bluefin tuna is highly endangered in the Med. Every year the fishermen have been taking over four times the legal quota. The rules are enforceable and the intent of Sea Shepherd is to enforce them. The Australian tuna fishery is legal and enforced. They caught the Japanese taking over the quota a few years ago but Australian fishing operations are legal. Sea Shepherd does not oppose legal fishing operations. Sea Shepherd is an anti-poaching organization, not a protest organization.

    The writer of the above nonsense knows nothing about Sea Shepherd operations. I will command the campaign from the bridge of the Steve Irwin and not from a beach in Southern France. Buytric acid is not toxic or dangerous – it just smells really bad.

    I think this quote from Teddy Roosevelt sums up these trolls

    “It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.”

  • David

    Captain Paul Watson:

    Enthusiasm does not trump international law. If you are going to follow legal means, I applaud you. If you use the tactics that were evidenced when you rammed the Shonan Maru, I believe you should be treated as a criminal.

    Do not bother trying to tell me that I should not believe my own eyes from what I saw in the video. The wash coming off the Ady Gil was not from anything but you driving it into the Shonan Maru.

    Intentionally putting both ships in danger is against international law. Please tell me how the acts that you performed in that incident were in accordance with Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972 (COLREGs).

  • Godot339

    More spin from one of the poorest lairs around.

    Butyric acid IS TOXIC, can cause blindness, is toxic to Marine life. look it up! Better yet have the people you lie to look up the truth !

    Then they should do an in depth search for your documentation that you are a “CAPTAIN ” Ms watson! You gave yourself that title, you take advantage of a loop hole in the maritime regs, they allows none license personnel to command a yacht.

    Are you going to take a side trip up to Norway there watson? Your still Persona Non Grata up there ! Remember spending 81 days in a Norwegian prison for intentionally ramming a Norwegian Coast Guard Ship.

    Sort of puts to lie your claim of never have been convicted of criminal acts.

    “Sea Shepherd does not oppose legal fishing operations.” Really? And how will you determined who’s legal and who is not? From what I have seen of your exploits in the southern ocean. You only consider what you want and ignore the rest.

    I am not a troll, just a knowledgeable person that is stating facts, and not dodging questions. Or believing you deserve the same treatment as the famous people you continually quote.

    No , I am an American, I have no tie’s what so ever to any Japanese organization!

    I find it amazing that people who do nothing to address these problems always seem to find the time to be scathing in their criticism of people who do.

    And you hate to read comments like this, you cant take criticism.

    Tony says hi, You know Tony, AKA Propaganda buster on You tube.

    What do you do ? Let others take the risks, and they take the fall, Pete Buffoon is a good example!

    “post blogs full of misinformation, slanderous accusations and hateful rhetoric. ” Funny how you describe yourself with that little statement.

    Your a fraud! Just a little research blows great gaping holes in all your arguments.

  • David

    “Buytric acid is not toxic or dangerous – it just smells really bad.”

    From the MSDS Information for Buytric Acid:

    The substance is toxic to lungs, the nervous system, mucous membranes.

    For the full information:

    http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Butyric_acid-9923216

  • Pete

    Paul W asks, “Why would the Europeans fund an campaign to protect tuna off Australia instead of addressing the problem off their own shores first?’

    For the same reason Sea Shepherd Europe helps fund the Southern Ocean campaign to protect non endangered whales in waters far away from their own backyard. For the same reason they fund projects in the Galopagos far away from their own backyard. The various branches of Sea Shepherd fund what you tell them to fund. The Steve Irwin goes where you direct it to go. The crews do what you tell them to do (off camera, off course). The planning, tactics and strategy are yours, Paul. When that organization becomes a democracy, you’ll be sure to let us know. Until then, Sea Shepherd is you, Paul.

    You seriously expect anyone to believe that sovereign nations have empowered you to be their enforcement agent? They have lacked the interest or political will to enforce fishing regulations for years and suddenly they are going to abdicate their authority to you? These are European nation states, not some impoverished island government that lacks resources to police their own waters. Usually such an unusual cooperative arrangement is heralded by all sorts of press releases and news conferences; it would at least have made an honorable mention in the SS news and commentary.

    I’m sorry, but Roosevelt was wrong. The man who who errs and comes up short again and again, but in the end fails as you do, is nothing more than a failure. There is nothing noble in coming up short again, and again, and again, and… That man is a squanderer of his donor’s money, he is a waster of his devoted crew’s time and effort, he is a failure.

  • Godot339

    Thank You David.

    I feel watson will show his true colors again, and ether doge answering the questions, or refuse to answer.

    Oh by the way watson, I have done quite a bit for people , animals and the environment, I just don’t go out of my way to seek fame. I believe the term is “Unsung Hero!”

  • David

    Godot339:

    Maybe they should get a captain that can maneuver better next time. The Ady Gill did come up a bit “shorter” in that last encounter.

    Well, at least with they way they are operating, they will run out of ships pretty soon.

  • JC

    Best of wishes to all the Steve Irwin crew. You inspire people all over the world. Any online recommendation for a more objective description of what exactly Butyric acid is?

  • http://www.SeaShepherd.org Captain Paul Watson

    More trolling blogs containing misinformation and hateful comments. Posting here is like poking a hornets nest – all the angry little bugs swarm out all irritated and hostile. But it can be fun sometimes and it is expected. Who the hell is Tony the propaganda buster? Never heard of him. The Southern Ocean campaign is funded primarily by Australian and New Zealanders BTW not by the Europeans. Unsung heroes are unsung usually because they are heroes in their own mind in most cases, I suspect Godot is one of them. Ecuador has indeed empowered us to bust poachers and we have. A flurry of haphazard questions presented crudely and rudely but I have time to answer a few. Got a standing ovation from the American Business Council today where I did a presentation with Sir Richard Branson. The audience seemed to like my presentation as do a great many others but of course you can’t please everyone so for those who disagree with what Sea Shepherd does – well you’re certainly free to do so and we are free to continue to intervene against illegal whaling and fishing operations. I am a fully qualified master mariner and if I was not, I would not be allowed to command my ships as Captain. I suspect these are the same people that believe President Obama does not have a valid U.S. birth certificate. Pete says President Roosevelt was wrong which means of course that Pete must be right hmmm let me see who would I trust, Pete or Teddy, well I think I’ll go with Teddy. By the way I am not wanted in Norway and I’ve been back there a few times. There are no warrants out for my arrest. Hmm I must be an agent of the illuminati or ohh yesss what did one blogger call me – a trained KGB assassin. It’s really all great fun. I don’t hate criticisms, in fact I find most of the criticisms to be simply amusing. I command three ships, I have an international organization, I have a hit television show going into it’s third season, I have published books and a dozen films that I have worked on including Oceans and the Academy award winning “The Cove”. I have a happy family life and the satisfaction of having saved 528 whales this last season soooooo all this trivial criticism coming from fake named avatars trolling comment sites and facebook pages is simply amusing. And by the way David, we are not running short on ships, we are about to secure another one. Our navy is growing, our membership is growing, our revenue base is growing and our effectiveness is growing – all good so keep trolling and rambling on with silly commentaries because I happen to think that criticisms are reflective of the fact that we are pissing the right people off and you guys seem really pissed off and well that makes me smile.

  • David

    JC:

    The Material Safety Data Sheet for the material is the full disclosure required by law. It is provided by the manufacturer of the product and has serious legal consequences if falsified.

    The link is on post #8.

    Just out of curiosity….

    Do you think that Sea Shepherds methods are justified? Not their goals. Their methods.

    How far do you think that they should go? Do you think that they should start shooting at the poachers? Blow up their ships? Where do you draw the line between activism and aggressive acts of violence?

    Personally, I believe that they cross the line of civilized behavior, but I honestly would like to hear your opinion.

  • David

    Captain Paul Watson:

    I have no issue with your goals. It doesn’t matter how many people or television shows, books, movies you have produced or how many people listen to your presentations. I would counter that David Koresh and Jim Jones were popular as well. The fact is, if you break the law as an act of civil disobedience, I can understand that. I can even see putting your own life on the line to defend your beliefs.

    I do not believe that you have the right to put others lives in danger by your actions. I don’t believe that you have the right to attack unarmed people. I don’t think you have the right to put the well intentioned people who want to save whales or anything else at risk. You may say that they are there voluntarily but Jim Jones’ followers were there voluntarily as well.

    I stand by my belief that you go too far.

  • Pete

    For someone who doesn’t care what people think, you sure spend a lot of time lately responding to them. Trying to do some damage control? Btw, that was a lame post on FOJLTWA, those fools are only guilty of parroting the anti-Japanese bile they hear from you.

    Paul says: “The Southern Ocean campaign is funded primarily by Australian and New Zealanders”
    That’s not what it says on your US tax returns.

    Paul says: ” Ecuador has indeed empowered us to bust poachers”
    To quote your Mr. Roosevelt, Bully for you, bully! Problem is that Ecuador is not in the Mediterranean, it is not France, It is not Monaco. These happen to be the two countries you mentioned as working closely with; whatever that means. Who has empowered you in the Mediterranean? Just the U.N.?

    No one doubts that you know how to drive a ship or that you are in command of ships. That does not give you credentials, you have no papers, you have no rating beyond your Coast Guard and Merchant service all those years back. The rules don’t apply to you so you can’t be bothered with the hassle of becoming properly credentialed. Register as a yacht, avoid maintaining your ships so that Lloyd’s withdraws classification. You can just dump the hulks or have them siezed when they are of no use to you. You can call yourself Captain if you wish. Why stop there, call yourself Admiral.

  • Jim

    Pete, I think you are wasting your time -
    Paul Watson’s commentaries are usually far more elegant than these. Like him or not, he is a very talented orator/writer, and doesn’t use teen-style writing like “sooooo” and a serious lack of commas in appropriate parts of sentences. The activity you see under “Captain Paul Watson” is probably a group of supporters using the same name. Simply tacking on a quote from Teddy Roosevelt doesn’t make him/her the real Paul Watson. The real Paul Watson has repeatedly stated that he doesn’t give two ***** about what other people think. Knowing that, I seriously doubt that he would even waste his time trying to change your point of view. I’m calling shenanigans on this.

    It will be interesting to see what becomes of this little campaign. The Mediterranean is not as desolate as Antarctica, and they better hope they don’t attack the wrong boat by mistake. The countries over there are not ultra formal and naturally polite as the Japanese. Try to “collide” with a Libyan, a Turk, or even a Greek fisherman and we will see if they simply file a protest….

  • LAgal

    I have been following this issue for awhile and will not comment on Sea Shepherd. I do though take issue with Paul Watson’s comments re “unsung heros.” There are a million scientists, researchers, volunteers in 3rd world countries feeding the starving, teachers in inner city schools, you name it who are doing amazing things and they are heros to many, especially those who they help (that includes bluefin tuna, whales and dolphins – yes, there are many others making efforts to save these species but maybe don’t seek the glory of a tv show or have or want to make the time to make speeches or write books or even the means as they don’t have donor money flowing in). And many put their lives on the line to do the work they do. To say that because they are unsung, they are not heros is offensive and disingenuous. I don’t know the names of most of your crew but if you consider yourself a hero, they are no less so even though their names remain unknown to me. And moreover, unsung heros are often those who do not see themselves as heros but as those doing work they believe in and it is the work that defines them, not the fame.

    Also, I’m not sure why you keep discussing Richard Branson. Were there other speakers on this panel? Yes, there were and many of them have done incredible things but I guess because they are unknown to us, then they are less heros (or less courageous) than yourself and Branson?

    I have friends who have done and will be going on your campaigns so I come from a neutral place but I do take issue with many of your comments and how they may impact/influence others. A true “hero” would never put down others but would be gracious and would be the one to give credit where credit is due.

  • m

    Paul Watson is nothing but a pompous bully. Hiding behind TR’s quote gives him a “righteous feeling”.

    He’s no better than a jihadist.

    If he really wanted to do soemthing, he could run for office and gain legitimate authority to act.

    But that would require real courage….

  • Godot339

    I find this an interesting statement that makes me suspect the person making these statements is a sock puppet.
    Quote, “There are no warrants out for my arrest.” The Japanese arrest warrant through INTERPOL does not count?

    It looks like a moderately well done cut and paste.

  • AnimuX

    Well there had to be a destination for the lovely pro-whalers whose constant vitriol and 24×7×365 public campaign against Sea Shepherd led to the demise of at least one open forum already.

    Here we find them continuing where they left off, gleefully slinging about their one-sided slanderous accusations based on opinions in concert with industry propaganda. They’re working hard to shut down an activist organization that’s operated for 30 years against environmentally destructive industries and poachers.

    Their anti-activist mission is the same whether they comment on a campaign against IUU (Illegal, Unreported and Unregulated) fishing of Blue Fin Tuna with its known ecological and economic consequences OR an ongoing campaign against the commercial whaling industry with its long history of subversion of internationally established conservation efforts.

    Just as the CCF constantly assaults the Humane Society these characters represent a concerted effort to demonize and marginalize any and all aspects of an environmental movement.

    Despite the fact that Sea Shepherd has not been responsible for a single death in over 30 years of operation they continue to make the terrorist comparison invoking an emotional reaction to real murderous groups like Al Qaida.

    Despite the fact that since 1931, one government after another in Japan has violated and subverted international regulations regarding whaling they insist Sea Shepherd is only disrupting Japanese whaling because of racist motivations and cash donations.

    Never mind the fact that Japan has historically violated size limits, species limits, sanctuary boundaries, seasonal limits, all manner of quotas and even facilitated “pirate whaling” operations all over the world. (that’s using front companies with foreign labor to kill whales for “traditional” purposes like smuggling unreported whale meat to Japanese markets)

    Never mind the fact that Sea Shepherd has opposed whaling, bottom trawling, long lining, shark fining, seal skinning all over the world and continues to assist the law enforcement entities responsible for protecting the Galapagos from poaching.

    Never mind the fact that Sea Shepherd has received high ratings as a charity that puts most of its donations into its operations rather than overhead.

    The rhetoric is maddening in the attempt to make every situation look like a Joseph McCarthy campaign against evil. Stink bombs are spoken of as if they’re WMDs. (Never mind that Sea Shepherd activists handle this material regularly and have not been burned, disfigured, blinded, poisoned by any of it.) Ship collisions are called attempts to murder regardless of any amount of actual damage (again referring to 30 years of operation with no resulting deaths).

    Yet when sealers physically strike at activists with a haikpik, or when whalers ram and sink a boat full of activists these so-called opponents of violence wildly approve. They’re here to erode support for Sea Shepherd in favor of their own ideology. Whether they’re employed to this end or simply sympathetic, they represent the industries that seek to eliminate public resistance to environmentally destructive business endeavors.

    Blue Fin Tuna probably won’t be the last species to fall victim to the destructive results of industrial greed. Sea Shepherd and other conservation-minded organizations simply don’t have the power to stop it. But I’m glad they’re bold enough to try.

  • Godot339

    AH animux, it’s so nice to read your pointless rants again. You made little sense on the AP forums and it looks like you have not been able to broaden your mind since then.
    You still refuse to see the truth. And hide with your compatriots on FOJLTWA

    to the others , don’t reply to animux, he is a troll. he just annoys.

  • AnimuX

    The point is to comment on your little negative PR campaign against Sea Shepherd and the fact that it is ongoing and spans many forums with many exaggerations and slanderous accusations.

    FOJLTWA with its anti-whaling Facebook membership of over 470,000 is doing just fine, by the way.

  • David

    AnimuX:

    “They’re here to erode support for Sea Shepherd in favor of their own ideology.”

    I do agree with you on that point. It would make me happy to see Sea Shepard go away. I applaud the demise of the forum that gave this organization a place to continue the violence that they promote. I would like it if people did not contribute to an organization that uses illegal methods.

    The fact that nobody has been killed in their operations is mainly due to luck. If you do not think that someone driving a multi-ton vehicle at another vehicle is not a violent act that can kill, I suggest that you take a basic physics class and educate yourself.

    Just calling the butyric acid a “stink bomb” is trying to hide the real effects that are documented. I do not believe you would be so dismissive if these attacks were directed to you or your family. The police at Kent State just used rubber bullets. Was that OK? The fact that it has not harmed the people launching the attacks is about as meaningless as saying that people that delivered the bomb on Hiroshima were not harmed by the radiation so it must be safe when it detonates. Even if it were water balloons, assault is assault.

    You keep ranting about what the Japanese are doing that is illegal. No argument there. There are diplomatic means to correct this. That it is not happening fast enough to suit you is not really relevant.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right.

  • Mikey G

    Captain Paul:
    I am on your side and applaud your efforts. I love the fact that you guys aren’t p#$$ies and go out and get the job done. Conservationists by and large are a bunch of whimp’s who would rather sit in meetings about meetings and engage in endless rhetoric and a woe is me attitude about the abuses of our environment. You guys get up off your butts and march to the front lines and fight against these environmental terrorists. In order to battle guerrillas, you gotta fight fire with fire and you do so. These people who deride you for your tactics have never been punched in the mouth in their whole lives, they have no idea that in order to win the fight, you gotta punch back…Harder!
    Godspeed.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: The fact that nobody has been killed in their operations is mainly due to luck. If you do not think that someone driving a multi-ton vehicle at another vehicle is not a violent act that can kill, I suggest that you take a basic physics class and educate yourself.
    ———————————————
    AnimuX Says: As an example of how this is an exaggeration I give you the very real “Cod Wars” where the HMS Falmouth purposely T-boned an Icelandic ship TWICE at speeds of over 20 knots and failed to sink her. The simple fact is that large steel ships to not simply explode if they happen to touch out in the open ocean. There is a lot more to it.
    ———————————————
    David Says: Just calling the butyric acid a “stink bomb” is trying to hide the real effects that are documented. I do not believe you would be so dismissive if these attacks were directed to you or your family. The police at Kent State just used rubber bullets. Was that OK? The fact that it has not harmed the people launching the attacks is about as meaningless as saying that people that delivered the bomb on Hiroshima were not harmed by the radiation so it must be safe when it detonates. Even if it were water balloons, assault is assault.
    ———————————————
    AnimuX Says: And you’re right back to the exaggeration intended to invoke an emotional response by comparing “stink bombs” to police shooting students and nuclear war.

    Sea Shepherd activists have gotten the contents of the “stink bombs” on themselves, including on their clothes, skin and in their eyes and none of them have been burned, disfigured, poisoned or blinded.

    Maybe you’d be happier if they used “skunk spray” instead. ;-)
    ——————————————–
    David Says: “You keep ranting about what the Japanese are doing that is illegal. No argument there. There are diplomatic means to correct this. That it is not happening fast enough to suit you is not really relevant.”
    ——————————————–
    AnimuX Says: You’re right. 80 years of violation and subversion of internationally established whaling regulations (you know diplomacy) doesn’t suit me. It doesn’t suit the International Whaling Commission either which has repeatedly issued resolutions against Japan’s whaling operations, established a moratorium on commercial whaling and a whale sanctuary in the southern ocean. All “diplomatic efforts” that Japan has refused to honor.

    Now Tuna fishermen who also don’t follow the internationally established rules might also be confronted by a Sea Shepherd activist ship. -Good-

  • David

    AnimuX Says: As an example of how this is an exaggeration I give you the very real “Cod Wars” where the HMS Falmouth purposely T-boned an Icelandic ship TWICE at speeds of over 20 knots and failed to sink her. The simple fact is that large steel ships to not simply explode if they happen to touch out in the open ocean. There is a lot more to it.

    David Says: How come you didn’t mention the Ady Gil that was lost through one glancing blow? Regardless of how “well intended and harmless” you think it is, ramming ships and creating a a potential for collision is against international law.

    AnimuX Says: And you’re right back to the exaggeration intended to invoke an emotional response by comparing “stink bombs” to police shooting students and nuclear war.

    David Says: No, I am just reflecting the same logic you presented. Assault is assault. It doesn’t matter what you are throwing at them.

    I maintain that two wrongs do not make a right.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: How come you didn’t mention the Ady Gil that was lost through one glancing blow? Regardless of how “well intended and harmless” you think it is, ramming ships and creating a a potential for collision is against international law.
    —————————————–
    AnimuX Says: Ady Gil was not a giant steel ship. It was a small carbon fiber speed boat. The collision between the Shonan Maru 2 and the Ady gil was like an idling motorcycle being run over by a tank. Not a fair comparison to the collisions between large ships like the Steve Irwin and one of the Yushin Maru harpoon ships of similar size and construction. But then this isn’t about being fair, it’s about the negative PR campaign being waged against Sea Shepherd.
    —————————————–
    David Says: Assault is assault. It doesn’t matter what you are throwing at them.
    —————————————–
    AnimuX Says: Comparing stink bombs to nuclear attack, as you’ve already done in this thread, is not an “assault is assault” argument. So don’t try to change your tune now that your true intent has been called out.

    Also, Sea Shepherd activists throw stink bombs at a boat, not directly at people with the intent to hit them. The throwers are given instructions to specifically avoid hitting people. Throwing stink bombs at a boat is not assault.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: I maintain that two wrongs do not make a right.
    ———————————————
    AnimuX Says: Like slicing the tires (vandalism) of a bank robber’s get-away car? Or physically tackling (assault) a thief to prevent his escape?

    Sea Shepherd is not randomly going after Japanese whalers or Blue Fin Tuna poachers. Internationally established regulations are being violated and subverted and Sea Shepherd activists are only attempting to enforce compliance to those regulations.

  • m

    MikeyG -> you are a coward and you are the reason for the term “enviro-nazi”.

    why dont you run for office? get some LEGITIMATE authority to make changes. real…long term changes. if you are so sure you are right, then you shouldnt have a problem getting elected, right?

    *rolls eyes*

    same goes for you AnimuX.

    but i doubt either of you will…you are both too afraid and too gutless to put your convictions to the test.

  • Godot339

    Animux you make it to easy!
    First and I quote “exaggerations and slanderous accusations.”

    Just what is slanderous about telling the truth, and none of that TRUTH is manufactured by what you call the “pro-whalers.” Just a little research and thinking is required.

    Watson gave himself the “TITLE” of “CAPTAIN” There is no documentation that he has taken or passed required qualification and licensing procedures.

    watson HAS been convicted of criminal acts, and done time in a Norwegian prison for it . He now has an international warrant out for his arrest! Issued buy the Japanese Coast Guard through INTERPOL!

    watson has ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE ANY UNITED NATIONS CHARTER!

    Butyric acid is toxic, can cause blindness and death. the repeated claims by watson , Steve Roest, you and others do not hold up.

    Watson purchases commercial grade Butyric acid. Containers are liberally labeled with caution and warning stickers, and instruction on how to handle.
    Since Butyric acid emits a noxious order the only way to handle this substance is to wear , A face shield, protective goggles, a respirator with charcoal filters, Acid resistant apron and gloves.
    Your claim that they got this material on their skin let alone in their eyes, is ludicrous.

    The problem all these argument and facts have been put to you many times before . You refuse to acknowledge reality.

    By the way animux, you and your mates might want to tell your friends at FOJLTWA That they are now on an international watch list for supporting and encouraging cyber terrorism.

  • JC

    My two cents. We seem to be very willing to use non-lethal, yet aggressive, deterrent means to address conflicts ranging from carnivore predation on cattle, activists’ manifestations on the streets, petty offenses (such as robbery) and the list goes on. Yet when a group of courageous people uses it to stop those plundering humanity’s resources, the fact sparks a huge discussion. After reading all your posts and the Material Safety Data Sheet I still wish all the Sea Shepherd’s best of lucks and I still think they inspire people all over the world. I would hope those using this forum would avoid personal attacks and name-calling. It is the actions and the data we should be commenting. On the Butyric acid toxicity it seems that most warnings are for prolonged or excessive exposure. Aggressive, yes. Lethal, not so much. Pepper spray would appear to be just as hazardous and it is used regularly with wildlife and law-breakers.

  • Mikey G

    MONEY!!!!!!!!!

  • AnimuX

    m Says: “get some LEGITIMATE authority to make changes. ”
    ———————————-
    AnimuX Says: The legitimate authority, the International Whaling Commission, has established regulations including a moratorium on commercial whaling, the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary and has repeatedly issued resolutions against Japan’s whaling operations. Unfortunately, the government of Japan does not honor its international obligations. Instead Japan continues to facilitate whaling and subvert IWC regulations and other international conservation efforts in the process.

    International regulatory bodies have also established regulations regarding Blue Fin Tuna. Some fishermen will not honor their obligation to work within these internationally established restrictions. Hopefully, Sea Shepherd will expose and thwart IUU (Illegal, Unreported and Unregulated) tuna fishing in the Mediterranean.
    ———————————-
    m Says: “you are a coward and you are the reason for the term “enviro-nazi”…. you are both too afraid and too gutless to put your convictions to the test.”
    ———————————-
    AnimuX Says: Here we can see yet another emotional outburst in the form of a personal attack from one anonymous internet personality to another. I can only assume “m” measures his courage in these sorts of childish remarks.

  • AnimuX

    Godot339 Says: “Watson gave himself the “TITLE” of “CAPTAIN” There is no documentation that he has taken or passed required qualification and licensing procedures.”
    ——————————-
    AnimuX Says: It’s not something I’ve researched but exactly what documentation do you have that proves he isn’t? Not that it matters. It’s just an irrelevant statement made in the ongoing character assassination campaign against Sea Shepherd and Paul Watson.
    ——————————-
    Godot339 Says: “He now has an international warrant out for his arrest! Issued buy the Japanese Coast Guard through INTERPOL!”
    ——————————-
    AnimuX Says: Just as the USSR issued warrants for defectors and China considers the Dalai Lama a “terrorist”? I’m afraid it’s nothing more than political persecution. It’s no secret that Japan wants to make a political prisoner out of Paul Watson as it has two of its own citizens who, while working for Greenpeace, attempted to expose illegal activities carried out by whalers within Japan. The jailing and trial of the “Tokyo Two” has been called a violation of basic human rights after international examination.
    ——————————-
    Godot339 Says: “Butyric acid is toxic, can cause blindness and death. the repeated claims by watson , Steve Roest, you and others do not hold up.”
    ——————————-
    AnimuX Says: This is the most common exaggeration used in the negative campaign against Sea Shepherd. First of all these claims are made with absolutely no physical evidence. Not one independent analysis of an actual sample of the “stink bombs” has been done by anyone claiming they’re deadly. Nobody has been blinded or killed by any of the “butter bombs” as they’re called by Sea Shepherd. (Because the “smelly” chemical is found naturally in rotten butter. It’s also found naturally in the human digestive system and has many benign uses.) Basically, lab animal test results using high concentrations in controlled settings (such as flooding an enclosed space with Butyric Acid vapor for hours to show breathing irritation or dropping pure BA into the eyes of a rabbit) are brandished by critics who proclaim it is the same situation when a bottle of “unknown concentration” of this smelly liquid breaks on the deck of a ship in open air. One could make the same claims about a bottle of orange juice because it contains “citric acid” with the same fanatic mentality.
    ——————————-
    Godot339 Says: “By the way animux, you and your mates might want to tell your friends at FOJLTWA That they are now on an international watch list for supporting and encouraging cyber terrorism.”
    ——————————–
    AnimuX Says: I’ve not supported any form of terrorism at all. In fact, Sea Shepherd is registered as a charity in the United States. Paul Watson even gave a lecture to the FBI Academy in recent years.

    Also, FOJLTWA is nothing more than a Facebook group for people who are outraged over whaling. To my knowledge, the group itself is responsible for nothing more than angry commentary, raising awareness and signing petitions. All completely legal expressions of speech and protest. What’s not surprising is the same negative campaign against Sea Shepherd could so quickly turn on a large group of people (470,000 of them) doing nothing more than expressing their opinions in an open forum.

    Your empty threats hold absolutely no weight. Any such claims of “cyber terrorism” are equivalent to 911 phone calls making false claims about your neighbor because you don’t like the political bumper stickers on his car.

  • m

    AnimuX – you just won me a Coke! I knew if I called you to task you’d quiver and shake. I appreciate that – i was pretty thirsty.

    the true test of your convictions is taking real action and making real change.

    i guess you dont believe in your convictions as much as you say you do.

    nobody said it would be easy, Animux. the real fight never is.

    but i guess it is easier to make excuses and turn to violence.

    *sigh*

  • Godot339

    And the Japanese have legal permission to do research in the southern ocean! As been stated many times before animux, the useable portions of the whale are not allowed to go to waste. Sold for profit, instead of being cut loose and left to rot.

    The Majority of nation do not recognize the so called whale sanctuary.

    International regulatory bodies have also established regulations regarding Blue Fin Tuna. Some fishermen will not honor their obligation to work within these internationally established restrictions.

    And The SSCS has the authority to enforce these regulations. Don’t think so!

    The Med isn’t the Southern Ocean, As GREENPEACE” learned recently. Fishermen will take steps to defend their livelihood! And what is left after they defend themselves will be turned over to the authorities of the appropriate countries.

    watson has said he will be carrying officials, but he had made such statements before. Pete Buffoon is paying for such misinformation.

  • Godot339

    Funny animux , since I don’t know your real name , or want to. Your comments on FOJ are on record.
    What threat? I just made a comment.

  • AnimuX

    m Says: “I knew if I called you to task you’d quiver and shake.”
    ————————
    AnimuX Says: Pointing out the fact that you’d rather engage in personal attacks than discuss an issue is neither quivering nor shaking. It merely exposes your disposition here which is to talk smack and not to comment on anything of significance. However, I will say it’s fairly easy to get pro-whalers and anti-Sea Shepherd antagonists to attack me. Apparently they don’t know how to deal with opposing views in an adult manner. :)
    ————————
    Godot339 Says: “What threat? I just made a comment.”
    ————————
    AnimuX Says: Your earlier “threat” was that “they are now on an international watch list for supporting and encouraging cyber terrorism”, implying they’d better shut up or be harassed or arrested or charged despite the fact that they’re participating in legal speech and protest against whaling. You know what you wrote and the intent of the statement. :)
    ————————
    Godot339 Says: “The Majority of nation do not recognize the so called whale sanctuary.”
    ————————
    AnimuX Says: And this is where the breakdown in the pro-whaling campaign begins. At some point the antagonists settle on the idea that it really doesn’t matter what Japan does. From the perspective of their campaign, if the international community does not (or will not) file suit against Japan in an international court to enforce internationally established regulations (and win) then Japan is essentially free of all obligations and restrictions.

    And so they willfully discount decades of violation and subversion of international whaling regulations carried out by various governments of Japan. This includes size limits, species protections, sanctuary boundaries, seasonal limits, all manner of quotas and even facilitating “pirate whaling” (that’s front companies with foreign labor for the “traditional” purpose of smuggling unreported whale meat to Japanese markets) all over the world.

    Just so everyone is clear, the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary was established by the International Whaling Commission in 1994.

    http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/sanctuaries.htm

  • AnimuX

    Godot339 Says: “The Med isn’t the Southern Ocean, As GREENPEACE” learned recently. Fishermen will take steps to defend their livelihood!”
    ———————————
    AnimuX Says: What you fail to realize is that Sea Shepherd will be in “The Med” to thwart IUU (Illegal, Unreported and Unregulated) fishing. In other words, they’ll be after criminals and poachers according to international regulations.

    Any “fisherman” who is violating international regulations would not be defending a livelihood. He’d be defending a criminal enterprise.

    As usual, the negative campaign against Sea Shepherd is perfectly willing to embrace and praise the criminal acts of others as long as the criminals also oppose Sea Shepherd.

  • David

    AnimuX:

    Vigilante tactics are not the acts of civilized people.

    I have not waffled on any point and you just deflecting is not sufficient. I clearly stated that your assertion of the people launching these “stink bombs” have not been harmed by it is as silly as saying that the people who launched the bomb against Hiroshima were not harmed by it either. It is called hyperbole to point out the ridiculous nature of your argument.

    Saying that the stink bombs being naturally occurring and just stinky is like comparing the hydrogen sulfide in a rotten egg to gassing someone. There are many naturally occurring substances that at natural concentrations are a minor annoyance. When you are dealing with refined and concentrated materials, the results are different.

    Oh, we are just launching it at the ship and not the people. Big deal. You are launching it into the restricted space of a ship at sea where they cannot just step away from it.

    The crashing of ships together is not just big bumper cars that just bounce away. The steel of ships like that will rip open. Exxon Valdez, Titanic are pretty good examples. I will not even mention the names ships that Seas Shepard has claimed to have sunk.

    You claim that they are doing something illegal to promote some better good. It is not your place. You have no authority other than your own hubris. The only way that your type can maintain itself is by sucking in new members like some cult. Some of us are not as impressionable. The way terrorist organizations indoctrinate people to go on suicide attacks is much the same. Jim Jones convincing his followers to suicide is also much the same.

    The only reason I even bother responding is so that people can see the lunatic mentality that this organization and its supporters present. The more you make claims that can be checked and proven false by someone merely clicking on their browser and searching, the more you seal your fate. Keep on, you are doing fine. The poorly constructed arguments only make it better.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Vigilante tactics are not the acts of civilized people.”
    ——————-
    AnimuX Says: Vigilantes take revenge and are known for attacking people (even if they are criminals). You are still looking for an emotional response through inaccurate comparisons. Sea Shepherd is not seeking violent revenge against individual people. Sea Shepherd is interfering with poaching and other industrial operations that violate and subvert international conservation efforts and regulations.
    ——————-
    David Says: “I clearly stated that your assertion of the people launching these “stink bombs” have not been harmed by it is as silly as saying that the people who launched the bomb against Hiroshima were not harmed by it either.”
    ——————-
    AnimuX Says: “And again you compare throwing stink bombs to waging nuclear war.”
    ——————-
    David Says: “Saying that the stink bombs being naturally occurring and just stinky is like comparing the hydrogen sulfide in a rotten egg to gassing someone. There are many naturally occurring substances that at natural concentrations are a minor annoyance. When you are dealing with refined and concentrated materials, the results are different. ”
    ——————-
    AnimuX Says: Yet, not one opponent of Sea Shepherd has produced a chemical analysis proving the contents of any stink bombs are actually super-dangerous concentrations of anything. Not one. That lack of physical evidence is sadly typical in that the negative campaign doesn’t require evidence because it’s based on ideological opposition to environmental activism.

    So the false claims that these stink bombs are actually deadly weapons (that haven’t killed anybody) continue.
    ——————-
    David Says: “Oh, we are just launching it at the ship and not the people. Big deal. You are launching it into the restricted space of a ship at sea where they cannot just step away from it.”
    ——————-
    AnimuX Says: Now this is the first fair statement you’ve made. One could make the argument that the glass bottles pose an inherent risk to the whalers.

    (Although, the whalers purposely work in rough seas with explosive materials and sharp objects on a daily basis making “glass” a negligible threat. In fact, judging by the whaling industry’s safety record of fires at sea and workers killed in industrial accidents the whalers might just be safer when they’re not busy whaling…)

    The delivery system isn’t perfect but it does drop the rotten butter smell on the deck which of course is the entire point. They make the desk smelly and therefore difficult to work on and possibly taint some of the whale meat. Though I still must refer to the fact that nobody has been killed or blinded by any of Sea Shepherd’s stink bombs.
    ——————-
    David Says: “The crashing of ships together is not just big bumper cars that just bounce away. The steel of ships like that will rip open. Exxon Valdez, Titanic are pretty good examples. I will not even mention the names ships that Seas Shepard has claimed to have sunk.”
    ——————-
    AnimuX Says: And how many Japanese ships have been ripped open and sunk in the Southern Ocean? Answer: None.

    Yet, the exaggerations continue. Now the Sea Shepherd collisions that have taken some paint off of Japanese whalers are being compared to momentous disasters like the Exxon Valdez and the Titanic wrecks. Apparently the U.S. Navy had it all wrong all of these years. If only they had a group of hardy activists with the navigational skills to ram and sink entire fleets. (sarcasm)
    ——————
    David Says: “You claim that they are doing something illegal to promote some better good. It is not your place. You have no authority other than your own hubris. The only way that your type can maintain itself is by sucking in new members like some cult. Some of us are not as impressionable. The way terrorist organizations indoctrinate people to go on suicide attacks is much the same. Jim Jones convincing his followers to suicide is also much the same.”
    ——————
    AnimuX Says: And right back to the irrational exaggerations and emotional invocation of “terrorism” but with religious “cults” thrown in as well.

    The simple fact of the matter is, Sea Shepherd would not exist as an anti-poaching organization if governments of Japan and other whaling nations honored their international obligations and adhered to regulations established by the IWC.

    The same can be said for the tuna fishermen who illegally catch tuna out of season or beyond their allotted quotas for individual gain. If instead, they all adhered to the regulations established by international agreements then they would not be part of the problem Sea Shepherd seeks to address.

    All of this negative campaigning is intended to demonize and marginalize activists who merely insist that “nations honor international agreements” and cease destroying the environment. It represents nothing more than ideological support for environmentally harmful industries.

  • Godot339

    Save your replies people!

    Most of what has been posted here by animux is cut and paste from ECORAZZI!

    same with the post from watson, some sock puppet is having fun.

  • David

    AnimuX:

    Just repeating the same nonsense does not make it true.

    It is simple. I believe from what I have personally seen in video, from what I have read from reputable news sources, and what Sea Shepherd has claimed as their “victories”, that Sea Shepherd *is* a terrorist organization and not *like* a terrorist organization.

    You will not convince me that their violent acts that I have seen in video with my own eyes are harmless or didn’t happen.

    You will not convince me that the years I spent in college learning chemistry is wrong.

    You will not convince me that my Hazmat training that I took which taught me how to read a MSDS is wrong.

    You will not convince me that Sea Shepherd’s breaking laws is any better or more noble than anyone else’s breaking the law.

    You can claim all you want that what they are doing is for good, much as suicide bombers believe that they are doing it for the greater good. It does not make it right.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Just repeating the same nonsense does not make it true.”
    ———————–
    AnimuX Says: Yet the negative campaign against Sea Shepherd continues to spout the same false allegations, wild exaggerations and slanderous condemnations time after tired time.
    ———————–
    David Says: “You will not convince me” “You will not convince me” “You will not convince me”
    ———————–
    AnimuX Says: As I’ve previously stated, there is an industry promoted (and sometimes financed), ideological campaign against environmental activism.

    In keeping with the theme of ideological fanaticism some will continue to compare environmental activists who have NEVER brutalized or killed anybody and NEVER held hostages for ransom…

    …to the most ruthless murderous terrorist organizations that have killed thousands of innocent people, tortured and taken hostages for money and political influence.

    The negative campaign is designed to demonize and marginalize an environmental movement and specifically the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society – An ocean conservation and anti-poaching organization that has not killed a single human being in over 30 years of “interfering” with whaling and other industries that operate in defiance of international regulations and agreements.

  • David

    AnimuX:

    I iterate each point that where what you have said does not match what I have seen for myself. You insist that either it is all a smear campaign with some hidden financial backing or you say what I saw with my own eyes is false. Much like when you can clearly see the thruster wash of the Ady Gil plowing into Shonan Maru.

    Blowing up things, putting people’s lives at risk, throwing things at people, ramming ships. Sounds like terrorist activities to me. Activists use constructive means not destructive ones.

    Maybe since they have been doing it for these “30 years” you have just become numb to it. Civilized people don’t see it that way.

  • David

    Everyone else except AnimuX:

    If you really want to protect whales, tuna, and anything else, please support worthy organizations.

    Greenpeace, World Wildlife Federation, Humane Society International, Save the Whales, Blue Voice, or many other reputable and non-violent groups.

    It may take longer but these terrorists should be put out of business.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Maybe since they have been doing it for these “30 years” you have just become numb to it.”
    ——————–
    With all due respect to your opinion, and you are fully entitled to it, I understand why some people find Sea Shepherd’s tactics to be shocking. They are a confrontational group.

    However, to insinuate that they’re out to kill people is completely ignorant of the history of the organization and the industries it has opposed over time. And basically ignorant of environmental activism in general.

    If we look at the response to environmental activists (including the ones that just stand around with cameras) we can see examples where:

    Whalers fired harpoons just over the heads of activists in zodiac boats. Sealers physically assaulted cameramen with haikpiks. Ivory poachers have shot at activists and park wardens alike.

    In some of these cases activists have even been killed. Like Dian Fossey who was murdered by gorilla poachers because she dismantled their traps and reported them to authorities.

    A Greenpeace cameraman was murdered when the French special forces bombed the Rainbow Warrior in New Zealand to stop GP from protesting nuclear tests.

    There are many other examples. Still, you call the activists violent and compare them to terrorists without a thought as to what they’re up against.

    To think that a giant steel Japanese whaling ship weighing in at hundreds of tons changed course and veered directly toward a small carbon fiber boat full of activists idling in the water giving them exactly 9 seconds to react. Blaming the activists for the collision is a bit like blaming a pedestrian for being hit by an 18 wheeler on a sidewalk. It’s as if the whalers thought they could get away with killing a group of activists and call it an accident. Yet those ideologically opposed to environmental activism will place the blame according to their beliefs regardless of any circumstances. They’ll squint at a partial video and proclaim that in the last 0.5 seconds the activists suddenly lunged in front of the whaling ship. To my knowledge, no charges have been filed.

    Despite all of this, I can not find a single incident where an environmental activist has murdered a whaler or a sealer or even a poacher.

    Sea Shepherd confronts the Japanese whaling fleet by getting in the way. They shoot cameras instead of machine guns. They throw stink bombs instead of grenades. They don’t kill people. They don’t try to kill people. That’s the reality of the situation. Continuing to insist that they’re terrorists is nothing more than an expression of ideological bias (or a contribution to the ongoing industry-backed negative campaign to demonize environmental activism).

  • David

    AnimuX:

    Yes, I do have an ideological bias. I am against violence. I never insinuated that Sea Shepherds were out to kill people. I clearly stated that they put people’s lives at risk. Both sides.

    Citing violence from others does not justify yours.

    I call your characterization of the actions of the Ady Gil a misrepresentation. A highly maneuverable high speed boat put itself in harm’s way, putting it’s crew and others in danger. The collision was avoidable. It is a captain’s responsibility to avoid collision. You are the one being dramatic and insinuating that the ship was out to kill and call it an accident. Without the Ady Gil’s acceleration before impact, it is not clear that the Shonan Maru would have collided with the Ady Gil on the course it was heading. If the captain of the Ady Gil had moved in reverse or even kept out of range of the Shonan Maru, as was his responsibilityby law, the collision would not have been even possible.

    Do I think that the Shonan Maru went to far? Yes. Do I think that they were intentionally trying to kill the people aboard the Ady Gil? No.

    The violence that Sea Shepherd advocates breeds more violence.

    What happens when they are using machine guns instead of water cannons? How far are you willing to let the violence escalate?

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Without the Ady Gil’s acceleration before impact, it is not clear that the Shonan Maru would have collided with the Ady Gil on the course it was heading. If the captain of the Ady Gil had moved in reverse or even kept out of range of the Shonan Maru, as was his responsibilityby law, the collision would not have been even possible.”
    —————————
    AnimuX Says: The Shonan Maru No. 2 suddenly changed its course to line up with the Ady Gil instead of keeping its original course avoiding the activist boat. Under the “Rules of the Road” as the overtaking and “give-way” vessel, the Shonan Maru 2 was required by law to steer clear of the Ady Gil.

    Instead, she changed course and headed straight for the activist boat with a mere 9 seconds passing between the turn and the collision. Not much time for the activists to react. Not much choice in the matter.

    Once again, those with an ideological bias judge this event in favor of the whalers. Their insane conclusions are the crew of the Ady Gil either purposely wrecked their own ship for publicity at the very last second OR mishandled their craft at the very last second causing the collision. Never mind the many degrees of turn taken by the Shonan Maru 2 as it lined up for a kill shot on the idling Ady Gil.
    —————————
    David Says: “The violence that Sea Shepherd advocates breeds more violence.

    What happens when they are using machine guns instead of water cannons? How far are you willing to let the violence escalate?”
    —————————
    AnimuX Says: Yet again, an outburst of emotional exaggeration. For over 30 years Sea Shepherd has interfered with whaling and other industries that defy international regulations and conservation efforts. They don’t beat down or kill people. They don’t plan to beat down or kill people. (Despite the violence shown to them by others)

  • David

    AnimuX:

    You clearly do not fully understand COLREGS. There is no real concept of right of way as we are used to seeing on the highway. BOTH vessels are responsible to avoid collision. Not just the give way vessel. Playing chicken with ships is almost as stupid as playing chicken with trains. Someone is going to get hurt.

    I was not suggesting that the Sea Shepherds were the one with machine guns instead of water cannons. The water cannons in the Ady Gil video were obviously on the Shonan Maru.

    I will say it more directly:

    When you up the ante with more violence, you cannot expect that the opposition will cower and desist. They usually bring out bigger guns. Do you expect that the escalation will not continue? Sea Shepherds have already used explosives, chemical weapons (however benign you portray them), ramming and other violent means. The other side is escalating as a reaction as well. Eventually it will result in loss of life.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Shepherds have already used explosives, chemical weapons (however benign you portray them), ramming and other violent means. ”
    ——————-
    Let’s see… (again looking to history…) A pirate whaler called “The Sierra” was sunk with a limpet mine in port without killing anybody back in 1980 by unknown saboteurs…

    The Sierra was infamous for having no “country” officially represent it at the International Whaling Commission. This is because the ship was killing whales completely outside of international regulations. The crew of Sierra killed endangered species, undersized whales and in areas designated off limits for hunting. The unreported meat, of course, was being smuggled back to Japan because Taiyo fisheries was funding the operation and it was completely illegal.

    Taking out the Sierra was a bit like burning down a meth lab in a place where nobody else would shut it down.

    Later in Spain, Ibsa I and II were also taken out in a similar manner. Again, in port and without hurting anybody.

    While these events have been loosely attributed to, even claimed by, Sea Shepherd at least one author, David Day, suggests the perpetrators were not with the organization and took advantage of the confusion. Again, these ships were pirate whalers. They were not operating within the regulations established by the International Whaling Commission. They were out regularly killing endangered species.

    Many other whaling ships have been scuttled simply by opening the seacocks and letting them take on water in port. And still, nobody was killed.

    But under your ideological interpretation of history, putting a hole in an empty boat, that was used for illegal purposes, while specifically avoiding the loss of human life is terrorism…

    (And once again… stink bombs are not deadly WMDs. Stop exaggerating.)

  • David

    AnimuX:

    Just because people have not yet been killed by Sea Shepherd’s violent tactics does not make them right.

    You have not invalidated my position that Sea Shepherds use violent tactics. You have not invalidated that they work outside international law. You seem to actually relish their violence.

    I have kept the discussion civil even when you repeatedly tried to bait me by misstating what I have said. Unless you have some thing legitimate to add to counter what I have already stated, I am not going to continue pointless bantering. I am not trying to convince you of anything. You are not going to convince me of anything. Everyone who reads this exchange will see both sides of this argument and reach their own conclusions. Hopefully, they will see what your position represents and make the intelligent choice to avoid the violent path you promote.

  • richard ruais

    To Capt. Paul Watson:

    How dare you use a President Teddy Rossevelt quote to justify your preposterously irresponsible actions at sea ramming vessels on the Steve Irwin vessel whether targeting whaling or bluefin tuna fishing activities. There is simply no possible rational justification for you or Sea Shepard to justify the risk of a single human life in the pursuit of your insane unachievable goal of the denying the human race of life sustaining, healthy protein from the sea including rational sustainable whaling. In case you are unaware, a 47 year old father died last week when an overpopulated whale population in New England capsized his kayak in Provincetown Harbor last week while he was simply trying to recreate with a paddle across a sheltered harbor.

    Maybe you should call his widow and 2 kids and explain your mission?

    I have been involved for 31 years responsiby participating in international fora and domestic meetings all around the world seeking appropriate conservation and management. Why don’t you and you colleagues try particpating in a responsible fashion.

    Cheers.

    Richard P. Ruais
    Salem, N.H. 03079

    Your actions are a disgrace to intelligent human beings. You are completely out of control and irresponsible in the direction of your activities to achieve conservation objectives.

    Cheers

  • BigBadPete

    I hate a race that cannibalised and used Australian troops for bayonet practice, and until the truth about what the Imperial army did during world war 2 is taught openly to the japanese people and the whole sordid truth comes to light, I will continue to hate the bastards. For the sake of the innocents who suffered under the heel of the japanese THIS MUST NOT BE FOrGOTTON OR FORGIVEN anymore that what the NAZIS did to the Jews.

    I remember the rape of nankin,remember changi,remember the machinegunning of the australian nurses, remember the batann deathmarch, remember the burma railway, remember hellfire pass, remember the comfort women, remember sandarkin, I know my history, its a pity the Japanese don,t remember, I have no love, respect, for this despicable race.

    Go Sea Shepherds!

  • The Pagurus

    Captain Paul Watson,

    I’m all for conservation, and I do have to say that some of your worst enemies are actually proclaiming themselves to be some of your most ardent supporters. People like Donovan and AnimuX are so filled with hate and rage that they cannot carry on any kind of reasonable argument. You say that forums and blogs are filled with trolls, and that posting something is like poking a hornets nest – but I have to tell you that the “supposed” Sea Shepherd supporters are at times, far worse. I call them “supposed” because they can’t tell the difference between a “pro-whaling” individual and an “anti-whaling” individual that just may not agree with your tactics. To people like them, they all get lumped into “pro-whaling, paid ICR trolls, etc. Most online conversations start OK, but then e-thuggery ensues. That hurts your cause in so many ways. All it results in is uniting pro and anti-whaling people together against the SSCS. How’s that for irony – a unison of folks who are on opposite sides of a cause to oppose a third side that should have united all that believe in it.

    Are AnimuX or Donovan actually racists? I don’t think so, but they don’t bother to criticize anyone who is, though, and that is hypocritical for anyone who purports to be for deeds and not words. They’re not alone, they just happen to be two of the biggest loudmouths. Closing down the Sea Shepherd forum was probably the best thing that could have been done – the amount of hate rhetoric, not just racist, was definitely on the rise, and was counter-productive to your cause in the worst possible ways.

    I do applaud your call for calm on Facebook, but frankly, I don’t see it really doing much. Any site that begins with “F…Off (insert your country here)…. isn’t going to win any fans in that particular country. I’m not at all impressed by the membership at FOJLTWA – I have no doubt that if you look at the IP’s of the membership, you’ll find the same ones repeated countless times over. It’s not that hard to bot memberships.

    If you ever want to have any chance of actually stopping whaling, you have to do a 180 and work with the Japanese people. I know that is counter to your belief, but again, all your action has done is to unite both anti and pro whaling forces in Japan. The individual whalers aren’t your enemy – they don’t make the laws that allow them to do what they do – the industry does.

    The US is working with a multi-national force to save the Vaquita in the Gulf of California, and it is a model of unilateral cooperation to save this cetacean. Mexican fishermen, who have been catching these in their nets didn’t have their ships rammed and bottles of butyric acid thrown at them – they were approached in a civil manner and are being educated as to the critical nature of this conservation effort and the multi-national force is continuing to work with them to adjust their techniques so that they don’t get caught in the nets, as well as helping them to find an alternative living. What can’t it be that way with the whales and Japan, or Iceland, or Norway?

    David,

    It’s probably not worth it to pursue any conversation with AnimuX – this individual has a long history of simply posting that which he does not understand, and resorts to anger and rambling, as is evident in the posts above.

    By the way – BigBadPete needs to switch to decaf….

  • David

    The Pagurus:

    Oh, I know that discussing anything with AnimuX is a just a waste of time.

    Seriously, how could any rational person not view bombing, throwing noxious chemicals, and ramming multiple ton ships as anything but violent?

    But like you yourself are doing, taking a bit of time to throw in a bit of logic and mature discussion whittles away their support but honestly, the “supporters” like AnimuX and the fake poster calling himself Captain Paul Watson flailing around with their viscousness does more to drive away their supporters you or I could possibly do.

    Why do I believe that the poster using the name Captain Paul Watson is a fake? While I disagree with the tactics of the real Captain Paul Watson, the last thing I would ever accuse him of was being a poor communicator. Whoever was posting here under his name would have trouble passing a high school writing test.

  • AnimuX

    The Pagurus Says: “People like Donovan and AnimuX are so filled with hate and rage that they cannot carry on any kind of reasonable argument.”
    ————————–
    AnimuX Says: The ongoing negative campaign against Sea Shepherd shows absolutely no intent of engaging in any form of reasonable debate over whaling or even Blue Fin Tuna. Instead these characters are completely obsessed with demonizing and marginalizing an environmental movement.
    ————————-
    The Pagurus Says: “All it results in is uniting pro and anti-whaling people together against the SSCS. ”
    ————————-
    AnimuX Says: Another false claim often made by those who actively campaign against Sea Shepherd. They claim they are not for whaling but they are against Sea Shepherd itself. However, these characters also often follow by speaking out against Sea Shepherd with nothing to say against whaling.
    ————————-
    The Pagurus Says:”If you ever want to have any chance of actually stopping whaling, you have to do a 180 and work with the Japanese people.”
    ————————-
    AnimuX Says: This strategy has been attempted by Greenpeace. (Another environmental organization branded as racist and terrorist by Japan and negative anti-environmentalist campaigns) In fact, two Japanese members of Greenpeace recently attempted to expose the illegal actions of whalers. After gathering evidence and reporting this to the authorities, both of the activists were arrested, imprisoned and are now on trial. International evaluation has determined the Japanese government has violated their basic human rights. They’re now political prisoners of their own government for attempting to expose the illegal actions of whalers. So much for working from within Japan.
    ————————-
    The Pagurus Says: “Mexican fishermen, who have been catching these in their nets didn’t have their ships rammed and bottles of butyric acid thrown at them”
    ————————-
    AnimuX Says: The same Mexican fishermen do not have a long history of purposely violating and subverting internationally established whaling regulations and conservation efforts. The Mexican government has not spread propaganda, used overseas aid as bribes, established foreign front companies to illegally kill whales (among other violations committed by Japan). Sea Shepherd has not randomly interfered with Japan’s whaling operations. Japan’s long history of government sponsored violation and subversion of international regulations and resolutions are, in fact, the reason Sea Shepherd opposes Japanese whaling. Iceland and Norway are responsible for similar whaling offenses and are also opposed by Sea Shepherd as a result.
    ————————
    The Pagurus Says: “It’s probably not worth it to pursue any conversation with AnimuX – this individual has a long history of simply posting that which he does not understand, and resorts to anger and rambling, as is evident in the posts above.”
    ————————
    AnimuX Says: You don’t have to take my word for any part of the history of whaling. Just do some reading. There are many excellent and informative books about the modern whaling industry out there just waiting to inform people about the history of subversion and violation of international regulations by Japan and other whaling nations. Please go and read about why so many species of whales remain endangered to this day.

    I highly recommend: Whaling in Japan, by Jun Morikawa and Harpoon: Into the heart of whaling by Andrew Darby.

  • David

    AnimuX:

    “AnimuX Says: The ongoing negative campaign against Sea Shepherd shows absolutely no intent of engaging in any form of reasonable debate over whaling or even Blue Fin Tuna. Instead these characters are completely obsessed with demonizing and marginalizing an environmental movement.”

    No, I am pretty sure that his statement was about your posting and not Sea Shepherd.

    “AnimuX Says: Another false claim is often made by those who actively campaign against Sea Shepherd. They claim they are not for whaling but they are against Sea Shepherd itself. However, these characters also often follow by speaking out against Sea Shepherd with nothing to say against whaling.”

    Nope, wrong again, He was pointing out that your ranting was a good at uniting pretty much everyone against Sea Shepherd. Keep up the good work at making them look even worse than they are.

    “AnimuX Says: The same Mexican fishermen do not have a long history of purposely violating and subverting internationally established whaling regulations and conservation efforts. The Mexican government has not spread propaganda, used overseas aid as bribes, established foreign front companies to illegally kill whales (among other violations committed by Japan).”

    No, you mean that since the Sea Shepherds weren’t involved, it doesn’t count.

    “AnimuX Says: You don’t have to take my word for any part of the history of whaling. ”

    Don’t worry, we are not taking your word on the history of anything.

    Before you bother replying to me, I am just taking pot shots at the ridiculous statements you are making and not entering conversation.

  • Jon Anderson

    Animux is definitely a racist. He continually tries to form connections between WWII Imperial Japan fascism and the “brutal” practice of whaling. As does Mr. Watson. As most sane people would realize, they are two entirely disparate events, yet irrational people that frequent the Sea Shepherd movement are able to make the jump into sheer ignorance and preach fiction as inherent truth.

    Mr. Watson has shown an absolute disregard for logical debate, instead resorting to pointless personal attacks and deliberate misinformation. Instead of considering justified outrages or murky subjects, he intentionally provokes and attacks others, dismissing any views not coinciding with his own as unimportant. Like a child, he believes that ANY propaganda about the SS is great as it inevitably gets his inane message out, no matter how biased, edited, and completely composed of bulls___ it is. I would greatly love to see him try and stop European whaling again. That was a success, yes?

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Before you bother replying to me, I am just taking pot shots”
    ———————–
    AnimuX Says: Exactly. Those out to demonize Sea Shepherd and other environmental activists are not trying to ‘make conversation’ or discuss the long history of violation and subversion of international regulations and conservation efforts by Japan and other whaling nations. (Much less the peril of Blue Fin Tuna due to IUU fishing…)

  • Mr Philips

    Those out to demonize Sea Shepherd are the same people who would have been against the abolition of slavery, womens rights or opposing the Nazis.
    It takes basic intelligence to know that killing an endangered species of life is wrong. The people who oppose the actions of Sea Shepherd are the same people who would walk on by if a puppy was getting kicked in the street, or turn a blind eye if a child was getting bullied.

  • David

    I was not talking about Sea Shepherds. I already expressed my sentiments about them.

    I was talking about AnimuX’s posts. He is not Sea Shepherds incarnate. Even if he is a member or supporter, he is not their designated representative. I was very patient with his posts before.

  • David

    Mr. Philips:

    Those who demonize Sea Shepherds are more like those who can be against the Taliban but not against billions of devout and peaceable Muslims.

    Sea Shepherd’s violent actions are not the only path to righteousness. Far from it. As I have stated before, the ends do not justify the means.

  • Sea Cucumber

    Lol – AnimuX definitely isn’t an actual Sea Shepherd member and never was. He’s just some turd that posted continuously, and mean REALLY continuously on the forum with every bit of drivel that he could dredge up, legit or not, it was all gospel to AnimuX. He’s one of the reasons that their forum was cut away like the cancer it was. He can have fun with his “Retardian Alliance” now. Lol! He has to live with the fact that the organization that he fawned over for most of his life considers him a loser and shut him out. Yeah, that must have been embarrassing!

  • David

    Sea Cucumber:

    Yeah, I went back to the links at the top of the page and read the same tripe that he is reposting here. But anyway, I encourage him a little as his posts do more to harm his cause than I could possibly do. As long as he continues to make them look even more extremist than they are, who am I to argue?

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Those who demonize Sea Shepherds are more like those who can be against the Taliban but not against billions of devout and peaceable Muslims. ”
    ———————-
    Once again, you continue with this exaggeration and false comparison of activists who have never killed a single human being to one of the most oppressive and murderous regimes on the face of the Earth.

    Sea Shepherd’s efforts to protect the oceans do conflict with several environmentally destructive industries (such as shark finning, commercial whaling and IUU fishing of blue fin tuna). Unfortunately, the conflict also includes an ongoing industry backed negative campaign against environmental activism.
    ———————-
    David Says: “He is not Sea Shepherds incarnate. Even if he is a member or supporter, he is not their designated representative.”
    ———————-
    AnimuX Says: This is correct. I do not represent (nor have I ever represented) Sea Shepherd in any capacity. I’m not a member or an organizer.
    ———————-
    David Says: “Sea Shepherd’s violent actions are not the only path to righteousness. Far from it. As I have stated before, the ends do not justify the means.”
    ———————
    AnimuX Says: Sea Shepherd’s acts of vandalism, interference and investigation, sometimes in cooperation with law enforcement entities, have led to the arrest of poachers, the recovery of illegal fishing gear and ghost nets that kill wildlife indiscriminately, and the survival of hundreds of whales that would otherwise have been slaughtered in a whale sanctuary by those who refuse to honor internationally established regulations and conservation efforts. They continue to help protect the Galapagos, whales and now even Blue Fin Tuna in their efforts to stop illegal fishing and enforce adherence to international agreements.

    The negative campaign against Sea Shepherd continues with wildly exaggerated and patently false accusations comparing this anti-poaching group to the world’s worst murderers (despite the oft repeated fact that in over 30 years of operation Sea Shepherd has never killed a single human being). It’s all intended to evoke an emotional response, completely ignorant of the facts, in support of environmentally destructive industries.

  • David

    Amen bother. Keep preaching. The longer you spout nonsense, the more people you will alienate.

    And when the they get tired of their violent tactics they have been failing with for 30 years, what is their next step? Killing?

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “And when the they get tired of their violent tactics they have been failing with for 30 years, what is their next step? Killing?”
    ——————-
    AnimuX Says: As a matter of fact, NO. Which is entirely the point. No matter how long this smear campaign against Sea Shepherd and other environmental activists goes on, the fact remains that these environmental protesters and activists do not kill people or beat people up.

    The same can not be said for poachers, sealers and whalers who have attacked and in some cases murdered environmental activists.

  • David

    Ok, let me get this straight.

    AnimuX Says: This is correct. I do not represent (nor have I ever represented) Sea Shepherd in any capacity. I’m not a member or an organizer.

    But yet you are privy to their plans? Hmm. Sure sounds like you are trying to represent them right here in this forum.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “But yet you are privy to their plans? Hmm. Sure sounds like you are trying to represent them right here in this forum.”
    —————–
    AnimuX Says: Sea Shepherd has repeatedly stated “officially” that it does not attempt or intend to kill people. Over 30 years of Sea Shepherd intervention, against poaching and violation of international regulations and conservation efforts, without killing a single person serves as evidence to this fact.

    Not that it matters to those intent on demonizing Sea Shepherd and other environmental groups.

  • David

    Yes, their 30 years of failure is a such a glowing recommendation. 30 years of violence. 30 years of not stopping anything. Maybe if they didn’t alienate people with their violence, more would have been done without their causing more problems than they remedy.

    But back on topic, you are here representing their views and goals but you claim not to be a member or represent them. By the way, stop trying to insinuate that people are painting Sea Shepherd and the “other environmental groups” with the same brush. The only one getting bashed here is the Sea Shepherds. Quite deservedly, I might add. Well, also some wanna be defenders are getting some heat as well.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “But back on topic, you are here representing their views and goals but you claim not to be a member or represent them.”
    ——————-
    AnimuX Says: I’m merely responding to the inaccurate and exaggerated accusations made by others intent on demonizing Sea Shepherd.
    ——————-
    David Says: “By the way, stop trying to insinuate that people are painting Sea Shepherd and the “other environmental groups” with the same brush. The only one getting bashed here is the Sea Shepherds.”
    ——————-
    AnimuX Says: You are either ignorant of the larger efforts to attack all environmental activism or share an ideological bias against Sea Shepherd with other anti-environmentalist critics. Regardless, there is an industry backed campaign against Sea Shepherd, Greenpeace, the Humane Society and other organizations.

    Unfortunately, whether it’s an industry front like the CCF attacking the Humane Society, or a national government like Japan attacking Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd, or even random bloggers denouncing PETA, the intent is the same. Each grossly exaggerates, makes false accusations and more in an attempt to demonize organizations that act against or protest environmentally destructive (and morally reprehensible) industries.

  • David

    Yes, I already admitted I have a bias. I am biased against violence. Please stop beating that dead horse.

    I am not ignorant of other organizations attacking environmental activism. It is mainly fueled by the example of violent behavior of groups like Sea Shepherds. That is why Greenpeace, Humane Society International and all other environmental groups of any real conscience have distanced themselves from Sea Shepherds.

    Sea Shepherds *should* be demonized. They use violence to try (and fail) to achieve their goals..

  • David

    For those who are not familiar, here is Greenpeace’s stand against Sea Shepherd and Paul Watson:

    http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/paul-watson-sea-shepherd-and

    Humane Society International has one link on their website mentioning Sea Shepherd as one link on their Dress as a Dolphin day. Yeah, that is a hearty recommendation.

    http://www.hsus.org/hsi/oceans/dolphins/drive_fisheries/japan_dolphin_day_2008_events.html

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Yes, I already admitted I have a bias. I am biased against violence.”
    —————–
    AnimuX Says: Somehow I doubt you’re an anti-war activist as well as opposed to Sea Shepherd.

    Throwing stink bombs at boats is not comparable to nuclear war (a comparison you’ve already made). Putting holes in unoccupied boats, that were used for illegal purposes, sinking them in port and causing no harm to others is not the equivalent of an Al Qaida attack that kills thousands of innocents. Confiscating illegal nets, collecting evidence against shark finners, placing an activist ship between a harpoon boat and a whale in an internationally established whale sanctuary, these are not acts of violence against people.

    Unfortunately, you and others continue to exaggerate and make false comparisons and paint a false narrative about Sea Shepherd and environmental activism in general.
    ——————-
    David Says: “I am not ignorant of other organizations attacking environmental activism. It is mainly fueled by the example of violent behavior of groups like Sea Shepherds. That is why Greenpeace, Humane Society International and all other environmental groups of any real conscience have distanced themselves from Sea Shepherds.

    Sea Shepherds *should* be demonized. They use violence to try (and fail) to achieve their goals..”
    ——————-
    AnimuX Says: Another completely incorrect statement. In each case where an environmental organization is being smeared publicly by industry fronts and others, many of the same exaggerations and false accusations are made.

    These campaigns make as many false statements as they can dream up in order to erode public support through propaganda. Every protest action from boycotts, to simple sign holding protest, to video documentation to pie throwing, net cutting, tree sitting and more – it’s all demonized with false statements in order to make it all seem unacceptably extreme to an uninformed public.

    This is perhaps why Sea Shepherd directly acts to enforce international regulations rather than simply arguing over propaganda while the industries continue with environmentally harmful and illegal practices, unhindered.

    In fact, Sea Shepherd can claim real results from its direct action campaigns including the reduction of Japan’s attempted take of whales, the arrests of poachers, overall improvements in the enforcement of environmental protection in the Galapagos and much more.

  • David

    AnimuX Says: Somehow I doubt you’re an anti-war activist as well as opposed to Sea Shepherd.

    I honestly could care less about what you presume to know about me.

    AnimuX Says: Another completely incorrect statement. In each case where an environmental organization is being smeared publicly by industry fronts and others, many of the same exaggerations and false accusations are made.

    What industry do Greenpeace and Humane Society International front for? These were *your* example organizations.

    Peddle your nonsense to people that cannot read.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “What industry do Greenpeace and Humane Society International front for?”
    ——————–
    AnimuX Says: You seem to forget that Greenpeace activists have been called terrorists by Japan for nothing more than civil disobedience such as chaining themselves to harpoon cannons in port.

    You also seem to forget that groups like CCF allege that the Humane Society is all about politics and not about protecting animals.

    Indeed, they aren’t the same as Sea Shepherd, nor does every organization agree on how to work against environmentally destructive industries. They have different approaches to different problems and don’t necessarily agree with each others’ methods.

    However, that doesn’t change the fact that industry fronts and in some cases governments supporting industry (like Japan) do attack these and other environmental organizations with propaganda including false accusations and comparisons to paint a negative narrative of extremism.

  • David

    Yes, and you are the final arbitrator for which environmental groups are valid and which are not. The methods that they disagree on are the violent methods of Sea Shepherds. The hole you are digging for yourself is getting deeper.

    I think I will go take a nap. I am getting bored with your canned responses and circular reasoning that have no basis in reality or bearing on the conversation. Turn off the lights when you are done.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Yes, and you are the final arbitrator for which environmental groups are valid and which are not.”
    ——————
    AnimuX Says: I said no such thing.

    The fact is, controversial or not, Sea Shepherd gets results and is demonized because it is effective, not irrelevant.

    The organization fulfills a vital role in reforming and combating illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing (poaching), as well as raising awareness and enforcing adherence to internationally established regulations and conservation efforts.

    I’ve no doubt that Sea Shepherd will have an impact on illegal Blue Fin Tuna fishing in the Mediterranean and help to expose the ongoing problem that is still driving this species of tuna (which, according to scientific evaluation, should be on the endangered species list) to the brink of extinction.

  • romika3

    Watson has a seething hatred of the people whose livelihood he threatens. He’s an elitist who, despite his upbringing among maritime fishermen, has no sympathy for those who make their living from the ocean. He begins his book Seal Wars by calling Canadian sealers “the uneducated and the institutionally unemployed,” “barbarians,” and “piss-drunk on cheap booze. This is how he seas all fishermen. All SSCS can do is chase and torment fishermen with stink bombs and preform for the TV cameras. Heading to project the tuna, when one of the greatest marine disasters behind in their wake. We have no respect for Watson and the SSCS.

  • romika3

    “Sea Shepherd does not oppose legal fishing operations. Sea Shepherd is an anti-poaching organization…” now Mr. Watson, if you be him in the post. If Sea Shepherd does not oppose legal fishing operations then what is up with your involvement in protesting the seal hunt. The hunt is a fishery in the eyes of a fisherman, it is legal and it is not a poaching operation. We all know that SSCS, PETA and HSUS involvement is all based on the ‘fundraising potential’ we know, and you know it because you said so in an interview with Barbara Frum on CBC radio.!!!!

  • romika3

    “The organization fulfills a vital role in reforming and combating illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing (poaching), as well as raising awareness and enforcing adherence to internationally established regulations and conservation efforts.” The role of the SSCS seems to change. If the above is the role of the SSCS then why are they involved with the seal hunt. it is not illegal, it is not unregulated, its is managed (conservation), it is not illegal. So why is SSCS involved? The answer, it is easy to raise funds on the backs of Canadain fishermen. Shame on the SSCS.

  • David

    Ok, one last round.

    AnimuX:

    Sea Shepherd does not get demonized because it is effective. It gets demonized because it is violent and breaks laws. I do agree that they are not irrelevant. The harm that they do is very relevant.

    It is going to “expose” illegal blue fin tuna fishing that everyone already knows goes on. The only effect it will have is to gain sympathy for the illegal fishermen by subjecting them to illegal and violent acts. They will be the poster boys for the demonization of the moral activists. Thirty years later, Greenpeace still wears the stigma that people like Watson gave it.

    Sea Shepherds has tried for 30 years and failed to end whaling and now it is going to branch into not stopping illegal blue fin tuna fishing. Big deal, what other field is it going to embrace with its failure next?

    In you world, using explosives to sink ships is not violent, ramming ships is not violent, throwing noxious chemicals is not violent. Greenpeace, Humane Society International, the International Whaling Commission, world governments and rational human beings agree that it is violence. It is not some big industrial conspiracy. It is a rational and moral view of civilization and peaceful resolution of conflict.

    Sea Shepherd does not adhere to international law but expects everyone else to. It has no legal or moral authority to practice its violence.

    Ghandi, Mandela, King, and many others have proven that non-violent methods are effective and morally right. They had their detractors that encouraged violence. The only people that seem to think it has any place are the few deluded that are frustrated with the slower legal and non-violent methods that civilized and moral organizations use. Violence may be potentially faster than peaceful resolution but that does not make it right. Deal with it.

  • AnimuX

    romika3 Says: “If the above is the role of the SSCS then why are they involved with the seal hunt. it is not illegal, it is not unregulated, its is managed (conservation), it is not illegal. So why is SSCS involved?”
    ———————
    AnimuX Says: The answer is as plain as the opinion of a majority of Canadian people who oppose the seal hunt regardless of the government’s support for it. It’s an industry built upon cruel practices for the purpose of creating a “luxury” item of pelts gained by shooting and beating baby seals to death. Sea Shepherd and other organizations have documented common violations of the regulations set by the DFO that amount to cruelty and some have attempted to interfere with the hunt. Nations of the European Union have also recognized the inherent cruelty of the seal hunt and recently banned the import of seal products from a commercial hunt.
    ———————
    David Says: “In you world, using explosives to sink ships is not violent, ramming ships is not violent, throwing noxious chemicals is not violent. Greenpeace, Humane Society International, the International Whaling Commission, world governments and rational human beings agree that it is violence. It is not some big industrial conspiracy. It is a rational and moral view of civilization and peaceful resolution of conflict.”
    ———————
    AnimuX Says: Striking inanimate objects and producing unpleasant odors is not violence against people. Also, the ‘objects’ struck are the tools of the very industry opposed by the activists – not private homes or public gatherings or any people. There’s no intent to harm others and in 30 years of operation not one human being has been killed in any Sea Shepherd action.

    The misconception generated over years of negative campaigning is that somehow vandalism is the same as violence against people. This is why you and so many others continue to exaggerate and falsely imply that throwing stink bombs, grinding two ships together at sea or putting a hole in a ship (used for illegal purposes, in port and unmanned) where care is taken to ensure that human beings are not killed…

    … is somehow (according to this warped ideology) the equivalent of a terrorist bombing where hundreds or thousands of people are killed. Quite clearly, the established fact is Sea Shepherd does not beat up or kill people.

    Sea Shepherd gets in the way and creates difficulties for environmentally destructive and morally reprehensible industries. They expose illegal poaching activities and attempt to enforce adherence to international regulations and conservation efforts.

  • David

    I know I was going to quit responding to this nonsense but I had to laugh at this one..

    AnumuX:

    “This is why you and so many others continue to exaggerate and falsely imply that throwing stink bombs, grinding two ships together at sea or putting a hole in a ship”

    “Never mind the many degrees of turn taken by the Shonan Maru 2 as it lined up for a kill shot on the idling Ady Gil.”

    If they do it it is lining up for a kill shot. If Sea Shepard does it, it is merely grinding two ships together.

    Your logic is so flawed on so many levels I really think I should stop discussing this with you and let you seek out professional help. I think you are beyond logical discussion. You seem to be able to rationalize anything if it benefits your warped mental picture.

    Goodbye.

  • romika3

    The only reason why the Canadian seal hunt is targeted is because it is an easy money maker. The hunt in Namabia is ignored, the six species of seals on the endangered list are ignored. The present population of harp seals is approaching 7.5 million, with 1.2 million pups born this year and approximately 70,000 harvested (1% of the population). HSUS planned to raise $400,000.00 this spring on the backs of Canadain fishermen. PETA members still roll around the streets of New York dressed in white sheets, SSCS wasn’t there this spring because they were making more money in the Southern Ocean and preforming for the camera. SSCS is a farce and an embarassment. They still post images that are over 30 years old on their web site, use the white coat when has never been hunted since 1987 and selectivly edit video to communicate false impressions. The bottom line SSCS, PETA and HSUS are scammers.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “If they do it it is lining up for a kill shot. If Sea Shepard does it, it is merely grinding two ships together.”
    ——————-
    AnimuX Says: Sea Shepherd has never rammed a small boat full of whalers with a large steel ship. Sea Shepherd has never sunk a ship at sea full of people.

    However, whalers have purposely rammed a small boat full of activists and nearly killed 6 people and the damage actually sank the boat.

    There is a distinct difference between the large steel Shonan Maru 2 destroying the small carbon fiber Ady Gil and the Steve Irwin grinding some paint off of another large steel Japanese harpoon ship.

    The fact is that opponents of Sea Shepherd and other environmental groups are perfectly willing to overlook the reality of the situation in favor of the ongoing smear campaign.

  • romika3

    “Striking inanimate objects and producing unpleasant odors is not violence against people” So, what you are saying is that is alright to slash tires on a car, burn a house, break windows because it’s not violence againest people. You and your SSCS members, most of which are youth who do not understands the general principals sound management and conservation pratices, are brainwashed. Regarding SSCS not harming people one of Watson’s latest escapades has landed him in some serious trouble. According to The Tico Times, Central America’s foremost English-language newspaper, Costa Rica is investigating him for attempted murder after Costa Rican fishermen said he attacked them when he tried to force their boat into a Guatemalan port in April 2002. A judge ordered him to stay in Costa Rican territory. A defiant Watson instead fled the country.

  • AnimuX

    romika3 Says: “The only reason why the Canadian seal hunt is targeted is because it is an easy money maker.”
    ———————-
    AnimuX Says: The second most common exaggeration made about environmental organizations is that they’re really “just in it for the money”. Even when groups like Sea Shepherd are independently evaluated to show most of the donations go directly to operational costs and not overhead.

    And by the way, “white coats” are indeed still killed illegally during the Canadian seal hunts. Seals are still skinned alive in violation of DFO regulations and more. Protest and documentation of the hunt is still relevant, legal and the EU ban shows it is succeeding on many levels. Environmental organizations are strangely making a huge effort to put a permanent stop to the hunt you allege they use for “east money”.

  • romika3

    Regarding the sinking of the Ady Gil it is clear from the video that the Ady Gil was under power and accelerated into the Japanese harpoon ship. And in another collision video, displayed a few weeks later, a Japanese ship turned away and the Bob Barker turned into the whalers. This is clearly demonstrated by viewing that video and studying the bow and the horizon of both boats. Watson savours setting these incidents up as they generate media potential and transulated into more funds. Have you ever wondered why there are so many “donate” buttons on the SSCS web pages as compared to bonified “conservation groups.

  • romika3

    AnimuX Says”And by the way, “white coats” are indeed still killed illegally during the Canadian seal hunts.” Sorry, but you are dead wrong. There is no maket for “white” coats so why would they be killed. This is the myth that you guys build your fundraising on. Perhaps you should have a look Barbara Frums interview of Paul Watson at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_gTBDFTXE0

  • AnimuX

    romika3 Says: “Striking inanimate objects and producing unpleasant odors is not violence against people” So, what you are saying is that is alright to slash tires on a car, burn a house, break windows because it’s not violence againest people.
    ————————
    Wrong. And this is yet another exaggerated attempt to imply Sea Shepherd is out to hurt people.

    Sea Shepherd does not go out and cause damage to people’s homes or people’s cars or the windows on either.

    Sea Shepherd interferes with industries that violate international regulations and in some cases damages the tools used by these industries. This includes illegally deployed fishing nets, whaling ships and more. This does not include an individual’s personal home or personal vehicle. It definitely does NOT include any sort of attempt to beat up or kill any people.

  • romika3

    Paul Watson is a misanthrope who prefers porpoises to people. “I couldn’t understand her compassion for humanity,” he says of an old girlfriend. “She chose people and I chose the Earth, and thus we began to drift apart.” He likes to accuse those who care about people of being “anthropocentric.” And he constantly refers to humans as mere apes. A man who sees his fellow man as mere apes is a dangerous man. It as been said that Paul Watson would see the death of one of his crew member has the “greatest opportunities” to raise the SSCS profile. SSCS is not a conservation organization. Look up the definition of “conservation”. SSCS is an eco-terrorist organization.

  • romika3

    “Sea Shepherd interferes with industries that violate international regulations “The seal hunt does not violate international regulations so why is SSCS protesting against it? It is a managed resource, sustainable, and the population is increasing from 2 million in the mid 90′s to over 7 million now. There is not difference between violence against personal property or violence against cooperated property.

  • David

    I really wonder why if AnimuX feels so strongly about Sea Shepherds and their importance…

    Why isn’t he out with them “putting up the good fight”? It is easy to sit in front of a computer rationalizing their violence and pasting pre-written nonsense. He could hop on a plane and get over there. His inaction is killing whales. His inaction is allowing the devastation and rape of the environment. Every keystroke he types could be putting holes in ships, destroying drag nets, and throwing “stink bombs”. He could be out fund raising and fueling up the Steve Irwin.

    He spends countless hours defending them but he is not out there on the front lines helping. How can he live himself? At least one or two whales could have been saved in the time he have spent here spewing rhetoric in this thread alone instead of actually doing anything. He can sit in front of his computer and feel so good about all the “good he has done for his cause.”

    Of course all his hard work will do is to further marginalize these violent jerks.
    Well, maybe he is doing some good after all.

  • romika3

    AnimuX”And this is yet another exaggerated attempt to imply Sea Shepherd is out to hurt people” I have been tracking SSCS and other groups like yours for years and talk about “exaggerated attempts” to hurt people. Your web page, your message are all exaggerated attempts of prey on the Canadain Fishermen. A group of people who hunt seals along with fishing crab, turbot, cod, and lump fish to make a living with an annual income of between 25 – 35 thousand dollars a year. It have been shown time and time again that the your organization and others like it depend on the Canadain seal hunt to raise a large portion of your funds. This is the way Paul Watons and many others make their living. Most of the individuals who support this campaign have never set foot in easter Canada, have never been to the ice yet alone seen the ocean and have learned all about the seal hunt from SSCS, PETA and HSUS web pages and the many sponsored web pages. The bad news for SSCS is that more and more people are beginning to figure them out. Take a sample of the comments from Youtube, blogs, news etc and then look at them carefully!!!

  • David

    romika3:

    Wait, you have made a mistake.

    “AnimuX Says: This is correct. I do not represent (nor have I ever represented) Sea Shepherd in any capacity. I’m not a member or an organizer.”

    He is then just either a troll or has some kind of odd mental complex. He is just here defending organizations that he is not even a member of. He doesn’t even believe in them enough to join them.

    I know, it doesn’t make any sense to me either. Go figure.

  • romika3

    Finially: Regarding post 5 from Paul Watson. I do not believe this is his post. If you study his commentary ,on the SSCS web page ,you will note that it is usually full of hate and name calling directed towards the people associated with the issues. Post 5 has non of this. I do not beleive that Paul Watson is capable of posting without using name calling , hateful references or insults directed towards a people.

  • AnimuX

    romika3 Says: “There is no maket for “white” coats so why would they be killed.”
    ———————
    Thanks to the EU ban there is also virtually no market for any seal skins yet the tax subsidized hunt continues.

  • richard ruais

    Mr Philips says: Those out to demonize Sea Shepherd are the same people who would have been against the abolition of slavery, womens rights or opposing the Nazis.

    This cannot possibly be a serious comment! How can this ignorance/mentality exist in todays world. You cannot equate efforts to catch marine animals to feed human beings with any of the above humanity issues.

    I have seen the PETA absurdity, but this type of comment is beyond this and reality.

  • romika3

    AnimuZ: “yet the tax subsidized hunt continues.” Sorry to tell you but that is another myth that SSCS, PETA and HSUS perpetuates. The hunt is not subsidized. These are fishermen and the seal hunt is one component of the annual fishing cycle that includes seal, snow crab, lobster, turbot, a small cod quota and a fall crab fishery. Fishermen get a break on gas tax for their boats, they pay income tax, unemployment insurance like every working Canadian,. In addtion if they are setup as an “enterprize” their tax benifits are the same as any Canadain company. They also have the right to collect unemployment insurance like any other Canadain. The idea that the seal hunt is subsidized is a myth and thats all. Another myth is that is toted by SSCS, PETA and HSUS is that all the fisherman who hunt seals have only one job and that they hunt for three or four weeks and then they are off for the rest of the year. That is incorrect. The bottom line the seal hunt is your money maker and you will do what ever you can to keep the donations flowing.

  • AnimuX

    romika3 Says: “The idea that the seal hunt is subsidized is a myth and thats all.”
    ———————
    There used to be millions of dollars annually in direct subsidies. Now indirect government spending on the seal hunt continues to include the cost of sending the coast guard out with icebreakers, helicopters, patrol planes and rescue crews, marketing campaigns, tax breaks and efforts spent to fight other national bans on seal products (including flying politicians around on junkets for this purpose) and of course all of the government personnel needed to support the bureaucratic side of the hunt (licensing, inspection, scientists, media relations, etc).

  • David

    AnimuX:

    “Now indirect government spending on the seal hunt continues to include the cost of sending the coast guard out with icebreakers, helicopters, patrol planes and rescue crews”

    That is just silly. These services are not there to support the seal hunt. Those services will be in place regardless. You might just as well add in the price for the stop lights and roads to that they will use to get to the ocean, maintaining lighthouses, and throw in the satellites for navigation as well.

    “all of the government personnel needed to support the bureaucratic side of the hunt (licensing, inspection, scientists, media relations, etc)”

    All of which will be in place regardless of a seal hunt.

    And you complain that others overstate things.

    Be realistic.

  • romika3

    AnimuX, The above is rubbish. The coast guard is always on patrol on the Northeast coast and their role is meet the needs of all fishermen, recreational boaters etc. What tax breaks ??fishermen get the same tax breaks (they are few) no matter what they fish, liscensing, inspection, scientists etc that is appled to all managed fisheries. Sorry buddy but your logic is that of a desperate man and a desperate organization attempting to justify what they are doing.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “These services are not there to support the seal hunt. Those services will be in place regardless.”
    ——————
    AnimuX Says: Not true. Extra Coast Guard resources are, in fact, deployed specifically to support the seal hunt.

    This would be the part where you’ve revealed you’re not just “anti-Sea Shepherd” by expressing support for the industries Sea Shepherd and other organizations oppose. ;-)
    ——————
    David Says: “All of which will be in place regardless of a seal hunt.”
    ——————
    AnimuX Says: I also sincerely doubt licensing, inspection and media relations would be necessary for a non-existent hunt. Much less flying politicians around on junkets to fight international bans on seal products.
    ——————
    romika3 Says: “Sorry buddy but your logic is that of a desperate man and a desperate organization attempting to justify what they are doing.”
    ——————
    AnimuX Says: The logic is quite simple. The seal hunt is cruel and unnecessary and exists primarily to supply the pelts of thousands of wild animals, only weeks old, to manufacturers for decorative luxury items. Despite popular national and international rejection of the hunt a small minority of business and political interests keep it going. Thankfully, the EU and other nations have banned commercial sale of seal products and will bring about an end to the hunt with the help of organizations like Sea Shepherd, the Humane Society, PETA, IFAW and others.

  • David

    Pretty desperate

    AnimuX Says: Not true. Extra Coast Guard resources are, in fact, deployed specifically to support the seal hunt.
    This would be the part where you’ve revealed you’re not just “anti-Sea Shepherd” by expressing support for the industries Sea Shepherd and other organizations oppose. ;-)

    Supporting the coast guard is supporting industries? That is foolish. The coast guard will even save Sea Shepherds when they wreck their boats and investigate the violent crimes of Sea Shepherds. They save lives, interdict smugglers, and provide numerous well defined benefits to society. They are not some kind of safety guard for supporting seal hunters. They will even arrest people fishing illegally. Lots of other licensing is done by the same facilities. Seal hunting is not the only activity that they require licensing for. That is like saying that if they don’t issue motorcycle licenses, they will shut down the department of motor vehicles.

    As for the politicians, being politicians, they will find somewhere to fly and some camera to get in front of. No helping that.

    Sorry to ruin your false sense of “revealing me.” I am not the one being inconsistent and trying to find some support for an unsupportable position. I am not trying to justify Sea Shepherd’s violence or killing seals. I am merely pointing out that your logic is seriously flawed and should not be unchallenged.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “am not the one being inconsistent and trying to find some support for an unsupportable position. I am not trying to justify Sea Shepherd’s violence or killing seals.”
    —————–
    So you personally believe the seal hunt in Canada should be halted along with the whaling industries of Japan, Norway and Iceland? Just without Sea Shepherd’s involvement?

  • romika3

    “The seal hunt is cruel and unnecessary and exists primarily to supply the pelts of thousands of wild animals, only weeks old, to manufacturers for decorative luxury items” Well, well, well there are many many harvests that supply luxury items that is the nature of the “human”. The seal is sold as pelt, pelt with blubber and the carcuss if the seals desires.

    “I also sincerely doubt licensing, inspection and media relations would be necessary for a non-existent hunt. Much less flying politicians around on junkets to fight international bans on seal products.” The mangement of marine resources is integrated and all fisheries are supported. The same applies to the management of terrestrial resources. Licenses fees, taxs on fuels, income tax paid by fishermen etc support the system.

    There are many cases where extra coast guard resources are deployed, for example during the early spring to maintain ferry crossing, during the crab fishery and during the seal hunt. That is the role of the Canadain Coast guard.

    We can argue all day about these points but this remains true: the Canadain seal hunt is a prime fund raiser for all these groups, it is easy and safe, the white coat, which is no longer hunted, is the perfect poster boy, it is easy to organize a protest anywhere and any time with a few white sheets, a can of red paint and a 30 year old picture of a sealer and list goes on and on. While SSCS, PETA, HSUS etc ignore the seal hunt in Namabia ( which this year will harvest more seals than Canada) because it is a dangerous place to protest and has poor potential for raising funds, they ignore the six species of seals that are on the endangered list, and they select issues of opportunity.

  • David

    I support all of the non-violent activities for people to protest acts that they feel are wrong. I see no rationale for blowing up things, ramming ships, throwing noxious chemicals on people.

    Do I personally support whaling? No, I can’t think of anything that makes me happier than to sail my boat and have dolphins swimming along with me. I do not see them as food. I can’t imagine wanting to hurt them. I love seeing the turtles that I encounter. I cannot imagine wanting to kill them. Do I say that the Inuit should be unable to eat the seals that have supported them since before written history? I will not pass judgement on them just as I don’t expect the Hindu’s to bomb the slaughterhouses for the piece of brisket that I had for lunch. I don’t expect the Muslim’s to ram a truck full of pigs to protest the bacon I had with my breakfast.

    We, as a species, have become very divorced from the killing that happens as part of our eating. It is something that happens elsewhere. Meat is something that you buy at the grocery store and not something that you go out and kill, skin, and cut up into manageable pieces. We find the deaths disturbing when we see it. That is a byproduct of civilization.

  • AnimuX

    romika3 Says: “While SSCS, PETA, HSUS etc ignore the seal hunt in Namabia ( which this year will harvest more seals than Canada) because it is a dangerous place to protest and has poor potential for raising funds”
    ———————
    https://secure.peta.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=793

    “Help PETA Stop a Barbaric Baby Seal Slaughter” – “The second-largest slaughter of marine mammals in the world is about to start just off the southern coast of Africa in Namibia. Namibia is the only country in the world that still allows the killing of nursing baby seals. ”
    ——————–
    http://www.hsicanada.ca/press_room/namibia_attack.html

    “Humane Society International Condemns Namibian Seal Slaughter and Attack on Observers”
    ——————–
    http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/editorila-090825-1.html

    “Some Canadian Senators and staffers decided to take a two-day visit to Namibia recently to indulge in a little bit of seal puppy snuff porn on the beaches of that country, where they joyfully observed and applauded the cruel slaughter of new born South African fur seal pups. They applauded as the baby seals lay writhing in agony in pools of blood and gore on the beaches as Namibian sealers laughed and posed for pictures for the Senators.”
    ——————–
    2009: “A British investigative journalist and his South African cameraman have today been violently assaulted by seal hunters and arrested by police while documenting the controversial Namibian seal hunt. The incident happened in the Cape Cross Seal Reserve, Western Namibia.” – WSPA (World Society for the Protection of Animals)
    ——————–
    So nobody is paying attention to Namibia eh?

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Do I say that the Inuit should be unable to eat the seals that have supported them since before written history? I will not pass judgement on them…”
    ——————
    How do you feel about the Canadian businesses (not Inuit) and others around the world that beat seals to death for the fashion industry?

  • David

    I have had one piece of seal fur in my life that was a gift from a friend in Alaska. A pair of balls on a string child’s toy. I would be more than happy to explain my entire views on life and the universe with you, however, the topic of this forum right now is the violent activities of Sea Shepherd.

    Would you support the Hindus sabotaging the beef industry with violence? Do you support anti-abortionists bombing health clinics? Do you support the Taliban’s violence to enforce their beliefs? Do you support violence in general or just that of the Sea Shepherds?

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “I will not pass judgement on them just as I don’t expect the Hindu’s to bomb the slaughterhouses for the piece of brisket that I had for lunch. I don’t expect the Muslim’s to ram a truck full of pigs to protest the bacon I had with my breakfast.”
    —————–
    Would you pass judgment on China for allowing industrial pollution to poison rivers (and as a result lots of people)?

    It’s not about telling people what to eat. That’s yet another ‘emotional’ argument put forth by those who campaign against environmental activism.

  • David

    Please answer my question. Do you support violence in general or just that of Sea Shepherds? You are here supporting their violent tactics. You seem to think that their acts are justified. Is every group that advocates violence justified? Where do you draw the line?

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Please answer my question. Do you support violence in general or just that of Sea Shepherds?”
    ——————
    It all depends on the circumstances. Being ex-military, I can see the need for violence in defense of ones self and nation (I am not a pacifist). However, there are limits that all societies should embrace. Generally, I believe government use of violence must be extremely limited in favor of protecting basic human rights. In circumstances where the boundaries of society do not overlap offenses that must be dealt with, such as park wardens in remote territory that must violently deal with poachers, it may not be possible to avoid use of deadly force.

    So you can say I believe in measured violence. However, in my opinion there is an extreme difference between violence against people and acts of vandalism.

    Shooting a plastic target or a glass bottle is not equivalent to shooting a human being.

    Shooting the tires out of a bank robber’s get-away car is not the same as assault with a deadly weapon.

    Throwing a stink bomb at a boat is not the same as blowing up a bus full of people.

    Placing chains on the props of a whaling ship, in port, to delay its departure is not an act of terrorism.

  • David

    Ok, you draw the line at what you personally feel justified. I am glad that the world is not using the same arbitrary rules. Every example you used was in reflection of the governments use of force. We have laws marking the boundaries. You feel that your boundaries should supersede the law in this case. Working within the system and getting the laws changed is just too much trouble. Its ok to break the law if you feel it is more expedient. Personally, I draw the line before using explosives, ramming ships, and throwing noxious chemicals. So does the rest of the civilized world. I guess we will just have to differ.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Personally, I draw the line before using explosives, ramming ships, and throwing noxious chemicals. So does the rest of the civilized world.”
    ——————
    Unless it’s the HMS Falmouth ramming an Icelandic ship in a dispute over fishing rights?

    Unless it’s riot control police firing tear gas into a crowd of political dissidents?

    Unless it’s a SWAT team using charges to force open a door or flashbangs to clear a room?

    The fact is, in the case of whaling, whaling nations proceed in violating and subverting internationally established regulations. (And pirate whaling where front companies operated completely outside of the international regulatory body)

    In the case of Blue Fin Tuna, fishing outside of seasonal limits and quotas is also a violation of internationally established regulations.

    Sea Shepherd is attempting to enforce adherence to regulations and protect wildlife from destructive industry practices.

  • David

    “Sea Shepherd is attempting to enforce adherence to regulations and protect wildlife from destructive industry practices.”

    Through use of illegal violence. Outside the law. I am not going to waver from that. Legal violence under the rule of law is different from vigilante violence. I honestly would have no trouble with the navy coming up and torpedoing illegal fishing boats taking down all aboard if the law was to do such. That would be the risk they take when they chose to break the law and those consequences were in place.

    Sea Shepherds has no legal standing to commit their acts of violence. It is a violent vigilante group acting outside the law.

  • AnimuX

    David Says: “Sea Shepherds has no legal standing to commit their acts of violence. It is a violent vigilante group acting outside the law.”
    —————–
    As it stands, there is no “law enforcement” entity in charge of enforcing any international law in international waters.

    If you recognize the area the whalers operate in as part of the Australian Antarctic EEZ then the whalers are in violation of Australian national laws and in contempt of the Australian Federal Court.

    If you don’t recognize the area as Australian territory then Sea Shepherd has as much right as anyone else to attempt to enforce international regulations according to the World Charter for Nature.

    “21. States and, to the extent they are able, other public authorities, international organizations, individuals, groups and corporations shall:

    (c) Implement the applicable international legal provisions for the conservation of nature and the protection of the environment;

    (d) Ensure that activities within their jurisdictions or control do not cause damage to the natural systems located within other States or in the areas beyond the limits of national jurisdiction;

    (e) Safeguard and conserve nature in areas beyond national jurisdiction.”

    And once again, you contend that the group is a “violent” vigilante group now, instead of terrorist or pirate or any number of labels with a connotation of negativity intended to demonize the group.

    (A supposedly violent group that doesn’t beat people up or kill people…)

    Vigilante: “: a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate)”

    Suppress, yes. Punish? Not quite.

  • David

    The World Charter for Nature does not supersede all other international law such as COLREGs.
    Ships in port are not beyond limits of national jurisdiction.
    The seal hunting grounds of Canada are not beyond the limits of national jurisdiction.
    The World Charter for Nature does not say anyone can ignore all other laws to achieve these ends. The international legal community does not recognize that Sea Shepherds has been acting under any authority. This opinion is also shared by the vast majority of conservation groups. It is not just my opinion.

  • Farmerstoys

    Captain Paul Watson,

    I laugh when they say you are not a Captain, how ignorant can one person be.

    Lets see you have been on the sea for most of your adult life. So this means your not a Captain so your insurance company does not care ????
    This guy could not pilot a row boat.

    I think you are doing a great job I admire the risks you have taken to protect the planet.

    Good luck and SCREW the CRY BABIES !!

  • David

    AnimuX:

    I would honestly like to thank you for the switch to thoughtful argument over the canned responses. We will disagree on many points but the civil portion of our discussion has been enjoyable. I am not so stupid as to not see the ridiculous lack of international policing of the oceans. We agree on probably almost all points of the goals of the conservationists. I even think that there are times when civil disobedience is a necessary tool to achieve goals. You prefer the direct interdiction. I can see where that might be easier to see some immediate results. I prefer the slower but more permanent changing of the laws from within. We both want the same results of making a better world than the one we were stuck with.

    I have to get stuff in order for the work week and get some rest. Have a good night. See you later in this or the next thread.

  • romika3

    AmimuX: “How do you feel about the Canadian businesses (not Inuit) and others around the world that beat seals to death for the fashion industry?” Here is another myth that you, SSCS, PETA and all the other groups are fixated on, seals are no longer clubbed but you want to beleive. This spring HSUS made one trip east, shot some video and left out the first portion, sealers shooting seals. Then only show the sealers hitting the seals to make sure they are dead and dragging them to the boat. They want to perputuate the myth that Canadain Seals are stilled clubbed becuase its the money maker.

  • AnimuX

    romika3 Says: “Then only show the sealers hitting the seals to make sure they are dead and dragging them to the boat.”
    ———————
    HSUS vids that I’ve seen for the most recent season showed both shooting and clubbing not just one or the other. This included seals shot and bleeding while writhing about and attempting to escape. Some dropping into the water after being wounded and not resurfacing. Some shot, then clubbed repeatedly but still moving. The video from past and present hunts is what it is.

  • Godot339

    Watson is not listening, he care’s not for anyone’s opinion but his own. Remember He carry’s no official captains credentials, so is not entitled to the title of “Captain”

    watson claims a great deal, but research what he claims, you will find nearly all of it to be lie’s.

    As for animux, He follows one of watsons mantras “If you don’t know the facts, make it up!”

  • romika3

    Godot339 . Yes, he does not have his captian’s ticket and therefore using “captain” before his name is a lie. Just like me and you using “Dr” before ours when we are not doctors. There is no difference. A few years ago, when he was off the North East Coast of Canada on the Farley Mowet, we heard him on the VHF. An embarassement and a disgrace to the title of “captain”

  • Godot339

    @animux.

    If you do speak to watson , ask him what happened to the flags and names of ships he once so proudly displayed on the bridge of the Steve Irwin? Kinda late to cover up so much bragging.

    They were so evident before the SI sailed on this latest fiasco? To little , To late again .

  • Dr. Shanti

    Animux,

    Animals die in horrible ways – ask anyone who works on a factory farm. You guys say that whales and seals die horrible deaths, but it’s no more horrible that what other animals go through on beef and pork farms. Before you go off and say that they die humane deaths – think again.

    Animal harvesting, be it seals, pigs, cows, dolphins, and yes, whales, is rife with the most heinous cruelty. What makes the seal hunt worse than life and death on a factory pig farm? This is the place where baby pigs are killed routinely by swinging them around and smashing them into objects, and then letting the suffer, for hours sometimes, while they die with all their bones broken. The lucky ones die right away, the less-fortunate ones can take hours and die where they lie, or in the trash cans that they were thrown in.

    Large hogs are beaten, and then dragged, or made to crawl on their own broken legs, to waiting forklifts and then chains are put around their necks and then lifted up to be strangled slowly, writhing in agony. Is this a rare thing? No, it happens every day.

    Paulie Fatson told you that they don’t suffer like the whales and dolphins do, and he’s right – the hogs and cows actually suffer more. I’ve been to factory farms many times, but I’ll wager you haven’t. Don’t bother with the rebuttal unless you have actually been to such places and can debate it without googling anything.

    So, what is the difference between a seal getting clubbed to death and the above? The difference is that the hogs suffer longer, and more greatly, and that it goes on all year long – not just during a “season”. Ever go deer hunting? I have. Sometimes the shot isn’t a “kill-shot” and the deer manages to scramble away, sometimes for miles while its tracked. Hunting is what it is – there will be blood, and lots of it. The whole Taiji thing? No real surprise there either – just like a slaughterhouse where rivers of blood flow all day, every day. You like dolphins because you think they are cute, smart, and have a human-like smile plastered on their faces. What makes a hog less of a “majestic” and cute animal as compared to a dolphin? Nothing. Hogs make great, friendly companions, like dogs, and being smarter than dogs, can be trained to perform countless tasks. But we still eat them because it’s part of our culture. Who are you to complain about Canadians hunting and harvesting seals? You’re nobody – get used to it.

    You’re great at googling crud, and that’s what you did best on the SS forum – just regurgitate your crud every two minutes. So, you come on here and spew your nonsense, and hide when presented with the facts, just like your dumb friends, Lenzabi, and Imaufo.

    By the way, ramming ships is considered violence, throwing bottles of chemicals is considered violence. Your great at googling definitions – try googling that. Here, let me do it for you….

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/violence

    You’re passionate, I’ll give you that, but you’re also horribly misguided. You only saw what Paul Watson wanted you to see. But, the situation has changed hasn’t it – you’re supposed comfort group has rejected you. Your forum got shut down, and your buddy Donovan is at odds with the very person you worship as a god these days. It must make you proud that you’re one of the reasons the SS forum got shut down, huh? You should do yourself a favor and support Greenpeace instead, at least they’re unified in their vision, and not split into kindergarten factions like you fools. They actually stand for something other than themselves, and making money.

    I’ll tell you what we’ve been told – get a life. You spent every waking minute googling the stupidest and most obscure links and posting them proudly, not even knowing that you were just pissing off the higher-ups on the forum. What a waste of time. So, for you – get a life.

  • AnimuX

    Dr. Shanti Says: [A load of BS]
    ——————————————-
    First of all, comparing whaling to farming is completely ignorant of the reality of the whaling industry.

    1) Whales are not farm animals. They’re not raised under controlled conditions for the human food supply. They’re wild animals and are subject to many environmental pressures. There is no guarantee that any population of whales will survive from one year to the next. Every day whales face threats in the wild: pollution such as rubbish and chemicals, ship strikes, climate change effects on food sources, human over-fishing of prey species for animal feed and other products, and of course whaling.

    2) No farm in the industrialized world would allow the farmers to gut shoot an animal and then drag it backwards into a pool of water to drown. (At least no farm following regulations.)

    3) Unlike the food supply produced by farms and slaughterhouses, there are no safety measures in place to protect people from the contaminated meat of whales and dolphins. This can best be illustrated in places like Japan and the Faroes where medical tests have shown people are exposed to high concentrations of methyl mercury built up in dolphin and pilot whale meat. Mercury, PCBs, DDT derrivatives, Chromium and other toxic chemicals are commonly found in the meat of whales. Of course, unlike cattle where animals observed behaving strangely are separated from the food supply to avoid problems like Mad Cow disease, no such observations are made of whales.
    ————————–
    Dr. Shanti Says: “Ever go deer hunting? I have.”
    ————————–
    Just as whaling is nothing like farming, it is also absolutely nothing like hunting deer.

    Now if WalMart or some other large company went rampaging through an open field driving deer from fast moving tanks…

    …shooting them with spear guns and then dragging them into a pond to drown

    …taking hundreds of them in one go from the same hunting ground in one season

    …THEN deer hunting might resemble whaling.

    OR maybe you meant deer hunting was like the sealing industry?

    If hunters got together in trucks to shoot baby deer by the thousands from the back of a moving vehicle…

    …then finished off wounded animals by bludgeoning them to death with a club

    …sometimes skinning the baby deer alive in their haste to get as many skins as possible

    …only to leave the rotting carcass in most cases because there is little to no market for the meat and the skin is profitable for the fashion industry

    …THEN hunting deer might resemble sealing.
    ————————-
    What I find most entertaining is this false perception that I had anything to do with SSCS through these ‘forums’ continually mentioned by pro-whalers lately.

    The ‘forums’ are back online, by the way. :-)

    And I wasn’t posting there for SSCS or any other organization. However, the information I posted, which concerned all manner of issues about whaling, sealing, over-fishing, marine pollution and more, was not extreme animal rights propaganda.

    It was simply news about real world events. Unfortunately, some people are too busy writing up their next personal-attack filled rant in the ongoing negative campaign against environmental activism to bother to read and learn.

  • MSG L

    I just love reading posts from people like this. What a bunch of whiners!! The world stomps their little feet and asks japan to stop killing whales. japan gives the world the finger and says stay out of our business. The world cries “stop that” and japan gives the world the finger. Killing and eating Whales is like cannabalisim, slavery, and honour killing. It used to be acceptable BUT NOT ANYMORE. Someone must take a stand. Someone must stand between the harpoon and the prey, be it whale, dolphin, or tuna. It is not the Cheerleader whiners, it’s “Save the Ocean, and Save the World”. You bitch like little girls about how bad SSCS is and all the little short comings they may have. SSCS is out there working every day to protect and defend. What impact are you making? Get out from behind your monitor and spend six months at sea doing the planet a service. DO SOMETHING and stop your whining. Or you can sit right there in front of your computer and whine and complain.

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