1) Whales are not farm animals. They’re not raised under controlled conditions for the human food supply. They’re wild animals and are subject to many environmental pressures. There is no guarantee that any population of whales will survive from one year to the next. Every day whales face threats in the wild: pollution such as rubbish and chemicals, ship strikes, climate change effects on food sources, human over-fishing of prey species for animal feed and other products, and of course whaling.

2) No farm in the industrialized world would allow the farmers to gut shoot an animal and then drag it backwards into a pool of water to drown. (At least no farm following regulations.)

3) Unlike the food supply produced by farms and slaughterhouses, there are no safety measures in place to protect people from the contaminated meat of whales and dolphins. This can best be illustrated in places like Japan and the Faroes where medical tests have shown people are exposed to high concentrations of methyl mercury built up in dolphin and pilot whale meat. Mercury, PCBs, DDT derrivatives, Chromium and other toxic chemicals are commonly found in the meat of whales. Of course, unlike cattle where animals observed behaving strangely are separated from the food supply to avoid problems like Mad Cow disease, no such observations are made of whales.
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Dr. Shanti Says: “Ever go deer hunting? I have.”
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Just as whaling is nothing like farming, it is also absolutely nothing like hunting deer.

Now if WalMart or some other large company went rampaging through an open field driving deer from fast moving tanks…

…shooting them with spear guns and then dragging them into a pond to drown

…taking hundreds of them in one go from the same hunting ground in one season

…THEN deer hunting might resemble whaling.

OR maybe you meant deer hunting was like the sealing industry?

If hunters got together in trucks to shoot baby deer by the thousands from the back of a moving vehicle…

…then finished off wounded animals by bludgeoning them to death with a club

…sometimes skinning the baby deer alive in their haste to get as many skins as possible

…only to leave the rotting carcass in most cases because there is little to no market for the meat and the skin is profitable for the fashion industry

…THEN hunting deer might resemble sealing.
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What I find most entertaining is this false perception that I had anything to do with SSCS through these ‘forums’ continually mentioned by pro-whalers lately.

The ‘forums’ are back online, by the way. :-)

And I wasn’t posting there for SSCS or any other organization. However, the information I posted, which concerned all manner of issues about whaling, sealing, over-fishing, marine pollution and more, was not extreme animal rights propaganda.

It was simply news about real world events. Unfortunately, some people are too busy writing up their next personal-attack filled rant in the ongoing negative campaign against environmental activism to bother to read and learn.

Animals die in horrible ways – ask anyone who works on a factory farm. You guys say that whales and seals die horrible deaths, but it’s no more horrible that what other animals go through on beef and pork farms. Before you go off and say that they die humane deaths – think again.

Animal harvesting, be it seals, pigs, cows, dolphins, and yes, whales, is rife with the most heinous cruelty. What makes the seal hunt worse than life and death on a factory pig farm? This is the place where baby pigs are killed routinely by swinging them around and smashing them into objects, and then letting the suffer, for hours sometimes, while they die with all their bones broken. The lucky ones die right away, the less-fortunate ones can take hours and die where they lie, or in the trash cans that they were thrown in.

Large hogs are beaten, and then dragged, or made to crawl on their own broken legs, to waiting forklifts and then chains are put around their necks and then lifted up to be strangled slowly, writhing in agony. Is this a rare thing? No, it happens every day.

Paulie Fatson told you that they don’t suffer like the whales and dolphins do, and he’s right – the hogs and cows actually suffer more. I’ve been to factory farms many times, but I’ll wager you haven’t. Don’t bother with the rebuttal unless you have actually been to such places and can debate it without googling anything.

So, what is the difference between a seal getting clubbed to death and the above? The difference is that the hogs suffer longer, and more greatly, and that it goes on all year long – not just during a “season”. Ever go deer hunting? I have. Sometimes the shot isn’t a “kill-shot” and the deer manages to scramble away, sometimes for miles while its tracked. Hunting is what it is – there will be blood, and lots of it. The whole Taiji thing? No real surprise there either – just like a slaughterhouse where rivers of blood flow all day, every day. You like dolphins because you think they are cute, smart, and have a human-like smile plastered on their faces. What makes a hog less of a “majestic” and cute animal as compared to a dolphin? Nothing. Hogs make great, friendly companions, like dogs, and being smarter than dogs, can be trained to perform countless tasks. But we still eat them because it’s part of our culture. Who are you to complain about Canadians hunting and harvesting seals? You’re nobody – get used to it.

You’re great at googling crud, and that’s what you did best on the SS forum – just regurgitate your crud every two minutes. So, you come on here and spew your nonsense, and hide when presented with the facts, just like your dumb friends, Lenzabi, and Imaufo.

By the way, ramming ships is considered violence, throwing bottles of chemicals is considered violence. Your great at googling definitions – try googling that. Here, let me do it for you….

http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/violence

You’re passionate, I’ll give you that, but you’re also horribly misguided. You only saw what Paul Watson wanted you to see. But, the situation has changed hasn’t it – you’re supposed comfort group has rejected you. Your forum got shut down, and your buddy Donovan is at odds with the very person you worship as a god these days. It must make you proud that you’re one of the reasons the SS forum got shut down, huh? You should do yourself a favor and support Greenpeace instead, at least they’re unified in their vision, and not split into kindergarten factions like you fools. They actually stand for something other than themselves, and making money.

I’ll tell you what we’ve been told – get a life. You spent every waking minute googling the stupidest and most obscure links and posting them proudly, not even knowing that you were just pissing off the higher-ups on the forum. What a waste of time. So, for you – get a life.

If you do speak to watson , ask him what happened to the flags and names of ships he once so proudly displayed on the bridge of the Steve Irwin? Kinda late to cover up so much bragging.

They were so evident before the SI sailed on this latest fiasco? To little , To late again .

watson claims a great deal, but research what he claims, you will find nearly all of it to be lie’s.

As for animux, He follows one of watsons mantras “If you don’t know the facts, make it up!”

I would honestly like to thank you for the switch to thoughtful argument over the canned responses. We will disagree on many points but the civil portion of our discussion has been enjoyable. I am not so stupid as to not see the ridiculous lack of international policing of the oceans. We agree on probably almost all points of the goals of the conservationists. I even think that there are times when civil disobedience is a necessary tool to achieve goals. You prefer the direct interdiction. I can see where that might be easier to see some immediate results. I prefer the slower but more permanent changing of the laws from within. We both want the same results of making a better world than the one we were stuck with.

I have to get stuff in order for the work week and get some rest. Have a good night. See you later in this or the next thread.

I laugh when they say you are not a Captain, how ignorant can one person be.

Lets see you have been on the sea for most of your adult life. So this means your not a Captain so your insurance company does not care ????
This guy could not pilot a row boat.

I think you are doing a great job I admire the risks you have taken to protect the planet.

Good luck and SCREW the CRY BABIES !!

If you recognize the area the whalers operate in as part of the Australian Antarctic EEZ then the whalers are in violation of Australian national laws and in contempt of the Australian Federal Court.

If you don’t recognize the area as Australian territory then Sea Shepherd has as much right as anyone else to attempt to enforce international regulations according to the World Charter for Nature.

“21. States and, to the extent they are able, other public authorities, international organizations, individuals, groups and corporations shall:

(c) Implement the applicable international legal provisions for the conservation of nature and the protection of the environment;

(d) Ensure that activities within their jurisdictions or control do not cause damage to the natural systems located within other States or in the areas beyond the limits of national jurisdiction;

(e) Safeguard and conserve nature in areas beyond national jurisdiction.”

And once again, you contend that the group is a “violent” vigilante group now, instead of terrorist or pirate or any number of labels with a connotation of negativity intended to demonize the group.

(A supposedly violent group that doesn’t beat people up or kill people…)

Vigilante: “: a member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of law are viewed as inadequate)”

Suppress, yes. Punish? Not quite.

Through use of illegal violence. Outside the law. I am not going to waver from that. Legal violence under the rule of law is different from vigilante violence. I honestly would have no trouble with the navy coming up and torpedoing illegal fishing boats taking down all aboard if the law was to do such. That would be the risk they take when they chose to break the law and those consequences were in place.

Sea Shepherds has no legal standing to commit their acts of violence. It is a violent vigilante group acting outside the law.

Unless it’s riot control police firing tear gas into a crowd of political dissidents?

Unless it’s a SWAT team using charges to force open a door or flashbangs to clear a room?

The fact is, in the case of whaling, whaling nations proceed in violating and subverting internationally established regulations. (And pirate whaling where front companies operated completely outside of the international regulatory body)

In the case of Blue Fin Tuna, fishing outside of seasonal limits and quotas is also a violation of internationally established regulations.

Sea Shepherd is attempting to enforce adherence to regulations and protect wildlife from destructive industry practices.

So you can say I believe in measured violence. However, in my opinion there is an extreme difference between violence against people and acts of vandalism.

Shooting a plastic target or a glass bottle is not equivalent to shooting a human being.

Shooting the tires out of a bank robber’s get-away car is not the same as assault with a deadly weapon.

Throwing a stink bomb at a boat is not the same as blowing up a bus full of people.

Placing chains on the props of a whaling ship, in port, to delay its departure is not an act of terrorism.

It’s not about telling people what to eat. That’s yet another ‘emotional’ argument put forth by those who campaign against environmental activism.

Would you support the Hindus sabotaging the beef industry with violence? Do you support anti-abortionists bombing health clinics? Do you support the Taliban’s violence to enforce their beliefs? Do you support violence in general or just that of the Sea Shepherds?

“Help PETA Stop a Barbaric Baby Seal Slaughter” – “The second-largest slaughter of marine mammals in the world is about to start just off the southern coast of Africa in Namibia. Namibia is the only country in the world that still allows the killing of nursing baby seals. ”
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http://www.hsicanada.ca/press_room/namibia_attack.html

“Humane Society International Condemns Namibian Seal Slaughter and Attack on Observers”
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http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/editorila-090825-1.html

“Some Canadian Senators and staffers decided to take a two-day visit to Namibia recently to indulge in a little bit of seal puppy snuff porn on the beaches of that country, where they joyfully observed and applauded the cruel slaughter of new born South African fur seal pups. They applauded as the baby seals lay writhing in agony in pools of blood and gore on the beaches as Namibian sealers laughed and posed for pictures for the Senators.”
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2009: “A British investigative journalist and his South African cameraman have today been violently assaulted by seal hunters and arrested by police while documenting the controversial Namibian seal hunt. The incident happened in the Cape Cross Seal Reserve, Western Namibia.” – WSPA (World Society for the Protection of Animals)
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So nobody is paying attention to Namibia eh?

Do I personally support whaling? No, I can’t think of anything that makes me happier than to sail my boat and have dolphins swimming along with me. I do not see them as food. I can’t imagine wanting to hurt them. I love seeing the turtles that I encounter. I cannot imagine wanting to kill them. Do I say that the Inuit should be unable to eat the seals that have supported them since before written history? I will not pass judgement on them just as I don’t expect the Hindu’s to bomb the slaughterhouses for the piece of brisket that I had for lunch. I don’t expect the Muslim’s to ram a truck full of pigs to protest the bacon I had with my breakfast.

We, as a species, have become very divorced from the killing that happens as part of our eating. It is something that happens elsewhere. Meat is something that you buy at the grocery store and not something that you go out and kill, skin, and cut up into manageable pieces. We find the deaths disturbing when we see it. That is a byproduct of civilization.

“I also sincerely doubt licensing, inspection and media relations would be necessary for a non-existent hunt. Much less flying politicians around on junkets to fight international bans on seal products.” The mangement of marine resources is integrated and all fisheries are supported. The same applies to the management of terrestrial resources. Licenses fees, taxs on fuels, income tax paid by fishermen etc support the system.

There are many cases where extra coast guard resources are deployed, for example during the early spring to maintain ferry crossing, during the crab fishery and during the seal hunt. That is the role of the Canadain Coast guard.

We can argue all day about these points but this remains true: the Canadain seal hunt is a prime fund raiser for all these groups, it is easy and safe, the white coat, which is no longer hunted, is the perfect poster boy, it is easy to organize a protest anywhere and any time with a few white sheets, a can of red paint and a 30 year old picture of a sealer and list goes on and on. While SSCS, PETA, HSUS etc ignore the seal hunt in Namabia ( which this year will harvest more seals than Canada) because it is a dangerous place to protest and has poor potential for raising funds, they ignore the six species of seals that are on the endangered list, and they select issues of opportunity.

AnimuX Says: Not true. Extra Coast Guard resources are, in fact, deployed specifically to support the seal hunt.
This would be the part where you’ve revealed you’re not just “anti-Sea Shepherd” by expressing support for the industries Sea Shepherd and other organizations oppose. ;-)

Supporting the coast guard is supporting industries? That is foolish. The coast guard will even save Sea Shepherds when they wreck their boats and investigate the violent crimes of Sea Shepherds. They save lives, interdict smugglers, and provide numerous well defined benefits to society. They are not some kind of safety guard for supporting seal hunters. They will even arrest people fishing illegally. Lots of other licensing is done by the same facilities. Seal hunting is not the only activity that they require licensing for. That is like saying that if they don’t issue motorcycle licenses, they will shut down the department of motor vehicles.

As for the politicians, being politicians, they will find somewhere to fly and some camera to get in front of. No helping that.

Sorry to ruin your false sense of “revealing me.” I am not the one being inconsistent and trying to find some support for an unsupportable position. I am not trying to justify Sea Shepherd’s violence or killing seals. I am merely pointing out that your logic is seriously flawed and should not be unchallenged.

This would be the part where you’ve revealed you’re not just “anti-Sea Shepherd” by expressing support for the industries Sea Shepherd and other organizations oppose. ;-)
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David Says: “All of which will be in place regardless of a seal hunt.”
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AnimuX Says: I also sincerely doubt licensing, inspection and media relations would be necessary for a non-existent hunt. Much less flying politicians around on junkets to fight international bans on seal products.
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romika3 Says: “Sorry buddy but your logic is that of a desperate man and a desperate organization attempting to justify what they are doing.”
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AnimuX Says: The logic is quite simple. The seal hunt is cruel and unnecessary and exists primarily to supply the pelts of thousands of wild animals, only weeks old, to manufacturers for decorative luxury items. Despite popular national and international rejection of the hunt a small minority of business and political interests keep it going. Thankfully, the EU and other nations have banned commercial sale of seal products and will bring about an end to the hunt with the help of organizations like Sea Shepherd, the Humane Society, PETA, IFAW and others.

“Now indirect government spending on the seal hunt continues to include the cost of sending the coast guard out with icebreakers, helicopters, patrol planes and rescue crews”

That is just silly. These services are not there to support the seal hunt. Those services will be in place regardless. You might just as well add in the price for the stop lights and roads to that they will use to get to the ocean, maintaining lighthouses, and throw in the satellites for navigation as well.

“all of the government personnel needed to support the bureaucratic side of the hunt (licensing, inspection, scientists, media relations, etc)”

All of which will be in place regardless of a seal hunt.

And you complain that others overstate things.

Be realistic.

This cannot possibly be a serious comment! How can this ignorance/mentality exist in todays world. You cannot equate efforts to catch marine animals to feed human beings with any of the above humanity issues.

I have seen the PETA absurdity, but this type of comment is beyond this and reality.

Wait, you have made a mistake.

“AnimuX Says: This is correct. I do not represent (nor have I ever represented) Sea Shepherd in any capacity. I’m not a member or an organizer.”

He is then just either a troll or has some kind of odd mental complex. He is just here defending organizations that he is not even a member of. He doesn’t even believe in them enough to join them.

I know, it doesn’t make any sense to me either. Go figure.

Why isn’t he out with them “putting up the good fight”? It is easy to sit in front of a computer rationalizing their violence and pasting pre-written nonsense. He could hop on a plane and get over there. His inaction is killing whales. His inaction is allowing the devastation and rape of the environment. Every keystroke he types could be putting holes in ships, destroying drag nets, and throwing “stink bombs”. He could be out fund raising and fueling up the Steve Irwin.

He spends countless hours defending them but he is not out there on the front lines helping. How can he live himself? At least one or two whales could have been saved in the time he have spent here spewing rhetoric in this thread alone instead of actually doing anything. He can sit in front of his computer and feel so good about all the “good he has done for his cause.”

Of course all his hard work will do is to further marginalize these violent jerks.
Well, maybe he is doing some good after all.

Sea Shepherd does not go out and cause damage to people’s homes or people’s cars or the windows on either.

Sea Shepherd interferes with industries that violate international regulations and in some cases damages the tools used by these industries. This includes illegally deployed fishing nets, whaling ships and more. This does not include an individual’s personal home or personal vehicle. It definitely does NOT include any sort of attempt to beat up or kill any people.