Comments on: LHC’s Lack of Black Holes Rules Out Some Versions of String Theory http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/ 80beats is DISCOVER's news aggregator, weaving together the choicest tidbits from the best articles covering the day's most compelling topics. Tue, 22 May 2012 17:56:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: e cig http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-835116 e cig Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:44:45 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-835116 any words of advice for a newbie Arizer owner like myself? any words of advice for a newbie Arizer owner like myself?

]]> By: Tissa Perera http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-562427 Tissa Perera Mon, 03 Jan 2011 14:48:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-562427 \Brian, I do not dismiss GR, I extend on GR like KK did. But unfortunately KK ended up to believe in a compact 4th space dimension. I have written a simple solution and derived MOND without compactification. I published one whole article about this: See http://cosmicdarkmatter.com/Newtonian_Dynamics.html \Brian, I do not dismiss GR, I extend on GR like KK did. But unfortunately KK ended up
to believe in a compact 4th space dimension. I have written a simple solution and derived
MOND without compactification. I published one whole article about this:
See
http://cosmicdarkmatter.com/Newtonian_Dynamics.html

]]> By: Brian http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-551676 Brian Thu, 30 Dec 2010 12:38:21 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-551676 @Tissa: You should write this work up. I'm sure the community would be interested in reading about it. So let me get this straight. You question the existence of black holes because you have a problem with singularities, that nobody thinks actually exist anyway. You would rather postulate the existence of an extra spatial dimension than accept General Relativity -- a fantastically successful theory with substantial experimental support. How does your work differ from that of Kaluza-Klein? How might we distinguish your theory from GR? What are its predictions? Surely it must predict *something* different for the orbital behavior of bodies about the galactic center. @Tissa: You should write this work up. I’m sure the community would be interested in reading about it.

So let me get this straight. You question the existence of black holes because you have a problem with singularities, that nobody thinks actually exist anyway. You would rather postulate the existence of an extra spatial dimension than accept General Relativity — a fantastically successful theory with substantial experimental support.

How does your work differ from that of Kaluza-Klein? How might we distinguish your theory from GR? What are its predictions? Surely it must predict *something* different for the orbital behavior of bodies about the galactic center.

]]> By: Tissa Perera http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-540333 Tissa Perera Sun, 26 Dec 2010 17:15:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-540333 \Brian, you have to realize that almost all theoretical equations are derived with scant disregard to natural limitations or boundary conditions that may apply in nature. So when a so called BH solution is extracted it is given a fictitious reality of its own. And I disagree that black holes are discovered(or proved) any where like you believe, they are just inferred to exist so far. I have concluded that gravity force itself has a maximum natural limit, the 'g' force boundary, that would prevent BH formation in nature. I can account for the galactic center behavior by means of of an extra space dimension without speculating a SMBH. \Brian, you have to realize that almost all theoretical equations are derived with scant disregard to natural limitations or boundary conditions that may apply in nature. So when a so called BH solution is extracted it is given a fictitious reality of its own. And I disagree that black holes are discovered(or proved) any where like you believe, they are just inferred to exist so far.
I have concluded that gravity force itself has a maximum natural limit, the ‘g’ force boundary, that would prevent BH formation in nature. I can account for the galactic center behavior by means of of an extra space dimension without speculating a SMBH.

]]> By: Brian http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-523915 Brian Tue, 21 Dec 2010 12:42:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-523915 @George: How is trans dimensional unified field theory relevant to the experiments being carried out at the LHC? @George: How is trans dimensional unified field theory relevant to the experiments being carried out at the LHC?

]]> By: george james ducas http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-520245 george james ducas Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:56:29 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-520245 Here is the current update of trans dimensional unified field theory. You can access it on the internet at http://www.docstoc.com/docs/8424853/Trans-Dimensional-Unified-Field-Theory-82009 I also have a physics group at http://www.linkedin.com/groupInvitation?groupID=1931832&sharedKey=1141AE749569 Thank you. George James Ducas Here is the current update of trans dimensional unified field theory. You can access it on the internet at
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/8424853/Trans-Dimensional-Unified-Field-Theory-82009
I also have a physics group at
http://www.linkedin.com/groupInvitation?groupID=1931832&sharedKey=1141AE749569
Thank you.
George James Ducas

]]> By: Brian http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-519916 Brian Mon, 20 Dec 2010 14:28:56 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-519916 There is some misinformation in this article. It is patently false to say that string theory, or really any of its 'flavors', has been ruled out by this data. All string theories are necessarily multi-dimensional, not just some of its 'flavors' as this article indicates. The vast majority of string theories of interest are 10-dimensional theories. The crucial point is that string theory does not ascribe a size to these dimensions -- they are freely tunable parameters. All the LHC experiments have done is place an upper bound on this size. If the extra dimensions are large (say, ~ 1mm), then there are certain expectations about the production rate of black holes. If we don't see what's predicted in this case, the only conclusion one can make is that the extra dimensions must be smaller. That's all. In fact, some have argued that string theory has a difficult time with largish extra dimensions and so an absence of black holes at the LHC so far might lend circumstantial support for the theory. @Tissa: It's totally sensible to assert that singularities do not exist in nature. However, it is not correct to then conclude that black holes do not exist. The classical black hole solution in general relativity does indeed possess a singularity, however, it is widely understood that quantum effects will become relevant before the singularity is ever reached -- in other words, the classical solution has some quantum fuzziness to it. Black holes do exist -- we've discovered several at the centers of galaxies. There is some misinformation in this article. It is patently false to say that string theory, or really any of its ‘flavors’, has been ruled out by this data. All string theories are necessarily multi-dimensional, not just some of its ‘flavors’ as this article indicates. The vast majority of string theories of interest are 10-dimensional theories. The crucial point is that string theory does not ascribe a size to these dimensions — they are freely tunable parameters. All the LHC experiments have done is place an upper bound on this size. If the extra dimensions are large (say, ~ 1mm), then there are certain expectations about the production rate of black holes. If we don’t see what’s predicted in this case, the only conclusion one can make is that the extra dimensions must be smaller. That’s all. In fact, some have argued that string theory has a difficult time with largish extra dimensions and so an absence of black holes at the LHC so far might lend circumstantial support for the theory.

@Tissa: It’s totally sensible to assert that singularities do not exist in nature. However, it is not correct to then conclude that black holes do not exist. The classical black hole solution in general relativity does indeed possess a singularity, however, it is widely understood that quantum effects will become relevant before the singularity is ever reached — in other words, the classical solution has some quantum fuzziness to it. Black holes do exist — we’ve discovered several at the centers of galaxies.

]]> By: Karlin http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-517340 Karlin Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:34:01 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-517340 Ha!! I love to say "I told you so"... in fact, I live to say that. I don't "hate to say" it at all. Making the experiment fit the theory has only limited usefullness, as this LHC data shows. The gravity of gravy is wavy, so of course it hangs on a string theory in other dimensions. Ha!! I love to say “I told you so”… in fact, I live to say that. I don’t “hate to say” it at all.

Making the experiment fit the theory has only limited usefullness, as this LHC data shows.

The gravity of gravy is wavy, so of course it hangs on a string theory in other dimensions.

]]> By: Michael http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-514774 Michael Sun, 19 Dec 2010 06:15:27 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-514774 Have the Boffins searched the data before the collisions because theory suggests time violation within the event horizon meaning a collapse should spit matter out before hand. Have the Boffins searched the data before the collisions because theory suggests time violation within the event horizon meaning a collapse should spit matter out before hand.

]]> By: Michael http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-514649 Michael Sun, 19 Dec 2010 05:09:01 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-514649 The thing about black holes is that they are black (Holly: Red Dwarf) The thing about black holes is that they are black (Holly: Red Dwarf)

]]> By: Tissa Perera http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-512917 Tissa Perera Sat, 18 Dec 2010 15:14:55 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-512917 Simply, there cannot and will not be singularities of any kind in nature. Nature does not go into extremes like some would like to theorize. No BHs and no BBs. But there can exist at least one extra space dimension which can explain many as I have done. Simply, there cannot and will not be singularities of any kind in nature. Nature does not go into extremes like some would like to theorize. No BHs and no BBs. But there can exist at least one extra space dimension which can explain many as I have done.

]]> By: Sylwester Kornowski http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-512364 Sylwester Kornowski Sat, 18 Dec 2010 10:38:16 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-512364 Physicists do not understand gravity and origin of quantum physics. This leads to many wrong interpretations. Due to the faster-than-light particles (i.e. the tachyons and binary systems of closed strings) the quantum physics is local i.e. points separated spatially (for information moving with the speed of light) can communicate. The behaviour of the renewable particles (i.e. the photons and electrons in the Einstein spacetime and the pions in strong field) shows that the quantum physics is also real. Existence of the two spacetimes, i.e. the Newtonian spacetime (it is gas composed of tachyons) and Einstein spacetime (it is gas composed of non-rotating binary systems of neutrinos), leads to the classical interpretation of the quantum physics i.e. to the locality and reality of nature. The Everlasting Theory shows that there are not in existence gravitational black holes smaller than the neutron black holes (such black hole has mass 24.8 times the mass of the sun). There are in existence black holes with respect to the strong interactions (their radius is 0.7 femtometer, they are the cores of baryons – baryons have an atom-like structure) and black holes with respect to the weak interactions (their radius is in approximately 10^-17 m, they are the point masses in centers of the cores of baryons). Physicists do not understand also nature of the weak interactions. There are not in existence the Higgs boson(s). BTW: What physical phenomena lead to the DNA? Within the Everlasting Theory we can answer this question. Physicists do not understand gravity and origin of quantum physics. This leads to many wrong interpretations.
Due to the faster-than-light particles (i.e. the tachyons and binary systems of closed strings) the quantum physics is local i.e. points separated spatially (for information moving with the speed of light) can communicate. The behaviour of the renewable particles (i.e. the photons and electrons in the Einstein spacetime and the pions in strong field) shows that the quantum physics is also real. Existence of the two spacetimes, i.e. the Newtonian spacetime (it is gas composed of tachyons) and Einstein spacetime (it is gas composed of non-rotating binary systems of neutrinos), leads to the classical interpretation of the quantum physics i.e. to the locality and reality of nature.
The Everlasting Theory shows that there are not in existence gravitational black holes smaller than the neutron black holes (such black hole has mass 24.8 times the mass of the sun). There are in existence black holes with respect to the strong interactions (their radius is 0.7 femtometer, they are the cores of baryons – baryons have an atom-like structure) and black holes with respect to the weak interactions (their radius is in approximately 10^-17 m, they are the point masses in centers of the cores of baryons). Physicists do not understand also nature of the weak interactions. There are not in existence the Higgs boson(s).
BTW: What physical phenomena lead to the DNA? Within the Everlasting Theory we can answer this question.

]]> By: Brian Too http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2010/12/17/lhcs-lack-of-black-holes-rules-out-some-versions-of-string-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-511245 Brian Too Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:10:49 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=23953#comment-511245 So what does that leave us with? 5.0 x 10^499 possible solutions? So what does that leave us with? 5.0 x 10^499 possible solutions?

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