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	<title>Comments on: Exclusive: &#8220;Most Earth-Like&#8221; Exoplanet Gets Major Demotion—It Isn&#8217;t Habitable</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/</link>
	<description>80beats is DISCOVER&#039;s news aggregator, weaving together the choicest tidbits from the best articles covering the day&#039;s most compelling topics.</description>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-791165</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 07:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-791165</guid>
		<description>いつも楽しく見させていただいております
素敵なサイトですね
おもしろいです</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>いつも楽しく見させていただいております<br />
素敵なサイトですね<br />
おもしろいです</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-750511</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-750511</guid>
		<description>There is also the possibility that, if a planetary system&#039;s plane is perpendicular to our own, we wouldn&#039;t be able to see it at all, since the wobble in the primary&#039;s proper motion won&#039;t be in a plane that would produce a detectable red or blue shift.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also the possibility that, if a planetary system&#8217;s plane is perpendicular to our own, we wouldn&#8217;t be able to see it at all, since the wobble in the primary&#8217;s proper motion won&#8217;t be in a plane that would produce a detectable red or blue shift.</p>
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		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-714225</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Mar 2011 03:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-714225</guid>
		<description>It seems to me, if Roland is right about the distance of these possible planets from their suns, that it would be impossible for any of them to be cool enough to be habitable.  I mean, Mercury is really close (in our system), and it&#039;s way too hot; Venus is farther and has an atmosphere, but it&#039;s even hotter.  I don&#039;t think it&#039;s even remotely possible to have a planet with an orbit that small and have it be within bearable temperatures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me, if Roland is right about the distance of these possible planets from their suns, that it would be impossible for any of them to be cool enough to be habitable.  I mean, Mercury is really close (in our system), and it&#8217;s way too hot; Venus is farther and has an atmosphere, but it&#8217;s even hotter.  I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s even remotely possible to have a planet with an orbit that small and have it be within bearable temperatures.</p>
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		<title>By: Amos Zeeberg (Discover Web Editor)</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-709100</link>
		<dc:creator>Amos Zeeberg (Discover Web Editor)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Mar 2011 04:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-709100</guid>
		<description>@Jotaf: Well said.

@Roland: Huhn. I hadn&#039;t realized that the probability of seeing a close-in planet was as high as 10%. Do you have a reference for that? And your point about Kepler seeing the Sun as planet-less---very interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jotaf: Well said.</p>
<p>@Roland: Huhn. I hadn&#8217;t realized that the probability of seeing a close-in planet was as high as 10%. Do you have a reference for that? And your point about Kepler seeing the Sun as planet-less&#8212;very interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Roland Borrey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-699791</link>
		<dc:creator>Roland Borrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-699791</guid>
		<description>Most of the planets candidates discovered so far are close to their star (0.1 AU ,1AU is the earth distance to the sun) and there is a probability of around 10% that their orbits are aligned with our line of sight. Now we move further away, the probability of detection goes down with the distance of the planet to the star when w reach Mercury distance  of 0.4 AU with an orbit of 90 days it becomes 1.5%, Venus with distance of 0.7 AU, it becomes 1% and earth with 1 AU becomes 0.6%
They discovered 900 stars with  near planets in 150K stars meaning 9000 stars should have near planets.
If we stretch this for the greater distances and anticipate what Kepler will find over the next 2 years:
 We should remember since the Sun has no near planet, Kepler would still consider the Sun as a star without planets.
Assuming that the planets are distributed like in the solar system  (Kepler should prove or disprove this), it makes the number of stars a logarithmic function in relation of the distance, Kepler should discover another 900 stars having planets between o.1 AU and 1 AU , That would mean 12% total.
To be complete, we should find another 900 stars with planets between 1 and 10AU, but the Kepler mission will not have the time to detect these. Transit detection requires at least 3 orbits to detect a planet and the mission last only  3 years. That could mean a total of 18% of the stars have planets</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the planets candidates discovered so far are close to their star (0.1 AU ,1AU is the earth distance to the sun) and there is a probability of around 10% that their orbits are aligned with our line of sight. Now we move further away, the probability of detection goes down with the distance of the planet to the star when w reach Mercury distance  of 0.4 AU with an orbit of 90 days it becomes 1.5%, Venus with distance of 0.7 AU, it becomes 1% and earth with 1 AU becomes 0.6%<br />
They discovered 900 stars with  near planets in 150K stars meaning 9000 stars should have near planets.<br />
If we stretch this for the greater distances and anticipate what Kepler will find over the next 2 years:<br />
 We should remember since the Sun has no near planet, Kepler would still consider the Sun as a star without planets.<br />
Assuming that the planets are distributed like in the solar system  (Kepler should prove or disprove this), it makes the number of stars a logarithmic function in relation of the distance, Kepler should discover another 900 stars having planets between o.1 AU and 1 AU , That would mean 12% total.<br />
To be complete, we should find another 900 stars with planets between 1 and 10AU, but the Kepler mission will not have the time to detect these. Transit detection requires at least 3 orbits to detect a planet and the mission last only  3 years. That could mean a total of 18% of the stars have planets</p>
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		<title>By: Jotaf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-698868</link>
		<dc:creator>Jotaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 04:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-698868</guid>
		<description>@Joost: It&#039;s my understanding that manually validated candidates are &quot;Kepler exoplanets&quot;, and all others (thousands) are just referred to as &quot;candidates&quot;. They probably used an automated tool to estimate the brightness of the star. Since there was a nearby brighter star inside the software&#039;s search window, it skewed the results.

They are aware of these limitations and that&#039;s why there&#039;s a distinction between confirmed planets and candidates. Also, if they took the time to manually analyze all candidates we&#039;d still be waiting for the results. This way other people (like the Discover fact-checker or other astronomers) can comb the data for this kind of mistakes. And they could&#039;ve singled out this one and explained it in the paper -- but as many people know there&#039;s always a trade-off involved between space limits in a publication and the detail of the analysis you publish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Joost: It&#8217;s my understanding that manually validated candidates are &#8220;Kepler exoplanets&#8221;, and all others (thousands) are just referred to as &#8220;candidates&#8221;. They probably used an automated tool to estimate the brightness of the star. Since there was a nearby brighter star inside the software&#8217;s search window, it skewed the results.</p>
<p>They are aware of these limitations and that&#8217;s why there&#8217;s a distinction between confirmed planets and candidates. Also, if they took the time to manually analyze all candidates we&#8217;d still be waiting for the results. This way other people (like the Discover fact-checker or other astronomers) can comb the data for this kind of mistakes. And they could&#8217;ve singled out this one and explained it in the paper &#8212; but as many people know there&#8217;s always a trade-off involved between space limits in a publication and the detail of the analysis you publish.</p>
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		<title>By: Joost Schuur</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-698649</link>
		<dc:creator>Joost Schuur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 02:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-698649</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll admit to being a complete novice when it comes to exoplanetary astronomy and the tools and statistics involved here, but my first impression when I saw this story was that a &#039;popular&#039; science magazine like Discovery (and I&#039;m not trying to use that term in a derogatory way at all) caused the experts to reanalyze their results and almost immediately found a problem. How could this have slipped by so easily?

Even if the Kepler team was nowhere near ready to present their results as authoritative and final at all and only spoke of potential candidates, if any individual planet was elevated by the press the way KOI 326.01 was, should this have not caused them to go back on their own accord and recheck the numbers for that one in particular just in case? It&#039;s fine to argue that they don&#039;t have the resources to validate all their candidates at such an early stage, but they did have the ability to do it for one candidate, didn&#039;t they?

All this is just my gut reaction as a complete layman and grassroots space nut, but it&#039;s the first this that sprung to my mine and made me wonder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll admit to being a complete novice when it comes to exoplanetary astronomy and the tools and statistics involved here, but my first impression when I saw this story was that a &#8216;popular&#8217; science magazine like Discovery (and I&#8217;m not trying to use that term in a derogatory way at all) caused the experts to reanalyze their results and almost immediately found a problem. How could this have slipped by so easily?</p>
<p>Even if the Kepler team was nowhere near ready to present their results as authoritative and final at all and only spoke of potential candidates, if any individual planet was elevated by the press the way KOI 326.01 was, should this have not caused them to go back on their own accord and recheck the numbers for that one in particular just in case? It&#8217;s fine to argue that they don&#8217;t have the resources to validate all their candidates at such an early stage, but they did have the ability to do it for one candidate, didn&#8217;t they?</p>
<p>All this is just my gut reaction as a complete layman and grassroots space nut, but it&#8217;s the first this that sprung to my mine and made me wonder.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Too</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-696297</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Too</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Mar 2011 00:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-696297</guid>
		<description>Think about it.  The astronomers estimate that we are missing 99.5% of the planets in the Kepler sample, just because the planes of their orbits is not suitable for detection.  That&#039;s for planets in frame.

Then to build upon @14. Bruce, we are also missing every planet that has an orbital period &gt; 2 months.  That will get better with additional study time of course.  How many planets in our solar system have a year that is just 2 months or less?

Kepler is just skimming the surface, grabbing the &#039;easy&#039; detections!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think about it.  The astronomers estimate that we are missing 99.5% of the planets in the Kepler sample, just because the planes of their orbits is not suitable for detection.  That&#8217;s for planets in frame.</p>
<p>Then to build upon @14. Bruce, we are also missing every planet that has an orbital period &gt; 2 months.  That will get better with additional study time of course.  How many planets in our solar system have a year that is just 2 months or less?</p>
<p>Kepler is just skimming the surface, grabbing the &#8216;easy&#8217; detections!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-696106</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 22:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-696106</guid>
		<description>@Raph, @amphiox, thanks for your points -  as I understand it, the only way both your points correlate is that currently the data field is way too narrow to be able to find definitive results, which is fine, because as I said above, we only have to wait until we get the additional datasets to be able to apply them to Kepler mission data. 

What I learned from the astronomy units of my degree was just how incredibly well astronomers use every last scrap of data made available to them - I recall a (what seemed to me) rather blurred photo of iapetus and then was shown just how much good science was derived from that single photo.  When each dataset costs so many thousand dollars, you really have to get everything you can from it, and get the best minds on the job!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Raph, @amphiox, thanks for your points &#8211;  as I understand it, the only way both your points correlate is that currently the data field is way too narrow to be able to find definitive results, which is fine, because as I said above, we only have to wait until we get the additional datasets to be able to apply them to Kepler mission data. </p>
<p>What I learned from the astronomy units of my degree was just how incredibly well astronomers use every last scrap of data made available to them &#8211; I recall a (what seemed to me) rather blurred photo of iapetus and then was shown just how much good science was derived from that single photo.  When each dataset costs so many thousand dollars, you really have to get everything you can from it, and get the best minds on the job!</p>
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		<title>By: amphiox</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-696075</link>
		<dc:creator>amphiox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 22:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-696075</guid>
		<description>Ben #12;

I&#039;m not actually sure if Kepler&#039;s field is indeed big enough for the kind of calculations you propose. It&#039;s actually only looking at a relatively small patch of the sky.

One would expect more comprehensive sky surveys to be on the table once sufficient results come back from Kepler, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben #12;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not actually sure if Kepler&#8217;s field is indeed big enough for the kind of calculations you propose. It&#8217;s actually only looking at a relatively small patch of the sky.</p>
<p>One would expect more comprehensive sky surveys to be on the table once sufficient results come back from Kepler, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Raph</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-696047</link>
		<dc:creator>Raph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 22:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-696047</guid>
		<description>@Ben
Rergarding this galactic plane thing, I remember a question being asked to a Kepler mission
guest lecturer (at the Foot Hill College lectures on astronomy).
Her answer was that they have not found any statistical pattern in the orientation of
the spin of stars versus the galactic plane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ben<br />
Rergarding this galactic plane thing, I remember a question being asked to a Kepler mission<br />
guest lecturer (at the Foot Hill College lectures on astronomy).<br />
Her answer was that they have not found any statistical pattern in the orientation of<br />
the spin of stars versus the galactic plane.</p>
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		<title>By: JJ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695971</link>
		<dc:creator>JJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 21:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695971</guid>
		<description>The major point of the story has a flaw...it wasn&#039;t a Kepler exoplanet that was demoted from Earth-like to not very habitable. It was a candidate that was demoted.

The reason it was only a candidate still, is they didn&#039;t have time to do all the follow up observations and analysis to confirm that it was truly a planet, Earth sized, in the habitable zone.

It is unfortunate that one of the more promising candidates turned out to be something other than what was initially thought but that&#039;s part of the investigation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The major point of the story has a flaw&#8230;it wasn&#8217;t a Kepler exoplanet that was demoted from Earth-like to not very habitable. It was a candidate that was demoted.</p>
<p>The reason it was only a candidate still, is they didn&#8217;t have time to do all the follow up observations and analysis to confirm that it was truly a planet, Earth sized, in the habitable zone.</p>
<p>It is unfortunate that one of the more promising candidates turned out to be something other than what was initially thought but that&#8217;s part of the investigation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695938</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 21:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695938</guid>
		<description>@everyone
Thanks for your responses!  Like I said, that question had always kind of bothered me, but now I&#039;ll know that when I see numbers like 1200 possible planets have been discovered out of x number of systems, there&#039;s an implied acknowledgement that there are actually many more but we just can&#039;t detect them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@everyone<br />
Thanks for your responses!  Like I said, that question had always kind of bothered me, but now I&#8217;ll know that when I see numbers like 1200 possible planets have been discovered out of x number of systems, there&#8217;s an implied acknowledgement that there are actually many more but we just can&#8217;t detect them.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695782</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:14:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695782</guid>
		<description>jon,

You are correct. Kepler recognizes this and states that the odds of seeing a planet exactly like ours (size and distance from its sun) would be about 0.5% if the planet did exist in the first place.

So, yes, Kepler will see a small percentage of the planets out there. They account for this when taking the survey of 150k+ stars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jon,</p>
<p>You are correct. Kepler recognizes this and states that the odds of seeing a planet exactly like ours (size and distance from its sun) would be about 0.5% if the planet did exist in the first place.</p>
<p>So, yes, Kepler will see a small percentage of the planets out there. They account for this when taking the survey of 150k+ stars.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695779</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695779</guid>
		<description>@ Jon (and everyone wondering about non-parallel systems:)

The scientists running the Kepler mission realize the detection method is indeed limited for exactly the reason you mentioned. They can indeed only detect planets that cross the visual path between earth and their star. For this reason, it is very easy to use this method to detect a large number of planents orbiting close to their star (a much larger percentage can be detected because the orbital angles can be more varied while still crossing the star&#039;s field of view. However, stars which are much further out (say the equivilant of Neptune) have a very low probability of crossing their star&#039;s visual pathway.

The detection method is also limited by time frame. Only 6 months have passed in the Kepler mission and the planet must pass between us and the star 3 times. Once for the initial dim, once to verify the period of the planet, and once to verify the frequency. This means that only planets with orbital periods of less than 2 months have been detected!

While the Kepler scientists are looking for planets, they&#039;re more interested in the statistics. If 1% of planets can be dected using this method, are they seeing .5% of all stars with planets or 2% or 7%... this will give us an idea of the average number of planets within any given extra-solar system which is the intent of the entire mission.

If we happen to find some potentially habitable planets along the way - awesome!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Jon (and everyone wondering about non-parallel systems:)</p>
<p>The scientists running the Kepler mission realize the detection method is indeed limited for exactly the reason you mentioned. They can indeed only detect planets that cross the visual path between earth and their star. For this reason, it is very easy to use this method to detect a large number of planents orbiting close to their star (a much larger percentage can be detected because the orbital angles can be more varied while still crossing the star&#8217;s field of view. However, stars which are much further out (say the equivilant of Neptune) have a very low probability of crossing their star&#8217;s visual pathway.</p>
<p>The detection method is also limited by time frame. Only 6 months have passed in the Kepler mission and the planet must pass between us and the star 3 times. Once for the initial dim, once to verify the period of the planet, and once to verify the frequency. This means that only planets with orbital periods of less than 2 months have been detected!</p>
<p>While the Kepler scientists are looking for planets, they&#8217;re more interested in the statistics. If 1% of planets can be dected using this method, are they seeing .5% of all stars with planets or 2% or 7%&#8230; this will give us an idea of the average number of planets within any given extra-solar system which is the intent of the entire mission.</p>
<p>If we happen to find some potentially habitable planets along the way &#8211; awesome!</p>
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		<title>By: Petr</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695769</link>
		<dc:creator>Petr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695769</guid>
		<description>Re: J

yes, calculation of the probability: (d* / a). 100 (%)

d = radius of a star
a = Semi-major axis

for the parameters of the Earth ~ 0.5°%</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: J</p>
<p>yes, calculation of the probability: (d* / a). 100 (%)</p>
<p>d = radius of a star<br />
a = Semi-major axis</p>
<p>for the parameters of the Earth ~ 0.5°%</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695704</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 19:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695704</guid>
		<description>All these comments are interesting - but one thing that Kepler could do which is much better than using a random &#039;estimate&#039; is to identify the percentage of stars that have planetary transits in relation to their angle to Sol vs. the Galactic plane - if we see a deviation of results that increases as we look at stars perpendicular to the galactic plane, then we can quickly identify what sort of conformance solar systems have to the glactic plane, whereas if there is no difference (ie the same number of planet candidates are found), then we can identify that the plane of solar systems is not connected to the galactic plane.

Of course, this makes the assumption that Kepler is surveying a vast amount of sky - but the science could be done, if not by Kepler - and Kepler&#039;s results could be recalculated in light of those results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All these comments are interesting &#8211; but one thing that Kepler could do which is much better than using a random &#8216;estimate&#8217; is to identify the percentage of stars that have planetary transits in relation to their angle to Sol vs. the Galactic plane &#8211; if we see a deviation of results that increases as we look at stars perpendicular to the galactic plane, then we can quickly identify what sort of conformance solar systems have to the glactic plane, whereas if there is no difference (ie the same number of planet candidates are found), then we can identify that the plane of solar systems is not connected to the galactic plane.</p>
<p>Of course, this makes the assumption that Kepler is surveying a vast amount of sky &#8211; but the science could be done, if not by Kepler &#8211; and Kepler&#8217;s results could be recalculated in light of those results.</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695691</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 19:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695691</guid>
		<description>Good thing we found out before we took off huh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thing we found out before we took off huh</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Grant</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695686</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 19:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695686</guid>
		<description>@Petr The neighboring star is KIC 9880470. It appears so close to KIC 9880467 in Kepler&#039;s field of view that the telescope sees them as a single source of light -- it&#039;s up to astronomers to determine how much light comes from each star.

@Jon That&#039;s a great question, and thanks to the other commenters for addressing it. Kepler only sees planets whose orbits take them directly between the star and the telescope. Astronomers understand that Kepler is missing out on many planets, and they factor that into their planet frequency calculations. 

By the way, this limitation is one of the things that makes the recently announced Kepler 11 system so extraordinary. Consider that the six planets in the Kepler 11 system are so perfectly aligned that they all cross their star in transits visible to Kepler. The eight planets in our solar system orbit along a fairly flat plane, but not flat enough that Kepler would be able to see all of them from afar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Petr The neighboring star is KIC 9880470. It appears so close to KIC 9880467 in Kepler&#8217;s field of view that the telescope sees them as a single source of light &#8212; it&#8217;s up to astronomers to determine how much light comes from each star.</p>
<p>@Jon That&#8217;s a great question, and thanks to the other commenters for addressing it. Kepler only sees planets whose orbits take them directly between the star and the telescope. Astronomers understand that Kepler is missing out on many planets, and they factor that into their planet frequency calculations. </p>
<p>By the way, this limitation is one of the things that makes the recently announced Kepler 11 system so extraordinary. Consider that the six planets in the Kepler 11 system are so perfectly aligned that they all cross their star in transits visible to Kepler. The eight planets in our solar system orbit along a fairly flat plane, but not flat enough that Kepler would be able to see all of them from afar.</p>
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		<title>By: Leif</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695654</link>
		<dc:creator>Leif</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 19:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695654</guid>
		<description>That is correct. Kepler does not rule out planets around a star.  It just finds the ones which do pass in front of the star as seen by us.  There is an assumption being made about what percentage of solar systems would have planes parallel to our own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is correct. Kepler does not rule out planets around a star.  It just finds the ones which do pass in front of the star as seen by us.  There is an assumption being made about what percentage of solar systems would have planes parallel to our own.</p>
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		<title>By: Ricardo Bánffy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695629</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricardo Bánffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 19:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695629</guid>
		<description>Jon,

You can calculate how frequent is having the orbital plane aligned with Earth. You then divide the number of solar systems with planet detections by Kepler by the odds of it having the plane aligned with Earth to get the total number of systems with planets detectable by Kepler.

You may want to consider other factors (the farthest the planet is from the star, the lower the chance to observe a transit, not all planets orbit at the same plane, many stars are part of multi-star systems) to get better numbers, but I&#039;ll leave that to the real scientists in the audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon,</p>
<p>You can calculate how frequent is having the orbital plane aligned with Earth. You then divide the number of solar systems with planet detections by Kepler by the odds of it having the plane aligned with Earth to get the total number of systems with planets detectable by Kepler.</p>
<p>You may want to consider other factors (the farthest the planet is from the star, the lower the chance to observe a transit, not all planets orbit at the same plane, many stars are part of multi-star systems) to get better numbers, but I&#8217;ll leave that to the real scientists in the audience.</p>
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		<title>By: PJ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695609</link>
		<dc:creator>PJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695609</guid>
		<description>@Jon I&#039;m right there with you. I often wondered the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jon I&#8217;m right there with you. I often wondered the same thing.</p>
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		<title>By: drazed</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695606</link>
		<dc:creator>drazed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695606</guid>
		<description>&quot;But I don’t understand how not finding a result from a star would preclude it from having planets orbiting it. It seems to me that the Kepler method is making a large assumption that our view from Earth is parallel to the plane of each star’s potential system. &quot;

Not finding a result does not preclude it from having planets orbiting it.  But from a purely statistical standpoint, when watching more then 156,000 stars, you can statistically estimate how many WOULD be parallel to the star.  Take the size of each star (or the average size as would suffice statistically), the distance of potential planet from said star, and you get a very specific probability of planets being in that plane.  Then multiply that 156,000 stars by said percentage and you have the number of stars you SHOULD see any planets at, if this matches (within error) to the number of tracked stars that have candidates then you know all (or at least most) of the stars have planets at all, if the candidates are less then expected then you can statistically estimate how  many stars have no planets at all.  Then, from ratio of types of planets in candidate stars you can estimate how many planets are around all (even non-parallel) stars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But I don’t understand how not finding a result from a star would preclude it from having planets orbiting it. It seems to me that the Kepler method is making a large assumption that our view from Earth is parallel to the plane of each star’s potential system. &#8221;</p>
<p>Not finding a result does not preclude it from having planets orbiting it.  But from a purely statistical standpoint, when watching more then 156,000 stars, you can statistically estimate how many WOULD be parallel to the star.  Take the size of each star (or the average size as would suffice statistically), the distance of potential planet from said star, and you get a very specific probability of planets being in that plane.  Then multiply that 156,000 stars by said percentage and you have the number of stars you SHOULD see any planets at, if this matches (within error) to the number of tracked stars that have candidates then you know all (or at least most) of the stars have planets at all, if the candidates are less then expected then you can statistically estimate how  many stars have no planets at all.  Then, from ratio of types of planets in candidate stars you can estimate how many planets are around all (even non-parallel) stars.</p>
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		<title>By: MT-LA</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695564</link>
		<dc:creator>MT-LA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695564</guid>
		<description>@Jon:  Though I&#039;m no expert, I think you&#039;re totally right, but you&#039;re looking at it the wrong way.  The Kepler method of transiting identifies possible planets, but it doesn&#039;t (can&#039;t) say that a star DOESN&#039;T have a planet(s).  
The Kepler method is a statistical analysis because they have to look at the star&#039;s brightness before, during, and after a transit and figure out if its periodic.  But there is a different statistical analysis to figure out a percentage of stars that have earth-like planets.  
I think you have a (valid) concern on the second statistical analysis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jon:  Though I&#8217;m no expert, I think you&#8217;re totally right, but you&#8217;re looking at it the wrong way.  The Kepler method of transiting identifies possible planets, but it doesn&#8217;t (can&#8217;t) say that a star DOESN&#8217;T have a planet(s).<br />
The Kepler method is a statistical analysis because they have to look at the star&#8217;s brightness before, during, and after a transit and figure out if its periodic.  But there is a different statistical analysis to figure out a percentage of stars that have earth-like planets.<br />
I think you have a (valid) concern on the second statistical analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Johnson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695559</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695559</guid>
		<description>Jon, assuming the distribution of orbital planes is random, it should be easy to figure what percentage of your total sample will be at angles that allow detection of transits.  Taking  that percentage into account,  you can then figure number of planets in the total sample.  

I&#039;ll bet it&#039;s real fun trying to figure out how random the distribution of orbital planes is, though.  How strongly does the galactic plane correlate with individual solar planes?   Are there events or objects that perturb them?  

Probably some of the questions astronomers are now combing through Kepler&#039;s data to answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, assuming the distribution of orbital planes is random, it should be easy to figure what percentage of your total sample will be at angles that allow detection of transits.  Taking  that percentage into account,  you can then figure number of planets in the total sample.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll bet it&#8217;s real fun trying to figure out how random the distribution of orbital planes is, though.  How strongly does the galactic plane correlate with individual solar planes?   Are there events or objects that perturb them?  </p>
<p>Probably some of the questions astronomers are now combing through Kepler&#8217;s data to answer.</p>
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		<title>By: J</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695558</link>
		<dc:creator>J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695558</guid>
		<description>Jon, I would imagine a calculation of the probability (assuming random orientation) that planets are in the same plane as the view from Earth to their star isn&#039;t particularly difficult. 

That said, I believe move star systems have a plane oriented roughly paralell to the galactic plane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, I would imagine a calculation of the probability (assuming random orientation) that planets are in the same plane as the view from Earth to their star isn&#8217;t particularly difficult. </p>
<p>That said, I believe move star systems have a plane oriented roughly paralell to the galactic plane.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695494</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 17:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695494</guid>
		<description>I have a question that&#039;s bothered me for a while.  

&quot;Kepler finds planets by detecting tiny dips in a star’s brightness during transits when a planet crosses in front of it.&quot;

So I get how that could find planets.  But I don&#039;t understand how not finding a result from a star would preclude it from having planets orbiting it. It seems to me that the Kepler method is making a large assumption that our view from Earth is parallel to the plane of each star&#039;s potential system.  In other words, what&#039;s to say that we&#039;re not looking top-down on a bunch of star systems... The planets are there, but never pass between us and the star.  (I realize this wouldn&#039;t really impact the statistics of what percentage of planets are Earth-like, but wouldn&#039;t it affect the estimates of how many planets there are period?)

Am I way out to lunch?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a question that&#8217;s bothered me for a while.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Kepler finds planets by detecting tiny dips in a star’s brightness during transits when a planet crosses in front of it.&#8221;</p>
<p>So I get how that could find planets.  But I don&#8217;t understand how not finding a result from a star would preclude it from having planets orbiting it. It seems to me that the Kepler method is making a large assumption that our view from Earth is parallel to the plane of each star&#8217;s potential system.  In other words, what&#8217;s to say that we&#8217;re not looking top-down on a bunch of star systems&#8230; The planets are there, but never pass between us and the star.  (I realize this wouldn&#8217;t really impact the statistics of what percentage of planets are Earth-like, but wouldn&#8217;t it affect the estimates of how many planets there are period?)</p>
<p>Am I way out to lunch?</p>
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		<title>By: Petr</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/03/08/exclusive-most-earth-like-exoplanet-gets-major-demotion%e2%80%94it-isnt-habitable/comment-page-1/#comment-695430</link>
		<dc:creator>Petr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 17:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27161#comment-695430</guid>
		<description>neighbor is KIC 9880470 or KIC 9880457?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>neighbor is KIC 9880470 or KIC 9880457?</p>
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