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	<title>Comments on: When the Blind Can Suddenly See, Do They Know What They’re Looking At?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/</link>
	<description>80beats is DISCOVER&#039;s news aggregator, weaving together the choicest tidbits from the best articles covering the day&#039;s most compelling topics.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 May 2012 17:15:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: sean</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-1717060</link>
		<dc:creator>sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 02:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-1717060</guid>
		<description>Was wondering whether a connection that needs priming by experience is common among all senses. ie when the deaf hear (cochlea implants in congenitally deaf people) do they know what they are listening to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was wondering whether a connection that needs priming by experience is common among all senses. ie when the deaf hear (cochlea implants in congenitally deaf people) do they know what they are listening to?</p>
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		<title>By: Claudie Barnhurst</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-1310216</link>
		<dc:creator>Claudie Barnhurst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Aug 2011 12:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-1310216</guid>
		<description>Youcompletedsome valid</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Youcompletedsome valid</p>
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		<title>By: James Lee</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-808865</link>
		<dc:creator>James Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Apr 2011 18:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-808865</guid>
		<description>Learning a skill (playing a guitar,piano,or any other musical instrument) while blind would seem to me a much harder task to re-aquaint. Yet many have in a short period of time. Could this be due to the early learning as a (by ear) factor.Conversly there are those that learned prior to loosing sight and have a diffucult time re-establishing the quality of play after the loss. Yet they usually do given time.                                                 peace    jla</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Learning a skill (playing a guitar,piano,or any other musical instrument) while blind would seem to me a much harder task to re-aquaint. Yet many have in a short period of time. Could this be due to the early learning as a (by ear) factor.Conversly there are those that learned prior to loosing sight and have a diffucult time re-establishing the quality of play after the loss. Yet they usually do given time.                                                 peace    jla</p>
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		<title>By: Smritimala</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-807314</link>
		<dc:creator>Smritimala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Apr 2011 05:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-807314</guid>
		<description>Really interesting.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really interesting&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Yuri Ostrovsky</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-799502</link>
		<dc:creator>Yuri Ostrovsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2011 18:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-799502</guid>
		<description>@ comment #15 (Jason Hancock)
It&#039;s a good question, but the object matching task is not very difficult for the normally sighted, and in fact is not even particularly difficult for this newly sighted population after just 1-4 weeks of experience, as evidenced by their very good performance in the follow-up phase. 

Also, although in the follow-up phase they did have some practice from part 1, the objects were entirely novel, so they did not have _any_ practice with these particular objects. Moreover, the study only observed improvements in that particular condition (touch-to-vision), and not in any of the other conditions (vision-to-vision or touch-to-touch), so the practice effect cannot explain the overall finding. Remember, the vision-to-vision condition is also a completely new task for these children, yet they perform it remarkably well right from the beginning. If all conditions had shown improvement, it would indeed be difficult to tell this apart from simple practice on the task itself, but that is not what was observed. 

(It should be noted, however, that this does not show that _vision_ is completely normal after sight onset. In fact, it is not, as shown in other studies by some of the same authors. Nor does it show that the touch-to-vision mapping is _completely_ learned after this short period of time, only that there is rapid progress. The stimuli for this experiment were carefully chosen to be simple enough so as to make sure that vision would not be the relevant limiting factor -- a nuance that was missing from most prior attempts to answer this question. All these details are extremely interesting but will take long efforts to pin down.)

@ comment #7 (Pat A)
Your intuition touches the core of the question. Does the brain have these concepts due to innate mechanisms stemming from evolution, or does it acquire them from experience? I have observed a roughly 50-50 split in a room-full of neuroscientists when asked about their intuitions to the Molyneux question, and almost no one would have predicted that acquisition would happen so rapidly. Regarding some of the concepts you mention, there is actually some evidence in the infant literature that there may be innate mappings for this small subset of features. But it is difficult to interpret these findings sometimes, because even a few days of experience by the infant can lead to learning. One of the ironic things about neuroscience is that the mind&#039;s intuitions about itself (even when properly reasoned out) are often wrong, hence, as many of the commenters have pointed out, this is why we do such &quot;obvious&quot; studies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ comment #15 (Jason Hancock)<br />
It&#8217;s a good question, but the object matching task is not very difficult for the normally sighted, and in fact is not even particularly difficult for this newly sighted population after just 1-4 weeks of experience, as evidenced by their very good performance in the follow-up phase. </p>
<p>Also, although in the follow-up phase they did have some practice from part 1, the objects were entirely novel, so they did not have _any_ practice with these particular objects. Moreover, the study only observed improvements in that particular condition (touch-to-vision), and not in any of the other conditions (vision-to-vision or touch-to-touch), so the practice effect cannot explain the overall finding. Remember, the vision-to-vision condition is also a completely new task for these children, yet they perform it remarkably well right from the beginning. If all conditions had shown improvement, it would indeed be difficult to tell this apart from simple practice on the task itself, but that is not what was observed. </p>
<p>(It should be noted, however, that this does not show that _vision_ is completely normal after sight onset. In fact, it is not, as shown in other studies by some of the same authors. Nor does it show that the touch-to-vision mapping is _completely_ learned after this short period of time, only that there is rapid progress. The stimuli for this experiment were carefully chosen to be simple enough so as to make sure that vision would not be the relevant limiting factor &#8212; a nuance that was missing from most prior attempts to answer this question. All these details are extremely interesting but will take long efforts to pin down.)</p>
<p>@ comment #7 (Pat A)<br />
Your intuition touches the core of the question. Does the brain have these concepts due to innate mechanisms stemming from evolution, or does it acquire them from experience? I have observed a roughly 50-50 split in a room-full of neuroscientists when asked about their intuitions to the Molyneux question, and almost no one would have predicted that acquisition would happen so rapidly. Regarding some of the concepts you mention, there is actually some evidence in the infant literature that there may be innate mappings for this small subset of features. But it is difficult to interpret these findings sometimes, because even a few days of experience by the infant can lead to learning. One of the ironic things about neuroscience is that the mind&#8217;s intuitions about itself (even when properly reasoned out) are often wrong, hence, as many of the commenters have pointed out, this is why we do such &#8220;obvious&#8221; studies.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Hancock</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-795000</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-795000</guid>
		<description>This may or may not be interesting.  I would like to see how sighted people would do on such  test.  I think it is entirely possibly that if you blindfold sighted people and give them a complex lego-shape object to feel, then unblinfold them and ask them which of two objects they felt, that many people would not get it right.  It really depends on how complex and similar the objects are.

I also think anyone who takes a test initially may improve their score on a second try because they have had &quot;practice&quot;.

This may be interesting but it may also not tell us anything at all about newly sighted people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may or may not be interesting.  I would like to see how sighted people would do on such  test.  I think it is entirely possibly that if you blindfold sighted people and give them a complex lego-shape object to feel, then unblinfold them and ask them which of two objects they felt, that many people would not get it right.  It really depends on how complex and similar the objects are.</p>
<p>I also think anyone who takes a test initially may improve their score on a second try because they have had &#8220;practice&#8221;.</p>
<p>This may be interesting but it may also not tell us anything at all about newly sighted people.</p>
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		<title>By: Beta</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-793304</link>
		<dc:creator>Beta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 01:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-793304</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d love to know  which common aspects of vision Douglas Watts and brian think the &quot;newly sighted&quot; cannot learn, even after a year or so of sight. If they can accurately guess, then they have astounding insight into neurology; if they don&#039;t have a clue, then their remarkable powers of intuition apply only in hindsight, in something akin to Anton-Babinski syndrome (or what&#039;s commonly known as &quot;hot air&quot;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d love to know  which common aspects of vision Douglas Watts and brian think the &#8220;newly sighted&#8221; cannot learn, even after a year or so of sight. If they can accurately guess, then they have astounding insight into neurology; if they don&#8217;t have a clue, then their remarkable powers of intuition apply only in hindsight, in something akin to Anton-Babinski syndrome (or what&#8217;s commonly known as &#8220;hot air&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-791866</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 15:08:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-791866</guid>
		<description>I would be interested in studies similar to this involving color blind people.  If you go from not having the ability to having the ability how your brain would respond to these new stimuli.  I assume it would be similar to this but any thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be interested in studies similar to this involving color blind people.  If you go from not having the ability to having the ability how your brain would respond to these new stimuli.  I assume it would be similar to this but any thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: Vincent</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-790901</link>
		<dc:creator>Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 04:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-790901</guid>
		<description>Not surprising? This study takes the scientific method to an epistemological question in a way that is not often possible. In this case, looks like there&#039;s a score for the empiricists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not surprising? This study takes the scientific method to an epistemological question in a way that is not often possible. In this case, looks like there&#8217;s a score for the empiricists.</p>
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		<title>By: Vex</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-790741</link>
		<dc:creator>Vex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Apr 2011 02:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-790741</guid>
		<description>Quite interesting! The more we learn about our brain and how it works, the better! The quick turnaround time for the patients to be able to recognize images based on sight is pretty neat and I&#039;d like to see more studies done to expand on these findings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite interesting! The more we learn about our brain and how it works, the better! The quick turnaround time for the patients to be able to recognize images based on sight is pretty neat and I&#8217;d like to see more studies done to expand on these findings.</p>
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		<title>By: me</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-790362</link>
		<dc:creator>me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 21:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-790362</guid>
		<description>I thought this was pretty interesting. Also, makes me wonder if the blue I see is the same blue you see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought this was pretty interesting. Also, makes me wonder if the blue I see is the same blue you see.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-790195</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 20:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-790195</guid>
		<description>The researchers are also working to restore eyesight to blind children in India. So learning something while helping is pretty damn great IMHO.
The research is great as it helps build a better picture of how the brain works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The researchers are also working to restore eyesight to blind children in India. So learning something while helping is pretty damn great IMHO.<br />
The research is great as it helps build a better picture of how the brain works.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-790001</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 19:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-790001</guid>
		<description>I propose we stop doing science and instead publish Douglas and Brian&#039;s intuitions.

I think this is a very interesting insight into how the brain might work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I propose we stop doing science and instead publish Douglas and Brian&#8217;s intuitions.</p>
<p>I think this is a very interesting insight into how the brain might work.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat A</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-789866</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 17:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-789866</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know why that should surprise them,  The blind cannot see top, bottom  etc  nor depth or width so would have a hard time until they had seen and under stood these concepts then their brain would use them in a feel - see connection.    The same is true for Corner or round,   bumpy or smooth,  these concepts first need to be learned before they can relate feeling them to seeing them. 
Pat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why that should surprise them,  The blind cannot see top, bottom  etc  nor depth or width so would have a hard time until they had seen and under stood these concepts then their brain would use them in a feel &#8211; see connection.    The same is true for Corner or round,   bumpy or smooth,  these concepts first need to be learned before they can relate feeling them to seeing them.<br />
Pat</p>
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		<title>By: Robert E</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-789448</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-789448</guid>
		<description>Obviously not &quot;unbelievably not surprising&quot; and &quot;obvious&quot; or people wouldn&#039;t have been asking the question for the last 300+ years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously not &#8220;unbelievably not surprising&#8221; and &#8220;obvious&#8221; or people wouldn&#8217;t have been asking the question for the last 300+ years.</p>
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		<title>By: PB</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-789430</link>
		<dc:creator>PB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-789430</guid>
		<description>I, too, found this really interesting. We didn&#039;t know if the brain &quot;just knew&quot; what shapes &quot;look&quot; like. And if not, how long does it take to connect the visual with the tactile? If a long time, relatively speaking, that says the connections need to be built from the beginning. If quickly, as it appears is the case, then that seems to indicate that the connections are there, but had never been primed. It&#039;s all good stuff in our quest to understand how our amazing brains put information together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too, found this really interesting. We didn&#8217;t know if the brain &#8220;just knew&#8221; what shapes &#8220;look&#8221; like. And if not, how long does it take to connect the visual with the tactile? If a long time, relatively speaking, that says the connections need to be built from the beginning. If quickly, as it appears is the case, then that seems to indicate that the connections are there, but had never been primed. It&#8217;s all good stuff in our quest to understand how our amazing brains put information together.</p>
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		<title>By: dg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-789390</link>
		<dc:creator>dg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-789390</guid>
		<description>&quot;Unbelievably not surprising&quot; and &quot;obvious&quot;?  Sounds like the attitude of 19th century luminiferous aether supporters.  

You can&#039;t be sure of something until you actually look. That&#039;s the core of science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Unbelievably not surprising&#8221; and &#8220;obvious&#8221;?  Sounds like the attitude of 19th century luminiferous aether supporters.  </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t be sure of something until you actually look. That&#8217;s the core of science.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy Lucas</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-789368</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy Lucas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-789368</guid>
		<description>I found this interesting. Worth the read to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found this interesting. Worth the read to me.</p>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-789301</link>
		<dc:creator>brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-789301</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I wish I could get paid to research the obvious in this economy.   This would even beat being a weatherman, because the outcome would be correct more often.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I wish I could get paid to research the obvious in this economy.   This would even beat being a weatherman, because the outcome would be correct more often.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Watts</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/04/11/when-the-blind-suddenly-see-do-they-know-what-theyre-looking-at/comment-page-1/#comment-787848</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Watts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 03:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=27901#comment-787848</guid>
		<description>This is unbelievably not surprising and not even worthy of a story. But if you have to do anything to sell a story, go for it. Pollute the atmosphere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is unbelievably not surprising and not even worthy of a story. But if you have to do anything to sell a story, go for it. Pollute the atmosphere.</p>
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