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	<title>Comments on: Unlike the Rest of Us, Autistics Don&#8217;t Act Like Angels When Someone&#8217;s Watching</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/</link>
	<description>80beats is DISCOVER&#039;s news aggregator, weaving together the choicest tidbits from the best articles covering the day&#039;s most compelling topics.</description>
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		<title>By: VeLuz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2214323</link>
		<dc:creator>VeLuz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 01:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2214323</guid>
		<description>&quot;Normal&quot; people can learn a lot from people with autism or developmental disabilities. My son is high functioning autistic and my brother is developmentally delayed; they are the most honest and innocent people I have ever known. They have taught me so much. Unlike the rest of us, autistic people act accordingly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Normal&#8221; people can learn a lot from people with autism or developmental disabilities. My son is high functioning autistic and my brother is developmentally delayed; they are the most honest and innocent people I have ever known. They have taught me so much. Unlike the rest of us, autistic people act accordingly.</p>
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		<title>By: Seebs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2209886</link>
		<dc:creator>Seebs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Oct 2011 16:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2209886</guid>
		<description>What do you mean &quot;no one&#039;s watching&quot;?

*I&#039;m* watching.

So, yeah.  It&#039;s not that I don&#039;t know that other people form opinions of me based on my actions.  It&#039;s that I form opinions of me based on my actions, so I act in ways I think are appropriate.  If other people might judge me differently, well, okay.  So?

I am not acting to put on a show.  I am acting to achieve the results I want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you mean &#8220;no one&#8217;s watching&#8221;?</p>
<p>*I&#8217;m* watching.</p>
<p>So, yeah.  It&#8217;s not that I don&#8217;t know that other people form opinions of me based on my actions.  It&#8217;s that I form opinions of me based on my actions, so I act in ways I think are appropriate.  If other people might judge me differently, well, okay.  So?</p>
<p>I am not acting to put on a show.  I am acting to achieve the results I want.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2187774</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2011 03:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2187774</guid>
		<description>#15. I disagree with you. I think your work has been limited to people with more severe cases of autism. People with Aspergers do not necessarily have flat affect and monotone voices, or use no body language. In fact, I am working with a very high functioning young man right now who is quite expressive, although not always what is considered situationally appropriate. He listens to English comedies on his Ipod and will repeat them word for word as he is listening, with all the emotions  and body language that are being conveyed by the actors. Then he will break into loud  laughter as something amuses him. In the classroom my main problem is that he misinterprets what others say and do, and is quite intent on having everyone follow his very black and white understanding of the rules. Now he has accepted that as the teacher I enforce the rules, not him,  things have been smoother...although I do have to remind him occasionally. Lest you think that he is slow, he is taking third year French, calculus and chemistry among his classes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#15. I disagree with you. I think your work has been limited to people with more severe cases of autism. People with Aspergers do not necessarily have flat affect and monotone voices, or use no body language. In fact, I am working with a very high functioning young man right now who is quite expressive, although not always what is considered situationally appropriate. He listens to English comedies on his Ipod and will repeat them word for word as he is listening, with all the emotions  and body language that are being conveyed by the actors. Then he will break into loud  laughter as something amuses him. In the classroom my main problem is that he misinterprets what others say and do, and is quite intent on having everyone follow his very black and white understanding of the rules. Now he has accepted that as the teacher I enforce the rules, not him,  things have been smoother&#8230;although I do have to remind him occasionally. Lest you think that he is slow, he is taking third year French, calculus and chemistry among his classes.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2187255</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2011 01:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2187255</guid>
		<description>The choice that is made is logical. Someone watching or not watching does not change the logic behind the choice. Ego is irrelevant when making a logical choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The choice that is made is logical. Someone watching or not watching does not change the logic behind the choice. Ego is irrelevant when making a logical choice.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2184965</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 23:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2184965</guid>
		<description>#16, I think what you&#039;re trying to say is that if a person cannot recognize another person as more than an animated object, morals don&#039;t come into play. I agree with you on this unfortunate fact. However, I don&#039;t think that is the typical case for Aspies. I don&#039;t have &quot;mind blindness&quot;. I have body language blindness. I can&#039;t read the *superficial* cues that tell me what someone is thinking or feeling. This does not make me incapable of recognizing that other people, like myself, have intentions, desires, needs, and motivations, nor does it keep me from recognizing that those internal drives resemble my own in their workings, albiet less so for neurotypicals than for other Aspies. It does not justify or mitigate the suffering you experienced, but your attacker was probably driven by extreme, overpowering frustration, which can unfortunately drive anyone to violence if it is bad enough. And being an Aspie is very frustrating, especially living in a world where our own needs and motivations are so often overlooks or trivialized and dismissed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#16, I think what you&#8217;re trying to say is that if a person cannot recognize another person as more than an animated object, morals don&#8217;t come into play. I agree with you on this unfortunate fact. However, I don&#8217;t think that is the typical case for Aspies. I don&#8217;t have &#8220;mind blindness&#8221;. I have body language blindness. I can&#8217;t read the *superficial* cues that tell me what someone is thinking or feeling. This does not make me incapable of recognizing that other people, like myself, have intentions, desires, needs, and motivations, nor does it keep me from recognizing that those internal drives resemble my own in their workings, albiet less so for neurotypicals than for other Aspies. It does not justify or mitigate the suffering you experienced, but your attacker was probably driven by extreme, overpowering frustration, which can unfortunately drive anyone to violence if it is bad enough. And being an Aspie is very frustrating, especially living in a world where our own needs and motivations are so often overlooks or trivialized and dismissed.</p>
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		<title>By: michele</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2183300</link>
		<dc:creator>michele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 20:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2183300</guid>
		<description>Hello again. Here is a link to the essay &quot;Ketman&quot; out of Milosz&#039;s classic THE CAPTIVE MIND. On acting... http://www.ketman.net/captivemindchapter3.html Fascinating stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello again. Here is a link to the essay &#8220;Ketman&#8221; out of Milosz&#8217;s classic THE CAPTIVE MIND. On acting&#8230; <a href="http://www.ketman.net/captivemindchapter3.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ketman.net/captivemindchapter3.html</a> Fascinating stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: michele</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2183151</link>
		<dc:creator>michele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 20:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2183151</guid>
		<description>Cody, you rock! Exactly. 

&quot;Yet another hypothesis could be: they don’t consider a positive increase in reputation to be valuable if it originates from a lie.&quot;

&quot;But I imagine there are still additional hypotheses.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cody, you rock! Exactly. </p>
<p>&#8220;Yet another hypothesis could be: they don’t consider a positive increase in reputation to be valuable if it originates from a lie.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;But I imagine there are still additional hypotheses.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Aspies Are Dangerous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2182814</link>
		<dc:creator>Aspies Are Dangerous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 19:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2182814</guid>
		<description>As someone who was repeatedly visiously attacked by a dangerous &quot;high-functioning&quot; Aspie, I think that this failure to change behavior reflects the lack of observing object relations development because of the mind blindness. It suggests a lack of conscience is present due to failure to internalize other people (objects) and their judgments, a prerequisite for appropriate, non-dangerous, social behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who was repeatedly visiously attacked by a dangerous &#8220;high-functioning&#8221; Aspie, I think that this failure to change behavior reflects the lack of observing object relations development because of the mind blindness. It suggests a lack of conscience is present due to failure to internalize other people (objects) and their judgments, a prerequisite for appropriate, non-dangerous, social behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: Stwart Jenssen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2181496</link>
		<dc:creator>Stwart Jenssen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 17:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2181496</guid>
		<description>Oh my god, you can&#039;t put a label or a disorder on everybody who has a personality and doesn&#039;t fit a generic mold. That&#039;s like saying everyone who is quiet and keeps to themselves must be autistic or have social anxiety disorder. LAME. I happen to work with autistic children, most of which have Aspergers and I can tell you that just by watching Amanda speak in the courtroom that she does NOT have autism. Most notably how she uses a lot of expressive hand motion when speaking. Aspies do not do this! They use very little to no body language, they have difficult time reading other people&#039;s body language. Their facial expressions are flat, their voice is monotone, they often make inappropriate eye contact- either too much or not enough, their posture is awkward, etc. Amanda displays none of these characteristics. You should probably pick up a book on the disorder, before trying to go around diagnosing everyone with it.

Stwart Jenssen
Findrxonline.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my god, you can&#8217;t put a label or a disorder on everybody who has a personality and doesn&#8217;t fit a generic mold. That&#8217;s like saying everyone who is quiet and keeps to themselves must be autistic or have social anxiety disorder. LAME. I happen to work with autistic children, most of which have Aspergers and I can tell you that just by watching Amanda speak in the courtroom that she does NOT have autism. Most notably how she uses a lot of expressive hand motion when speaking. Aspies do not do this! They use very little to no body language, they have difficult time reading other people&#8217;s body language. Their facial expressions are flat, their voice is monotone, they often make inappropriate eye contact- either too much or not enough, their posture is awkward, etc. Amanda displays none of these characteristics. You should probably pick up a book on the disorder, before trying to go around diagnosing everyone with it.</p>
<p>Stwart Jenssen<br />
Findrxonline.net</p>
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		<title>By: Cody</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2181014</link>
		<dc:creator>Cody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 16:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2181014</guid>
		<description>debra, concerning the unification of one&#039;s public &amp; private lives, it&#039;s a little bizarre how frequently people endorse the notion as if it were anything other than their own decision. It reminds me of a scene in the movie &lt;i&gt;Contact&lt;/i&gt;, where two main characters make the following exchange (after David has taken advantage of Ellie&#039;s honesty to win over a committee):

&lt;blockquote&gt;David Drumlin: I know you must think this is all very unfair. Maybe that&#039;s an understatement. What you don&#039;t know is I agree. I wish the world was a place where fair was the bottom line, where the kind of idealism you showed at the hearing was rewarded, not taken advantage of. Unfortunately, we don&#039;t live in that world. 
Ellie Arroway: Funny, I&#039;ve always believed that the world is what we make of it. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

How odd is it that social norms inhibit us so strongly, and yet they are nothing but our construction? To me it&#039;s all a strong motivation for dismantling dogma, ritual, and the rest of it, especially when one considers how many taboos are nearly universal among humans.

But on a personal level, all one needs is a desire to understand the reasoning behind one&#039;s own behavior, and a modicum of introspective skill, from there it is up to us to decide how open to be—or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>debra, concerning the unification of one&#8217;s public &amp; private lives, it&#8217;s a little bizarre how frequently people endorse the notion as if it were anything other than their own decision. It reminds me of a scene in the movie <i>Contact</i>, where two main characters make the following exchange (after David has taken advantage of Ellie&#8217;s honesty to win over a committee):</p>
<blockquote><p>David Drumlin: I know you must think this is all very unfair. Maybe that&#8217;s an understatement. What you don&#8217;t know is I agree. I wish the world was a place where fair was the bottom line, where the kind of idealism you showed at the hearing was rewarded, not taken advantage of. Unfortunately, we don&#8217;t live in that world.<br />
Ellie Arroway: Funny, I&#8217;ve always believed that the world is what we make of it. </p></blockquote>
<p>How odd is it that social norms inhibit us so strongly, and yet they are nothing but our construction? To me it&#8217;s all a strong motivation for dismantling dogma, ritual, and the rest of it, especially when one considers how many taboos are nearly universal among humans.</p>
<p>But on a personal level, all one needs is a desire to understand the reasoning behind one&#8217;s own behavior, and a modicum of introspective skill, from there it is up to us to decide how open to be—or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2180716</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2180716</guid>
		<description>Well said, Jose. High-functioning means NOT mentally handicapped. Since I&#039;m practically anonymous here, I&#039;m not going to feel bad about talking myself up a little. I have Asperger&#039;s and I have an IQ of 168. I&#039;m sure the two are related, and I wouldn&#039;t have been gifted with such a high IQ without the genes for Asperger&#039;s. People I meet don&#039;t realize I&#039;m on the Autism spectrum until I tell them, because I&#039;m intelligent enough to step back and redesign my own behavioral patterns to better interface with neurotypicals like yourself. In other words, I&#039;m able to fake it because I can identify how I differ from &quot;normal&quot; people. People just see a quirky, unusually smart guy with an odd sense of humor and a penchant for excessive honesty. (Translation, Templar7: Because I&#039;m smarter than you, I probably make more money than you, and because I&#039;m not a judgmental jerk, I probably have more friends than you, too. I imagine the same is true for most of the people who have posted on this page.) I don&#039;t lack a theory of mind at all, I just have a different version that fits folks like me instead of &quot;normal&quot; people. I&#039;d love it if people would finally get over this preconceived notion that there&#039;s a &quot;right&quot; way to think, and a &quot;right&quot; way to live, and a &quot;right&quot; way to socialize, and realize that &quot;right&quot; only applies to our morals, not our methods. We each do things our own way, and there is no natural law or heavenly mandate that says that the most common way to do things is the best way. Normality isn&#039;t so special that it makes you better than us. We on the Autism spectrum are your peers, not your lessers, and you should value us because we offer a rare, outside perspective on your own way of thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, Jose. High-functioning means NOT mentally handicapped. Since I&#8217;m practically anonymous here, I&#8217;m not going to feel bad about talking myself up a little. I have Asperger&#8217;s and I have an IQ of 168. I&#8217;m sure the two are related, and I wouldn&#8217;t have been gifted with such a high IQ without the genes for Asperger&#8217;s. People I meet don&#8217;t realize I&#8217;m on the Autism spectrum until I tell them, because I&#8217;m intelligent enough to step back and redesign my own behavioral patterns to better interface with neurotypicals like yourself. In other words, I&#8217;m able to fake it because I can identify how I differ from &#8220;normal&#8221; people. People just see a quirky, unusually smart guy with an odd sense of humor and a penchant for excessive honesty. (Translation, Templar7: Because I&#8217;m smarter than you, I probably make more money than you, and because I&#8217;m not a judgmental jerk, I probably have more friends than you, too. I imagine the same is true for most of the people who have posted on this page.) I don&#8217;t lack a theory of mind at all, I just have a different version that fits folks like me instead of &#8220;normal&#8221; people. I&#8217;d love it if people would finally get over this preconceived notion that there&#8217;s a &#8220;right&#8221; way to think, and a &#8220;right&#8221; way to live, and a &#8220;right&#8221; way to socialize, and realize that &#8220;right&#8221; only applies to our morals, not our methods. We each do things our own way, and there is no natural law or heavenly mandate that says that the most common way to do things is the best way. Normality isn&#8217;t so special that it makes you better than us. We on the Autism spectrum are your peers, not your lessers, and you should value us because we offer a rare, outside perspective on your own way of thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: T-cell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2177978</link>
		<dc:creator>T-cell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 09:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2177978</guid>
		<description>ec gets my applause! Well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ec gets my applause! Well said.</p>
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		<title>By: Triskelion</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2175073</link>
		<dc:creator>Triskelion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 03:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2175073</guid>
		<description>I personally feel the exact way that Cody and some of you others reason about this. I sometimes just don&#039;t get it why I should behave otherwise with people than what is really me. I can see the other perspective, but I have come to see it as invalid and a bit dishonest every time I think about it.  And the atheist hypothesis seems spot on. I simply don&#039;t understand religion on a non-mechanical level. And there is also a big leap from this way of acting consistently to the conscious manipulation of others and callous disregard like in the groups that are mentioned above (socio- and psychopaths).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally feel the exact way that Cody and some of you others reason about this. I sometimes just don&#8217;t get it why I should behave otherwise with people than what is really me. I can see the other perspective, but I have come to see it as invalid and a bit dishonest every time I think about it.  And the atheist hypothesis seems spot on. I simply don&#8217;t understand religion on a non-mechanical level. And there is also a big leap from this way of acting consistently to the conscious manipulation of others and callous disregard like in the groups that are mentioned above (socio- and psychopaths).</p>
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		<title>By: José</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2174416</link>
		<dc:creator>José</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 02:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2174416</guid>
		<description>Debra--That would make sense if the experimenters were playing legos with children, but the test subjects here are high-functioning adults who volunteered to take part in a study. they understand that the experimenters are there to observe them and can infer that that is what they are doing, regardless of whether or not they can tell exactly what the experimenter&#039;s eyes are looking at. 
At least i assume they can, I am not autistic.
Templar7, autistic people are not necessarily mentally handicapped, or poor, or whatever you are suggesting. You also seem to have missed the point, seeing as they were not actually asked to give money to UNICEF, they were given money and asked to decide what to do with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debra&#8211;That would make sense if the experimenters were playing legos with children, but the test subjects here are high-functioning adults who volunteered to take part in a study. they understand that the experimenters are there to observe them and can infer that that is what they are doing, regardless of whether or not they can tell exactly what the experimenter&#8217;s eyes are looking at.<br />
At least i assume they can, I am not autistic.<br />
Templar7, autistic people are not necessarily mentally handicapped, or poor, or whatever you are suggesting. You also seem to have missed the point, seeing as they were not actually asked to give money to UNICEF, they were given money and asked to decide what to do with it.</p>
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		<title>By: ec</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2172457</link>
		<dc:creator>ec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 22:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2172457</guid>
		<description>As a high-functioning programmer with Asperger&#039;s...I have to agree with the idea that changing one&#039;s behavior because someone is watching is fundamentally dishonest. It baffles me when others do it. 

I am who I am, seen or unseen...

Maybe we just aren&#039;t as hypocritical and adept at subterfuge as a group but the real flaw in the study is that they are judging us as a group when we are as individual as any other segment of the population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a high-functioning programmer with Asperger&#8217;s&#8230;I have to agree with the idea that changing one&#8217;s behavior because someone is watching is fundamentally dishonest. It baffles me when others do it. </p>
<p>I am who I am, seen or unseen&#8230;</p>
<p>Maybe we just aren&#8217;t as hypocritical and adept at subterfuge as a group but the real flaw in the study is that they are judging us as a group when we are as individual as any other segment of the population.</p>
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		<title>By: debra</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2172305</link>
		<dc:creator>debra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 22:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2172305</guid>
		<description>Or, they do not realize you are watching them.  I used to work with kids with Aspergers and found consistently if I looked at something and asked them what they thought I was looking it--they missed it every time. Their eyes did not track my eyes and that influenced their behavior and responses significantly. After realizing that, I built in direct instruction training to teach that...so this too might have contributed to the subject&#039;s response....along with the other factors listed above. Personally, if someone&#039;s personal behaviors are ethical and safe, I just love the fact that there is not so much a &quot;personal&quot; face and &quot;public&quot; face. Think how that might better our world if more of us behaved like this!! Thanks for the above comments to everybody--I enjoyed reading them and there are some great points made!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or, they do not realize you are watching them.  I used to work with kids with Aspergers and found consistently if I looked at something and asked them what they thought I was looking it&#8211;they missed it every time. Their eyes did not track my eyes and that influenced their behavior and responses significantly. After realizing that, I built in direct instruction training to teach that&#8230;so this too might have contributed to the subject&#8217;s response&#8230;.along with the other factors listed above. Personally, if someone&#8217;s personal behaviors are ethical and safe, I just love the fact that there is not so much a &#8220;personal&#8221; face and &#8220;public&#8221; face. Think how that might better our world if more of us behaved like this!! Thanks for the above comments to everybody&#8211;I enjoyed reading them and there are some great points made!</p>
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		<title>By: Templar 7</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2171936</link>
		<dc:creator>Templar 7</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 21:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2171936</guid>
		<description>Since when do autistic people make donations to charity? They actually have that much money to work with???Seriously...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since when do autistic people make donations to charity? They actually have that much money to work with???Seriously&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Daugherty</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2171011</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Daugherty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2171011</guid>
		<description>As somebody who&#039;s somewhat autistic, let me put my two cents in as to what the proper interpretation might be.

I think that it isn&#039;t as if the person&#039;s psycho- or sociopathic, that they&#039;re just incapable of caring about such things.  The impulse to be social is strong.  That&#039;s why autistics can sometimes unload on people, rather than filtering and giving and taking.  They&#039;re simply doing what nature programs us all to do: make connections with others.

I would say that the problem is that folks like us don&#039;t synchronize well, at least not as an intuitive, natural skill.  It&#039;s a learned behavior, a sort of persona gained over years of experience at our not so successful efforts at reaching out to others.  Depending on the degree of severity, the asynchrony might be so severe as to completely discourage most social interaction, and that asynchrony is compounded by the fact that people thereafter fail to gain the nuanced, detailed experience that gains a person insight into others and their motivations.

But whether or not it&#039;s that severe, I would say that a person like me depends less on the unreliable signal of synchrony from outside, and the give and take, and more on a kind of remote, offline sort of theory of what behavior that is proper, right, equitable and fair is.

So, to my mind, the explanation of the result might very well be that whatever amount that the autistic person has decided upon relies not on the unreliable signal of synchrony, but their own internal pragmatic, ethical, and moral compasses of decision-making.

In other words, the neurological and experiential bias for an autistic is to think for themselves, and remain true to whatever combination of individual principles and sensibilities they use, and resist adulteration of that judgment without sound, rational understanding as to why.

Which is to say that simply having another person standing in the room is not going to encourage them to give more than they&#039;ve already given them, because they&#039;re pleasing their own self-consistent sense of what&#039;s right and wrong, rather than responding to that of others.  That is not to pass judgment on others, but simply to say that a neurotypical and an autistic are taking different pathways on the road to making the same decision, and the character of the different pathway that the autistic uses alters how others can influence their decision making.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As somebody who&#8217;s somewhat autistic, let me put my two cents in as to what the proper interpretation might be.</p>
<p>I think that it isn&#8217;t as if the person&#8217;s psycho- or sociopathic, that they&#8217;re just incapable of caring about such things.  The impulse to be social is strong.  That&#8217;s why autistics can sometimes unload on people, rather than filtering and giving and taking.  They&#8217;re simply doing what nature programs us all to do: make connections with others.</p>
<p>I would say that the problem is that folks like us don&#8217;t synchronize well, at least not as an intuitive, natural skill.  It&#8217;s a learned behavior, a sort of persona gained over years of experience at our not so successful efforts at reaching out to others.  Depending on the degree of severity, the asynchrony might be so severe as to completely discourage most social interaction, and that asynchrony is compounded by the fact that people thereafter fail to gain the nuanced, detailed experience that gains a person insight into others and their motivations.</p>
<p>But whether or not it&#8217;s that severe, I would say that a person like me depends less on the unreliable signal of synchrony from outside, and the give and take, and more on a kind of remote, offline sort of theory of what behavior that is proper, right, equitable and fair is.</p>
<p>So, to my mind, the explanation of the result might very well be that whatever amount that the autistic person has decided upon relies not on the unreliable signal of synchrony, but their own internal pragmatic, ethical, and moral compasses of decision-making.</p>
<p>In other words, the neurological and experiential bias for an autistic is to think for themselves, and remain true to whatever combination of individual principles and sensibilities they use, and resist adulteration of that judgment without sound, rational understanding as to why.</p>
<p>Which is to say that simply having another person standing in the room is not going to encourage them to give more than they&#8217;ve already given them, because they&#8217;re pleasing their own self-consistent sense of what&#8217;s right and wrong, rather than responding to that of others.  That is not to pass judgment on others, but simply to say that a neurotypical and an autistic are taking different pathways on the road to making the same decision, and the character of the different pathway that the autistic uses alters how others can influence their decision making.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Iliya Krempeaux</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2170690</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Iliya Krempeaux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 18:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2170690</guid>
		<description>Perhaps the title should instead be: &quot;Unlike the Rest of Us, Autistics Don’t Act Like DEVILS When Someone’s NOT Watching&quot;.  I.e., perhaps Autistics act &quot;good&quot; regardless of whether someone is watching or not.

There is some evidence for this. See the following paper (on moral psychology):
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1665934</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the title should instead be: &#8220;Unlike the Rest of Us, Autistics Don’t Act Like DEVILS When Someone’s NOT Watching&#8221;.  I.e., perhaps Autistics act &#8220;good&#8221; regardless of whether someone is watching or not.</p>
<p>There is some evidence for this. See the following paper (on moral psychology):<br />
<a href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1665934" rel="nofollow">http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1665934</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sister Y</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2170477</link>
		<dc:creator>Sister Y</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 18:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2170477</guid>
		<description>Since one functional argument for religion is that it gives us an imaginary person to always &quot;watch&quot; us (like Santa Claus), making us behave better even when no real person is watching us, this seems highly relevant to the observed fact that autism correlates highly with atheism.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since one functional argument for religion is that it gives us an imaginary person to always &#8220;watch&#8221; us (like Santa Claus), making us behave better even when no real person is watching us, this seems highly relevant to the observed fact that autism correlates highly with atheism.</p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/09/atheism-as-mental-deviance/</a></p>
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		<title>By: jd</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2170397</link>
		<dc:creator>jd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 18:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2170397</guid>
		<description>I see Cody beat me to it. I completely agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see Cody beat me to it. I completely agree.</p>
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		<title>By: jd</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2170367</link>
		<dc:creator>jd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 18:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2170367</guid>
		<description>Or C) they view changing one&#039;s behavior based on people watching you or not is the same as lying. Doing something you view as good only because someone sees you do it is  dishonest. Says a high functioning autistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or C) they view changing one&#8217;s behavior based on people watching you or not is the same as lying. Doing something you view as good only because someone sees you do it is  dishonest. Says a high functioning autistic.</p>
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		<title>By: Cody</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/10/17/unlike-the-rest-of-us-autistics-dont-act-like-angels-when-someones-watching/comment-page-1/#comment-2170332</link>
		<dc:creator>Cody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 18:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/?p=32611#comment-2170332</guid>
		<description>The theory of mind aspect kind of bugs me. I suspect I am on the high functioning side of the spectrum, and I would claim I have a strong understanding of theory of mind, (though I often struggle to decide which emotional state someone is in), the problem seems to me to be radically different ways of thinking. 

I suspect most people make the mistaken assumption that they can read other people&#039;s emotional states accurately/reliably, but when you happen to think more generically in the first place you&#039;re obviously more likely to correctly guess (by chance) another person&#039;s emotional state. Thinking of it in terms of the Dunning-Kruger effect it could be that autistic spectrum disorders may be too aware of what other people could potentially be thinking/feeling, and their increased awareness leads to second guessing their conclusions, decreasing their rate of success.

But what&#039;s bugging me is the description that it is a &lt;i&gt;problem&lt;/i&gt; with their theory of mind: what is wrong with thinking my private behavior ought to match my public behavior? Or the idea that I ought to be honest to both myself and others. Whether I gave a lot or a little, I would want others to know the conclusion I drew and my reasoning. I could even justify giving less when watched, as I tend to hate attention, (even the most basic gestures of generosity often elicit a small amount of praise—which I typically dislike). I tend to have a good reputation but very much of it is owed to my genuine honesty, whether positive or negative to my social standing. (Though I find public pity just as discomforting as public praise, and I try to avoid boasting and glooming equally.)

Yet another hypothesis could be: they don&#039;t consider a positive increase in reputation to be valuable if it originates from a lie. 

But I imagine there are still additional hypotheses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The theory of mind aspect kind of bugs me. I suspect I am on the high functioning side of the spectrum, and I would claim I have a strong understanding of theory of mind, (though I often struggle to decide which emotional state someone is in), the problem seems to me to be radically different ways of thinking. </p>
<p>I suspect most people make the mistaken assumption that they can read other people&#8217;s emotional states accurately/reliably, but when you happen to think more generically in the first place you&#8217;re obviously more likely to correctly guess (by chance) another person&#8217;s emotional state. Thinking of it in terms of the Dunning-Kruger effect it could be that autistic spectrum disorders may be too aware of what other people could potentially be thinking/feeling, and their increased awareness leads to second guessing their conclusions, decreasing their rate of success.</p>
<p>But what&#8217;s bugging me is the description that it is a <i>problem</i> with their theory of mind: what is wrong with thinking my private behavior ought to match my public behavior? Or the idea that I ought to be honest to both myself and others. Whether I gave a lot or a little, I would want others to know the conclusion I drew and my reasoning. I could even justify giving less when watched, as I tend to hate attention, (even the most basic gestures of generosity often elicit a small amount of praise—which I typically dislike). I tend to have a good reputation but very much of it is owed to my genuine honesty, whether positive or negative to my social standing. (Though I find public pity just as discomforting as public praise, and I try to avoid boasting and glooming equally.)</p>
<p>Yet another hypothesis could be: they don&#8217;t consider a positive increase in reputation to be valuable if it originates from a lie. </p>
<p>But I imagine there are still additional hypotheses.</p>
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