As a chemical engineer (yes I also loved Sci Am as a kid, specially mathematical games), besides the science (math, chemistry, physics, thermodynamics) I was exposed to the engineering point of view: even if you can not explain why or have a perfectly proved model, you have to make it work! (disgression to numerical methods - math blessing on engineering! they do not worry about the exact function but get the root!!)

So astrology does work - that’s a fact !!

Being social animals, survival comes from our own efforts and our social skills:

1.- You can make a living out of it.
2.- Gives you social standing, you can be a perfect stranger at a reunion and talk asstrology, and you’ll walk out with tens of friends. If you say you just saw a beautiful false color (oxygen, hydrogen and sulphur) picture of Orion’s nebula everybody edges away from you.

Given that it works on the basal (survival) sense, it does not matter that it’s premises do not conform to the scientific method

On a quality of living perspective, in the reunion example, astrology believers will be happy, releasing endorphins to their bloodstream which will make them healthier, whereas you and I would release adrenalin that, not being properly used as our inherited instincts for fleeing (run or be eaten) or fight (get to mate or capture the prey), which would make us healthier by exercise, would then cause stress (which we could define as a self damaging exercise), thus lowering our life expectancy and making us clearly not happy.

On a historical sense, astrology was the mother of Astronomy, so we have to respect our parents, even if we don´t quite agree on the way they behave - ( I know, this is a shaky argument, nobody wrote about it so it’s not historical and there is no law that says you have to be civil to your parents) - hahaha

I agree with BA on the point that uncritical thinking should not fluorish,
but as long as people are happy with it and politicians don’t use it to take important decisions (mhh), I say do not get too angry with the situation.

Education is the only weapon, and it is slow… but it can change our world.

But that there is a relationship between two things does not mean that the one causes the other, like you seem to assume with your talk about forces. They could have a common explanation.

Now with planets, I can’t see what that should be. But especially for a determinist, who belives that everything is preordained by someone or something, it could be “logical” that because Mars was in the house of the butterfly in the moment of my father’s birth, I have a tendency to a foul temper - because _it was set up to work like that_. But of course, you are right that no such correlations are there with astrology, because astrology is, indeed, bunk, as you say.

I don’t know why I ended up here, on your blog…………. I was looking for something that I can’t put a “finger” on concerning the date 05-05-05. But, since I have dropped by and read a few things, I have a few suggestions that you may someday comprehend…………… First and foremost: Remove your nose from the canvas of the painting, open both eyes, slowly and carefully step back……removing yourself from the picture/ portrait/ painting. Now, look at the big picture with a neutral attitude……… “Astrology is not a legitimate, mathematical science” would have been a more concise statement for your “succinct summation” than your “Astrology is wrong”(!) (AND you will LIKE IT!!!!!!…….or I will BEAT you with my rubber hose because I am your DADDY!!!) selection of words. In my mind, I have no doubt, what-so-ever, that YOU can’t grasp the true value of what astrology could be to anyone other than yourself. If you were forced to choose between opening your wallet to pay for an astrology session or peeing on an electrified fence; I sense that you’d have to think about it. “Mind over matter”: Don’t discount the entertainment value that could be had by reading a horoscope. And, what about the pyschological catalysts that could be triggered in a person who “believes”? ……….. If I read that: “Tonight, you will meet someone very special………..”; it might subconsciously trigger a sense of confidence which could “domino” into things like taking my bi-monthly shower ahead of schedule, trimming my hair…………which could serve as a reminder to go out and get a hair cut for the other end of my body, wash some clothes, find my deodorant, clean my mom’s car, ect., ect.,…….. all of which leads up to the “all important” remove myself from the basement and get out to mingle with the wild animals…………you can’t win the lottery if you don’t buy a lottery ticket / do you understand my point yet? So, as a “black hole”…………: No, not even close. A $30,000 (U.S.) a day hooker (oops,…….personal companion,……and not even a “top of the line” one at that), casinos, crystal meth, self managed socialist security, “Dubya”………….. those are black holes. True astrology fits better under psychology than anything else……….. I’m just trying to help.

Um……… I spent less than 25 seconds reading your blog before I sensed where your wind was blowing. So, if I missed your boat and made an ass of myself……………….well,………..”hee haw”.

And, just for the record: For me, astrology is less valuable than a pile of dung. I wouldn’t have to think about it; I’d pee on the fence. But, that’s “for me”. As for everyone else: If astrology floats your boat…….great. Whatever (legal, non-violent) works for you works for me.

And for the record, I dont believe in astrology, I’m not arguing for it, but I understand where they are comming from with regards to the cosmology and I think you are being unfair.

Um, no, that’s *exactly* what it says. If they don’t interact, then they cannot get information about each other. That’s pretty much by definition.

And as far as the title “skeptic” goes, I’ll take it. It means I don’t accept things on faith, but instead only use evidence to base my judgement. Where’s the evidence for astrology? It’s had 2000 years; I’d expect to see one thing at least. But there’s nothing.