Hoo boy!
The hotel the TAM was in had a really crappy internet connection. I paid for the first day, and had such a rotten connection I didn’t bother with the rest of the days (the room had dialup!). So I had to let this blog lie fallow for a couple of days, for which I apologize. The timing could not have been worse: the meeting has been incredible, a blog comment war was started over my last post, and I’d like it if I had fun and exciting entries for people coming here from the Bloggie award site.
I’m sitting in the Vega$ airport right now, and they have free wireless! Woohoo! The only thing in this town that is free. So I wrote an entry the other day, and now I can finally upload it. If I had more time I’d add pictures, but that will still have to wait until later. Again, my apologies. Hopefully tonight I’ll have time to post some more, but until then, here are some thoughts about something Penn Jillette said.
After lunch on the second day, Penn took questions for a few minutes. He was in typical form; loud, obnoxious, and very funny. He talked about future episodes of his Showtime program (I won’t give the name here, but the link makes it clear), as well as skepticism in general.
Penn said an interesting thing: he was asked how a famous trick he and Teller do is done. He didn’t give the actual answer, of course. But he talked about how people are almost always disappointed when they find out the secret of a trick. It’s not that revealing the magic itself is disappointing, it’s that the way the trick is done is generally "ugly". It’s not magic, not something hugely slick; it’s tape, or a misdirection, or a reach into a pocket.
People don’t want to believe a trick can be done in such a clumsy, ugly, obvious way. It’s not the knowledge itself that disappoints; knowledge, Penn said, is always good, always beautiful.
I agree with him. I watched a friend of mine do some simple tricks, and I was shocked at how simple and how ugly some of them were done. I guess my problem was that the trick was actually a lot simpler than I thought. I was expecting some incredibly deft sleight of hand, requiring hours of practice to perfect. I was not expecting a magnet! I mean, that’s cheating!
I felt silly thinking that. It’s a trick, you idiot! I told myself. It’s cheating no matter what.
It’s like watching a movie, and seeing how the special effect is done. I find that disappointing, sometimes. But in that case, it’s because when I watch the movie, I am suspending my disbelief. I don’t mean to sound formal, but when I watch a movie, I enter a contract with the movie maker: they will entertain me, and I’ll try not to ask too many questions. I’ll buy into their premise, and they won’t violate that trust.
The real world isn’t like that. There is no contract; the universe obeys a set of rules, and those rules will hold sway whether you believe in them or not. So finding out what’s happening behind the scenes can’t be a let down. There’s no violation of disbelief, because there’s no disbelief.
Sometimes people tell me that when they learn the science behind something, they feel disappointed. I think that’s silly. Knowing more is never disappointing. When you look at the stars, they may look pretty. And that’s great! But look at that star there. It’s one thousand trillion kilometers away. Or that one: it’s so young, it’s still surrounded by the gas and dust cloud from which it formed. That one there will blow up in less than ten thousand years. That one is blue because its temperature is twice that of the Sun’s. That one there has a system of planets orbiting it. This one weirdly has three times the amount of magnesium in it than current theory predicts.
When I think of those things, my heart swells with that knowledge. And not just the knowledge itself, but the fact that we can, in fact, have that knowledge. Knowing those things enriches my experience and magnifies my sense of awe and wonder, exponentially increasing my enjoyment of the stars.
How can knowing something ever be disappointing?
January 30th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
From an epistemic perspective this post of yours is a little disappointing.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
“How can knowing something ever be disappointing?” I don’t know; hence, its disappointing to think it.
I suppose when knowledge is found to be contrary to our beliefs, some may hold to disappointment. Yet, even here, optimisim should prevail for knowing the truth is the real hope to true freedom; new paths can be more fun than old ruts.
Sounds like you had a great trip. Hope to hear more.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:22 pm
I think Feynman said something to the effect of: How can a true poet remain silent at the idea of a giant ball of methane.
He probably said it more eloquently, but the fact remains: I’m always disappointed when magic tricks are revealed, yet understanding Nature gives me such a sense of fulfillment. I truly don’t understand people who consciously decide to remain ignorant of (aspects of) science so as not to “ruin the beauty.”
January 30th, 2006 at 4:40 pm
I’ve never understood people’s disappointment at learning how a trick is done. I think it’s fascinating, the mechanics, engineering, psychology, etc. behind such things, and it only makes me more interested to see how it works. I spent hours at http://www.doombuggies.com reading how the Haunted Mansion was built and how the spooks work. It’s only made me want to go back and see it all again with a fresh perspective.
I also remember Penn & Teller’s appearance on the show West Wing. They took an American flag, folded it up and put it in a cardboard tube. Penn put the tube under his arm, they stood in front of some kind of backdrop, faced the camera and said a few words, then they pulled out the tube and set fire to it.
My wife’s jaw dropped and she asked if they really burned the flag (as of course was the public’s reaction in the show). But I couldn’t believe no one missed it–for one thing, that tube burned up about as fast as an cardboard tube would. There was obviously no flag in there; it would have taken much longer to burn. When they faced the camera, someone behind the backdrop reached in and pulled the flag out! It was so obvious–there was no other reason for that odd under-the-arm thing. I don’t know anything about magic tricks, and even I couldn’t miss that…but apparently a lot of people did.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:45 pm
It seems those disappointed are thinking of science as magic. Once they understand the “how” or “why” it loses its mystique.
It’s as if solving the mystery closes the case for some, but for others, it’s the start of a new chapter.
January 30th, 2006 at 4:53 pm
I guess that might be part of it: a solution in science always leads to new questions. Once you know a magic trick, that’s it.
January 30th, 2006 at 5:54 pm
I actually love it when a magic trick is revealed. I hate being tricked, or made to feel like a fool. And that’s what “magic” does does to me, and I don’t like it. There will always be some underlying feeling like I’m missing something that I should be getting. I don’t get that feeling with science, because sooner or later, we’ll understand what were dealing with.
I hate it when a magician just says “it’s magic”. I’m like: “No it isn’t you moron. There’s no such thing as magic. Now tell me how the hell did you do that!”
January 30th, 2006 at 6:09 pm
Interesting report. But whatever happened to the Great Randi and what did he have to say? Were there other notable speakers? What did they have to say? Did the skepchicks make their prescence noticed? Too many interesting sidelights missing. May we expect a more full account of what happened?
January 30th, 2006 at 6:36 pm
Leon said: “It was so obvious–there was no other reason for that odd under-the-arm thing. I don’t know anything about magic tricks, and even I couldn’t miss that…but apparently a lot of people did.”
Remember there were people who couldn’t work out how film makers could make a handful of pebbles fall up? That was on the BA Blog about a month or two ago…
January 30th, 2006 at 6:51 pm
santa’s not real? that was a real bummer.
January 30th, 2006 at 7:55 pm
I worked for Industrial Light & Magic back in 2001. It was heaven. Some of us peons were allowed to watch how the special effects were progressively created. I am a movie fanatic, so I was heaven (yes, I’m repeating myself).
But, there was a side effect. I couldn’t watch the finished movies. I knew how the magic was done. It was hard to suspend disbelief. I had to wait for some time to go by before I could watch them without thinking about how the effects were done. Plus it didn’t help that I need some of the plot points and not necessarily in order.
In summary, I enjoyed both aspects, the final product and the development. But, it was hard to enjoy both at the same time.
By the way, did I mention I was temporarily in heaven?
January 30th, 2006 at 8:10 pm
Phil asked: “How can knowing something ever be disappointing?”
“Mr. Plait? This is your doctor. I’m afraid the tests have confirmed the worst.”
Well, you asked…
January 30th, 2006 at 8:33 pm
“sorry
We at Showtime Online express our apologies; however, these pages are intended for access only from within the United States”
I can’t believe it. I’m not even allowed to watch a show sypnosis online now. This is ridiculous.
Anyway, I love spoilers.
Therefore, I always want to know how magicians do their tricks! I’d love that. Hahaha.
January 30th, 2006 at 9:52 pm
I’d rather know than not know.
January 30th, 2006 at 10:09 pm
For PK:
“Poets say science takes away from the beauty of the stars— mere globs of gas atoms. Nothing is ‘mere’. I too can see the stars on a desert night, and feel them. But do I see less or more? The vastness of the heavens stretches my imagination— stuck on this carousel my little eye can catch one-million-year-old light. A vast pattern— of which I am a part… What is the pattern or the meaning or the why? It does not do harm to the mystery to know a little more about it. For far more marvelous is the truth than any artists of the past imagined it. Why do the poets of the present not speak of it? What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent.” -Richard Feynman (from Wikiquote)
January 30th, 2006 at 10:37 pm
“dial-up”? Dark ages indeed!
January 31st, 2006 at 12:49 am
I don’t mind not knowing how a magic trick is done, but also I can usually still appreciate a trick even if I know. I like to see if I can figure it out without being told first.
One of the very best things about DVDs is that all those talented behind-the-scenes professionals such as SFX artists, stuntmen/women, choreographers, graphic designers, etc. can now be properly recognized for the excellent magic they bring to the big screen too. The director of ILM should be just as famous as George Lucas, in my opinion.
When I see a documentary about all the hard work that goes into a well designed effect it only increases my respect for those individuals who hadn’t really been given their due in the past. When I see a dangerous stunt or a beautifully rendered graphic on screen I can appreciate how difficult it was to give us what might be no more than a 4 second shot.
I agree that more knowledge is always an improvement. And hey, if it turns out I was wrong about something then, “Admitting you were wrong merely means that you are a little wiser today than you were yesterday.”
January 31st, 2006 at 3:10 am
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.†— Arthur C Clarke
Which is possibly why people are losing interest in science and technology. They just accept it’s magic and carry on using it / avoiding it depending on whether they are of the opinion that the ‘magic’ is good or bad. Science is progressing so fast that your average school science education is outdated as soon as (or even before) people leave school. Science and technology will therefore always remain like magic to most people.
January 31st, 2006 at 4:48 am
Thanks Eric! Like I said, much more eloquent.
January 31st, 2006 at 7:10 am
David A..
thought that was Terry Pratchett..
A.C.C had it the other way ’round..
January 31st, 2006 at 7:12 am
Maybe not.
Confused now..
*goes to bed*
January 31st, 2006 at 7:13 am
Ignorance is bliss?
January 31st, 2006 at 7:49 am
Teller in particular is so fast, and so smooth, that even if you know how a trick is being done, it’a pleasure to watch him.
I saw a film clip that P&T put together some time ago where they were doing the balls-under-the-cups sleight of hand thing (whatever it’s really supposed to be called), but, as a twist, doing it with clear glasses, so you could SEE where the ball was at all times. Other “magicians” were outraged: “You’re giving away the secret!” They were silenced, though, when they saw the final video: Teller was so quick, that even though you could see the ball appear under the cup — and knew he had lifted the cup, dropped the ball under it, or picked it up, and put the cup back down — it was so fast, you couldn’t actually see him do it. It was a really remarkable performance….
January 31st, 2006 at 8:06 am
AitchJay: Terry Pratchett = “Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technologyâ€
Which makes sense given how technology is described in his books
January 31st, 2006 at 8:09 am
Yes, it’s better to know, bit it’s *disappointing*, which was the point.
Sorry. Just nitpicking.
January 31st, 2006 at 9:10 am
HvP said: “The director of ILM should be just as famous as George Lucas, in my opinion.”
I think the guy who created ILM should be as famous as George Lucas.
January 31st, 2006 at 10:44 am
Thomas Siefert Says:
“dial-up� Dark ages indeed!
Dial-up has its uses. Its ubiquity can’t be beat.
–I mean, don’t knock dial-up or I’ll beat you with my club. UHHH!
January 31st, 2006 at 11:16 am
I started taking my grandson to enjoy magic shows and then to magic shops to learn some illusions. He then went to a summer camp that offered some magic instruction. I was thrilled because I figured if he could do some magic, then he would be less susceptible to being fooled. The unintended consequence was that when he came back from camp he started cold reading his little friends.
I noticed one difference after I started learning some magic: when watching a good card trick, I was mentally taking the trick apart, figuring out how it was done instead of just being amazed. I still enjoy magic as much, just a little differently.
I’m looking forward to reading BA’s stories all about TAM 4, and especially to being able to buy the video from JREF.
January 31st, 2006 at 11:44 am
To: David A
I’d like to note that my son’s 10th grade science class actually ran an electrophoresis gel in their gene unit in biology. Our education system is keeping up with technology. The problem is that, after we leave school, so many of us neglect to learn anything new.
January 31st, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Tom, hey that’s really good stuff. Electrophoresis is to protein science and molecular biology what a telescope is to astronomy.
I much prefer using pre-cast gels that we buy in. Saves all that ludicrously dangerous mucking about with acrylamide solutions (and I’m not old enough to have ever weighed out acrylamide powder). My guess is schools couldn’t do this until pre-cast gels were available.
Not to non-chemists : acrylamide is a potent neurotoxin.
January 31st, 2006 at 12:15 pm
I’m not knocking dial-up, it’s just that I’ve been to some seedy hotels lately here in London and they still had at least wireless hi-speed internet connection. I would have thought that Las Vegas would be in the frontline in this regard.
I still have fond memories of my first modem, 2400 baud, spending a night downloading a space invader clone from my local BBS.
January 31st, 2006 at 12:19 pm
Back on-topic, I once saw a TV programme in which Penn drove a truck over Teller. It was a real truck, and Teller lay down right on front of its left front tyre, and Penn drove 2 or 3 sets of wheels over him. I knew it was a trick, but couldn’t see how it was done.
Then they showed us the view from the camera that was in front of the truck, so we could see the 10 tons (or so) of counterweights fixed to the right side of the truck – all of the weight was balanced on the right-hand set of tyres, so practically none of the truck’s weight was supported by Teller.
I was impressed with the trick, and even more impressed at how fundamentally simple it was.
January 31st, 2006 at 1:38 pm
One time, there was a magician who came to the video editing studio where I work. He wanted to edit down a video he once made that trained casino security guards how to spot crooked dealers. On the tape, he explained everything he was demonstrating, demonstrated it in slow motion, and I *still* couldn’t see how he did what he did! I wish I could remember his name.
January 31st, 2006 at 2:33 pm
We were at TAM as well and went to see Penn & Teller’s show while we were in Vegas. They did the ‘man in a box’ trick where they put Teller in a box and then broke the box apart into 3 smaller boxes. Then they did it with clear boxes so we could see how it was done. It was EXCELLENT. It was definitely one of those things where you always knew it worked like that somehow but seeing it really made you appreciate all the squirming and jumping around that Teller had to do to make it all work.
January 31st, 2006 at 2:52 pm
Touché, Thomas
January 31st, 2006 at 8:40 pm
Just very quickly skimming…
People don’t want to believe a trick can be done in such a clumsy, ugly, obvious way.
Funny. I like such simple, elegant methods. Some things are so obvious, you never think of them, like this one cup-and-balls trick I suddenly figured out, thanks to Randi’s Princeton lecture. (He didn’t give it away. He just got me to question an assumption I didn’t realize I made.)
I tend to respect the “street magician” sorts over the elaborate stage setups for that reason.
February 1st, 2006 at 2:31 am
Knowing about how something works disappoints?
If so then not all the time.
Knowing why a Solar or Lunar Eclipse works or What the Aurora Borealis is doesn’t , at least to me, lessen the experience.
To see the colors change in the sky, the Sun miraculously disappear, the Corona appear and shadow bands & Bailey’s Beads etc. that’s part of the fun of Astronomy.
February 1st, 2006 at 4:58 am
i so agree with you Phil – ‘Knowing those things enriches my experience and magnifies my sense of awe and wonder, exponentially increasing my enjoyment’ – and the best bit is that knowing something usually only raises further questions! Cheers
February 1st, 2006 at 10:29 am
And let’s not forget that knowing how things work can give us more opportunity to enjoy them. How many people would get to see full solar eclipses if we weren’t able to predict them with a high degree of accuracy? And many wonderful happenings can be computer-simulated because we know how they work.
February 1st, 2006 at 10:55 am
Also, why can’t we be amazed at our ability to understand and do things? I still find it incredible to look at the moon and know that some creatures like me have been there.
As for magic and technology, a recent Strong Bad Email on Homestarrunner.com explains that …
February 1st, 2006 at 11:52 am
“Teller was so quick, that even though you could see the ball appear under the cup — and knew he had lifted the cup, dropped the ball under it, or picked it up, and put the cup back down — it was so fast, you couldn’t actually see him do it. It was a really remarkable performance…. ”
This reminds me of watching Jim Henson on the “Tonight Show” many years ago (when “The Muppet Show” was still on TV). Henson was not a ventriloquist, but an excellent puppeteer. After the performance (which was Dr. Tooth and the band), he sat down next to Carson with the puppet still on his arm. Johnny proceeded to interview Dr. Tooth, and Henson replied to the questions, in full view. Even though you could see his mouth moving, you completely bought into the character on his arm.
He brought down the house when Carson asked, “So what do you do between shows?” “Well, mostly I stay in a box. I’m a puppet, Johnny!”
- Jack
February 2nd, 2006 at 6:37 am
Your comment makes sense.
Enjoying “magic” tricks is the delight of a pleasant surprise. It’s entertainment a child-like level.
Enjoying the achievement of comprehesion take an adult’s ability to appreciate the beauty and interconnectedness of the universe.
Gary
February 11th, 2006 at 1:34 pm
I attended TAM4 also and got to watch the show by Jamy Ian Swiss. I “Know” how he did those tricks in front of 40 people up close and personal with him. Knowing how does not in the least diminish the effect of the illusions and his mastery of the art.
Of course, he cheated. He used real magic…