This just in!
George Deutsch, the NASA public affairs officer who knew too little, has resigned his post at NASA. Dean Acosta, another PAO, said that NASA doesn’t discuss personal issues, but it’s clear why Deutsch had to quit: he lied on his resume. As Nick Anthis from the blog "The Scientific Activist" discovered, Deutsch did not graduate from Texas A&M as he claimed. He left the school before graduating, since he was offered the NASA position by the Bush administration.
Andrew Revkin of the New York Times, who broke the original story about Deutsch, has the goods this time as well:
According to his résumé, Mr. Deutsch received a “Bachelor of Arts in journalism, Class of 2003.”
Yesterday, officials at Texas A&M said that was not the case.
[…]
A copy of Mr. Deutsch’s résumé was provided to The Times by someone working in NASA headquarters who, along with many other NASA employees, said Mr. Deutsch played a small but significant role in an intensifying effort at the agency to exert political control over the flow of information to the public.
Revkin credits blogger Nick Anthis for discovering Deutsch’s lie, so let it never be said that bloggers are incidental in the journalism game. Nick, the BA’s hat’s off to you. Nice work.
I know this won’t stop the political practice of putting unqualified people into positions of influence over science, but you know what? Every little bit helps.
Score one for the good guys, folks.
February 7th, 2006 at 9:37 pm
Wait.. They can check that stuff?!?
I hope nobody checks my resume and finds out that I’m not the legendary Bad Astronomer..
February 7th, 2006 at 9:39 pm
Great news!
Mr. Douche… er, I mean, Mr. Deutsch can wave goodbye to any future he had hoped for in politics.
February 7th, 2006 at 9:43 pm
What, you don’t think a public slapping from his boss and total humiliation had anything to do with his decision to quit? You did a heck of a job, Deutschie.
February 7th, 2006 at 9:59 pm
So who’s up next for the position??? :O
February 7th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
This is good news ! And did you also hear that the House Republican whois on the subcommittee which oversees the NSA has called for a full congressional investigation into the domestic eavesdropping program! Thinga are looking up!!
February 7th, 2006 at 10:30 pm
I think NASA did more thorough background checks on us than on this guy, don’tcha think, Phil?
[I was just about as fumed as you were on this whole non-sense.]
February 7th, 2006 at 10:32 pm
It’s gonna sound mean… Very mean in fact.
But good riddance.
February 7th, 2006 at 10:42 pm
see? there is a santa!
February 7th, 2006 at 10:54 pm
Bish! Hi! Nice to see you here.
I was never a NASA employee, though. I was employed by ACC (before they got bought up by some huge megacorp). I doubt they ran a background check on me. They wouldn’t hired me in the first place.
February 7th, 2006 at 11:14 pm
I note that there is no longer any need for people in power to state their position on this matter now that Deutsch has resigned.
How utterly predictable.
February 7th, 2006 at 11:44 pm
What is it with these Bush appointed people and lying?
February 7th, 2006 at 11:52 pm
Excellent news. Hopefully future appointees will be scrutinized more thoroughly in light of these incidents.
February 7th, 2006 at 11:53 pm
[…] Well, remember the post about the outrage at NASA over political apointees running amock? Well, quoth the Bad Astronomer: Deutsch Resigns! Now, this is not because of any specific misdeed that this little turd did. No, instead he lied on his résumé. […]
February 7th, 2006 at 11:55 pm
Hahahahahahahha!!!!! That’s great! And let’s thank DrPhil (Plait that is) for starting the blog, that led to the post, that found the fraud, that exposed the liar, for what he was, and got him [s]fired[/s] to resign.
February 7th, 2006 at 11:58 pm
Phew. Best news I’ve heard today.
February 8th, 2006 at 12:03 am
Man, I’m really glad to hear this! Good job you all on getting that guy off NASA!
And yeah, as Arlo said, who’s up for the position?
February 8th, 2006 at 12:11 am
Excellent. I didn’t get a chance to respond to your earlier post, Phil, so let me just say, I fully agreed and want to thank you for your work here defending science (and keeping us all entertained!). I emailed CNN.com the other day to express my disappointment that they had yet to cover the NASA story… and today they did (though as an overarching issue, they didn’t mention Deutsch)! They wrote an article that also includes two paragraphs on the problem of underqualified political appointees from the perspective of a Dr. Keusch, formerly of NIH. Check it out: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/07/science.administration.tm/index.html
February 8th, 2006 at 12:13 am
Good news, but I suspect, like any other political appointee or zampolit, he’ll be given a nice cushy job somewhere else. Only this time maybe not as public.
February 8th, 2006 at 12:46 am
Well, it’s lame that we get the non-resolution of Deutsch being offered up as a sacrifice. But given the political climate, it’s better than the, well, nothing at all we’d get otherwise.
Am I the only one who finds himself thinking “Ding Dong the Douche is Dead,” though?
February 8th, 2006 at 1:00 am
That’s one small step for man, still a marathon to go for mankind
February 8th, 2006 at 1:52 am
Correction, I guess it went from The Scientific Activist’s blog to Nick Anthis here about the guy not having a degree.
And to that I posted:
“Hey, someone see if the guy padded his resume. Wouldn’t that be cause for dismissal even if you had been appointed?”
Easy call, that the resume might have said degree obtained. I knew, I just knew it. Of course, lying seems to be the one “sin” that is mostly overlooked by the groups trying to push the Bible into the science category. That and stealing public money.
February 8th, 2006 at 1:53 am
[…] Nachtrag: Oben genannter DerUrkanllIstNurEineTheorie-Idiot musste eben seinen Hut nehmen weil er in seinem Lebenslauf gelogen hat. […]
February 8th, 2006 at 1:56 am
Second correction, whoops, Nick is the Scientific Activist I see from re-reading Phil’s blog. [Gilda Radner voice] Nevermind [/Gilda Radner voice]
The house that jack built parody above is reinstated.
February 8th, 2006 at 2:36 am
I love Dr. James Hansen’s kicker at the end: “The foundation of a democracy is an informed public, which obviously means an honestly informed public. That’s the big issue here.”
To that I say, in a strictly secular way, Amen!
February 8th, 2006 at 3:24 am
Good new, indeed! And there was never any question of anybody else resigning. It’s just another mark on Bush’ record,
Also, before I started work at NASA’s JPL, I had a background check that took three months. I was a foreign national, so that was to be expected, even before 9/11. But it is clear that they should do the same with US citizens.
February 8th, 2006 at 3:36 am
This is great news to start the middle of the week!
February 8th, 2006 at 4:04 am
Excellent!!!
But…why do we allow foreign nationals to work for JPL?
You mean we don’t have qualified folks in the United States?
Sheesh, it’s bad enough that our jobs are going overseas but that’s ridiculous.
PK, I do hope that you are now an American Citizen at least.
February 8th, 2006 at 4:13 am
“it’s bad enough that our jobs are going overseas but that’s ridiculous”
While I agree to an extent, my thoughts are that Science and Math should have no Religious or Political boundaries. NASA is supposed to have “the best of the best”.
February 8th, 2006 at 4:15 am
Actually I would hope that a foreign national got a job at JPL as he was the best/most qualified/most experienced for the job.
All else should be secondary when you consider the importance of the work and the need for 100% accuracy/reliability/fitness for purpose.
As a UK citizen working in another country I would hope this is the case across the board for critical positions. From a security standpoint I can see why some positions should be barred from non-nationals but I am sure that adequate checks can be made for less sensitive positions.
February 8th, 2006 at 5:11 am
Well, was that swift justice or what?
But does it cure the disease, or only the symptom? I was, and still am, amazed at the outpouring of mostly serious thinking re the NASA appointment by Bush, albeit ill-advised.
So the score is People 1- Govt. 0.
And thanks Phil for getting us off our butts, and a ready forum to express ourselves.
Now what’s the next item on the adgenda?
February 8th, 2006 at 5:15 am
Amazing. I’ve been asked to produce my actual degree as recently as 2 months ago. People check stuff like that all the time around here. I’m kind of surprised that his CV wasn’t checked.
February 8th, 2006 at 5:44 am
Excellent news. I can breathe again.
Did someone say something about “whack-a-mole”?
February 8th, 2006 at 5:46 am
“Every little bit helps”… indeed!
Excellent news! It is nice to know that these things can be quickly investigated, the damaged repaired and the incompetent and liars condemened. I wish we could have a swift system working like that over here. There´s a lot of “cleaning” needed in many places.
And yes, I agree, blogs are playing an increasing role in the
“regulation” of our society.
P. Edward Murray… with all respect, NASA would not be what it is if it would not employ “foreign nationals”. It would be a great institution, it would had achieved many things, but it would not have gone as far as it is…
You just have to look at its history.
And like Matt and Stuart Greig said, “the best of the best” and “the best/most qualified/most experienced” should get the job, no matter the nationality or any other secondary issues for this matter.
I´m not disregarding the security issue here, of course.
Actually, the US is what it is, particularly in Science, because it has always given the chance “for the best of the best” from all over the world to give their contribution for the development of the country. And as far as I know, US authorities are getting more and more concerned about America “loosing the edge” in Science because of the increasing risk of loosing many foreing brains that start to feel tempted to go back to their countries or that start to feel attracted by other uprising countries/economies.
So, getting rid of the incompetents and atracting the best should be the “way to go”, no matter national boundaries.
“Think global, don´t think local”.
José Carlos Correia
- A citizen of the world … and perhaps of the entire Universe
February 8th, 2006 at 5:49 am
I guess one of the lessons here is that you will only win if you fight. All the blog attention likely played a big role in getting Deutsch out. His attempts to promote a political and antiscience agenda was definately the reason he ‘resigned’ - the credentials issue was just the excuse NASA needed to oust him without worry of repercussions like an unfair dismissal suit.
February 8th, 2006 at 5:59 am
[…] George Deutsch Resigns! Tags:incompetence» NASA» Politics» Space» I woke up to the good news this morning, compliments of the Bad Astronomer. The New York Times has the story as well. I had called for Deutsch’s resignation in my Monday Space Policy Roudup. However, as much as I’d like to think he read my blog and felt remorse, his real reason for resignation was that he lied on his resume. He did not actually graduate from Texas A&M university. He assumed his position at NASA in 2003 after being a leader in the Young Republicans. Apparently graduating and actually getting his bachelor’s degree was too much work, as was actually being qualified for his job. […]
February 8th, 2006 at 6:25 am
[…] As a follow up to my mention of this, the schmuck who was appointed by the Bush administration has resigned. It seems he lied on his resume, although I’m fairly confident that the public humiliation for his subversive attempt to quash sound science may have had something to do with it as well. […]
February 8th, 2006 at 6:26 am
Good to hear!
There’s hope after all. I hope a more qualified, and intelligent, person is appointed. Too bad they can’t get the BA, huh?
February 8th, 2006 at 6:29 am
Uh, let me dispel a myth for the Americans here. Most of the research, science and mathematics could not be done without importing masses of foreign nationals. You see, Americans aren’t that keen on the nitty gritty of science any more, and it’s not all that well paid. Plus, has it occured to you that there is practically zero attention paid to science on the network channels or in the mass media? It’s far easier to find a religious program than a science one on US television. (To be honest- you still have lots of great scientists, and I love Mythbusters, so it’s not 100% bad, but you should be worried.)
February 8th, 2006 at 6:42 am
Well another ill advised appointee bites the dust. Now for the previous 1000 and counting…
By the way NASA would have been nothing without all those Germans and Russian who escaped to freedom……
More Power to the pen of the person who shone a real bright light on the situation…………..
February 8th, 2006 at 6:44 am
Alright, so one bad apple is wrenched from a very bad crop!
Keep on pickin’!
Well done Nick, thanks for taking the good fight to ‘em for those of us who can’t.
February 8th, 2006 at 7:19 am
Did you consider the possibility that Deutsch was appointed at this post especially because he was “unqualified”? If you appoint someone to a position of power, shouldn’t you make it easy to get rid of the person the minute he messes up? Maybe I’m being paranoid, but how did Nick know to ask Texas A&M for Deutsch’s credentials? Wouldn’t it be possible someone leaked the info to him? And maybe he was even paid to shut up about the “leak” so I guess he should deny it if asked…
ok, enough with my conspiracy theories, have a good day!
February 8th, 2006 at 7:26 am
Good job to Nick Anthis, Phil, and the NY Times for shedding light on this. Keep it up.
Of course, in today’s NY Times on the page opposite the article about Deutsch resigning is an article with the headline “Evangelical Leaders join global warming initiative”. So I guess the tide is turning about global warming when even Bush’s core supporters are starting to believe the scientists.
February 8th, 2006 at 8:00 am
Interesting how often government appointees are caught faking their educational background on their resumes. Or “attending” schools that are just diploma mills. Me for that mail-order M.D.!
February 8th, 2006 at 8:09 am
Why does everyone think this is good news? The real culprits go free. Does anyone think that this was a one man operation mastermined by a 24 year old A&M dropout? We offed the patsy. The people who assigned him this task are still uinknown.
February 8th, 2006 at 8:54 am
Should we start worrying about a future announcement of Deutsch being named to the head of FEMA.
February 8th, 2006 at 9:17 am
“Maybe I’m being paranoid, but how did Nick know to ask Texas A&M for Deutsch’s credentials?”
If you know A&M and thought to search the Batt, it was pretty easy to see that something was up, as Deutsch’s opinion columns continued for a semester and a half after he claimed he’d graduated. I figured he was just fibbing about his graduation date, which I thought was bad enough. (It’s common practice at A&M to call yourself “Class of (year you entered university + 4)”, even if you graduate a year or so afterward, so I thought he’d taken advantage of that discrepancy to give the illusion of more experience.)
And since Nick graduated from A&M and was a Batt columnist, I suspect he just asked one of his friends from the paper.
February 8th, 2006 at 9:40 am
P. Edward Murray Says: PK, I do hope that you are now an American Citizen at least.
LOL! Why would I give up my Dutch citizenship? It’s much safer abroad when you’re from a small harmless country!
February 8th, 2006 at 9:42 am
“But…why do we allow foreign nationals to work for JPL?”
You are on a very slippery slope here! Unless your family tree is 100% Native American on both sides, your ancestors were also foreign nationals. By you’re reasoning, Albert Einstein should never have been offered that cushy job at Princeton! Much of America’s pre-eminence in science is built on the work of “foreign nationals”!
February 8th, 2006 at 9:44 am
This is great news, for NASA. Congrats to Nick, for exposing him.
February 8th, 2006 at 9:54 am
PK, there’s people out there that can’t tell the difference between a Dutch and a Dane.
February 8th, 2006 at 9:55 am
Is it ok to cheer? This makes me very happy, knowing that Deutsch will no longer be doing PR for NASA.
February 8th, 2006 at 9:58 am
Thomas Siefert Says: there’s people out there that can’t tell the difference between a Dutch and a Dane.
I know, it happens to me all the time! And not just in the US…
February 8th, 2006 at 10:09 am
@PK,
Unless there are thousands of protestors burning your embassies and threatening mas violence at the mere publication of insulting cartoons of Mohammed. Was that not the Dutch embassy burned in Syria? The pen is truly mighter than the sword.
But on topic. I rather like the outcome here. Political operatives from both parties have exploited or suppressed scientists for their own agendas. They will continue to do so. It is a backhanded tribute to science that it’s power and effectiveness will be envied and hated by those motivated towards power. I like the idea of an army of Davids keeping the Goliaths in power… scared. That is how it should be.
February 8th, 2006 at 10:19 am
PK, happens to me too and by the way our liquorice is better than yours
February 8th, 2006 at 10:19 am
monolithfoo Says: Was that not the Dutch embassy burned in Syria? The pen is truly mighter than the sword.
You’re kidding, right? That was the Danish embassy!
February 8th, 2006 at 10:20 am
In your dreams, Thomas!
February 8th, 2006 at 10:27 am
urk. Count me as one who gets the Danish and Dutch mixed up. My apologies PK. And my apologies to any Danes reading.
February 8th, 2006 at 10:35 am
February 8th, 2006 at 10:40 am
There was a lot of concern not that long ago about government employees with dubious (”mail-order”) or nonexistent degrees, though I don’t think it got much press outside of the Beltway.
February 8th, 2006 at 10:46 am
Good to hear, this one shocked me cold when I read the earlier blog.
February 8th, 2006 at 11:04 am
Chicago Astronomer Joe said…
I admire Nick from Scientific Activist for his work in spotlighting this breech of trust.
My post in his blog:
—
Nick,
You are to be congratulated and recognized for revealing what should never have been allowed to occur. You did the job that NASA wasn’t allowed to find out.
Was the punk a patsy?…perhaps. A cog in a large wheel of ignorance, but you got him! And in a sense, you got them all. In my activities, I have been instrumental in the removal of incompetence and corruption from high positions in this fair city…and let me tell you, I sleep better. Sometimes, the little guy wins!…
I have highlighted this thread on my astronomical forum, and if you were here in Chicago, I would buy you a drink!
Kudos, my friend.
Joe Guzmán
Administrator
The Chicago Astronomer
http://astronomer.proboards23.com
——
A great job all around in this good piece of journalism.
February 8th, 2006 at 11:08 am
One should in my opinion not mix up science with politics here. Naturally, Big-Bang cosmologists would like to see their theory being the ‘official truth’ and other groups theirs (not only for idealistic reasons but also in order to secure further funding for their work). In the end however it is solely NASA who are responsible for what they publish or not.
One can just hope that this affair doesn’t affect the scientific discourse as such.
February 8th, 2006 at 11:10 am
{I’ve also posted this on my personal blog if anyone wants to comment there — uh, not to hijack your blog or anything}
The observation is valid, yet incomplete. American television is dominated by fictional entertainment: comedy, drama, and such. Even the bulk of the “non-fiction†on television, sports, “news shows,†and “reality televisionâ€, are portrayed in a dramatic and sensationalized fashion to make them more entertaining – along the lines of the dramas and sit-coms upon which American’s thrive (often by creating drama that isn’t really there).
Yes, religious programs outnumber the science shows, but even religious programs are in the minority compared to entertainment shows that provoke almost no thought.
The central issue here is that American’s want to be entertained above all else. The vast majority do not want to learn about the world around them – be it science, news, history, or otherwise. Like children who don’t eat vegetables, the American’s want their candy and nothing else.
We can’t blame the TV networks for this – they’re just putting the programs on that bring in the viewers. Unless something changes in American culture so that life-long learning and education is seen as valuable, that will never change.
In truth, I don’t see that happening any time soon. No immediate motivation exists to facilitate such a change. Why bother to learn or accomplish when you can vegetate in front of the TV and consume candy?
February 8th, 2006 at 11:29 am
George Deutsch hands in his resignation!
George Deutsch, the presidential appointee, resigned from NASA after being caught in a lie. A few days ago I wrote about Deutsch and his censoring of information coming from NASA. It was said that Deutsch was a 2003 journalism graduate…
February 8th, 2006 at 11:41 am
Two words:
Suh. Weet.
*g*
February 8th, 2006 at 11:56 am
[This is good]
February 8th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
[…] Bad Astronomy Blog » Blog Archive » Deutsch resigns from NASA! […]
February 8th, 2006 at 12:19 pm
Interesting comment on this topic over at Pharyngula…
(even stellar “evolution” was a problem)
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/02/we_gave_deutsch_too_much_credi.php#comment-10238
February 8th, 2006 at 12:22 pm
I would like to see a picture of this guy…I have a feeling he would look like the pilbury dough boys for some reason.
February 8th, 2006 at 12:35 pm
Phobos, many creationists love to call astronomers “stellar evolutionists”, which is as transparent a tactic as they use. It’s a ridiculous phrase, and makes it clear all they have to fight science is dogma and framing.
February 8th, 2006 at 1:21 pm
I think it is interesting that neocons treat NASA like “journalists”. I always thought they were researchers, which is not exactly the same as journalists. Although there undoubtedly are similarities, the treatment of NASA as an institution of press-character demonstrates the paranoia of neocons about “journalists out of control”.
Considering “religion vs. science”, I am a hard scientist and religious at the same time. I used to be atheist for some time. I used to be a lot of things. Ideologies change. I think research in its direction should not be subject to day-to-day attitude. Same goes to religion. Would I start or stop to believe in god or completely change my political attitude when a new insight from Mars or about molecules is made? I come to the conclusion that ideology/religion and science have to be separated to some degree for the sake of a functioning of both.
P.S.: apologies for combining ideology and religion into one, did for brevity reasons.
February 8th, 2006 at 1:28 pm
In truth, I don’t see that happening any time soon. No immediate motivation exists to facilitate such a change. Why bother to learn or accomplish when you can vegetate in front of the TV and consume candy?
I’m glad I tend to plunk down in front of (the better parts of) the History and Discovery Channels… at least until Adult Swim comes on.
February 8th, 2006 at 1:46 pm
monolithfoo Says:
“… Political operatives from both parties have exploited or suppressed scientists for their own agendas. They will continue to do so….”
No political party until now has sought to convert the government into an Evangelical Christian mouthpiece.
Cindy Says:
“… the headline “Evangelical Leaders join global warming initiativeâ€. So I guess the tide is turning about global warming when even Bush’s core supporters are starting to believe the scientists….”
I wouldn’t be so quick to buy this conclusion. Two different issues are involved. One is government control by large corporate interests and the other is government control by an unprecedented religious movement.
Some in the religious movement are also on the side of corporate profits they themselves share in. Pat Robertson is an example, having been convicted now of diverting $400,000 dollars of religious charitable donations to his private mining operation in Africa. I doubt all in the Evangelical movement are so corrupt as Robertson.
Nonetheless both factions use each other to gain and maintain power and influence. Bush seems to be the ‘perfect storm’ so to speak for linking the two in an incredibly schizophrenic way. On the one side he appoints people and directs money and legislation to benefit the corporate interests. Brownie, for example, awarded a very large FEMA no bid contract to his predecessor, who happened to be the one who directed Bush to appoint Brownie and had just left FEMA to enter the private sector after a very short term in the FEMA position setting up the contract. Two officials involved in the Medicare Drug Bill that were instrumental in passing the legislation pushed by the Bush administration resigned and went to work for the companies that benefited from the bill as soon as it was passed. Billions and billions of the dollars going to pay for the Iraq war are going to companies with direct connections to the Bush administration. The list is endless.
On the other side Bush appoints people and directs money and legislation to benefit the Evangelical religious movement that it appears Bush genuinely believes in. The complete saturation of all? federal agencies with “faith based” programs in an unprecedented way gives evidence of Bush’s convictions. Deutsch was a member of the Young Republicans when he was selected to fill the NASA position. That group, to my understanding, is more Evangelical than Republican, but no less political.
The Bush attack on science thus is an assault from two fronts. One manned by corporate money and lobby influence, colored with corruption on a scale I’ve not seen in my lifetime, and the other manned by a fanatical religious movement that imagines persecution and has been insidiously working for ~25 years to correct that mythical persecution. They are well funded and extremely well organized. They have a plan and we are now seeing just how busy this group has been over the last 3 decades. Scientific evidence clearly discredits much of the Bible’s text. Science is therefore seen as a threat to the religious beliefs of those who are invested in that Biblical text.
I imagine the Evangelical group is split on such things as global warming. You have Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell proclaiming man cannot destroy the Earth by pollution, God is too powerful, and man too weak to allow that. However, that is an interpretation and there is nothing in Biblical text that makes such a statement. It is not surprising then to find some Evangelicals who see people as caretakers of the Earth.
This may be a small crack in the extreme unity of the Evangelical movement. It may indeed be a good sign. But I doubt it is a sign the religious movement is starting to question Biblical accounts that science contradicts.
February 8th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
This made my day, it did! Score one for /real/ science.
February 8th, 2006 at 2:34 pm
This is funny and this is poetic, but the man needed to be canned for what he did not what he didn’t do.
February 8th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
@skeptigirl,
About trying to turn the government into a christian mouth piece. That may be true, but as far as I’m concerened, censored and corrupted science for the sake of ANY political agenda is equally evil. The soviet union did not need a christian agenda to make a miserable mess of science with very deadly concequences.
February 8th, 2006 at 3:28 pm
[b]Gig ‘em Nick [/b], (pretty literal, too). Nice to see an Aggie be the one credited for the discovery!
George, class of ‘74 Texas A&M (ok, it was really Dec. ‘74 for the record; I didn’t graduate on time, but I did graduate with most of my class.:))
February 8th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Kaptain K & everyone,
There is a HUGE difference between “foreign national” and immigrant.
An immigrant is a foreign national that decides he wants to become an American citizen usually. I have no problem with anyone who wants to immigrate and does so legally. Today there apparently are lots of companies that go out of their way NOT to hire American citizens even to go to India to seek out candidates for employment when there are lots of Americans who could do the job.
I’m sorry, I did not intend to offend anyone but this current administration does everything it can to make sure that American citizens have a rough time keeping their jobs.
I’m one of those “Outsourced” folks.
Every nation has the right and obligation to employ its own people and any nation that can’t has a severe problem.
February 8th, 2006 at 4:45 pm
P. Edward Murray, sorry to hear about your job. I am not too pleased with the idea of outsourcing either. However, there is a policy in the US that a university/government lab can hire foreign nationals only if there are no valid US citizens available. I guess I’m pretty special.
So don’t worry too much much about US jobs going to foreigners, because your government is still quite protectionist.
February 8th, 2006 at 5:33 pm
PK,
Thank you, believe it or not I am Danish too!
Good Luck to you!
February 8th, 2006 at 5:44 pm
Skeptigirl,
Please explain how science discredits the Bible? Are you talking about Genesis? Just how, pray tell.
I’ve said it once and I will say it again:
There isn’t any problem with Religion and Science.
Ever hear of the “Pope ‘Scope”?…aka The Vatican Observatory?
Ever hear of the order of The Jesuits, the order devoted to Teaching?
Better do some homework…a fair amount of scientists were Catholic Priests.
I believe that there are two extremes in this debate, those who are the Fundamentalist Fanatics and those who are the Fundamentalist Left who do not believe in God and who will throw anything available at you if you do.
Both are extreme and in my opinion both have their heads in the sand.
February 8th, 2006 at 6:05 pm
Thanks Phil for the heads up. This is great news to the world of Science and Astronomy. Let’s hope the next runner up is more in tune with the mission of NASA.
February 8th, 2006 at 6:21 pm
PK said:
“However, there is a policy in the US that a university/government lab can hire foreign nationals only if there are no valid US citizens available.”
This doesn’t just apply to government workers. My dad is currently applying for a green card using the “There is no one in the US who can do this job” part of the law. Looks like he will get it too, since there is no one in the US who can do that job:). But anyway, he works for a oil sub-pump manufacturing company, not any government institution.
February 8th, 2006 at 7:34 pm
Great job on this! Too bad Deutsch won’t be our whipping boy anymore. If anyone’s interested. I made a funny video about this idiot at my homepage. Click on my name to see it. Man the internets move fast . . . one day and it’s already out of date, but still fun.
February 9th, 2006 at 12:33 am
And Deutsch did such a Heckofajob, he got enough media attention to get the Director to issue CYA statements and the papers (saddly little other media) ran with the story and will go to press with any new developments.
The rest of Deutsch’s Gestapo friends are on notice that we’re on to them, and that’s a very good thing. Autocrats don’t work effectively in the daylight.
February 9th, 2006 at 12:49 am
monolithfoo Says:
“@skeptigirl,
About trying to turn the government into a christian mouth piece. That may be true, but as far as I’m concerened, censored and corrupted science for the sake of ANY political agenda is equally evil.”
??? Did I not spend half my post agreeing with this??? I thought I had.
P. Edward Murray Says:
“Skeptigirl,
Please explain how science discredits the Bible? Are you talking about Genesis? Just how, pray tell….”
So this whole business about Intelligent Design, Creationism, the dating methods are flawed and the Earth is 6,000 years old (and dinosaur fossils are either the work of the devil or dinosaur’s existed at the same time as humans), Noah’s ark and flood (the one that carved out the Grand Canyon) is not an attempt to make the evidence fit the belief?
Biblical accounts, meet the evidence. Sorry you two don’t have a lot in common.
Surely all the work and money the Evangelicals have put into “wedging” themselves into science circles wasn’t because they just had a whim to?
Other Christian religions have chosen to call those Biblical accounts myths or “stories” that supposedly have meaning but aren’t literal accounts. I did not intend to imply all believers of religion were threatened by science, but clearly the Evangelical crowd has “issues”.
P. Edward Murray continued:
“I believe that there are two extremes in this debate, those who are the Fundamentalist Fanatics and those who are the Fundamentalist Left who do not believe in God and who will throw anything available at you if you do.
Both are extreme and in my opinion both have their heads in the sand.”
As an atheist who believes in an evidence based interpretation of the world, I do not consider religious moderates to be in between me and fundamentalists. You can believe anything you want.
**BTW, as a disclosure, I’ve used beskeptical, beskeptigal and skeptigirl on forums for a while and did not intend to log on this blog under different names. It was accidental and I just noticed. Sorry.
February 9th, 2006 at 3:14 am
P. Edward Murray and skeptigirl, you are talking past each other. While biblical statements regarding the natural world (in its broadest sense) are for the most part shown to be false, this does not preclude a belief in a deity.
On a related note, the “Fundamentalist Left who do not believe in God” (PEM) is an oversimplification. You seem to equate the political left with rampant atheism. Even though that is true for communists, the political left is a house with many chambers. More to the point, so is the political right. There are lots of libertarian atheists just as fundamentalist. Do we see here a manifestation of your own prejudices?
For the record, I am an atheist , leftwing, and Dutch (no Danish ;))
February 9th, 2006 at 3:56 am
I have to add an explanation re my previous comment on Sunday 5th Feb. 10:21 in Phil”s first mention of the NASA story. My last sentence in my comment included a reference to a certain ” Pauline “, and her catch phrase, well known to Australians, ” Please explain! “.
Now I have to explain. You see, her last name is HANSEN, something that escaped my attention when I quoted her. Pauline Hansen was a politician here that was notorious for putting her foot in it so to speak, and would ask to have the obvious explained. I hope nobody thought it was a slur on Dr James HANSEN, the NASA Scientist who was the subject of our petty- minded PR person, Mr Deutsch. I had not noticed the co-incidence of the names. My apologies anyway.
I wonder if we will get a satisfactory explanation.
February 9th, 2006 at 5:37 am
I think we need to dig deeper. I’m sure that an organization like NASA would never hire any individual without thoroughly checking their resume unless pressure was brought to bear. I suggest that there may have been a discussion with someone that went along the lines of “Hire this man or you’ll find your job in jeopardy.
Who exactly brought that pressure to bear and against whom was the threat leveled?
Martyism
February 9th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
PK Says:
“P. Edward Murray and skeptigirl, you are talking past each other. While biblical statements regarding the natural world (in its broadest sense) are for the most part shown to be false, this does not preclude a belief in a deity.”
While I much appreciate your objective opinion as I often post in emotional haste, I would call attention to the following snip from my above post”
Other Christian religions have chosen to call those Biblical accounts myths or “stories†that supposedly have meaning but aren’t literal accounts. I did not intend to imply all believers of religion were threatened by science, but clearly the Evangelical crowd has “issuesâ€.
February 9th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
To icesmith: I thought it was Pauline Hanson and not Hansen, I don’t think she would like to be mistaken for a Dane right now.
February 9th, 2006 at 7:15 pm
[…] Good thing the National Media’s Investigative arm caught him! oh, wait, it was a blogger. […]
February 10th, 2006 at 1:00 pm
Martyism Said:
>I think we need to dig deeper. I’m sure that an organization like NASA would never hire any individual without thoroughly checking their resume unless pressure was brought to bear.
Actually, that part doesn’t seem unlikely. He’s getting a position as a press release reviewer, not a security clearance. I don’t think NASA even did a background check on me when I was hired (civil servant co-op, some years ago). They did one for me to get access to Mission Control, but that was recently (currently contractor). I wouldn’t be surprised if they took his resume at face value, especially if he was an appointee.
Which is something else I have yet to see fully explained. How exactly was he an appointee? It is said he was appointed by the White House, how exactly does that work? I’d like more details on that aspect, rather than whether anyone at NASA reviewed his resume and fact-checked it.
February 11th, 2006 at 12:06 am
This was just another Bush hush up. His stooge was hushing up NASA’s findings about more global warming. Boo, Hiss!
February 11th, 2006 at 8:13 am
Not sure how this Deutsch blog got into questions of “foreign nationals” having jobs in the US, but since it came up, here’s my 2cents.
I have lived here for 24 years: I am a UK citizen, immigrated legally back in ‘82, got my “green card” a few years after. I pay the same taxes everyone else does - the same Fed withholding, FICA, and Medicare, state and local, same 1040 each April. etc. I contribute useful work (I hope) to the economy and my earnings go to all sorts of US companies (well, nowadays that means a good chunk to China, huh?) and I don’t send anything out of the country except Christmas presents to relatives.
Now some posts here suggest I “should” take citizenship. Here are some points about that:
- Although I’m probably here for the duration, sometimes I wonder about retirement to a little cottage in the English - or maybe Welsh - countryside (Gets less affordable each year what with the dollar an’ all, but still). Obviously that is much easier for a UK national. May become a bigger issue if the US slides into a semi-fascist nutty-religious autocracy (though hopefully that will be corrected as the Bush craziness becomes more widely understood).
- The UK passport is actually a European Union passport. So with the US green card and the EU passport, I can live and work, if I need to, in the US, or in any of the countries of the EU with no further ado, no visas, etc. Now, taking US citizenship does not explicitly require you to give up another one - dual, even triple citizenship is becoming much more common - but it works fine the way it is.
- There is one pro and one con to the green card. Pro: you can’t get called for jury duty. For a self-employed hourly-paid person this is significant (and regarding “civic duty”, I am sure there are more than enough US citizens able to fill any slot I might have had). Con: obviously, you can’t vote. I try to make up for that by discussions and writings to promote the good cause (when I can find it).
I just thought of another Pro - the way Iraq is going, I see people my age getting called up and sent there! Wonder if, if I took citizenship, they would track my British Royal Navy service and consider me eligible….no thanks!
Hope this information is helpful. Oh, and on Deutsch - everyone, keep up the pressure! Expose those useless, harmful flacks, because for sure there are plenty more of them!
February 14th, 2006 at 10:30 am
christian burnham Says:
Americans aren’t that keen on the nitty gritty of science any more, and it’s not all that well paid. Plus, has it occured to you that there is practically zero attention paid to science on the network channels or in the mass media? It’s far easier to find a religious program than a science one on US television. (To be honest- you still have lots of great scientists, and I love Mythbusters, so it’s not 100% bad, but you should be worried.)
I am worried. I’m dismayed by the lack of educational (including scientific) programming available on TV, and here in California we have pretty good programming, compared to what I’ve heard about many other states.
It does also worry me that people just don’t seem to be interested in science any more. I think part of the problem is that we’ve gotten so used to instant gratification. We demand complete, immediate answers. Science doesn’t always provide those–but wait, religion does! And so, I think that’s had a lot to do with our country’s increasing apathy toward science.
I am worried–not so much for myself as for what kind of country and society my daughter will have to live in.
February 16th, 2006 at 7:22 pm
why do people make these pages so long?
February 23rd, 2006 at 6:42 pm
We have lots to say. Or we just want to annoy you. You decide.
May 7th, 2006 at 3:09 pm
I just wish he’d been removed for promoting ID over science, instead of this “let’s cover our posteriors and distance ourselves from this guy” thing.
May 24th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
[…] Nachtrag: Oben genannter DerUrknallIstNurEineTheorie-Idiot musste eben seinen Hut nehmen weil er in seinem Lebenslauf gelogen hat. […]