Here’s why I love the way Rebecca Watson writes:
Then one day I read an actual description of what homeopathy is. Imagine a neighbor you’ve known for a few years. He’s quiet and always says hello when you see him in the yard. Then one day the cops knock on your door and start asking you questions: have you ever seen him in possession of large amounts of hamsters? Do you hear strange “squeaking†sounds coming from his basement at night? Has he ever asked to borrow your wood chipper? You are shocked to discover that your quiet neighbor, who you never really gave a second thought, is bat-sh** insane. Your neighbor is homeopathy.
See? I would have said something pithy like, "Homeopathy is crap". I guess I don’t have that Skepchick touch to my writing skills.
May 24th, 2006 at 1:26 pm
What!?! I don’t even have one hamster!!
May 24th, 2006 at 1:28 pm
I think I just fell in love with Rebecca Watson all over again. Bring on next year’s stepchick calendar!!
May 24th, 2006 at 1:38 pm
Rebecca is truly a pleasure to read, talk to, hang out with, etc. Something about that no B.S. attitude coupled with the smarts. Rock on.
May 24th, 2006 at 1:49 pm
(I posted this comment on Rebecca’s blog, hope you don’t mind me posting it here too).
My experience is that explaining what homeopathy really is doesn’t get you anywhere. Friends/family/colleagues will promptly counter you with sh*t loads of anecdotal evidence about how they experienced that it absolutely works. How do you carefully explain your loved ones that their perception is eluding them? (â€Placebo? So you are saying I am crazy?â€) They are not going to believe you… This is the thing that bothers me most about homeopathy, and alternative medicine in general. People believe in it because they think that their experience proves it works.
May 24th, 2006 at 1:49 pm
I once had Astrology for a roommate.
May 24th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
I had an Autism-Mercury link as the upstairs neighbor, stomping around at all hours of the day. Glad I called a bluff of his, and he moved out… or has he?
May 24th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
I have a client who will not buy any electronics when Mercury is in retrograde. So I bought her a PC in between the backslides. Two years later, the PC crapped out on her. Much too early. I brought up the fact that we acquired the device during a “safe” time, so why did it fail early? She told me it started to act up during an “unsafe” time, and she kept using it. Now I know that Mercury holds sway over hard disk failures! Wow! ;-{>} (winky smiley guy with mustache and beard)
May 24th, 2006 at 3:39 pm
Did you hear the one about the homeopath that forgot to take his meds?
He died of an overdose.
May 24th, 2006 at 5:28 pm
I once roomed with Herbal Remedies, who wasn’t so bad, a little fastidious. However, his alter-ego Binge Drinker was a hoot.
My roommate was the Sybil of Wellness.
May 24th, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Jack,
LOL. great joke.
May 24th, 2006 at 7:06 pm
I tried a homeopathic allergy remedy (nasal spray). Much to my surprise it worked. So when it ran out I refilled it with a much cheaper saline nasal spray. That worked equally well. It was the simple act of moistening the nasal membranes, not anything in (or not in) the homeopathic solution.
And, yes, I have an unblinded sample size of 1. :^)
May 24th, 2006 at 7:38 pm
I think homeopathy works for some people. It’s much the same as with “regular” medicine - ibuprofen, for instance, works wonders on my headaches, while it makes my sister feel even worse. I also might note that taking a vitamin B-12 complex (bought in chewable-tablet form at my local health store) improves my circulation, which in turn fixes what is called “restless leg syndrome”. See? Much cheaper than a prescription (at nine bucks for a two-month supply) and is naturally good for me.
By the way, I have Astrology/Occult/Uber-feminist for an English professor.
May 24th, 2006 at 8:23 pm
I have to laugh when I see homeopathic remedies for dogs and cats advertised. I have to wonder about is the placebo effect working on the owner?
I was almost tempted to buy some homeopathic teething tablets when my daughter was cutting her two year molars (a cranky toddler will make you desperate).
May 24th, 2006 at 10:34 pm
“I think homeopathy works for some people.”
No. Some people think homeopathy works for them. That makes sense. You believing that it works for some people does not.
“It’s much the same as ‘regular’ medicine…”
It is nothing like regular medicine.
Ibuprofin, for example, has ibuprofin in it. A homeopathic medicine has nothing in it. Oh, sugar. water maybe. A magical price tag.
At first Seamyst I thought your post was a joke, but I saw another comment you left on BA about your “agnosticism” towards some other quackery.
Just so you know, that’s not being open-minded, it’s just ignorant.
May 25th, 2006 at 2:49 am
amazing. that is exactly how i felt the first time i found out what chiropractic is. All this time i thought it was physiotherapy’s harmless neighbour, now i know it’s really the scary guy you catch watching you through your window while you’re getting dressed. Just goes to show, it’s always the quiet ones…
May 25th, 2006 at 5:14 am
[…] […]
May 25th, 2006 at 6:02 am
My daughter and son-in-law had a little box of an assortment of homeopathic remedies, and used them to treat my grandchildren for a variety of kiddy maladies. The little vials had interesting names: Calm Child, Rescue Remedy. I tried talking to my daughter about the futility of using them, and she acknowledged that when you read the printed information, it doesn’t make sense, but it seems to work. In an anthropology class, I had learned about 85% of infectious disease is self limiting; that it, if your immune system is working right, the cold or whatever runs its course and goes away. The other 15%, untreated, could kill you. Shamans count on that recovery rate, and have a good story about going to the hunting ground in the sky for the rest.
I think there must be an element of that with homeopathy. About 85% of disease will be gone anyway, whether the patient takes some homeopathic remedies or not. The risk is that while the patient is buying and using the fake meds, the disease, if it’s a bad one, is getting a foothold.
Another issue is that regular doctors and medicine are becoming priced out of the range of many people, and nonprescription remedies are an affordable option.
Rebecca has a Bad Astronomy link on her website. How come BA doesn’t have a link to Skepchick? Or did I not notice it?
May 25th, 2006 at 8:10 am
Wendy, look under “Anti-antiscience” on the right.
My brother is a new-agey guy. A couple years ago he was sick over christmas. He was taking homeopathic remedies. He actually admitted taking placebos.
The truth is the true believers don’t care that there’s no medicine there, the method of how homeopathy “works” isn’t important, only the anecdotes that it does. The magical thinking is enough.
I just read the article by SkepChick, and her previous one. Great stuff.
If you really want mind-boggling, go to the BBC article she links, then hit the “Lesser-known alternatives” link in the sidebar. They drag in quotes from the promoter sites to describe the practices. Talk about an abuse of medical and scientific terms.
I really like the “Hopi Ear Candles” - not just regular old ear candling, but Hopi ear candling, with that tie in to some ancient civilization to give it “legitimacy”. For those not aware, ear candling is a technique to supposedly remove ear wax, clear the sinuses, and remove “toxins” from your head and brain. The candle is a wax-coated cloth cone inserted into the ear. The outer edge is lit and burned - typically a 12 inch candle burned down to 4 inches. The supposed principle is that the heat from the burning candle creates a slight vacuum that sucks air from inside the ear, and the heat helps melt ear wax. This suction pulls out the toxins and mucus from the rest of your head. Right. Anatomic impossibility - there’s this thing called the “ear drum” that prevents there being contact with your sinuses, never mind the brain. Physics also says it’s rubbish - a candle does create a very small vacuum right under the flame since the heated air rises, but that vacuum does not go very far and is very weak. Ear candling makes as much sense as trying to remove a smear of butter off your kitchen table by holding a candle over it. The stuff found in the candle remainder afterwards that believers point to as the wax and “toxins” from your ear? That is ash from the candle. Despite all this, plenty of people think ear candles are the best way to keep their ears clean and remove impacted wax.
May 25th, 2006 at 8:14 am
A friend taught electrical skills in Ras Tanura Saudi Arabia. His supervisor was showing off a young Saudis knowledge to HIS boss.
“Abdullah, what is electricity?”
Abdullah thought hard and said,” It is the force that makes thing go.”
“Yes, Abdullah, but what is it REALLY?”
After some more moments of hard thought, Abdullah responded with,” I think it’s f@#^ing magic, man,,,”
,,,which ties back to Arthur Clarks definition of magic,,,
Homeopathy or ANYTHING that triggers belief can produce the placebo effect, which is just more “magic”, ie, we don’t really understand how the mind can effect the body in such fundemental ways as to alleviate pain or accelerate healing. I think we really need more research on the placebo effect itself. Then maybe we could reduce dependence on pharmecueticals,,,’cause they’re so damn expensive!
Ah, vitamins, I read the Life Extension book back in 1980 but had already been using mega doses of vit C, B complex and E for years before that. Subsequent research has shown some genetic interaction with our nutrient input and state of immunity. For some folks they’re useful, for others,,,a waste of money. I doubt in my case it’s a placebo effect, since that diminishes over about 2 years to zero and my health function IS tied to that Vitamin input over the last 25 years or so. Again, anecdotal, but it works for me,,,I think,,,ask me again in another 25 years or so,,,
I notice Linus Pauling lived into his 90s, and died from an accident,,,he seemed to take great joy, dancing on the graves of his critics.
They point of this diatribe is that we have much to discover about how our genes, diet, exercise, beliefs, etc, affect our health but homeopathy is based on the idea that water “remembers” what was in it and that is the basis for it’s curative effect,,,all the RESEARCH I’ve seen indicates that’s a crock,,,and I do mean ALL. There ain’t no magic there.
GAry 7
May 25th, 2006 at 8:31 am
I had learned about 85% of infectious disease is self limiting; that it, if your immune system is working right, the cold or whatever runs its course and goes away
That’s exactly the reason homeopathy received such a following in the first place. In the 1800s when it was invented, a trip to the doctor involved some pretty nasty stuff like bloodletting, and you can bet the instruments weren’t sterile. Compared to that, doing absolutely nothing at all would result in a much larger percentage of recoveries.
May 25th, 2006 at 10:52 am
Moonflake: Good point. Women in that time who either self delivered their babies or had midwives(dedicated to HUMAN deliveries) as opposed to Vetrinarian Doctors “assisting” in the delivery had a MUCH higher survival rate. The germ theory was slow to gain adherents,,,
I had a personal doctor ,40 years ago, who stated that of all the problems people came to him with, 80% cured themselves, 10% he could help them with(broken bones, antibiotics, other surgury) and 10% he could do nothing about, but offer his syspathy. For 63 years, the only help I’ve had from doctors, was the treatment of malaria, a vasectomy and the appropriate drug treatment for diabetes and an enlarged prostate(Hytrin and Avodart are really great drugs. I avoid surgury whenever possible).
Most of the health problems people take to Doctors are a waste of the doctors time and the patients money. I learned that from my Great grandmother, who lived to 78 years, weighed 240 lbs all her life and didn’t die until shortly after a doc made her lose 40 lbs. (Thanks Doc). She treated ALL of her problems except her diabetes, herself.
It’s still true, after all our advances, humans still live 3 score and 10, or a bit more. It’s just that a few more make it that long. However, I hope that advances in genetic knowledge may make it possible for some to live a great deal longer,,,
,,,sure hope they’re worth it,,,
GAry 7
May 25th, 2006 at 11:49 am
The advances for adults aren’t as much the big deal, it is for infants and children. According to the WHO, the mean mortality rate for children under 5 has dropped by nearly 2/3 in the last 50 years alone (1955-2004). In 1955 it was 18%, nearly 1 in 5. In 2004 it is just over 6%, or a little over 1 in 20. That is a little over a 14% increase in survival, or a little under 1 in 6. I would not personally call that “a few more”.
May 25th, 2006 at 10:29 pm
Oh yeah, overpopulation, the companion phenomenon of increased life expectancy. There is a mean little part of me that is thinking about the Darwin Awards… but I am still interested in trying to understand what medical advice will really help me and my loved ones, and how to avoid quackery.
It is amazing that enough people have their skepticism rheostat turned so low that they keep the purveyors of homeopathic remedies and ear candles and stickers to put on your telephone to prevent brain cancer in business. I know there are skeptics of skepticism that read and write on this blog from time to time, and I hope that they read the comments and learn from them.
May 25th, 2006 at 10:52 pm
Gary said: “I notice Linus Pauling lived into his 90s, and died from an accident…”
Um. He died of prostate cancer. He very publicly attempted to subdue the cancer with super mega over doses of vitamin C, which did absolutely nothing. It was a big story.
Which Linus Pauling who lived into his 90’s are you talking about?
May 26th, 2006 at 8:16 am
DJ:
Linus Paulings biography states he died aug 1, 1994 at the ripe old age of 93. It doesn’t give the cause of death but I THOUGHT he died from a fall,,,Must have read his obit wrong,,,maybe that’s how myths get started.
On the other hand, prostate cancer is a big killer of males over the age of 80. Timothy Leary succumbed to that, about 16 months later than his doctors thought he’d live. I talked with him at the Hog Farm commune in Northern California in Sept, 1994. At that time he had been given 6 weeks to live. He died in 1996. But the point of this is that he REALLY enjoyed poking fun at everyones preconceptions, kept a running web site account of his daily drug intake(most of which were illegal) and “enjoyed” his dying. He was quite an exceptional character, as was Linus. I don’t doubt his upbeat(read really high) mental state contributed to his extended longevity.
There are millions of theories out there about god, the universe, where we came from and where we’re going and how to live long, healthy lives, but only a limited number are falsifiable and it is those with which we are most concerned. The scientific method is the most powerful tool ever developed by this species to separate fantasy from fact. Fly with it,,,
GAry 7
May 26th, 2006 at 9:47 pm
DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW
My great-grandfather was a homeopathist *AND* M.D. and he found use for both in his practice as he rode his horse-drawn buckboard (or sled in winter) around to his patients (delivering animals as well as babies). I’ve never noticed any effect from the homeopathic remedies, but was faithfully dosed with them all through childhood. Interestingly, my uncle (as a lad) snuck into the drawer where the Ol’ Doc kept the sugar pills he would dose with the remedies, and said uncle grabbed a handful as he often did to eat for candy. Now this is not apocraphyl in ANY way. This is well-established fact: Said uncle got a severe spasm in one eye and eventually lost his vision in that eye. It seems the pills he took weren’t plain sugar, but had already been dosed with Belladonna or Merc.Sol (Salts of Mercury) and simply hadn’t been bottled yet. I knew that uncle all his life and that dead eye he had was always explained as his own bad judgement call on the visit to Ol’ Doc’s office.
I *try* to keep an open mind, but never so open that my brain threatens to fall out. Some people are too gullible for their own good, but that is not true amongst this crowd (for the most part). So maybe modern Homeopathists use next to nothing in their pills, but that certainly doesn’t seem to have been the case back in the 1880-1920s. Maybe it *used* to work to some extent.
As explained to me as a child, homeopathy was not a cure. Symptomatic illness was due to the body not being FOCUSED on the disease process. It was by the simple expedient of the deliberate introduction of small quantities of POISON (say alkaloids like belladonna) to cause the SAME symptoms that supposedly gave the body the clues it needed to fight the illness.
Now I hasten to point out that I have neither evidence nor belief in this system. Without the former, the latter is ridiculous, however, it is worthy of investigation from this diametrically opposed viewpoint of the methodology from a real “old-fashioned” practitioner.
May 27th, 2006 at 2:20 am
DJ said:
“Ibuprofin, for example, has ibuprofin in it.”
Yes, or, in fact, Ibuprofen. From 2-(4-(isobutyl) phenyl) propionic acid. I-bu-pro-fen. See?
May 27th, 2006 at 2:31 am
GAry7 said:
“Most of the health problems people take to Doctors are a waste of the doctors time and the patients money”
You seem to be advocating that people should not visit their doctor when they feel unwell. I will grant you that things like the common cold, mild forms of ‘flu’ and milder cases of food poisoning, along with most minor injuries, can be dealt with without involving the medical profession. But who is best placed to make that judgement? The medical professionals.
Your position seems to me to be irresponsible, because more severe/virulent infections should be referred to medical pactitioners as soon as possible. The sooner they are treated (or isolated), the fewer other people you infect before you recover.
May 27th, 2006 at 2:34 am
Gary again:
“Timothy Leary succumbed to that, about 16 months later than his doctors thought he’d live”
Proving what? That biological systems show a large intrinsic variation? We’ve known that for decades.
May 27th, 2006 at 2:42 am
SF writer said:
“… my uncle (as a lad) snuck into the drawer where the Ol’ Doc kept the sugar pills he would dose with the remedies, and said uncle grabbed a handful as he often did to eat for candy. … This is well-established fact: Said uncle got a severe spasm in one eye and eventually lost his vision in that eye. It seems the pills he took weren’t plain sugar, but had already been dosed with Belladonna or Merc.Sol (Salts of Mercury) and simply hadn’t been bottled yet.”
This only proves that the “ol’ doc” was hideously irresponsible. It does not demonstrate any causative link between the sugar pills and the blindness.
“… It was by the simple expedient of the deliberate introduction of small quantities of POISON (say alkaloids like belladonna) to cause the SAME symptoms that supposedly gave the body the clues it needed to fight the illness.”
The thing is, that homeopathic rememdies don’t contain ANY of the substance that they are prepared from. And homeopathic practitioners claim that the more ultra-diluted preparations are more potent, which makes no sense based on anything anyone knows about biology, chemistry or physics.
“… it is worthy of investigation …”
Yes. Unfortunately, the few rigorous investigations of homeopathy that have been conducted found no difference between the homeopathic remedies and the placebo. I have heard it claimed that the placebo effect is the mechanism by which homeopathy “works”, but if that is the case, what’s the point of going through all the rigmarole of multiple massive serial dilutions?
May 27th, 2006 at 11:37 am
Yoh, Nigel, you missed the point. Tims ATTITUDE contributed to his extended longevity, though whether it was because his brain ran on all 8 cylinders I expect we’ll never know,at least about him in particular.( see neurogenesis and stress )
Yes, people are a bunch of cry babies, running to the doctor with every sniffle, cough, etc. when all they really need is to stay home, drink some chicken soup(hey, can’t hurt) and get some rest. Instead we hope for a “magic” pill to fix all our problems. People seem to be AFRAID to be sick, when that is what is approriate to training an effective immune system. Some times we need the doctor, but most people have no idea what is worth the doctors time and what isn’t, because they don’t try to know. Well, it’s their waste of money, but it contributes to long lines at the doctors office and expensive, non-essential testing (mainly to cover the doctors butt).
SciFi writer: hadn’t heard that description of homeopathy before. Thanks for the input. Sounds like an interesting research project.
Gary 7
May 28th, 2006 at 7:08 pm
SFwriter said:
Samuel Hahnemann formulated his principles of homeopathy early on. They are the “Law of Similars” and the “Law of Infinitesimals”.
The “Law of Similars” is “like cures like”. The principle is as you suggest, that the small amount would trigger your body to react. But here’s the problem - your body is already reacting - or you wouldn’t be sick. So how does the body need a trigger to focus on the ailment you already have if it hasn’t already been focused on that ailment.
I have nausea, so I’ll take something that causes nausea to tell my body to fight nausea. Uh, but it already has a signal to fight nausea - I’m nauseated.
The “Law of Infinitesimals” is the even more bizarre part, the dilute to excess and therefore make more potent. This is contrary to basic chemistry, so the latest proposed explanation is that water has memory and somehow the special “succussions” of the water (special shaking) make the water remember what was in it even after diluting the active ingredient away. Uh huh. Right. Magic shaking.
As for it used to work, when Hahnemann developed homeopathy, the methods of conventional medicine were bleedings, leeches, and such. It was pre-Germ theory. Conventional medicine was hazardous, so doing nothing would have a better recovery rate. Throw in a little placebo to up the ante, and you have plenty of justification for homeopathy working while it really does nothing. Now that we have medicine developed on more sound principles that actually do something, homeopathy is a joke. But a dangerous joke when people turn to homeopathy instead of conventional medicine, such as chemo and radiation for cancer.
As for your uncle, maybe those sugar pills were dosed. Your phrasing suggests that the Old Doc turned the sugar pills into liquid medication. The dosing at the sugar pill level is the first step in the long process of diluting the mix to worthlessness. If so, then it is possible your uncle was dosed by something. Doesn’t make homeopathy worthwhile.
May 29th, 2006 at 3:41 am
NIGEL: I tend to disagree with your assessment of my great-grandfather as irresponsibile. He was a Doctor, and it was his office. Why should he suspect my Uncle (and my Dad for that matter) of knowing where his sugar pills were, or that they were stealing them without permission (boys will be boys)? And you said “The thing is, that homeopathic (sic)rememdies don’t contain ANY of the substance that they are prepared from”, but seem to have missed the point that I was suggesting that in the Olden Days maybe they were in fact made in stronger preparations.
IRISHMAN: I agree with you to some extent about the body “already reacting”, but playing devil’s advocate here, I was suggesting it was in an UNfocused sort of way. Simply having a high fever isn’t good. Sure, it’s a natural reaction to infection, but if by launching a few killer T-cells your body can kill off the infection more efficaciously, then the energy spent on creating the fever could be used better elsewhere, no? Certain things collect in the liver or pancreas or kidneys (et al) and could perhaps draw the body’s resources there if required.
Another point… The pills were used AS pills, and never diluted. You could smell the C2H5OH when the bottles were opened (Ethyl-Alcohol was always used as the carrier for some reason- I’ve never heard of water being used). I suppose it would disolve the sugar pills? Anyway…
My Uncle’s eye turned in (spasmed) within hours and went blind after he ate the pills (a matter of a day or so until the sight was gone), so the cause & effect seemed clear at the time. Things like that don’t happen spontaneously to my knowledge.