Im curious as to how creationists came up with that date. Maybe this belongs in a theology discussion but id like to point out that 2 PETER 3:8 States “With the lord a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a day”

since god took 6 days to create the earth and rested on the 7th, seems to me thats 7 thousand years before anything else happened…..

Well, maybe if there weren’t so many people telling them evolution and religion were incompatible, they wouldn’t care.

The funny thing is that both creationists and some atheists seem to make this point.

“I am one of those oddballs that believes in God, and loves science.”

I don’t see how you could possibly be an oddball. Science and atheism are two separate things.

“I think people should learn about God/religion in church, and science in school.”

I don’t see why people can’t learn about religion in school, in, like, history class, or even religious class if it’s a religious school. I learned all about science in my catholic school. Being ignorant about religion doesn’t make one, by default, smarter on science.

Since you first posted about ID last year, Phil, I followed links you included to Pharyngula, The Panda’s Thumb and thence to Talk Origins. I think I have now read nearly the whole TO archive.

And I am more convinced than ever before that:
(a) Evolution with common descent is the only explanation for the diversity of life on Earth that makes sense; and
(b) Those opposed to evolution have frequently demonstrated astonishingly poor scholarship and have deliberately misled their readership/audience.

Who was it that said “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour…”? ‘Cos the ID proponents didn’t listen.

Oh, and in case any of you don’t already know, here’s the link:
http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs.html

Patrick, I think I would have used “indicates”, which gives a firmer sense than “suggests” without going as far as “proves”. Although, I think it would also be a viable option to use “proves beyond any reasonable doubt”.

2. Darwin may live, but his tortoise, Harriet, just died. See http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/06/24/tortoise.die.ap/

No he didn’t. He wasn’t sure where the head was, even when he had an infinite precision hammer.

— Werner Karl Heisenberg

That above quote has always kept me sane in this ongoing debate. If I was on an island alone, and had a choice between one of the two following two volume sets: (Old & New Testaments’) or (Principia, Vol. I The Motion of Bodies & Principia Vol. II The System of the World by Isaac Newton) I would have to pick The Bible because I am way too dumb to understand Newton.
Of course I do not take the Bible at face value—it just has some interesting twists for my limited comprehension.

Heisenberg hit it on the Head! We are all dumb heads.

Perhaps reason will someday prevail amongst the general American public, but judging by the comments to that article, I don’t hold out much hope of that happening any time soon.

I still don’t understand why religious people are so concerned. I am one of those oddballs that believes in God, and loves science. I think people should learn about God/religion in church, and science in school.

I don’t have any problems/arguements with Evolution(I find it amazing how evolution works, and by how the scientists are able to use it to help people out!!), just like most scientists don’t have a problem with the fact that I believe in God…but then again, I am not some nut case trying to run science out and instill some stupid…yes, I said stupid…way of making religion a science and putting it in schools.

I don’t do a lot of reading on Evolution, but that’s just because I am more interested in Astronomy/Physics, so forgive me my ignorance on most of it

Creationism includes a belief that all forms of life have always existed in their present form and that the world was formed in 4004 BC rather than 4,600 million years ago as scientists believe.

It is more accurate to say “… 4,600 million years ago as scientific evidence suggests.” (And here I even used the softer “suggests” instead as “says” or “proves.”)

This original quote paints the “debate” as
creationists vs. scientists rhater than creationists vs. facts.

The advice, “Be an activist scientist.” is the best that can be given. Spread the word!

Yeah…that quote…

“You’ve heard them complain about activist judges. Be an activist scientist. Let them complain about that.”

is really cool.

Reading the comments there, I noticed the very old “notion” by the ID proponents that if they “prove” Darwin wrong, then somehow…by “default” that would prove ID to be correct.

Which is just silly, and demontrates a HUMONGOUS misunderstanding about just how science actually works.