Comments on: In space, no one can hear you pee http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/ I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:56:50 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Irishman http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/comment-page-1/#comment-16577 Irishman Fri, 30 Jun 2006 21:38:06 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/#comment-16577 Woof said: <blockquote>Nah, kidney stones are no big deal. I have a collection of them at home. They’re a pain in the back while hung up between kidney and bladder, but passing them is easy: You’re letting it flow, the stone falls into the pipe (OK, “falls” could be a problem in microgravity, but I imagine it’ll get there eventually), it rips at the walls of the pipe with its sandpaper-like surface as it passes through, you suck ALL THE ROOM AIR into your lungs, there’s a *tink* sound as it hits the porcelain (modify if you’re using a space-based baggy), then… all is OK. </blockquote> That works fine until you get that kidney stone that is a bit bigger than the pathway out. They you plug the plumbing, and not only get that stabbing back pain, but that it keeps building and won't go away, and you need surgery to remove. Or orthoscopic technique up your catheter. Woof said:

Nah, kidney stones are no big deal. I have a collection of them at home.

They’re a pain in the back while hung up between kidney and bladder, but passing them is easy: You’re letting it flow, the stone falls into the pipe (OK, “falls” could be a problem in microgravity, but I imagine it’ll get there eventually), it rips at the walls of the pipe with its sandpaper-like surface as it passes through, you suck ALL THE ROOM AIR into your lungs, there’s a *tink* sound as it hits the porcelain (modify if you’re using a space-based baggy), then… all is OK.

That works fine until you get that kidney stone that is a bit bigger than the pathway out. They you plug the plumbing, and not only get that stabbing back pain, but that it keeps building and won’t go away, and you need surgery to remove. Or orthoscopic technique up your catheter.

]]> By: Gary Ansorge http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/comment-page-1/#comment-16578 Gary Ansorge Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:50:13 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/#comment-16578 Joshua: I take it you are unfamiliar with magnetic bearings? Torque transfers thru friction! Counter rotating masses? Sounds good to me. I still think building in orbit power sats is the way to go, before trying for MArs. Besides, planets are sucky places, or is that just gravity??? Gary 7 Joshua: I take it you are unfamiliar with magnetic bearings? Torque transfers thru friction!

Counter rotating masses? Sounds good to me.

I still think building in orbit power sats is the way to go, before trying for MArs. Besides, planets are sucky places, or is that just gravity???

Gary 7

]]> By: Brian http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/comment-page-1/#comment-16580 Brian Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:24:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/#comment-16580 I wouldn't be so concerned about the effects of microgravity. Phil mentions that we 'evolved' in Earth's gravity. WRONG! We were intelligently designed to survive in Earth's gravity and there is no reason to doubt that the infallible designer had the foresight to know we would one day explore space! Unless perhaps my momma was wrong when she tried to teach me 12th grade level biology during my homeschooling years.... Nah. I wouldn’t be so concerned about the effects of microgravity. Phil mentions that we ‘evolved’ in Earth’s gravity. WRONG! We were intelligently designed to survive in Earth’s gravity and there is no reason to doubt that the infallible designer had the foresight to know we would one day explore space!

Unless perhaps my momma was wrong when she tried to teach me 12th grade level biology during my homeschooling years…. Nah.

]]> By: Tim G http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/comment-page-1/#comment-16579 Tim G Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:39:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/#comment-16579 This reminds me of a poster I saw about twenty years ago. It depicted a suited-up astronaut on the moon. Apparently, the suit had a fly because he was taking a wiz that produced an arc that spanned fifty feet. This reminds me of a poster I saw about twenty years ago.

It depicted a suited-up astronaut on the moon. Apparently, the suit had a fly because he was taking a wiz that produced an arc that spanned fifty feet.

]]> By: Don L. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/comment-page-1/#comment-16581 Don L. Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:34:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/#comment-16581 If William Shatner can sell a kidney stone for $25,000, then maybe NASA can sell astronaut kidney stones to help fund the space program. If William Shatner can sell a kidney stone for $25,000, then maybe NASA can sell astronaut kidney stones to help fund the space program.

]]> By: Joan Vernikos http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/comment-page-1/#comment-16576 Joan Vernikos Thu, 29 Jun 2006 16:51:02 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/#comment-16576 There has never been a kidney stone incident in space! That being said, the composition of the urine in space shows a profile that would predispose someone to kidney stones. For example, more acid urine, uric acid, and a greater amount of oxalates and other salts are considered risk factors. Any condition that results in dehydration and therefore concentrated urine is a strong risk factor and this includes distance runners as well as astronauts. In those that exercise because of sweating and not drinking enough to replace lost water, kidney stones are common. In the case of astronauts in space the risk factor increases but because they live in minimal gravity. This has been known a long time, and precautions have been taken to reduce the risk. In fact, one of the first research studies done on ISS by Peggy Whitson, Potassium Citrate was tested for its ability to make urine more alkaline and therefore reduce the kidney stone risk; and it does. Minimal gravity does not increase kidney stone risk because of inactivity but because the body's first response to getting away from gravity is to dump what it reads as excess water, by peeing. Why? Because on first going into space gravity is no longer pulling blood to the feet so it rushes upward to the head and chest. Sensors in the neck and chest register this as increased volume and trigger the peeing response. What results is a 10-15% reduction in blood volume which the sensors consider appropriate for a human who lives in microgravity. Gravity on Earth pulls in one direction only -- downward. When you stand it pulls your mass and the liquid in your body including blood to your feet. Standing, you experience what we call 1G. It is your heart and blood vessels that have to pump and work hard to get the blood back up to your head otherwise you will pass out, black out or faint. That is why we use bed rest -- lying in bed continuously -- as the closest, practical simulation model to being in microgravity. When you lie down gravity is no longer pulling on you from head to toe but its influence is minimized because it is only pulling across your chest. Lying in bed continuously is something like living in space...without the view! It produces most of the changes we see in returning astronauts and in space except they take longer to develop and are not as intense. The study with the twins in the Journal of Urology used bed rest for this purpose. Bed rest has been a very valuable simulation model since it has been possible to study in many more healthy volunteers than available astronauts and more thoroughly, what happens to the human body in space, why and how to prevent adverse changes with the best countermeasures. Only promising results from these studies can then be validated in the precious few opportunities available today for science in space. Drinking more water in space, unlike in athletes, does not necessarily help to restore the lost fluid. Astronauts are encouraged to drink to maintain good flow of water through the kidneys but unlike in athletes on Earth, it is not retained and exercise in space does not correct the problem. Increased gravity such as by standing on Earth or in space, by some other means, does. In the Urology paper the investigators tested during bed rest a countermeasure device that uses Lower Body Negative Pressure (LBNP)which by applying vacuum sucks blood down to the feet to a level equivalent to what would happen if the volunteers stood up and experienced 1G. As far as the heart and circulation are concerned this triggers the normal response to standing and is similar to being upright on the ground. They added exercise, because calcium loss may be reduced in bed by some types of exercise. The primary benefit of this countermeasure for reducing kidney stones does not come from the exercise but the body loading provided by the gravity-like effect of the LBNP. How come you all did not know about this and other effects of space flight? Because NASA would get the Award for their inability of communicating science to the public. There has never been a kidney stone incident in space! That being said, the composition of the urine in space shows a profile that would predispose someone to kidney stones. For example, more acid urine, uric acid, and a greater amount of oxalates and other salts are considered risk factors. Any condition that results in dehydration and therefore concentrated urine is a strong risk factor and this includes distance runners as well as astronauts. In those that exercise because of sweating and not drinking enough to replace lost water, kidney stones are common. In the case of astronauts in space the risk factor increases but because they live in minimal gravity. This has been known a long time, and precautions have been taken to reduce the risk. In fact, one of the first research studies done on ISS by Peggy Whitson, Potassium Citrate was tested for its ability to make urine more alkaline and therefore reduce the kidney stone risk; and it does.
Minimal gravity does not increase kidney stone risk because of inactivity but because the body’s first response to getting away from gravity is to dump what it reads as excess water, by peeing. Why? Because on first going into space gravity is no longer pulling blood to the feet so it rushes upward to the head and chest. Sensors in the neck and chest register this as increased volume and trigger the peeing response. What results is a 10-15% reduction in blood volume which the sensors consider appropriate for a human who lives in microgravity.
Gravity on Earth pulls in one direction only — downward. When you stand it pulls your mass and the liquid in your body including blood to your feet. Standing, you experience what we call 1G. It is your heart and blood vessels that have to pump and work hard to get the blood back up to your head otherwise you will pass out, black out or faint. That is why we use bed rest — lying in bed continuously — as the closest, practical simulation model to being in microgravity. When you lie down gravity is no longer pulling on you from head to toe but its influence is minimized because it is only pulling across your chest. Lying in bed continuously is something like living in space…without the view! It produces most of the changes we see in returning astronauts and in space except they take longer to develop and are not as intense.
The study with the twins in the Journal of Urology used bed rest for this purpose. Bed rest has been a very valuable simulation model since it has been possible to study in many more healthy volunteers than available astronauts and more thoroughly, what happens to the human body in space, why and how to prevent adverse changes with the best countermeasures. Only promising results from these studies can then be validated in the precious few opportunities available today for science in space.

Drinking more water in space, unlike in athletes, does not necessarily help to restore the lost fluid. Astronauts are encouraged to drink to maintain good flow of water through the kidneys but unlike in athletes on Earth, it is not retained and exercise in space does not correct the problem. Increased gravity such as by standing on Earth or in space, by some other means, does.
In the Urology paper the investigators tested during bed rest a countermeasure device that uses Lower Body Negative Pressure (LBNP)which by applying vacuum sucks blood down to the feet to a level equivalent to what would happen if the volunteers stood up and experienced 1G. As far as the heart and circulation are concerned this triggers the normal response to standing and is similar to being upright on the ground. They added exercise, because calcium loss may be reduced in bed by some types of exercise. The primary benefit of this countermeasure for reducing kidney stones does not come from the exercise but the body loading provided by the gravity-like effect of the LBNP.
How come you all did not know about this and other effects of space flight? Because NASA would get the Award for their inability of communicating science to the public.

]]> By: Nigel Depledge http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/comment-page-1/#comment-16583 Nigel Depledge Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:53:27 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/06/27/in-space-no-one-can-hear-you-pee/#comment-16583 D'oh, I meant to add that having two sections spinning in opposite directions neutralises any impact on your trajectory. D’oh, I meant to add that having two sections spinning in opposite directions neutralises any impact on your trajectory.

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