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	<title>Comments on: Wealth of Science</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: arensb</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17549</link>
		<dc:creator>arensb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Aug 2006 03:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17549</guid>
		<description>Paul Graham is an interesting character. Even when he's wrong (which he often is, IMHO), he's wrong in interesting ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul Graham is an interesting character. Even when he&#8217;s wrong (which he often is, IMHO), he&#8217;s wrong in interesting ways.</p>
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		<title>By: CelticBear&#8217;s Musings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Wealth and Science</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17523</link>
		<dc:creator>CelticBear&#8217;s Musings &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Wealth and Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17523</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;Bad Astronomer&#8221; Phil Plait has a blog entry today: &#8220;Wealth of Science.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] &#8220;Bad Astronomer&#8221; Phil Plait has a blog entry today: &#8220;Wealth of Science.&#8221; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Knop</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17524</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Knop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17524</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;â€œWe donâ€™t spend any less time in school than, say, lawyers, doctors, and financial analysts, and I donâ€™t think people value our work any less. So why the big pay disparity?â€&lt;/i&gt;

What scientists do is of less immediate use to society than what all of those other professionals do.

I'm an astronomer.  My use to society is in helping to express and pursue the human race's collective driving curiosity about the Universe around us.  I also support the ongoing enterprise of exploration, which as a side effect will hopefully help inspire kids to go into technical fields, some of which &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; be directly useful.

It's no surprise to me that people who've spent as much (or even less) time in school than I did make a lot more money than I do.  The truth is, compared to a lot of society, I'm pretty well paid.  I'm getting to do what I like, and I can live comfortably.  I can't really complain about it, even though a simple "cost/benefit" analysis comparing my pay to the number of years I spent in school might suggest I mis-spent my school years.  Simple money analyses like that don't motivate most scientists working in the area of basic research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>â€œWe donâ€™t spend any less time in school than, say, lawyers, doctors, and financial analysts, and I donâ€™t think people value our work any less. So why the big pay disparity?â€</i></p>
<p>What scientists do is of less immediate use to society than what all of those other professionals do.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m an astronomer.  My use to society is in helping to express and pursue the human race&#8217;s collective driving curiosity about the Universe around us.  I also support the ongoing enterprise of exploration, which as a side effect will hopefully help inspire kids to go into technical fields, some of which <i>will</i> be directly useful.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s no surprise to me that people who&#8217;ve spent as much (or even less) time in school than I did make a lot more money than I do.  The truth is, compared to a lot of society, I&#8217;m pretty well paid.  I&#8217;m getting to do what I like, and I can live comfortably.  I can&#8217;t really complain about it, even though a simple &#8220;cost/benefit&#8221; analysis comparing my pay to the number of years I spent in school might suggest I mis-spent my school years.  Simple money analyses like that don&#8217;t motivate most scientists working in the area of basic research.</p>
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		<title>By: Timmy K.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17525</link>
		<dc:creator>Timmy K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 15:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17525</guid>
		<description>"We donâ€™t spend any less time in school than, say, lawyers, doctors, and financial analysts, and I donâ€™t think people value our work any less. So why the big pay disparity?"

Lawyers keep those with the money out of jail.

Doctors keep those with the money alive.

Financial analysts help those with the money shift more money away from those with less money, and into their larger gold coin filled vaults (or secret Caymen Island holding company accounts).

Scientist just do everything else...  The only problem is that you rarely come face to face with the scientist and realize how valuable they are (not to imply that "financial analysts" are valuable to our actual society at all).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We donâ€™t spend any less time in school than, say, lawyers, doctors, and financial analysts, and I donâ€™t think people value our work any less. So why the big pay disparity?&#8221;</p>
<p>Lawyers keep those with the money out of jail.</p>
<p>Doctors keep those with the money alive.</p>
<p>Financial analysts help those with the money shift more money away from those with less money, and into their larger gold coin filled vaults (or secret Caymen Island holding company accounts).</p>
<p>Scientist just do everything else&#8230;  The only problem is that you rarely come face to face with the scientist and realize how valuable they are (not to imply that &#8220;financial analysts&#8221; are valuable to our actual society at all).</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Knop</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17526</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Knop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 08:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17526</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;So the statement â€œScientists, till recently at least, effectively donated the wealth they createdâ€ doesnâ€™t really hold up.&lt;/i&gt;

They got paid for the creation of the wealth.  But they did still donate it.

However, they didn't hold on to the wealth and attempt to keep milking it.  One could draw a comparison to copyrights.  A moderate copyright term allows an artist to be compensated for creating cultural wealth.  An extreme or perpetual copyright term allows the artist and his descendants to continue to monopolize and earn money from that wealth.

Science, effective, has a zero copyright term.  Yeah, some sicentists end up patenting what they're doing, but even patents don't last as long as copyrights do.  Copyrights last too long right now, and it seems that it's only getting worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So the statement â€œScientists, till recently at least, effectively donated the wealth they createdâ€ doesnâ€™t really hold up.</i></p>
<p>They got paid for the creation of the wealth.  But they did still donate it.</p>
<p>However, they didn&#8217;t hold on to the wealth and attempt to keep milking it.  One could draw a comparison to copyrights.  A moderate copyright term allows an artist to be compensated for creating cultural wealth.  An extreme or perpetual copyright term allows the artist and his descendants to continue to monopolize and earn money from that wealth.</p>
<p>Science, effective, has a zero copyright term.  Yeah, some sicentists end up patenting what they&#8217;re doing, but even patents don&#8217;t last as long as copyrights do.  Copyrights last too long right now, and it seems that it&#8217;s only getting worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Earwicker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17527</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Earwicker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17527</guid>
		<description>If wealth is not just money, then to understand how scientists are compensated you must look at more than just how much money they make.

They "earn" prestige, acclaim, respect, for making great discoveries. Also they get to spend their life searching for those discoveries (to be able to do the thing you really want to do all the time is about as wealthy as you can get).

So the statement "Scientists, till recently at least, effectively donated the wealth they created" doesn't really hold up.

They got a lot of wealth in return for the wealth they created - enough to persuade them to continue, anyway. It just wasn't all payment in the form of money.

There seems to be a general temptation to analyse the world exclusively in terms of a zero-sum conflict between the haves and the have-nots, in which the only kind of economic relationship is one-way exploitation. We have Marx and others to thank for this popular but misguided misconception.

PK said: "KB, itâ€™s because we collectively let â€œthemâ€ get away with paying us badly. We put up with this because we love what we do. I for one still think I have the best possible job..."

Saying "let them get away..." implies that a theft is being committed.

But isn't the truth that you are smart enough to be more interested in having a wealth of time to spend doing what you love, instead of a pile of money? I don't think anyone's screwing you over! You sound extremely successful measured against what is important to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If wealth is not just money, then to understand how scientists are compensated you must look at more than just how much money they make.</p>
<p>They &#8220;earn&#8221; prestige, acclaim, respect, for making great discoveries. Also they get to spend their life searching for those discoveries (to be able to do the thing you really want to do all the time is about as wealthy as you can get).</p>
<p>So the statement &#8220;Scientists, till recently at least, effectively donated the wealth they created&#8221; doesn&#8217;t really hold up.</p>
<p>They got a lot of wealth in return for the wealth they created - enough to persuade them to continue, anyway. It just wasn&#8217;t all payment in the form of money.</p>
<p>There seems to be a general temptation to analyse the world exclusively in terms of a zero-sum conflict between the haves and the have-nots, in which the only kind of economic relationship is one-way exploitation. We have Marx and others to thank for this popular but misguided misconception.</p>
<p>PK said: &#8220;KB, itâ€™s because we collectively let â€œthemâ€ get away with paying us badly. We put up with this because we love what we do. I for one still think I have the best possible job&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Saying &#8220;let them get away&#8230;&#8221; implies that a theft is being committed.</p>
<p>But isn&#8217;t the truth that you are smart enough to be more interested in having a wealth of time to spend doing what you love, instead of a pile of money? I don&#8217;t think anyone&#8217;s screwing you over! You sound extremely successful measured against what is important to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Siefert</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17528</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Siefert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 04:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/07/19/wealth-of-science-2/#comment-17528</guid>
		<description>Too bad that many people thinks that "Ignorance is Bliss".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too bad that many people thinks that &#8220;Ignorance is Bliss&#8221;.</p>
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