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	<title>Comments on: Monalien Lisa</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:59:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: nadine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18663</link>
		<dc:creator>nadine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18663</guid>
		<description>Has anyone seen Close Encounters? :)
I think math is a language that attempts to solve mystery, but art is a language that communicates that same mystery we all feel a part of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone seen Close Encounters? <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I think math is a language that attempts to solve mystery, but art is a language that communicates that same mystery we all feel a part of.</p>
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		<title>By: Caspar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18662</link>
		<dc:creator>Caspar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 20:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18662</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d start off with some Escher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d start off with some Escher.</p>
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		<title>By: ljk</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18661</link>
		<dc:creator>ljk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 20:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18661</guid>
		<description>As any good archaeologist will tell you, much more is learned about
a society via its trash than its monuments and official statements.

So while we may lament the electromagnetic junk being spewed into
the galaxy every second of every day since the early 20th Century,
the ETI equivalent of an anthropologist may be thrilled with the data.

Of course this may also explain why they haven&#039;t contacted us yet,
either. :^)

I also like the idea of art and music being broadcast across the
galaxy like some kind of interstellar musac.  It may not be the
most scientifically logical way to introduce oneself to an alien
culture, but at least it would hopefully seem a non-threatening
one - unless you transmit your work to a world full of art critics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As any good archaeologist will tell you, much more is learned about<br />
a society via its trash than its monuments and official statements.</p>
<p>So while we may lament the electromagnetic junk being spewed into<br />
the galaxy every second of every day since the early 20th Century,<br />
the ETI equivalent of an anthropologist may be thrilled with the data.</p>
<p>Of course this may also explain why they haven&#8217;t contacted us yet,<br />
either. :^)</p>
<p>I also like the idea of art and music being broadcast across the<br />
galaxy like some kind of interstellar musac.  It may not be the<br />
most scientifically logical way to introduce oneself to an alien<br />
culture, but at least it would hopefully seem a non-threatening<br />
one &#8211; unless you transmit your work to a world full of art critics.</p>
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		<title>By: spring</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18664</link>
		<dc:creator>spring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 10:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18664</guid>
		<description>I think it is good.(http://www.beijingxiezilou.com)if you are interesting,please look this website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is good.(<a href="http://www.beijingxiezilou.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.beijingxiezilou.com</a>)if you are interesting,please look this website.</p>
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		<title>By: Jest</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18665</link>
		<dc:creator>Jest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 02:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18665</guid>
		<description>we can&#039;t even communicate with one another on THIS planet using art... I can&#039;t imagine how someone from another world would interpret it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we can&#8217;t even communicate with one another on THIS planet using art&#8230; I can&#8217;t imagine how someone from another world would interpret it.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Goetz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18666</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Goetz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 01:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18666</guid>
		<description>&gt; Math is probably the only thing everyone in the universe has in common.

Carl Sagan asserted that, as well.  Is there any empirical evidence that shows this?

Let&#039;s take another life form that&#039;s closer to home: my cat.  She sure seems to enjoy singing along with me, much more than solving differential equations with me.  And cats have been known to paint.

Of course my experiment could be skewed by the fact that I sing much better than I solve differential equations.

Eric</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Math is probably the only thing everyone in the universe has in common.</p>
<p>Carl Sagan asserted that, as well.  Is there any empirical evidence that shows this?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s take another life form that&#8217;s closer to home: my cat.  She sure seems to enjoy singing along with me, much more than solving differential equations with me.  And cats have been known to paint.</p>
<p>Of course my experiment could be skewed by the fact that I sing much better than I solve differential equations.</p>
<p>Eric</p>
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		<title>By: Chip</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18667</link>
		<dc:creator>Chip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 00:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18667</guid>
		<description>I would not ride in an airplane where the stresses of centrifugal force were not a consideration of the design.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would not ride in an airplane where the stresses of centrifugal force were not a consideration of the design.</p>
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		<title>By: Elyk</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18668</link>
		<dc:creator>Elyk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Aug 2006 00:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18668</guid>
		<description>I think we would much rather recieve some math from aliens than their idea of art as well. We have to put ourselves in their shoes when we try to think of ways to communicate with them. Math is probably the only thing everyone in the universe has in common.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we would much rather recieve some math from aliens than their idea of art as well. We have to put ourselves in their shoes when we try to think of ways to communicate with them. Math is probably the only thing everyone in the universe has in common.</p>
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		<title>By: John W. Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18669</link>
		<dc:creator>John W. Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 23:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18669</guid>
		<description>Although there are different scales, it is noteworthy that the pentatonic scale, the diatonic scale, and the chromatic scale are all generated by a simple mathematical algorithm (they represent powers of 3 that are successively closer to the nearest power of 2 than any previous power of 3), and that the next scale generated has 53 notes, which is probably just too many (though experiments have been tried as far back as the Renaissance).

To illustrate the point, 3^5 is 243, close to 256 (0.9492), 3^7 is 2187, even closer to 2048 (1.0678), 3^12 is 531,441, closer still to 524,288 (1.0136), and 3^53 is 19,383,245,667,680,019,896,796,723 which is very close to 19.342,813,113,834,066,795,298,816 (1.0021).

I realize that this all sounds very much like pseudo-mystical mumbo-jumbo (and pseudo-mystics have made much of it, for thousands of years), but the fact remains that, in terms of human music, these relationships pragmatically keep turning up, across many cultures, including cultures to which the underlying mathematical theory is foreign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although there are different scales, it is noteworthy that the pentatonic scale, the diatonic scale, and the chromatic scale are all generated by a simple mathematical algorithm (they represent powers of 3 that are successively closer to the nearest power of 2 than any previous power of 3), and that the next scale generated has 53 notes, which is probably just too many (though experiments have been tried as far back as the Renaissance).</p>
<p>To illustrate the point, 3^5 is 243, close to 256 (0.9492), 3^7 is 2187, even closer to 2048 (1.0678), 3^12 is 531,441, closer still to 524,288 (1.0136), and 3^53 is 19,383,245,667,680,019,896,796,723 which is very close to 19.342,813,113,834,066,795,298,816 (1.0021).</p>
<p>I realize that this all sounds very much like pseudo-mystical mumbo-jumbo (and pseudo-mystics have made much of it, for thousands of years), but the fact remains that, in terms of human music, these relationships pragmatically keep turning up, across many cultures, including cultures to which the underlying mathematical theory is foreign.</p>
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		<title>By: The Science Pundit</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18670</link>
		<dc:creator>The Science Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 22:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18670</guid>
		<description>BA,

When I first saw that article, I had the same reaction you did.  One man&#039;s art is another man&#039;s trash.  There may be some works of art that people seem to find universally pleasing, but I chalk that up to an appreciation of beauty and asthetics.  You find beauty and asthetics in nature.  As a matter of fact, some people have real problems distinguishing beauty in art from beauty in nature.

That&#039;s when it hit me!  I realized where the Discovery Institute had screwed up.  They should have gone with the &quot;artistic designer&quot; (AD)--a designer who speaks the universal language.  While IDiots and classical creationists have trouble explaining things like disease, parasites and junk DNA, the artistic designer is just expressing himself.

ps --  Phil, it seems we have a similar taste in music.  But as I sit here listening to Serenade for Strings, I can&#039;t help but notice that both my CD and mp3 collections are heavily skewed against the Swedish quartet.

pps -- I just read an article in the NYT today that attributes the shape of the Moon to &quot;centrifugal force.&quot;
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/08/science/space/08moon.html?_r=1&amp;ref=science&amp;oref=slogin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BA,</p>
<p>When I first saw that article, I had the same reaction you did.  One man&#8217;s art is another man&#8217;s trash.  There may be some works of art that people seem to find universally pleasing, but I chalk that up to an appreciation of beauty and asthetics.  You find beauty and asthetics in nature.  As a matter of fact, some people have real problems distinguishing beauty in art from beauty in nature.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s when it hit me!  I realized where the Discovery Institute had screwed up.  They should have gone with the &#8220;artistic designer&#8221; (AD)&#8211;a designer who speaks the universal language.  While IDiots and classical creationists have trouble explaining things like disease, parasites and junk DNA, the artistic designer is just expressing himself.</p>
<p>ps &#8212;  Phil, it seems we have a similar taste in music.  But as I sit here listening to Serenade for Strings, I can&#8217;t help but notice that both my CD and mp3 collections are heavily skewed against the Swedish quartet.</p>
<p>pps &#8212; I just read an article in the NYT today that attributes the shape of the Moon to &#8220;centrifugal force.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/08/science/space/08moon.html?_r=1&#038;ref=science&#038;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/08/science/space/08moon.html?_r=1&#038;ref=science&#038;oref=slogin</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Bad Astronomer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18671</link>
		<dc:creator>The Bad Astronomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18671</guid>
		<description>Of course the centrifugal force is real. See&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2005/11/30/thats-no-moon-wait-yes-it-is/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the footnote on this blog entry&lt;/a&gt;, for one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course the centrifugal force is real. See<a href="http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2005/11/30/thats-no-moon-wait-yes-it-is/" rel="nofollow">the footnote on this blog entry</a>, for one.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce M.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18672</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18672</guid>
		<description>Music is probably the closest we have to a universal art form, in that virtually all cultures have some form of it.  But we can&#039;t even agree on which scale to use, and how many notes are in the scale (among others).
You may recall that the Voyager spacecraft were outfitted with record albums including spoken greetings in several languages, the music of various cultures, and even whale sounds to tell any would-be discoverer something about us.   I only hope they realize that we prefer the subtlety and technical excellence of Bach to the caterwauling of, say, Yoko Ono.

BTW another great story about alien art is History Lesson, by Arthur C. Clarke.  Creatures from Venus develop space flight around the time that lift on Earth ceases to exist due to a massive Ice Age.   Only a few artifacts are left in a stone enclosure on a high mountain.  They eventually figure out that one of these artifacts is a film, a graphic representation of what life on Earth must have been like.
I won&#039;t spoil the surprise ending for you because - well, it would spoil it...

Love the blog, keep up the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Music is probably the closest we have to a universal art form, in that virtually all cultures have some form of it.  But we can&#8217;t even agree on which scale to use, and how many notes are in the scale (among others).<br />
You may recall that the Voyager spacecraft were outfitted with record albums including spoken greetings in several languages, the music of various cultures, and even whale sounds to tell any would-be discoverer something about us.   I only hope they realize that we prefer the subtlety and technical excellence of Bach to the caterwauling of, say, Yoko Ono.</p>
<p>BTW another great story about alien art is History Lesson, by Arthur C. Clarke.  Creatures from Venus develop space flight around the time that lift on Earth ceases to exist due to a massive Ice Age.   Only a few artifacts are left in a stone enclosure on a high mountain.  They eventually figure out that one of these artifacts is a film, a graphic representation of what life on Earth must have been like.<br />
I won&#8217;t spoil the surprise ending for you because &#8211; well, it would spoil it&#8230;</p>
<p>Love the blog, keep up the good work.</p>
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		<title>By: Pro Libertate</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18673</link>
		<dc:creator>Pro Libertate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18673</guid>
		<description>Minor threadjack: Phil, I e-mailed you earlier about &lt;i&gt;Reason&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; Hit &amp; Run blog discussing the &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2006/08/physicists_go_m.shtml#comments&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Koran-as-science-reference-guide theory&lt;/a&gt; now making the rounds (shudder).  Well, they went further and posted an &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2006/08/buzz_aldrin_twi.shtml#comments&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;item (tongue in cheek, I&#039;m sure) about the &quot;fake&quot; moon landings&lt;/a&gt;.  You&#039;ll be happy to know that it took about six comments for someone (not me) to link to one Bad Astronomer&#039;s rebuttal of such nonsense.  Be sure to use your fame and powers only for good :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Minor threadjack: Phil, I e-mailed you earlier about <i>Reason&#8217;s</i> Hit &amp; Run blog discussing the <a HREF="http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2006/08/physicists_go_m.shtml#comments" rel="nofollow">Koran-as-science-reference-guide theory</a> now making the rounds (shudder).  Well, they went further and posted an <a HREF="http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2006/08/buzz_aldrin_twi.shtml#comments" rel="nofollow">item (tongue in cheek, I&#8217;m sure) about the &#8220;fake&#8221; moon landings</a>.  You&#8217;ll be happy to know that it took about six comments for someone (not me) to link to one Bad Astronomer&#8217;s rebuttal of such nonsense.  Be sure to use your fame and powers only for good <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Sean M.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18674</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 18:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18674</guid>
		<description>Phil, have you read H. Beam Piper&#039;s short story &quot;Omnilingual&quot;?  It discusses the first archaeological expedition to a Mars of canals, a few remaining plants and animals, and the sand-buried ruins which reached early-twentieth-century Western levels of technology before collapsing.  One of the themes is the problem of deciphering the plentiful Martian writings.  There is and will be no source giving a text in both a known and a Martian language, so will humans ever be able to read the writings of the lost Martian intelligent species?  They work out some things like numbers and the dating system from things like magazines and lists, but further progress seems unlikely although the heroine persists in the attempt.

The solution comes when some of the characters are exploring a ruined university and find an odd chart painted on the wall.  It looks familiar to one of the explorers, so he gets the heroine to translate the numbers, and they realize that they are looking at the periodic table for the natural elements.  Now, of course, they have a hook into the Martian languages- science and math, which express universal truths or close approximations thereof.  They may one day translate a Martian Shakespeare, but will have to start with math and science textbooks from the university library.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, have you read H. Beam Piper&#8217;s short story &#8220;Omnilingual&#8221;?  It discusses the first archaeological expedition to a Mars of canals, a few remaining plants and animals, and the sand-buried ruins which reached early-twentieth-century Western levels of technology before collapsing.  One of the themes is the problem of deciphering the plentiful Martian writings.  There is and will be no source giving a text in both a known and a Martian language, so will humans ever be able to read the writings of the lost Martian intelligent species?  They work out some things like numbers and the dating system from things like magazines and lists, but further progress seems unlikely although the heroine persists in the attempt.</p>
<p>The solution comes when some of the characters are exploring a ruined university and find an odd chart painted on the wall.  It looks familiar to one of the explorers, so he gets the heroine to translate the numbers, and they realize that they are looking at the periodic table for the natural elements.  Now, of course, they have a hook into the Martian languages- science and math, which express universal truths or close approximations thereof.  They may one day translate a Martian Shakespeare, but will have to start with math and science textbooks from the university library.</p>
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		<title>By: bearcub</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18676</link>
		<dc:creator>bearcub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 17:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18676</guid>
		<description>Oops! forgot to add, it&#039;s the second exhibit down. It runs from July 31 - January 14.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops! forgot to add, it&#8217;s the second exhibit down. It runs from July 31 &#8211; January 14.</p>
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		<title>By: bearcub</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18675</link>
		<dc:creator>bearcub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 17:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18675</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.magnes.org/exhibits/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is what I assume is an example of the &quot;Alien Art&quot;. I&#039;ll echo what others have said, I don&#039;t get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.magnes.org/exhibits/" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is what I assume is an example of the &#8220;Alien Art&#8221;. I&#8217;ll echo what others have said, I don&#8217;t get it.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18677</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 17:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18677</guid>
		<description>ABBA comes in binary now, right? :)  Was &quot;What About Livingston&quot; the last cool song praising discoverers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ABBA comes in binary now, right? <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Was &#8220;What About Livingston&#8221; the last cool song praising discoverers?</p>
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		<title>By: Evolving Squid</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18678</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolving Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 17:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18678</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I plan to communicate with aliens via the (truely) universal language of love.

Where can I apply for a grant? &lt;/i&gt;

James T. Kirk Foundation
c/o William T. Riker
Paramount Studios
Los Angeles, California</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I plan to communicate with aliens via the (truely) universal language of love.</p>
<p>Where can I apply for a grant? </i></p>
<p>James T. Kirk Foundation<br />
c/o William T. Riker<br />
Paramount Studios<br />
Los Angeles, California</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: wintermute</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18679</link>
		<dc:creator>wintermute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 17:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18679</guid>
		<description>I plan to communicate with aliens via the (truely) universal language of love.

Where can I apply for a grant?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I plan to communicate with aliens via the (truely) universal language of love.</p>
<p>Where can I apply for a grant?</p>
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		<title>By: Chip</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18681</link>
		<dc:creator>Chip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18681</guid>
		<description>&quot;You mean centripetal force. Thereâ€™s no such thing as centrifugal force.&quot;

Schoenberg, (one of the 20th century&#039;s greatest composers,) said there is actually no such thing as &quot;atonal&quot; music. (The term &quot;atonal&quot; is often applied to his compositions - even the &quot;tonal&quot; ones.) He is technically correct though musicians still use the term to describe music that doesn&#039;t seem to have an immediately consistent functional key center.

Likewise, &quot;centrifugal force&quot; is a misleading term but still widely used by engineers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You mean centripetal force. Thereâ€™s no such thing as centrifugal force.&#8221;</p>
<p>Schoenberg, (one of the 20th century&#8217;s greatest composers,) said there is actually no such thing as &#8220;atonal&#8221; music. (The term &#8220;atonal&#8221; is often applied to his compositions &#8211; even the &#8220;tonal&#8221; ones.) He is technically correct though musicians still use the term to describe music that doesn&#8217;t seem to have an immediately consistent functional key center.</p>
<p>Likewise, &#8220;centrifugal force&#8221; is a misleading term but still widely used by engineers.</p>
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		<title>By: The Bad Astronomer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18680</link>
		<dc:creator>The Bad Astronomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 16:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18680</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, yes, inversely proportional. But it&#039;s still a linear relationship, which is what I meant. Feel free to substitute frequency then. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, yes, inversely proportional. But it&#8217;s still a linear relationship, which is what I meant. Feel free to substitute frequency then. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Blake Stacey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18682</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 15:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18682</guid>
		<description>As an example of the kind of art which is &lt;i&gt;incredibly meaningful&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;bust-a-gut funny&lt;/i&gt; to me but maybe nobody else in the world, check out &lt;a href=&quot;http://xkcd.com/c123.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Centrifugal Force&lt;/a&gt; from the webcomic Xkcd (which I just found via Pharyngula).

&quot;How do you like my centrifuge, Mr. Bond?  When I throw this lever, you will feel centrifugal force crush every bone in your body.&quot;

&quot;You mean centripetal force.  There&#039;s no such thing as centrifugal force.&quot;

&quot;A laughable claim, Mr. Bond, perpetuated by overzealous teachers of science. . . .&quot;

OK, so it&#039;s completely irrelevant to the subject at hand, but I figured it would make a nice link the next time Prof. BA brings up the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an example of the kind of art which is <i>incredibly meaningful</i> and <i>bust-a-gut funny</i> to me but maybe nobody else in the world, check out <a href="http://xkcd.com/c123.html" rel="nofollow">Centrifugal Force</a> from the webcomic Xkcd (which I just found via Pharyngula).</p>
<p>&#8220;How do you like my centrifuge, Mr. Bond?  When I throw this lever, you will feel centrifugal force crush every bone in your body.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;You mean centripetal force.  There&#8217;s no such thing as centrifugal force.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;A laughable claim, Mr. Bond, perpetuated by overzealous teachers of science. . . .&#8221;</p>
<p>OK, so it&#8217;s completely irrelevant to the subject at hand, but I figured it would make a nice link the next time Prof. BA brings up the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Minchau</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18689</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Minchau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18689</guid>
		<description>&quot;...the peak wavelength emitted by a star depending linearly on temperature&quot;

This is a misleading wording, Phil.  Usually when we talk about a linear dependency, it means a direct proportion.  However, the peak wavelength emitted is inversely proportional to the temperature, not directly proportional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;the peak wavelength emitted by a star depending linearly on temperature&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a misleading wording, Phil.  Usually when we talk about a linear dependency, it means a direct proportion.  However, the peak wavelength emitted is inversely proportional to the temperature, not directly proportional.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaptain K</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18688</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaptain K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18688</guid>
		<description>Dance is the vertical expression of horizontal desire! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dance is the vertical expression of horizontal desire! <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/comment-page-1/#comment-18687</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Aug 2006 12:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/08/07/monalien-lisa/#comment-18687</guid>
		<description>Why should we assume that aliens even have art?

As a mathematician Im surprised at the whole &quot;fractal art&quot; discussion.  The &quot;art&quot; in the Mandelbrot set comes from people who add color to enhance the image - possibly to aid comprehension, but also for esthetics.

Human beings are very visual.  We often make sketches and draw pictures of abstract things to help us comprehend a situation.  For example, we advise students to &quot;draw a picture&quot; when solving calculus and physics problems.  Are these drawings art?

Suppose aliens have other senses upon which they depend?  Perhaps they would manufacture tastes to aid in comprehension. Perhaps they sense nearby changes in the magnetic field as their primary sense, thus create magnetic art. Perhaps they would have some yet unknown sense that we cannot imagine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why should we assume that aliens even have art?</p>
<p>As a mathematician Im surprised at the whole &#8220;fractal art&#8221; discussion.  The &#8220;art&#8221; in the Mandelbrot set comes from people who add color to enhance the image &#8211; possibly to aid comprehension, but also for esthetics.</p>
<p>Human beings are very visual.  We often make sketches and draw pictures of abstract things to help us comprehend a situation.  For example, we advise students to &#8220;draw a picture&#8221; when solving calculus and physics problems.  Are these drawings art?</p>
<p>Suppose aliens have other senses upon which they depend?  Perhaps they would manufacture tastes to aid in comprehension. Perhaps they sense nearby changes in the magnetic field as their primary sense, thus create magnetic art. Perhaps they would have some yet unknown sense that we cannot imagine.</p>
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