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	<title>Comments on: Speaking of impacts&#8230;and tsunamis&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Gary Ansorge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/comment-page-1/#comment-23968</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Ansorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2006 01:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/#comment-23968</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re getting conflicting dates on the Dino demise, anywhere from a 1000 years to a million. Would be nice to see just ONE analytical lab involved in the dating process, for many different samples of strata worldwide.

I expect the asteroid impact just happened at an inoportune time, perhaps coincident with a solar maximum cycle, declining magnetic field strength, hydrogen sulphide release, etc. Will be interesting to see the next ten years research results.

Gary 7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re getting conflicting dates on the Dino demise, anywhere from a 1000 years to a million. Would be nice to see just ONE analytical lab involved in the dating process, for many different samples of strata worldwide.</p>
<p>I expect the asteroid impact just happened at an inoportune time, perhaps coincident with a solar maximum cycle, declining magnetic field strength, hydrogen sulphide release, etc. Will be interesting to see the next ten years research results.</p>
<p>Gary 7</p>
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		<title>By: Lunatik</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/comment-page-1/#comment-23967</link>
		<dc:creator>Lunatik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/#comment-23967</guid>
		<description>&quot;Thereâ€™s two important data to keep in mind about the Keller article. The first is that the end of the Age of Dinosaurs was what you might call a â€œnoisyâ€ time. There was at least one, probably more, bolide impacts. There were the Deccan eruptions which were neither small nor short in nature. The Atlantic Ocean was also opening up, and with this change of sea level there were a host of related environmental changes. You could make the argument that maybe one thing or another was the crucial factor that led to the demise of the dinosaurs, but youâ€™d be just pooh-poohing a lot of other information.&quot;
                                   Daniel Synder

    Ever watch a prizefight?

    Rarely does one shot ever take out the other side.
(it happens, but not that often.)

   Instead, it often is a combo of hits or a weaking of the one of the sides, due to punishment inflicted, that decides the victor.

   I&#039;ts a left, right, left, then uppercut that floors the big dude.


   Talk about a &quot;few&quot; bad years...lol


   Lunatik</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Thereâ€™s two important data to keep in mind about the Keller article. The first is that the end of the Age of Dinosaurs was what you might call a â€œnoisyâ€ time. There was at least one, probably more, bolide impacts. There were the Deccan eruptions which were neither small nor short in nature. The Atlantic Ocean was also opening up, and with this change of sea level there were a host of related environmental changes. You could make the argument that maybe one thing or another was the crucial factor that led to the demise of the dinosaurs, but youâ€™d be just pooh-poohing a lot of other information.&#8221;<br />
                                   Daniel Synder</p>
<p>    Ever watch a prizefight?</p>
<p>    Rarely does one shot ever take out the other side.<br />
(it happens, but not that often.)</p>
<p>   Instead, it often is a combo of hits or a weaking of the one of the sides, due to punishment inflicted, that decides the victor.</p>
<p>   I&#8217;ts a left, right, left, then uppercut that floors the big dude.</p>
<p>   Talk about a &#8220;few&#8221; bad years&#8230;lol</p>
<p>   Lunatik</p>
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		<title>By: PaleoProf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/comment-page-1/#comment-23966</link>
		<dc:creator>PaleoProf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/#comment-23966</guid>
		<description>Oops forgot the journal for that last citation it&#039;s

The Journal of the Geological Society.

That&#039;s what I get for being in a hurry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops forgot the journal for that last citation it&#8217;s</p>
<p>The Journal of the Geological Society.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I get for being in a hurry</p>
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		<title>By: PaleoProf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/comment-page-1/#comment-23965</link>
		<dc:creator>PaleoProf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/#comment-23965</guid>
		<description>I donâ€™t know much about the Keller study and yes sheâ€™s part of a group that seems to be unusually fond of press releases but this is still a very complicated event that many feel was never adequately explained by an impact alone.  I could go on for a very long time here but let me just mention a couple things.  Frogs, crocodilians and birds made it through the event relatively unscathed.  Today these are some of the most sensitive groups we have with respect to changing/degrading environments. Bob Bakker has been harping on this for years.  Many plant groups (in particular ferns) didn&#039;t take much of a hit either.  Neither of these seem to be consistent with the large scale global turmoil that impact-only people talk about.  (in fact last time I checked there was very little agreement on exactly what the effects of the impact would have been)
There have always been a fair number of workers with questions about the impact alone idea.  In particular, the work of Norm MacLeod is very good. Check out

Mac Leod, N. 1996.  K/T Redux. Paeobiology. 22(3) pp.311-371.

and

Mac Leod et al.  1997. The Cretaceous Tertiary Biotic Transition. Volume 154, Number 2, 1997, pp. 265-292(28)

I know these are older but the arguments are still valid and I donâ€™t have time to look up anything newer right now gotta go to seminar.

Paul</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I donâ€™t know much about the Keller study and yes sheâ€™s part of a group that seems to be unusually fond of press releases but this is still a very complicated event that many feel was never adequately explained by an impact alone.  I could go on for a very long time here but let me just mention a couple things.  Frogs, crocodilians and birds made it through the event relatively unscathed.  Today these are some of the most sensitive groups we have with respect to changing/degrading environments. Bob Bakker has been harping on this for years.  Many plant groups (in particular ferns) didn&#8217;t take much of a hit either.  Neither of these seem to be consistent with the large scale global turmoil that impact-only people talk about.  (in fact last time I checked there was very little agreement on exactly what the effects of the impact would have been)<br />
There have always been a fair number of workers with questions about the impact alone idea.  In particular, the work of Norm MacLeod is very good. Check out</p>
<p>Mac Leod, N. 1996.  K/T Redux. Paeobiology. 22(3) pp.311-371.</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>Mac Leod et al.  1997. The Cretaceous Tertiary Biotic Transition. Volume 154, Number 2, 1997, pp. 265-292(28)</p>
<p>I know these are older but the arguments are still valid and I donâ€™t have time to look up anything newer right now gotta go to seminar.</p>
<p>Paul</p>
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		<title>By: Lorne Ipsum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/comment-page-1/#comment-23964</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorne Ipsum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/#comment-23964</guid>
		<description>Phil,

WRT the Chicxulub story, I&#039;m with Luke -- the &quot;mounting&quot; evidence is really just a pile of press releases put out by Gerta Keller and her co-workers.  Check the peer-reviewed science, and you&#039;ll see they&#039;re not getting any confirmatory studies from anybody else.  The problem is that Keller &amp; co. keep working from samples in the disturbed geology near the Chicxulub crater (where post-impact landslides and tsunamis and such make the stratigraphy pretty tangled).  Nobody&#039;s been able to find data that corroborates their take on things anywhere else.

Lorne</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil,</p>
<p>WRT the Chicxulub story, I&#8217;m with Luke &#8212; the &#8220;mounting&#8221; evidence is really just a pile of press releases put out by Gerta Keller and her co-workers.  Check the peer-reviewed science, and you&#8217;ll see they&#8217;re not getting any confirmatory studies from anybody else.  The problem is that Keller &amp; co. keep working from samples in the disturbed geology near the Chicxulub crater (where post-impact landslides and tsunamis and such make the stratigraphy pretty tangled).  Nobody&#8217;s been able to find data that corroborates their take on things anywhere else.</p>
<p>Lorne</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Ansorge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/comment-page-1/#comment-23963</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Ansorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/#comment-23963</guid>
		<description>What, again I missed the announcement, &quot;Surfs up!!!&quot;

Phil, isn&#039;t it obvious, there was a rapid evolutionary development after the Chicxulub impact, driving a tribe of raptors to sentience, who developed a high civilization, then went hunting for trophies. I&#039;ll bet we discover a raptor house burried under radioactive debris from that period, with tyraunosaurus heads mounted on the walls.
&quot;Well, dang, they were just standing there, waiting to get shot,,,&quot;

,,,or maybe, some time travelers needed to go back and bring home some really big game,,,this is what happens when we over hunt species,,,

GAry 7

&quot;,,,removes toungue from ear,,,&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What, again I missed the announcement, &#8220;Surfs up!!!&#8221;</p>
<p>Phil, isn&#8217;t it obvious, there was a rapid evolutionary development after the Chicxulub impact, driving a tribe of raptors to sentience, who developed a high civilization, then went hunting for trophies. I&#8217;ll bet we discover a raptor house burried under radioactive debris from that period, with tyraunosaurus heads mounted on the walls.<br />
&#8220;Well, dang, they were just standing there, waiting to get shot,,,&#8221;</p>
<p>,,,or maybe, some time travelers needed to go back and bring home some really big game,,,this is what happens when we over hunt species,,,</p>
<p>GAry 7</p>
<p>&#8220;,,,removes toungue from ear,,,&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Snyder</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/comment-page-1/#comment-23962</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Snyder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/11/15/speaking-of-impactsand-tsunamis/#comment-23962</guid>
		<description>Yo!

I&#039;m not a bad astronomer, but I&#039;m a Stunningly Mediocre Paleontologist.

There&#039;s two important data to keep in mind about the Keller article. The first is that the end of the Age of Dinosaurs was what you might call a &quot;noisy&quot; time. There was at least one, probably more, bolide impacts. There were the Deccan eruptions which were neither small nor short in nature. The Atlantic Ocean was also opening up, and with this change of sea level there were a host of related environmental changes. You could make the argument that maybe one thing or another was the &lt;i&gt;crucial&lt;/i&gt; factor that led to the demise of the dinosaurs, but you&#039;d be just pooh-poohing a lot of other information.

The second is Keller&#039;s data. Notice this is NOT in the peer-reviewed literature! This is a newspaper article, and hence not held to the same standards. As far as I can tell, he could be talking about new data, or he could be talking about his old work on the subject. If it&#039;s the former, I&#039;d sure like to see it in Nature or Science or somewhere. If it&#039;s the latter, I recall that there were questions about the research. While &lt;i&gt;I did not read the article myself&lt;/i&gt;, I heard secondhand his data were taken from a single locality and he was not very forthcoming about sharing them. Keller has been dismissive of the bolide impact hypothesis for a long time, and naturally people were very curious to see what he&#039;d got. I would treat this news report with caution and look for the published data.

On a related note, my friend and former instructor Dr. Richard Muller is giving a talk on the bolide hypothesis this week. Richard wasn&#039;t directly involved in the Alvarez&#039;s work, but he&#039;s done some related work and he&#039;s mentioned in &lt;i&gt;T. Rex and the Crater of Doom&lt;/i&gt;, Walter Alvarez&#039;s popular press book on the subject. If you get University of California Television or you have a big enough dish, you can check him out:

http://www.uctv.tv/schedule3.asp?summary=show&amp;keyword=11829</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yo!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not a bad astronomer, but I&#8217;m a Stunningly Mediocre Paleontologist.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s two important data to keep in mind about the Keller article. The first is that the end of the Age of Dinosaurs was what you might call a &#8220;noisy&#8221; time. There was at least one, probably more, bolide impacts. There were the Deccan eruptions which were neither small nor short in nature. The Atlantic Ocean was also opening up, and with this change of sea level there were a host of related environmental changes. You could make the argument that maybe one thing or another was the <i>crucial</i> factor that led to the demise of the dinosaurs, but you&#8217;d be just pooh-poohing a lot of other information.</p>
<p>The second is Keller&#8217;s data. Notice this is NOT in the peer-reviewed literature! This is a newspaper article, and hence not held to the same standards. As far as I can tell, he could be talking about new data, or he could be talking about his old work on the subject. If it&#8217;s the former, I&#8217;d sure like to see it in Nature or Science or somewhere. If it&#8217;s the latter, I recall that there were questions about the research. While <i>I did not read the article myself</i>, I heard secondhand his data were taken from a single locality and he was not very forthcoming about sharing them. Keller has been dismissive of the bolide impact hypothesis for a long time, and naturally people were very curious to see what he&#8217;d got. I would treat this news report with caution and look for the published data.</p>
<p>On a related note, my friend and former instructor Dr. Richard Muller is giving a talk on the bolide hypothesis this week. Richard wasn&#8217;t directly involved in the Alvarez&#8217;s work, but he&#8217;s done some related work and he&#8217;s mentioned in <i>T. Rex and the Crater of Doom</i>, Walter Alvarez&#8217;s popular press book on the subject. If you get University of California Television or you have a big enough dish, you can check him out:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.uctv.tv/schedule3.asp?summary=show&amp;keyword=11829" rel="nofollow">http://www.uctv.tv/schedule3.asp?summary=show&amp;keyword=11829</a></p>
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