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	<title>Comments on: NASA&#8217;s lunar plans</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Maris Livcans</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-24856</link>
		<dc:creator>Maris Livcans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/#comment-24856</guid>
		<description>What do you think abaut ruins on the Moon?????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you think abaut ruins on the Moon?????</p>
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		<title>By: Will. M.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-24855</link>
		<dc:creator>Will. M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Dec 2006 17:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/#comment-24855</guid>
		<description>I must have misread the announcement: I thought this was a theoretical response to the latest Bushco fantasy invasion scheme.  I didn&#039;t realize NASA was seriously considering resurrecting 40+year old mothballed technology as the main components of the mission.  So there&#039;ll be a base littered with the bottoms of the landing modules...There will be a hard rock mining and smelting operation on the moon - a union shop, no doubt.  I&#039;m confident that the public and congress will wholeheartedly support this endeavor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must have misread the announcement: I thought this was a theoretical response to the latest Bushco fantasy invasion scheme.  I didn&#8217;t realize NASA was seriously considering resurrecting 40+year old mothballed technology as the main components of the mission.  So there&#8217;ll be a base littered with the bottoms of the landing modules&#8230;There will be a hard rock mining and smelting operation on the moon &#8211; a union shop, no doubt.  I&#8217;m confident that the public and congress will wholeheartedly support this endeavor.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Fagin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-24854</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Fagin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 18:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/#comment-24854</guid>
		<description>Well Irishman, I&#039;ve heard all these arguments before, but I don&#039;t think they provide sufficient reason to put a barrier like the moon in the path of a Mars mission.

1.  As you said, we need the moon to practice &quot;the process of establishing a habitat elsewhere in a location that is somewhat easy to get back and forth in reasonable time.&quot;  Why do we need the moon for that?  Why couldn&#039;t we just construct our mock habitat in Antarctica (As the Mars society has done.)  You get all the difficulties of isolated living, without the hassle of going to the moon.  In addition, Antarctica would provide a more realistic simulation of the problems Mars explorers would face, while the moon will force them to deal with challenges they would never see on Mars.

2.  Radiation is not a threat on a voyage to Mars.  I strongly recommend Robert Zubrin&#039;s &quot;A Case for Mars&quot; for a very lengthy discussion of this topic.  He concludes that with basic shielding, a Mars crew will be exposed to an elevated, but not significant and certainly not dangerous dose of radiation.

3.  We also don&#039;t have to worry about the effects of long-term exposure to micro-gravity.  In fact, Martian explorers need not experience micro-gravity at all for any significant time.  Again, as Zubrin describes in his book, it is possible to simply pay out a few hundred meters of cable, and set your spacecraft in a slow spin, and generate artificial gravity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Irishman, I&#8217;ve heard all these arguments before, but I don&#8217;t think they provide sufficient reason to put a barrier like the moon in the path of a Mars mission.</p>
<p>1.  As you said, we need the moon to practice &#8220;the process of establishing a habitat elsewhere in a location that is somewhat easy to get back and forth in reasonable time.&#8221;  Why do we need the moon for that?  Why couldn&#8217;t we just construct our mock habitat in Antarctica (As the Mars society has done.)  You get all the difficulties of isolated living, without the hassle of going to the moon.  In addition, Antarctica would provide a more realistic simulation of the problems Mars explorers would face, while the moon will force them to deal with challenges they would never see on Mars.</p>
<p>2.  Radiation is not a threat on a voyage to Mars.  I strongly recommend Robert Zubrin&#8217;s &#8220;A Case for Mars&#8221; for a very lengthy discussion of this topic.  He concludes that with basic shielding, a Mars crew will be exposed to an elevated, but not significant and certainly not dangerous dose of radiation.</p>
<p>3.  We also don&#8217;t have to worry about the effects of long-term exposure to micro-gravity.  In fact, Martian explorers need not experience micro-gravity at all for any significant time.  Again, as Zubrin describes in his book, it is possible to simply pay out a few hundred meters of cable, and set your spacecraft in a slow spin, and generate artificial gravity.</p>
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		<title>By: Irishman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-24853</link>
		<dc:creator>Irishman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/#comment-24853</guid>
		<description>Will M., did you pay any attention to the announcement or linked site?

1.  Yes, there is a major revamp of the Apollo design. They are retaining the Apollo conceptual design, but the design is being modified for a crew of 4, and will be extensively updated.

2. Coming and going will be accomplished by Apollo style vehicles rather than Shuttle style vehicles.  That doesn&#039;t preclude some ability to reuse the command modules, but the lander return vehicles will likely be jettisoned and burn up on reentry.

3. They are not requiring water to be present in the craters to succeed.  They are hoping to find volatiles such as water because that could be beneficial, but it is not required.  Hydrogen and oxygen can be obtained directly from the lunar regolith (rock).

4. They are already discussing with other countries how to form an international partnership. The exact structure has not be solidified.  And yes, they did announce they have started a dialog with &lt;b&gt;CHINA&lt;/b&gt;.

As for &quot;Mars First&quot; advocates, there are a couple of reasons to go to the Moon first that do not rely on the lunar conditions being at all similar to Martian conditions.  Primarily there is learning about the process of establishing a habitat elsewhere in a location that is somewhat easy to get back and forth in reasonable time.  A Martian trip will take approx 6 months one way, without a substantial change in propulsion technology. That puts anyone going on an incredibly thin logistics supply line.  It makes sense to try it first where access is a couple of days.  Second, there are radiation exposure issues that need to be resolved for lengthy trips.  Third, there is the ever-present concern over weakening due to extended periods in weightlessness.  ISS is already working on that problem, and being under some gravity load is better than none, but it is critical we understand and can combat the effects if we want to protect the health of our astronauts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will M., did you pay any attention to the announcement or linked site?</p>
<p>1.  Yes, there is a major revamp of the Apollo design. They are retaining the Apollo conceptual design, but the design is being modified for a crew of 4, and will be extensively updated.</p>
<p>2. Coming and going will be accomplished by Apollo style vehicles rather than Shuttle style vehicles.  That doesn&#8217;t preclude some ability to reuse the command modules, but the lander return vehicles will likely be jettisoned and burn up on reentry.</p>
<p>3. They are not requiring water to be present in the craters to succeed.  They are hoping to find volatiles such as water because that could be beneficial, but it is not required.  Hydrogen and oxygen can be obtained directly from the lunar regolith (rock).</p>
<p>4. They are already discussing with other countries how to form an international partnership. The exact structure has not be solidified.  And yes, they did announce they have started a dialog with <b>CHINA</b>.</p>
<p>As for &#8220;Mars First&#8221; advocates, there are a couple of reasons to go to the Moon first that do not rely on the lunar conditions being at all similar to Martian conditions.  Primarily there is learning about the process of establishing a habitat elsewhere in a location that is somewhat easy to get back and forth in reasonable time.  A Martian trip will take approx 6 months one way, without a substantial change in propulsion technology. That puts anyone going on an incredibly thin logistics supply line.  It makes sense to try it first where access is a couple of days.  Second, there are radiation exposure issues that need to be resolved for lengthy trips.  Third, there is the ever-present concern over weakening due to extended periods in weightlessness.  ISS is already working on that problem, and being under some gravity load is better than none, but it is critical we understand and can combat the effects if we want to protect the health of our astronauts.</p>
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		<title>By: Irishman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-24852</link>
		<dc:creator>Irishman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/#comment-24852</guid>
		<description>Phil, the briefing charts are linked off that page:
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/163896main_LAT_GES_1204.pdf

I don&#039;t know what open architecture you mean.  Perhaps slide 13?  It looks to me there&#039;s a crew cabin (the ascent vehicle) that is a small canister and then a platform for a larger payload that could be an enclosed canister.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, the briefing charts are linked off that page:<br />
<a href="http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/163896main_LAT_GES_1204.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/163896main_LAT_GES_1204.pdf</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what open architecture you mean.  Perhaps slide 13?  It looks to me there&#8217;s a crew cabin (the ascent vehicle) that is a small canister and then a platform for a larger payload that could be an enclosed canister.</p>
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		<title>By: The Bad Astronomer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-24851</link>
		<dc:creator>The Bad Astronomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 03:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/#comment-24851</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I found some illustrations of the lander, but what I meant was I couldn&#039;t find the schematic they used in the press conference. That&#039;s a weird thing to do; show an image then not make it available. The one I saw looked like it was the open architecture I described, but the other illsutrations make it look more like the old Apollo lander. Which is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I found some illustrations of the lander, but what I meant was I couldn&#8217;t find the schematic they used in the press conference. That&#8217;s a weird thing to do; show an image then not make it available. The one I saw looked like it was the open architecture I described, but the other illsutrations make it look more like the old Apollo lander. Which is it?</p>
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		<title>By: Whet Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/comment-page-1/#comment-24850</link>
		<dc:creator>Whet Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 03:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2006/12/05/nasas-lunar-plans/#comment-24850</guid>
		<description>Speaking of Bad Astronomy....The Washington Post article talks about telescopes on &quot;the dark side of the Moon&quot; (last paragraph, first page).  Perhaps we need to focus on education in selling this to the public.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of Bad Astronomy&#8230;.The Washington Post article talks about telescopes on &#8220;the dark side of the Moon&#8221; (last paragraph, first page).  Perhaps we need to focus on education in selling this to the public.</p>
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