Comments on: Carolyn Porco’s NYT Op/Ed http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/ I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog. Mon, 09 Nov 2009 03:11:39 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Irishman http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/comment-page-1/#comment-30675 Irishman Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:40:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/#comment-30675 Will M., the NASA budget is currently approx. 0.8% of the U.S. budget. It is insignificant compared to the costs required for the other issues you list: health care, Social Security, infrastructure, military expenditures, etc. Even at 1% for all of the space program activities, including manned, robotic, and aeronautical research, that is still negligible compared to what those other situations already get. Will M., the NASA budget is currently approx. 0.8% of the U.S. budget. It is insignificant compared to the costs required for the other issues you list: health care, Social Security, infrastructure, military expenditures, etc. Even at 1% for all of the space program activities, including manned, robotic, and aeronautical research, that is still negligible compared to what those other situations already get.

]]> By: Ron M. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/comment-page-1/#comment-30657 Ron M. Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:40:12 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/#comment-30657 I read the Porco piece. I was not aware of the Saturn V history. We have spent over 100 billion on the "star wars" boondoggle, and I think that another 15 billion is in the next budget. That's almost all of NASA's yearly money. What will happen to the US economy when the Chinese yuan upsurps the dollar at the World Bank? I read the Porco piece. I was not aware of the Saturn V history. We have spent over
100 billion on the “star wars” boondoggle, and I think that another 15 billion is in the next budget. That’s almost all of NASA’s yearly money. What will happen to the US
economy when the Chinese yuan upsurps the dollar at the World Bank?

]]> By: Will. M. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/comment-page-1/#comment-30674 Will. M. Tue, 20 Feb 2007 22:49:58 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/#comment-30674 Gee, Folks: I think a dose of financial reality is needed: we are a nation which is a trillion or so dollars in debt because of the Iraq war; we have an economy which is inflated by the speculation of the wealthy few who possess or control much of the nation's money and who have been granted permanent tax breaks by the last Congress (and which surely portends a stock market devaluation in the near future); we have a disappearing middle class which itself is heavily in hock, all of which means the government has to cut programs and spending or else raise taxes at which the public will surely balk. AND we have a disappearing scientific cadre - we are graduating fewer and fewer engineers, scientists, technical people in all areas. Unless we begin to hire and train our space program personnell now, we'll have to rely on scientists and engineers from other nations to staff the space effort - that is, if it somehow miraculously gets funds. We have a crisis in affordable health care; we have an upcoming crisis in the Social Security program; we have a crisis in repairing/replacing/renewing the nation's infrastructure. Just where does a "pie-in-the-sky" program like sending manned missions to the moon or Mars, let alone other places, fit in? [An aside: "nimrod" means HUNTER; it has no meaning relating to dimwit, nutball, oxbrain, doofus, numbnuts, etc.] Gee, Folks:
I think a dose of financial reality is needed: we are a nation which is a trillion or so dollars in debt because of the Iraq war; we have an economy which is inflated by the speculation of the wealthy few who possess or control much of the nation’s money and who have been granted permanent tax breaks by the last Congress (and which surely portends a stock market devaluation in the near future); we have a disappearing middle class which itself is heavily in hock, all of which means the government has to cut programs and spending or else raise taxes at which the public will surely balk. AND we have a disappearing scientific cadre – we are graduating fewer and fewer engineers, scientists, technical people in all areas. Unless we begin to hire and train our space program personnell now, we’ll have to rely on scientists and engineers from other nations to staff the space effort – that is, if it somehow miraculously gets funds. We have a crisis in affordable health care; we have an upcoming crisis in the Social Security program; we have a crisis in repairing/replacing/renewing the nation’s infrastructure. Just where does a “pie-in-the-sky” program like sending manned missions to the moon or Mars, let alone other places, fit in?
[An aside: "nimrod" means HUNTER; it has no meaning relating to dimwit, nutball, oxbrain, doofus, numbnuts, etc.]

]]> By: Jack Hagerty http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/comment-page-1/#comment-30673 Jack Hagerty Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:44:57 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/#comment-30673 Ahruman Says: "Shepard’s status as first American in space has been contested as relatively recently unclassified documents have shown that the Air Force broke the 100 km barrier well before that. Unfortunately, I don’t have a handy cite." You're thinking of the X-15 program, and while there were a few astronauts wings presented from those flights (the barrier was 50 miles back then, which is 80 Km), they were, IIRC, done after Shepard's flight. ================ Al Says: "IIRC there were some very high altitude balloon flights that went more than 100km up." Right number, wrong units. The postwar "Farside" project sent pilots up to 100,000 feet (not meters) and slightly higher, but that's about the limit for surface launched balloons. One of the gondolas is on display at the Air Force museum outside Dayton, OH. If you thought Mercury capsules were small, this thing is a cylinder about 5 feet (1,5 meters) in diameter and maybe 10 feet (3 meters) long. The interior was crammed with equipment so the poor pilot had to sit in this smaller-than-a-phone-booth space for 20 hours or more. Earlier than that, ascents in the 1930, mostly sponsored by the National Geographic Society, went up to 50,000 feet (15 Km) and higher. Jacques Piccard made the first pressurized gondola ascent to 51,000 feet (15.5 Km) in 1931. I know, TMI :-) - Jack Ahruman Says: “Shepard’s status as first American in space has been contested as relatively recently unclassified documents have shown that the Air Force broke the 100 km barrier well before that. Unfortunately, I don’t have a handy cite.”

You’re thinking of the X-15 program, and while there were a few astronauts wings presented from those flights (the barrier was 50 miles back then, which is 80 Km), they were, IIRC, done after Shepard’s flight.

================

Al Says: “IIRC there were some very high altitude balloon flights that went more than 100km up.”

Right number, wrong units. The postwar “Farside” project sent pilots up to 100,000 feet (not meters) and slightly higher, but that’s about the limit for surface launched balloons. One of the gondolas is on display at the Air Force museum outside Dayton, OH. If you thought Mercury capsules were small, this thing is a cylinder about 5 feet (1,5 meters) in diameter and maybe 10 feet (3 meters) long. The interior was crammed with equipment so the poor pilot had to sit in this smaller-than-a-phone-booth space for 20 hours or more.

Earlier than that, ascents in the 1930, mostly sponsored by the National Geographic Society, went up to 50,000 feet (15 Km) and higher. Jacques Piccard made the first pressurized gondola ascent to 51,000 feet (15.5 Km) in 1931.

I know, TMI :-)

- Jack

]]> By: Nic Percival http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/comment-page-1/#comment-30672 Nic Percival Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:15:43 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/#comment-30672 I'm afraid I don't believe that the rockets used to launch future astronauts will be used (though they could be..) for unmanned probes. I believe a Saturn V was once considered for an enormous Mars probe (three or four stage with a Centaur on top), and of course it never happened. The problem is - can you really expect to use a $1B+ rocket for a 'mere' probe? There's no reason why not, but I doubt it'd get the funding - so everything will continue to get launched on Delta II's or perhaps the odd Atlas 5. A shame really - as I recall Galileo and Cassini cost on the order of $2B, so why not use a really big capable rocket? I’m afraid I don’t believe that the rockets used to launch future astronauts will be used (though they could be..) for unmanned probes. I believe a Saturn V was once considered for an enormous Mars probe (three or four stage with a Centaur on top), and of course it never happened. The problem is – can you really expect to use a $1B+ rocket for a ‘mere’ probe? There’s no reason why not, but I doubt it’d get the funding – so everything will continue to get launched on Delta II’s or perhaps the odd Atlas 5.

A shame really – as I recall Galileo and Cassini cost on the order of $2B, so why not use a really big capable rocket?

]]> By: Kelfazin http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/comment-page-1/#comment-30671 Kelfazin Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:41:33 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/#comment-30671 Great article Carolyn, and thanks for the link Phil! Great article Carolyn, and thanks for the link Phil!

]]> By: Melusine http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/comment-page-1/#comment-30670 Melusine Tue, 20 Feb 2007 18:28:37 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/02/19/carolyn-porcos-nyt-oped/#comment-30670 Oh, cool. This is not even my blog and I feel like gushing. So, <a href="http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2006/11/20/national-geographic-bends-to-the-will-of-the-bablog/#comment-79423" rel="nofollow">I'll just repeat some of my old gushing</a> to Carolyn Porco and say thanks, again. Oh, cool. This is not even my blog and I feel like gushing. So, I’ll just repeat some of my old gushing to Carolyn Porco and say thanks, again.

]]>