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	<title>Comments on: Congress</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 02:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: 8777 &#171; The Scotto Grotto</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32872</link>
		<dc:creator>8777 &#171; The Scotto Grotto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32872</guid>
		<description>[...] March 18, 2007 by scottobear    BHK and I saw and *really enjoyed* Behind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon&#8230; much better than I&#8217;d thought it would be, and held well to mockumentary and the original subject matter&#8217;s convention. I suspect it&#8217;s not going to be a huge draw though&#8230; lucky we caught it on it&#8217;s first and possibly last weekend.   Chris and Larry adopted Tigger last night after a marathon shopping at Ikea. My first time there&#8230; I enjoyed the odd named stuff and the semi-corporate weirdness. However, we shopped too long, and I got plumb tuckered out. Young Ms. Tigger seems quite happy in her new abode.   via and the bad astronomy blog- [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] March 18, 2007 by scottobear    BHK and I saw and *really enjoyed* Behind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon&#8230; much better than I&#8217;d thought it would be, and held well to mockumentary and the original subject matter&#8217;s convention. I suspect it&#8217;s not going to be a huge draw though&#8230; lucky we caught it on it&#8217;s first and possibly last weekend.   Chris and Larry adopted Tigger last night after a marathon shopping at Ikea. My first time there&#8230; I enjoyed the odd named stuff and the semi-corporate weirdness. However, we shopped too long, and I got plumb tuckered out. Young Ms. Tigger seems quite happy in her new abode.   via and the bad astronomy blog- [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: All Space News &#187; Congress</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32871</link>
		<dc:creator>All Space News &#187; Congress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32871</guid>
		<description>[...] it. Hmmm. Here â€™s an interesting little tidbit: not one Democrat voted against this bill. Not one.read more &#124; digg story   April 11th, 2007 &#124; Category: Space [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] it. Hmmm. Here â€™s an interesting little tidbit: not one Democrat voted against this bill. Not one.read more | digg story   April 11th, 2007 | Category: Space [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Irishman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32788</link>
		<dc:creator>Irishman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32788</guid>
		<description>Chill Out said:
&#62;... and from a legal point of view the US code already protects officials who attempt to report â€œany violation.â€

Apparently those protections haven't been adequately enforced, in the opinion of many Congressmen, as previously cited.

&#62; If I were a congressman Iâ€™d vote against whistle blowing â€œregardless of contextâ€ which is how the bill phrases it, more or less,

Did you read the context of &lt;i&gt;that statement&lt;/i&gt;?  The intent is to address concerns that people who first tried to raise the issue through normal work channels (i.e. inform supervisor, suggest process improvement, etc) or deal with it as part of their normal job were not being granted whistleblower protection for later raising the issue higher up the chain.  The "prior context" was justification for the board and courts to rule they were not "whistleblowers".   The Democrats and many Republicans disagreed, and said the whole intent of the law was to protect anyone raising the issues, even if they tried to do it through channels first.

&#62; ... but I also know that the guys at NASA would be alot better off if congress appropriated some additional funds to them rather than giving them the option to speak in front of congressional sub-committees about possible violations, let the lawyers do that, let the scientists do science.

I certainly agree Congress assigning additional funds (like maybe signing &lt;i&gt;last year's&lt;/i&gt; budget and giving them the money they expected for this year) would be great.  And certainly taking scientists away from doing science so they can talk to Congress about problems is a waste.  Except for the fact that the big waste is the problems in the first place, and the means to correct the problems is for the people who are having them to directly testify.  It's like court - you don't interview the lawyers on the stand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chill Out said:<br />
&gt;&#8230; and from a legal point of view the US code already protects officials who attempt to report â€œany violation.â€</p>
<p>Apparently those protections haven&#8217;t been adequately enforced, in the opinion of many Congressmen, as previously cited.</p>
<p>&gt; If I were a congressman Iâ€™d vote against whistle blowing â€œregardless of contextâ€ which is how the bill phrases it, more or less,</p>
<p>Did you read the context of <i>that statement</i>?  The intent is to address concerns that people who first tried to raise the issue through normal work channels (i.e. inform supervisor, suggest process improvement, etc) or deal with it as part of their normal job were not being granted whistleblower protection for later raising the issue higher up the chain.  The &#8220;prior context&#8221; was justification for the board and courts to rule they were not &#8220;whistleblowers&#8221;.   The Democrats and many Republicans disagreed, and said the whole intent of the law was to protect anyone raising the issues, even if they tried to do it through channels first.</p>
<p>&gt; &#8230; but I also know that the guys at NASA would be alot better off if congress appropriated some additional funds to them rather than giving them the option to speak in front of congressional sub-committees about possible violations, let the lawyers do that, let the scientists do science.</p>
<p>I certainly agree Congress assigning additional funds (like maybe signing <i>last year&#8217;s</i> budget and giving them the money they expected for this year) would be great.  And certainly taking scientists away from doing science so they can talk to Congress about problems is a waste.  Except for the fact that the big waste is the problems in the first place, and the means to correct the problems is for the people who are having them to directly testify.  It&#8217;s like court - you don&#8217;t interview the lawyers on the stand.</p>
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		<title>By: Chill Out</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32870</link>
		<dc:creator>Chill Out</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Mar 2007 02:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32870</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure what you mean by membership choices but there is a leftist idea (further left than most/all democrats as far as i know, but the former policy of the British Labor Party) of the closed shop, that is, ensuring that all industries are represented by labor unions, for better or for worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure what you mean by membership choices but there is a leftist idea (further left than most/all democrats as far as i know, but the former policy of the British Labor Party) of the closed shop, that is, ensuring that all industries are represented by labor unions, for better or for worse.</p>
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		<title>By: skeptigirl</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32869</link>
		<dc:creator>skeptigirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 23:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32869</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Jack Says:
March 19th, 2007 at 7:29 am

Iâ€™ll admit I am a little surprised about this. Iâ€™m sort of a right-leaning Libertarian, but sometimes I think â€œwhy would I defend the Republicans?â€ I donâ€™t know anything about this bill other than what youâ€™ve written, so I donâ€™t know of any non-evil reason for a Congressman to vote against it (although a reason or two may have been pointed out by someone above).

But as I thought about this bill, I was reminded of another one that recently passed the House: the Employee Free Choice Act.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll112.xml

Now, since every Democrat was for the bill and every Republican was against it (also, the White House stated the President would veto it if it makes it to his desk), so Iâ€™m not going to assume that this is a black and white, â€œif you vote for it youâ€™re evil, if you vote against it youâ€™re goodâ€ issue.

But one part of the bill seems particularly disturbing to me:

â€œIn its current form, the statute allows an employer to demand a secret ballot election administered by the National Labor Relations Board when a union requests recognition based on signed authorization cards or petitions. The proposed Employee Free Choice Act would force the National Labor Relations Board to certify a union as the exclusive bargaining representative of employees based on signed authorizations obtained by union organizers.â€

How can a bill that prevents union members from using a secret ballot (and thus protecting them from being bullied into voting a certain way) be good? Or rather, how could _every_ Democrat support this? This bill seems more anti-union to me, so maybe the yeas and nays should have been reversed.&lt;/i&gt;

The way I read this and implied by the title "streamlining the process" (not that titles are particularly honest) is that the Labor Board can make the determination the employees want the union representation without the employer's challenge. It doesn't say secret ballot is not an option. Also the old wording says 30% of employees and the newer version says "majority".

Given the Republican track record of opposing any unions, I'm going to trust the Democrats here argued the vote clause was only being used as intimidation and or stalling tactic and not because employees were joining unions out of peer pressure.

Do you know if any such votes ever resulted in uncovering coerced union membership choices?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Jack Says:<br />
March 19th, 2007 at 7:29 am</p>
<p>Iâ€™ll admit I am a little surprised about this. Iâ€™m sort of a right-leaning Libertarian, but sometimes I think â€œwhy would I defend the Republicans?â€ I donâ€™t know anything about this bill other than what youâ€™ve written, so I donâ€™t know of any non-evil reason for a Congressman to vote against it (although a reason or two may have been pointed out by someone above).</p>
<p>But as I thought about this bill, I was reminded of another one that recently passed the House: the Employee Free Choice Act.</p>
<p><a href="http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll112.xml" rel="nofollow">http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll112.xml</a></p>
<p>Now, since every Democrat was for the bill and every Republican was against it (also, the White House stated the President would veto it if it makes it to his desk), so Iâ€™m not going to assume that this is a black and white, â€œif you vote for it youâ€™re evil, if you vote against it youâ€™re goodâ€ issue.</p>
<p>But one part of the bill seems particularly disturbing to me:</p>
<p>â€œIn its current form, the statute allows an employer to demand a secret ballot election administered by the National Labor Relations Board when a union requests recognition based on signed authorization cards or petitions. The proposed Employee Free Choice Act would force the National Labor Relations Board to certify a union as the exclusive bargaining representative of employees based on signed authorizations obtained by union organizers.â€</p>
<p>How can a bill that prevents union members from using a secret ballot (and thus protecting them from being bullied into voting a certain way) be good? Or rather, how could _every_ Democrat support this? This bill seems more anti-union to me, so maybe the yeas and nays should have been reversed.</i></p>
<p>The way I read this and implied by the title &#8220;streamlining the process&#8221; (not that titles are particularly honest) is that the Labor Board can make the determination the employees want the union representation without the employer&#8217;s challenge. It doesn&#8217;t say secret ballot is not an option. Also the old wording says 30% of employees and the newer version says &#8220;majority&#8221;.</p>
<p>Given the Republican track record of opposing any unions, I&#8217;m going to trust the Democrats here argued the vote clause was only being used as intimidation and or stalling tactic and not because employees were joining unions out of peer pressure.</p>
<p>Do you know if any such votes ever resulted in uncovering coerced union membership choices?</p>
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		<title>By: Chill Out</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32868</link>
		<dc:creator>Chill Out</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32868</guid>
		<description>The point i was making was, to paraphrase just about every post behind mine, that saying "a vote against this bill is a vote against science" a false, and saying that "an amendment to remove the protection of scientists is a vote against scientists" is false. I dont give a damn what the republicans were actually thinking at the time, the point i was making is that there are other reasons to oppose this bill, in sum, its unnecessary and it covers 25 bases when it should just do a good job at covering one. If I were a congressman I'd vote against whistle blowing "regardless of context" which is how the bill phrases it, more or less, but I'd vote for protection of scientists against political pressure. The pressure scientists received from the Bush administration over climate change at NASA and from the higher ups in the park ranger service should not be the same issue as the report of malfeasance by an official of the US government. Without going through proper channels, without paying attention to the context that this bill encourages one to ignore than we end up with reports from low level officials straight to congress. Should congress be an option for an official who is ignored in his report? Sure, but like i said, its a separate issue from science and from a legal point of view the US code already protects officials who attempt to report "any violation." Screw the political parties, and the pork slinging, and the attacks on science and all the mumbo jumbo, lets just analyze what this bill does and agree on what reality is. Its a valiant effort, no scientist should have to undergo the political pressure that some have faced, but I also know that the guys at NASA would be alot better off if congress appropriated some additional funds to them rather than giving them the option to speak in front of congressional sub-committees about possible violations, let the lawyers do that, let the scientists do science. Thats the point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point i was making was, to paraphrase just about every post behind mine, that saying &#8220;a vote against this bill is a vote against science&#8221; a false, and saying that &#8220;an amendment to remove the protection of scientists is a vote against scientists&#8221; is false. I dont give a damn what the republicans were actually thinking at the time, the point i was making is that there are other reasons to oppose this bill, in sum, its unnecessary and it covers 25 bases when it should just do a good job at covering one. If I were a congressman I&#8217;d vote against whistle blowing &#8220;regardless of context&#8221; which is how the bill phrases it, more or less, but I&#8217;d vote for protection of scientists against political pressure. The pressure scientists received from the Bush administration over climate change at NASA and from the higher ups in the park ranger service should not be the same issue as the report of malfeasance by an official of the US government. Without going through proper channels, without paying attention to the context that this bill encourages one to ignore than we end up with reports from low level officials straight to congress. Should congress be an option for an official who is ignored in his report? Sure, but like i said, its a separate issue from science and from a legal point of view the US code already protects officials who attempt to report &#8220;any violation.&#8221; Screw the political parties, and the pork slinging, and the attacks on science and all the mumbo jumbo, lets just analyze what this bill does and agree on what reality is. Its a valiant effort, no scientist should have to undergo the political pressure that some have faced, but I also know that the guys at NASA would be alot better off if congress appropriated some additional funds to them rather than giving them the option to speak in front of congressional sub-committees about possible violations, let the lawyers do that, let the scientists do science. Thats the point.</p>
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		<title>By: Irishman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32867</link>
		<dc:creator>Irishman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/congress/#comment-32867</guid>
		<description>Jack, interesting comment on the union issue.  I have not investigated it so cannot comment on the content very intelligently.  However, it is not a science related issue. Though I suppose your point was just to show how block voting relates to many issues, not just science ones?  Okay, but that still does not address the merits of the bill that Phil posted on.

SharkByte, your hyperbole misrepresents the actual arguments being made.  There are several forces at work within the Republican Party to stifle science.  One is the religious conservative element resisting the philosophical implications coming from the results of science, and opposed to the liberal moral opinions from those who base their views on science.  Another force is the Big Business corporate interests of maximizing profits without regard to other concerns.  A third is the NeoCon agenda to promote an agressive, black/white foreign policy stance.  These three forces have found a home in the Republican Party leadership, and have made their presence known through issues on abortion and stem cell research, issues on oil and timber industries and questions regarding climate change, and through the "War on Terror" and Iraq, etc.

No one asserts that the Republicans are actively trying to usher in a new Dark Age (hey, let's set back science and crush our technological advancement!).  Rather, the various political agendas all have reasons to be concerned about particular science information becoming public, because it does not support the positions they advocate. So there is a pattern of suppressing the presentation of science results, and the stifling of research into areas that are politically uncomfortable.

And political parties do have back room, front room, side corridor, phone call, etc conversations where they explicitly discuss Party positions on bills.  They also play pressure games (within the party and with outsiders they can influence).  To suggest that doesn't happen is completely uninformed on the ways of politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack, interesting comment on the union issue.  I have not investigated it so cannot comment on the content very intelligently.  However, it is not a science related issue. Though I suppose your point was just to show how block voting relates to many issues, not just science ones?  Okay, but that still does not address the merits of the bill that Phil posted on.</p>
<p>SharkByte, your hyperbole misrepresents the actual arguments being made.  There are several forces at work within the Republican Party to stifle science.  One is the religious conservative element resisting the philosophical implications coming from the results of science, and opposed to the liberal moral opinions from those who base their views on science.  Another force is the Big Business corporate interests of maximizing profits without regard to other concerns.  A third is the NeoCon agenda to promote an agressive, black/white foreign policy stance.  These three forces have found a home in the Republican Party leadership, and have made their presence known through issues on abortion and stem cell research, issues on oil and timber industries and questions regarding climate change, and through the &#8220;War on Terror&#8221; and Iraq, etc.</p>
<p>No one asserts that the Republicans are actively trying to usher in a new Dark Age (hey, let&#8217;s set back science and crush our technological advancement!).  Rather, the various political agendas all have reasons to be concerned about particular science information becoming public, because it does not support the positions they advocate. So there is a pattern of suppressing the presentation of science results, and the stifling of research into areas that are politically uncomfortable.</p>
<p>And political parties do have back room, front room, side corridor, phone call, etc conversations where they explicitly discuss Party positions on bills.  They also play pressure games (within the party and with outsiders they can influence).  To suggest that doesn&#8217;t happen is completely uninformed on the ways of politics.</p>
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