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	<title>Comments on: SpaceX successfully tests Falcon 1 engine</title>
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 05:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Stark</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32893</link>
		<dc:creator>Stark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Mar 2007 23:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32893</guid>
		<description>Gary,

Other methods of space launch would be nice.... but they really aren't feasible and many of them probably never will be - for manned flight at least.  A rocket gets a good long time to accelerate to orbital velocity and can therefore do so at G loads that won't turn a human into jelly.  A railgun or magnetic launch system would not have that option.  You might be able to get a launcher 3 or 4 miles in length - maybe.  Acceleration from a standstill to orbital velocity (assuming an orbit alt. of 300km - similar to  the Shuttle) in 4 miles would impart a load of about ~580g over about .6 seconds(so sayeth the back o'the napkin).  580G does VERY bad things to the internal organs and skeletal system of humans. In order to have a railgun type launch system that wouldn't reduce a human to goo and actually allow them to survive the trip (say a 9g load) it would have to be somewhere around 380Km long....

So, not too terribly feasable - and this doesn't even take into account atmospheric drag and friction heating- which would be a real problem when you accelerate a vehilce to 7.7KM/sec at ground level.  I suspect you'd have to go quite a bit faster than 7.7KM per sec to achieve a 300KM orbit due to that drag.  I suggest you not roll the window for Fido to stick his head out...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary,</p>
<p>Other methods of space launch would be nice&#8230;. but they really aren&#8217;t feasible and many of them probably never will be - for manned flight at least.  A rocket gets a good long time to accelerate to orbital velocity and can therefore do so at G loads that won&#8217;t turn a human into jelly.  A railgun or magnetic launch system would not have that option.  You might be able to get a launcher 3 or 4 miles in length - maybe.  Acceleration from a standstill to orbital velocity (assuming an orbit alt. of 300km - similar to  the Shuttle) in 4 miles would impart a load of about ~580g over about .6 seconds(so sayeth the back o&#8217;the napkin).  580G does VERY bad things to the internal organs and skeletal system of humans. In order to have a railgun type launch system that wouldn&#8217;t reduce a human to goo and actually allow them to survive the trip (say a 9g load) it would have to be somewhere around 380Km long&#8230;.</p>
<p>So, not too terribly feasable - and this doesn&#8217;t even take into account atmospheric drag and friction heating- which would be a real problem when you accelerate a vehilce to 7.7KM/sec at ground level.  I suspect you&#8217;d have to go quite a bit faster than 7.7KM per sec to achieve a 300KM orbit due to that drag.  I suggest you not roll the window for Fido to stick his head out&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The Bad Astronomer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32875</link>
		<dc:creator>The Bad Astronomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2007 03:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32875</guid>
		<description>Jack, I said a "similar" system. I should have been specific, but I was just making a passing comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack, I said a &#8220;similar&#8221; system. I should have been specific, but I was just making a passing comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Hagerty</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32874</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Hagerty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32874</guid>
		<description>The Bad Astronomer Says: "Thatâ€™s probably to burn any leaked gases. The Shuttle has a similar system to make sure any bad gas gets burned off."

BAd gas! BAd!  No star for you!

Ahem.

The system for the shuttle to burn of any ambient hydrogen that might be floating around is not another rocket motor, it's all those "sparklers" you see in the closeup of the main engines at ME start.


XRayDog Says: "Are you sure the small jet is water deluge? Where is the exhaust from the gas generator? Thatâ€™s what I thought it was at first glance."

The exhaust from the pump turbines isn't always (if ever) a luminescent jet. It also doesn't appear to have any connections to the engine (i.e. propellant pump inlets and outlets), just some hoses.

I believe that what we're seeing is a cooling spray to protect the test area from the exhaust heat that's being illuminated by the exhaust plume. The big NASA and Air Force test sites either hung the test engines way up in the air, or pointed them out over a canyon.

The water deluge under the shuttle is not for cooling, but to absorb the acoustic energy that would otherwise be reflected off of the pad and shake pieces off of the vehicle stack. This is another Hermann Oberth idea that von Braun incorporated into the Saturn V design. If you watch "Die Frau im Mond" you'll see that the Frede is actually submerged over halfway into a pool at engine start!

- Jack</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Bad Astronomer Says: &#8220;Thatâ€™s probably to burn any leaked gases. The Shuttle has a similar system to make sure any bad gas gets burned off.&#8221;</p>
<p>BAd gas! BAd!  No star for you!</p>
<p>Ahem.</p>
<p>The system for the shuttle to burn of any ambient hydrogen that might be floating around is not another rocket motor, it&#8217;s all those &#8220;sparklers&#8221; you see in the closeup of the main engines at ME start.</p>
<p>XRayDog Says: &#8220;Are you sure the small jet is water deluge? Where is the exhaust from the gas generator? Thatâ€™s what I thought it was at first glance.&#8221;</p>
<p>The exhaust from the pump turbines isn&#8217;t always (if ever) a luminescent jet. It also doesn&#8217;t appear to have any connections to the engine (i.e. propellant pump inlets and outlets), just some hoses.</p>
<p>I believe that what we&#8217;re seeing is a cooling spray to protect the test area from the exhaust heat that&#8217;s being illuminated by the exhaust plume. The big NASA and Air Force test sites either hung the test engines way up in the air, or pointed them out over a canyon.</p>
<p>The water deluge under the shuttle is not for cooling, but to absorb the acoustic energy that would otherwise be reflected off of the pad and shake pieces off of the vehicle stack. This is another Hermann Oberth idea that von Braun incorporated into the Saturn V design. If you watch &#8220;Die Frau im Mond&#8221; you&#8217;ll see that the Frede is actually submerged over halfway into a pool at engine start!</p>
<p>- Jack</p>
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		<title>By: The Bad Astronomer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32873</link>
		<dc:creator>The Bad Astronomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2007 00:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32873</guid>
		<description>Now wait a sec. Spacexjim, with a name like that you gotta give more. You work for  SpaceX?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now wait a sec. Spacexjim, with a name like that you gotta give more. You work for  SpaceX?</p>
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		<title>By: Spacexjim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32892</link>
		<dc:creator>Spacexjim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32892</guid>
		<description>Thats is water being sprayed on the ground with 2 1inch fire hoses to keep the cement from cracking turing testing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thats is water being sprayed on the ground with 2 1inch fire hoses to keep the cement from cracking turing testing.</p>
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		<title>By: BMurray</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32891</link>
		<dc:creator>BMurray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2007 20:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32891</guid>
		<description>As long as we're capitalising space research by shooting pop stars into space, I'm all for it.  I don't really see the risk as being all that substantial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as we&#8217;re capitalising space research by shooting pop stars into space, I&#8217;m all for it.  I don&#8217;t really see the risk as being all that substantial.</p>
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		<title>By: Will. M</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32890</link>
		<dc:creator>Will. M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/03/15/spacex-successfully-tests-falcon-1-engine/#comment-32890</guid>
		<description>Yep, I too will miss the "cheap ticket to space" - should it ever happen.  My age isn't the only factor; given the current state of the economy and the tendency of our form of capitalism/government to make billionaires waay faster than mere "cattle car" fare payers, I doubt that many others will be able to afford that tourist space ride as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, I too will miss the &#8220;cheap ticket to space&#8221; - should it ever happen.  My age isn&#8217;t the only factor; given the current state of the economy and the tendency of our form of capitalism/government to make billionaires waay faster than mere &#8220;cattle car&#8221; fare payers, I doubt that many others will be able to afford that tourist space ride as well.</p>
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