It is funny that your questions posed to Lt. May in 2008 about where and when he witnessed the Phoenix lights went unanswered. And, if he was a pilot or an expert on airplane flight he should have also answered your question about how a formation of lights can travel silently at that speed. He is obviously another person who wants to be recognized as an authority (USAF) but runs and hides when pinned down on details.

The Phoenix lights (not the flares at 10:00pm) were observed up close and reported to 911 by hundreds of people. Some say there are that many kooks and liars out there… but I don’t buy it. Those types do exist, but they are not the majority.

I thought I posted in here after my last entry up there, wonder what happened to it? Oh well.

To tuffguy, are you a nutcase for thinking that things might be unidentified? No, of course not. Not in my opinion, anyway. As far as I’m concerned, and despite the various attempts, I still haven’t heard a convincing explanation for what I saw. Frankly I doubt the government knows the “truth” on this one either, but if they do, I’m sure you’re right, the odds of us hearing about it are pretty slim.

To you old farts who think that because you were a pilot that you can prove/disprove any theory- in thousands of years when we’re all gone and humans are visiting other worlds – you’ll never know how just how shortsighted you were.

I’m not disputing any of your points, actually…I don’t fly regularly, but I’ve definitely had some double takes in the air that on second glance turned out to be reflected light, or just another plane, etc. At any rate, I would really like to be convinced that there’s a prosaic explanation…obviously the whole thing scared the living crap out of me or I wouldn’t still bother thinking about it after all this time.

My perception was that the formation was indeed at a pretty high altitude, but just based on the way planes look and sound from the ground when I know their approximate altitude and airspeed…well, this still looked weird. I mean, from my experience, to move across the sky like these did, a plane would have to either at a low altitude, or moving incredibly fast. Like maybe a couple thousand feet up and moving at about 300-400 miles per hour. Certainly not out of the range of your average jet, but I’d think I would have heard something? All the other aircraft that I observed that day were clearly audible, even the ones that seemed to be above 20,000 feet. I was out in the woods, it was very quiet. So let’s say these were at a much higher altitude…they crossed about half the arc of the sky (before I lost sight) in a matter of about half a minute. If they were high enough not to be audible, how fast would they have to be moving to do that? 2,000-3,000 mph? I don’t know.

As to your question about why people who put forth reasonable, earthly explanations for weird looking things in the air get ridiculed for rejecting the possibility of extraterrestrial life, I don’t know…you’re right, what has the one thing got to do with the other? It’s like I said, though, when it comes to UFOs, people tend to be set in their way of thinking, whichever side of the fence they’re on. I guess it’s just human nature. People shouldn’t assume that just because someone looks for prosaic explanations for things that this means the person doesn’t accept the possibility of life elsewhere.

I think the simple explanation should always be sought. I’ve seen people get themselves all worked up about the “flashing red and green pulsating spaceship hovering in the sky” when it is obvious to me that they’re looking at the star Sirius. On the other hand, I think this goes both ways. All I meant before is that it seems that some people are patently unwilling to even entertain the possiblity that some things remain unexplained (for now). And some people definitely and vociferously reject even the mere possibility that life might exist anywhere but on earth…which I think does deserve ridicule, since it smacks of superstitious elevation of our planet to some unique status in all the universe that, to me, flies in the face of probability and logic.

As far as I’m concerned, 99 out of 100 weird-looking objects in the sky are just something ordinary being perceived in an odd way, or with strange light or atmospheric effects involved. For me, the vee formation that I saw was still downright weird and unexplained even taking all those things into account. I didn’t observe anything but a formation of lights…no solid objects, and none of the apparently non-ballistic flight behavior that others have reported, just five lights in a vee, banking very precisely in formation, moving extremely quickly, and not making any sound that I could hear. If they were just planes, albeit very fast and quiet ones with very bright landing lights, then I guess I have five pilots somewhere in the world to be mad at for scaring me like that.

Anyway, thanks again for your response, and thanks also for your service.

Why no “investigation”? Nothing to investigate. Dozens, probably hundreds, of aircraft overfly Sky Harbor and Luke AFB (where I am stationed) every day. If they are above a certain altitude, Luke and Sky Harbor radar never see them. Albuquerque or LA would be tracking them.

Impurities in the atmosphere can make aircraft lights look all different kinds of colors. Clouds can reflect light miles away and make them look like solid objects. I know. I’ve seen it before in the air. If you don’t fly on a regular basis, you will not accept this. So trust me.

The Air Force (which I am a member) has better things to do than to investigate something in the sky that people cannot identify. The purpose of the Air Force is to protect the United States. Why won’t people understand that?

Please answer me this: why is it when rational explanations are offered for unexplained aerial events, the person who challenges the “otherworldly” explanation is automatically ridiculed for not believing in extraterrestrial life? What does one have to do with the other?

Also, I love the use of movie tag lines like “We Are Not Alone”. That comes straight from the movie poster from Close Encounters of the Third Kind. It was a work of FICTION, folks (although a good one, it’s one of my favorite films.)

Well, I guess the believers will just think that I am part of the conspiracy.

Have a great day, everyone.

For the record, I do not “believe” in anything as far as all this goes. I am no kind of expert witness, but unlike a great many people who seem to have so much to say about the Phoenix Lights, I at least was there. It looked weird to me. I suppose the ‘vee’ formation (and to reiterate, what I remember seeing was a formation of separate lights over Prescott…I have nothing to say about any solid objects or anything at all that happened around Phoenix…I can only tell you what I saw) could have been planes, but as I mentioned in here before, I’ve seen a lot of planes in my life, and these lights did not look like planes except in the most superficial sense, being in the sky and all…and I did not hear any sound from them. It was weird and disturbing. It made quite an impression on me, and because of that I have read as much as I can find on the subject, including the “New Times” article above. As far as I’m concerned, none of it presents any conclusive evidence as to what I saw.

It is both amusing and frustrating to have people tell me that “my eyes must have been playing tricks on me” and “I know a guy who knows a guy who heard from his buddy who knows an airline pilot who saw this and it was airplanes” and blah blah blah. Any of you pilots and other experts in here actually see the thing? Speak up. The formation roughly followed the VOR signals, it sounds like, so that might be something to work with. Or it might not…who knows? The “easy” explanations about a Canadian aerobatic team, or a bunch of reckless private pilots pulling off an insane and dangerous hoax sound patently absurd to me. If it were that simple, I would hope the Air Force or somebody would have been able to figure it out and tell us about it. Then again, the whole thing could have been some secret experimental aircraft or something, but if so then flying it over populated areas seems a bit contrary to standard operating procedures if you see what I mean.

Anyway, I think there is a large segment of the population who simply can never accept even the possibility that we might not be able to explain some things. Assuming for the sake of argument that there are alien lifeforms who could be capable of defying all physics as we know it and visiting our planet, if an alien spaceship ever did do the proverbial landing on the Whitehouse lawn and all that, there would still be large numbers of people who wouldn’t be able to accept it. All the headlines in the world could suddenly be “WE ARE NOT ALONE — AND HERE’S THE PROOF” and they would probably just go completely insane or kill themselves in order to not have to face up to it. I think it’s probably on account of superstition or something. At any rate, thanks for the LOLs.

You claim that the government is lying to you. I propose that you just do not want to accept a rational explanation, therefore anything ANYONE says to the contrary is a lie.

I also propose that you begin to question the very people you are blindly following that you believe are telling you the “truth”. I went and read Steve Lantz’ website and, to put it bluntly, he doesn’t know what he is talking about.

First you have to convince me that a group of pilots would be stupid enough and brazen enough to think they could pull off such an elaborate hoax without being caught. Every pilot knows that penetrating Class B airspace (a 30-mile protective veil that surrounds every major airport in the country) without a proper ATC clearance, would get them into serious trouble. There is no way a fleet of Cessnas could fly silently, even with the engines running at idle, and avoid radar detection.

A fleet of aircraft entering Class B airspace without communication or clearance would be considered a serious threat and they most certainly would have been forced down by military pilots. Once on the ground the perpetrators would be arrested, heavily fined and face possible prosecution and prison time. The FAA would permanently suspend their licenses due to the magnitude of the crime. They would be thrashed by the media and lynched by the public.

Why would any pilot risk everything, believing that they could successfully pull off such an elaborate hoax, get away with it, go home, watch the 10′oclock news and have a nice laugh? Nobody ever got caught and nobody ever came forward to say “we did it.” Private pilots would never take such a risk, commercial pilots would never risk their flying careers, and airline pilots are constantly monitored by ATC. They would never attempt such a thing especially with a plane loaded with passengers. Obviously this witness concocted the entire story to get his mug on the six o’clock news!”

I’m through with wasting my time here and trying to preach to the deaf. For those of you who are intelligent and have an open mind, all I’m trying to do is bring the truth out. This doesn’t bother any other hard working, tax paying citizens that we are being lied to? Personally I find it very insulting that our government is passing off such ridiculous lies as the truth. For those who doubt this information, there is clearly no saving you from your own ignorance. This is the last comment I will be posting on this forum and it would be wise for anybody who wants the truth to look at all the information I have left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk&feature=related

Dear Aidemton,

Try this link instead. You won’t like what it has to say. Your kind only accept explanations that fit into your pre-conceived “other worldly” conclusions. How can you call yourself legitmate researchers?

Go ahead, rip the “New Times” article apart. We can’t wait to hear your further diatribes.

Lt. Philip Corso even though he may have gotten some of his facts mixed up due to the overwhelming amount of information he had to deal with was a very credible man. During his twenty-one year military career he was honored with nineteen medals, decorations and ribbons for meritorious service. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J._Corso
He served under General MacArthur and also worked under Arthur Trudeau who was a brave decorated veteran and who also was inducted into the Military Intelligence Hall of Fame.(link1)
I’m sure these hard working, honorable veterans who spent much of their lives working with the military and some of that in intelligence had nothing better to do with their time than to claim they were involved in a project that dealt with a crashed space ship. These are very credible and honorable men who made most of their lives out of finding justice and fighting for their country. If a crime takes place and you have a witness, the first thing to do is to assess the credibility of the witness and as far as these men or at least Corso telling the truth he seems to be a person of that merits to be taken serious. I’m not acting on this one fact alone but his claim coupled with all of the other investigations that have taken place. If you read up on all the facts and controversy over the whole Roswell incident it is not very hard to believe at all. Take the newspaper covering the article of the crashed disc and then retracting the story a day later. A news reporter who was going to broadcast the story of the crashed saucer was told that if she did “she should find a new line of work” by the FBI. There was intimidation of witnesses and ten’s of people who came forward with first hand information about a cover up. Unlike the Phoenix lights were it was merely a visual observation of a UFO sighting Roswell has a lot of first hand witness involvement of the incident by many credible people. Here alone is an article of people who were involved in the incident and then threatened by the military about what they had seen. http://www.truthseekeratroswell.com/ed022305.html . Now you have to ask yourself, why are people getting threatened like that over a weather balloon? The same type of balloon that usually had a return tag on it so if it went down in the desert somebody could just return it to the military like finding a lost wallet, nothing special or at least nothing worth threatening people over. Also the whole thing about people seeing bodies that the government explained away as anthropomorphic testing dummies is preposterous. I have first hand information from somebody whom had spoken to the guy who was the head of the anthropomorphic test-dummy program and what he said was pretty interesting. The testing of the dummies didn’t start taking place until the year 1953 that is six years after people said they saw them. Also the dummies are six feet tall and weigh 175 and are tan in color. I can’t figure out for the life of me how somebody saying they saw small grayish creatures with large heads that stood about 4 feet tall is even somewhat close to the description of what the military gave as an answer. Let not forget the fact there was a 6 year discrepancy in the sightings of what the people saw and what the military claimed! That is worse than when in November, 2006 O’Hare airport said the saucer craft that hovered over an airport terminal then punched a hole in the clouds when it left in front of many credible people was really just lights reflecting off the clouds. So to answer your question yes it would be great if some people could just accept a logical answer. The fact of the matter is if you did the research on the whole event the reason why so many people have settled on the answer I explained is because the evidence strongly points that way. So the conclusion would be that the evidence is the logical answer just not the kind of logic people are willing to accept.

As far as the pilots who claim because the phoenix light were traveling in a VOR path it had to be aircraft I could use the same basic logic that I used for Spaced Out Cadet. Just because you one fact does not mean it proves an answer. First off for people who do not know what a VOR path is it is a VHF (Very High Frequency) Omni-directional Radio Range used as a “air highway” that gives pilots a more direct path in their travels and does not require as much visibility when flying. The stations that emit these signals can be at airports but do not have to be. There are still a number of factors that go against that these were planes. Planes in this country do not travel in V-shaped formations. The military had nothing to do with the v-shaped formation and failed miserably to re-enact the phoenix lights in 2000 using flares. I already went over in my previous comments about the Snowbirds so I’m not going over that again. From first hand witness description there was no sound and I already went over that also. I’m going to quote a man who did much research on this because I’m actually through with repeating myself. Here are some reason about why they cannot be planes by Steve Lantz: “1) One of the air traffic controllers who was on duty that night admitted publicly that he saw the lights, but they did not appear on radar and he had no idea what they were. If the craft that flew right through the middle of Sky Harbor airspace was military or civilian, we would have known about it a long time ago, top secret or not. The controller would have admitted as much, but he didn’t. I personally spoke to him two years ago and he still maintains that he does not know what the lights were. This is an important fact in the Phoenix Lights case that is commonly overlooked — it is not possible for aircraft to enter into Class B airspace without the controller knowing about it, including military pilots who must comply with the same FAA rules in order to insure safe separation between aircraft in a busy airspace.2) As I explained in my Debunking article, a fleet of aircraft (and they would have to be a fleet in order to simulate the array that was seen by thousands), entering into Class B airspace without communication or clearance would be forced down by military pilots and we would have known all about those responsible. Military pilots would never risk their coveted flying careers by staging a hoax. I have personally spoken to several witnesses who are professional pilots and ex-military. They insisted that what they saw was no conventional aircraft. The thousands of witnesses that called into Francis Barwood’s office and the 911 call center claim that what they saw was an enormous craft flying low and slow and totally silent – all planes make noise and they fly over Phoenix all the time – It is a busy airspace. Does this guy expect you to believe that suddenly on one night, everybody looked up at planes flying over like they do every night and freaked out?!!! Thousands describe an enormous craft because the lights moved as if they were fixed to something, not a formation as this guy claims. It’s amazing how people will sooner believe in such nonsense rather than accept the “possibility” of the unknown. Many of the skeptical minds out there are quick to dismiss the ET explanation. For the record, there is no evidence at all, certainly no proof, that can categorically explain away all UFO sightings, so this remains an open possibility, like it or not!”

As far as the negative comment from reality guy goes, it one of the best backhanded compliments I have ever gotten. Though I never considered by self a satirist, I’m cool with the idea even though it was dripping with sarcasm. I could easily have said a similar thing about you and your ignorance and suspect it was to direct the attention away from the fact I made you look like a fool. I believe that you were once again under the pre-conceived notion that the only people who believe in UFOs are people who wear tin hats and hide in their houses from the government; not people who might look at a case with the same type of scientific standpoint as any good researcher who constantly try to prove or disprove their theories to find an answer. Once again when it came to this you were wrong. Laugh it up man; laughing will actually make you live longer believe it or not.(link2) The dramatic irony of the whole situation to me is that from my standpoint I’m the one who is correct, so I see a bunch of fools laughing at their own stupidity. How funny do you think that situation is to me? I believe in the old saying that “He who laughs last, laughs best” and it seems there is no convincing some people so only time will tell.

I love the comments here. What a hoot. But I do have an observation:

Having read a lot of the accounts of the Phoenix Lights (not the flares in the southwest Valley), I have on an aeronautical sectional from 1997 made a chart of the path of the big “V” thing (according to the positions of all the witnesses), and discovered that one of the previous bloggers is absolutely correct.

The V-shaped spaceship did in fact follow a perfect VOR path from roughly the Las Vegas area through northern Arizona to past Tucson. The formation of lights even followed Interstate 17, which is what high flying aircraft normally do (follow a highly visible, known path i.e. cars on an interstate).

Why have none of the “believers” addressed this? I find it amazing that they will leap to the conclusion of extraterrestrial craft but have a harder time accepting logical, rational explanations. The believers seem so wrapped up in their desire to see something paranormal that they ignore the reasonable explanations right in front of them.

OK, that is my two cents worth. Fire away, everyone!!! Good day to you all.

Thank you for the wonderful response. I have printed it out and distributed it among my fellow pilots here at US Airways.

It has provided us with hours of howling laughter.

As a satirist, you are tops!! If you are serious, it is scary to think that you are out there possibly pro-creating, voting, driving, serving on juries.

Live long and prosper and may the Force be with you.

In a lame attempt to write me off as crazy and paranoid you made a dimwitted attempt to discredit me by saying “Put on your tin hats!!!”. It think it is pretty sad because I tore apart your answer in so many different ways I made you look like a fool. You felt dumb and because you were literally speechless you had nothing else to do by try to discredit me and say in other words that I’m nothing but crazy. Yeah that is a pretty easy cop-out when somebody has you beat to say”You are crazy so you must be lying”; when in fact I provided a wealth of information and references to back up what I was saying. It does not change the fact that you have absolutely no good points or facts to back them up. If you did ANY research on that comment I made about the government covering up certain aspects of UFO’s; you really wouldn’t have to dig that deep to find the truth. You told me to wear my tin hat and I’m telling you that your head is like an empty tin can.

I’m only going to list these facts for the people that are smart enough to do the research because I know some people reading will not even look at the FACTS. In reference to the Phoenix lights where there were two different sets of lights the air force explained them both away as flares. The military staged a flare demo in 2000 hoping to convince everyone that what they actually saw were flares. The demonstration totally backfired as it gave witnesses an opportunity to make a fair comparison and conclude that there was no similarity at all to what they saw. I know the 2nd set of light was proven to be flares but it gave people the prefect opportunity to conclude that this was not even close to what they saw. They tried to pull a cover up and were greatly unsuccessful.

Another example is of the a goverment covered up which is verified by the pilots and people operating the the radar equiptment happened in July, 1952 over the skies of Washington DC. Fighters were sent out to scramble UFO’s over Washington and could not catch them or explain them. The government had the chief of intelligence of the USAF General Samford hold a national press conference and report what happened to the media. He told the media that what happened was a atmospheric anomaly where a layer of gas caused an inversion where radar signals bounced off the layer and picked up ground objects such as car and displayed them on the radar screen. The media ate it right up and reported it the whole country. The senior air traffic controller at the time, Harry Barnes later wrote an article in the paper describing these objects making right angle turnes then hovering and traveling at speed up to 7,200mph. Sorry to point this out but this definetly does not fit the description even if these were cars caught on radar; which is a ridiculous explanation in the first place. The Air Force spokesman on ufo issues, Al Chop later came out on tape and said, “At that time I was convinced that these things were interplanetary machines of some kind…I’m convinced those objects are real, we don’t’ know what they are or where they come from but they are there”. As history went though, it was reported as a weather phenomenon and you don’t have to have and IQ of 200 to be able to figure what the true story was. Watch this video for these inteview an real footage of parts of this event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKhaNhSc8vw .
Read this about how many astronauts have come out and spoken not only the existence of UFO’s and thier cover up by the government and NASA. The fact is this really did happen; astronaut Gordon Cooper officialy addressed the U.N. about UFO’s. He also speculates about why they are covered up saying, ”Why? Because authority is afraid that people may think of God knows what kind of horrible invaders. So the password still is: We have to avoid panic by all means.” http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc523.htm http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc507.htm . Yeah but even after seeing all of this I’m just being paranoid, wake up!.

Once again some knucklehead supposedly pulls a hoax and ties some flares to a few balloons and it has morons like Reality Guy saying because one person pulls a hoax that all sighting are hoaxes. First of all there has to be more research done because droves of clowns came out of the wood work claiming to see or know of what happened with the lights back in 1997. I just exposed two people for the fools that they are in my earlier comments with great detail on some of these claims about the Snowbirds or that the first set of lights were planes; so do not believe everything that you hear. If this guy really did come forward and they find this to be true he is going to be in so much trouble this it will hardly be a funny hoax. Any responsible adult doesn’t have to put 2+2 together to realize how thoughtlessly moronic a stunt like this is. Talk about liability, such as one of these things landing on somebody’s house or starting a brush fire that could potentially hurt or kill large numbers of people. If once again you had the brain power to actually check your facts you would find out the scientific UFO community do not jump to conclusions and review ALL fact before they decide how to explain a sighting. Nobody from any serious UFO community has made any claims about this being true(meaning a UFO only explainable by extra-terrestrial means)because they do not have enough facts about it yet. There were not even any witness testimony that described these lights being attached to a craft like in 1997. At this point there is not much in common with these two cases minus location and being some lights in the sky. These were not proven to fly or float in any type of affixed geometrical pattern for any prolonged distance. So assuming that we believe this was a UFO and making an ass out of yourself does not embarrass anybody in the UFO community. Also to Feh am Legend, for being a coward only half-way agreeing you believe; calling the serious scientific community “nuts” and “paranormal folks” is hardly the truth. Looks like that you really believe but since you are scared to admit it and be called “crazy” you play it safe on the fence. Mufon(Mutual UFO Network) is a large group of respected people from the scientific community who do witness interviews and investigation on every sighting. They kicker is they actually try to explain a sighting. Just recently people were calling about strange lights in the sky above Orange County, California and they found the truth. After doing extensive research, interviewing witnesses and calling a military base they found out what the lights were; The Leap Frogs which is a Navy Parachute team doing tricks in the sky with pyrotechnics. Only if after an extensive investigation by all where all logical an explainable hypotheses have been completely ruled out do they state a real sighting as a conclusion. Actually by nature all UFO’s are real sightings because by nature people do not know what they are BUT most of them can be explained by investigations; it’s the one that CANNOT that are taken seriously. Where the hell do you get those stupid sayings from like, ”I’d love to see a scan of the inside of your heads. Like a fire drill at the asylum”. Did you spend time in an asylum of some sort? I can only imagine the unintelligent, incredible, moronic response I’m going to get from this comment that is not going be to even worth replying to.

If you don’t know what VOR is, look it up.

They were airplanes.

After what happened this week in Phoenix with the heliumn balloons and the road flares, you must be turning red with embarassment.

I’d love to see a scan of the inside of your heads. Like a fire drill at the asylum.

I wasn’t there; chances are most of you weren’t either. But obviously those videos, while showing nothing definitive, aren’t flares. And “I know a guy who knows a guy who spoke to a guy who spoke with some Canadian fighter pilots who were breaking international air-space and it was definitely that” is just as bad as those who say “I could sense some higher intelligence speaking to me.” Hey, did you hear that the kid who woke up to find his kidneys had been removed? I swear, it happened to a friend of my cousin!

There’s a lot of gray in this world, and the hardcore skeptics are just as guilty as the hardcore religious/paranormal folks of discounting a lot of evidence that is inconvenient to their argument.

Hurry, “UFO Hunters” is starting in a few minutes!!!!