Weird title, eh? Bear with me.
I just learned that Lisa Nowak, the astronaut who, um, took a little cross-country jaunt to, um, have a chat with a fellow astronaut, will be given a NASA Spaceflight Medal. According to the press release, the honor
… recognizes distinguished individuals and groups from across [Johnson Space Center] and the surrounding area for their outstanding contributions to the Nation’s space program.
OK. Well, Nowak was an accomplished astronaut, despite her later tribulations. So does she deserve a medal?
I am reminded of Pete Rose. He is an American baseball player, and to be blunt was incredible. He holds many records, and deserved to be in the Hall of Fame. But then he was accused of betting on games, including games played by his own team. He was put on a list that forbids him from ever getting into the Hall. This is still controversial among fans.
So: do you honor someone for their work, even though later in life they may have done something terrible? I suppose if the stipulations of a medal or honor say it’s for their body of work, then you have to consider everything they’ve done. I feel badly for Nowak, I really do, but I wonder if this was a good PR move on NASA’s part. Wait until the mainstream media find out.
Ego Update (June 2): The way kewl Angela Gunn at USAToday has posted her own comments on this issue, linking here to the BABlog.
June 2nd, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Difficult question.
You can’t diminish someone’s achievements because of later mental illness, though in this case, Nowak caused suffering to her colleagues (and could have caused much much worse).
I don’t think this is the best time to put the spotlight back on Nowak. She needs to be away from the cameras and the press for the next few years.
June 2nd, 2007 at 12:52 pm
She didn’t go crazy on the space-shuttle and murder her fellow astronauts, so she might as well get the medal. But I also think Rose should be in the Hall of Fame.
June 2nd, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Need a little more background information (how often ceremonies are held, etc) to make a serious call, but it looks like anyone who flies on a shuttle (list includes people from the last two missions) gets a NASA spaceflight medal. While I would question her getting an award for ‘lifetime service to the astronaut corps’ (the equivalent to the Hall of Fame for Pete Rose, using Phil’s analogy), this award seems to fit the bill.
It is awkward timing, especially since she’s not assigned to Houston anymore. They could have just omitted her name from the list and shipped her the medal in a box. Would that move have gotten noticed?
Wikipedia lists the medal, and says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Space_Flight_Medal
It’s likely become practice that everyone who flies gets a medal unless they do something wrong in the flight.
June 2nd, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Well, here’s a possible band-aid to solve the issue at least temporarily: did she really do anything all that outstanding for the space program? I’m sure she was quite the pro during her career, a talented individual. But on the other hand, for the last two decades shuttle astronauts have been a redundant resource. They’re all talented professionals in comparison to the average citizen. But within the astronaut population, if you’ve seen one you’ve seen most of them.
June 2nd, 2007 at 1:10 pm
*Scratches head* I dunno, but I think the wacko side of Nowak will be far more remembered than her spaceflight record. So in my humble opinion, baaad move NASA.
June 2nd, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Sorry about forgetting to close the blockquote in my post. It should close just before the wikipedia entry, if anyone is editing.
June 2nd, 2007 at 1:59 pm
You gotta admit she’s pretty spacey!
June 2nd, 2007 at 2:22 pm
I don’t think we should judge people by the worst things they’ve ever done. If you look for bad in someone you’ll find it. Pete Rose should be in the hall of fame and Lisa Nowak should get her medal. Incidentally both Rose and Nowak lost their jobs, they were punished for their actions (as it should be). But to say that either of them have no redeeming qualities is absurd.
June 2nd, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Um… There’s bad… And bad. What Pete Rose did was very, very, VERY mild compared to what Nowak did. So I don’t think that both cases should be associated. It’s totally different. What Rose did was unethical by Baseball standards, what Nowak did was freaky and criminal.
June 2nd, 2007 at 2:43 pm
I’ve got the perfect solution…we launch Pete Rose into space.
Seriously, comparing her to Rose is a bit of a stretch. Rose did something illegal “relating to” and while “involved in” the game. Norwak did something illegal, but it had nothing to do with her space mission…which is what she is receiving the medal for.
June 2nd, 2007 at 3:34 pm
If Pete Rose is allowed into the hall of fame, so should Joe Jackson. Pete Rose bet on Cincinnati Reds baseball games while he was the manager of that team. Anyone who knows anything about betting knows that there is a feature called the point spread in which one bets on a team to either win or lose by a certain amount. There is no way to tell whether managerial decisions Mr. Rose made were influenced by the point spread. Even if he never caused games to the thrown,or never bet against his team, he could have made certain strategic calls which affected the final score, if not the result.
June 2nd, 2007 at 4:25 pm
If I recall correctly, Pete Rose bet on his own team to win.
June 2nd, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Has anyone asked Nowak how she feels about it? Maybe she would prefer to just forget the whole thing. That would solve the problem for both sides.
June 2nd, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Oh, and they’re also awarding Marsha Ivins the Distinguished Service Medal.
June 2nd, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Was Pete Rose ever brought up on criminal charges? It’s before my time and I don’t follow baseball too much, so I’m ignorant on that count. If he wasn’t then I’d hesitate to compare the two cases.
June 2nd, 2007 at 6:27 pm
It may have been ‘freaky and criminal’ what she did, but she worked to achieve something for NASA. She did, despite her problems, do the job that she was supposed to with her space mission.
In regards to her ‘jaunt’, she was clearly under tremendous problems at the time (love and loss of love makes us all do crazy things to some degree), AND she’s being punished for it. It’s a separate issue.
Maybe, as Bad Albert says, she will decline the honor. Maybe, this will be a start to getting her back on her feet. Doesn’t everyone deserve recognition for hard work and a second chance?
June 2nd, 2007 at 7:04 pm
Yes, I believe her jaunt totally destroys what she has accomplished. NASA is supposed to do screenings that show that their staff is sane, right? Well they sure missed a big one there. Not to forget too: the matter involved two more astronauts if I remember well. While this was not related to their job, it’s still very tied up to it and does *not* help polishing the sanity of the field.
June 2nd, 2007 at 7:29 pm
Dammit it was late onset Space Madness! They just didn’t quarantine her long enough after the secret missions. The Val Allen radiation belt causes these mental collapses. Just look at Buzz Aldrin when he lost it and punched that voice of reason, Bart Sibrel.
It’s a perfect application of Occam’s Electric Shaver.
Seriously, I think her personal issues have nothing to do with the quality of her work.
June 2nd, 2007 at 8:19 pm
” NASA is supposed to do screenings that show that their staff is sane, right? Well they sure missed a big one there.”
Good lord, the ignorance is astounding. You can screen for whether there are already problems, but problems may come up later. We don’t pop out of the womb with our lifetime of issues baked in and listed on the birth certificate.
IMHO, she should get the medal. If she was unbalanced in her last mission, then she held it together under conditions more difficult than the average astronaut would face. If she was fine during her last mission, then her performance during it is no less deserving.
I wonder how many current- and ex-Astronauts have engaged in behavior which was questionable but didn’t get any attention in the press.
June 2nd, 2007 at 9:14 pm
Pete Rose should be in the hall of fame, Lisa Nowak should get her medal.
Pete Rose never gets to go back on a baseball field in an official capacity and Lisa Nowak never gets to fly a shuttle again.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:07 am
Here’s a side note, showing the typical inconsistency of such awards. According to Wikipedia again, John C. Mather, the Nobel Laureate, wasn’t awarded NASA’s Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Exceptional_Scientific_Achievement_Medal
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:15 am
I’m not an ignorant, keep the insults to yourself.
Such a creep is not born out of the blue. There must’ve been some signs before. And I still stand my ground: she’s a creep and the last thing she deserves is an award of any kind so close after her deed, related or not. And you can’t compare that to a dude that betted in baseball, come on. That wasn’t criminal if I’m not mistaken. And MLB is a PRIVATE institution.
The big problem here lays with the fact that what Nowak did was CRIMINAL and that NASA is a government funded agency. You can’t just award a criminal.
And wow. Pretty inconsistent indeed. I can see they have weird standards.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:48 am
Was it Love, or just Lust? Either way, I can sympathise. Love and lust can cause humans to do all kinds of screwy things. There is no way to know what Nowak would have done if she had not been caught. It might be true that her intent was only to scare the other woman off. You dont KNOW. What I DO know is that in a different time in my life when I was told by the “love of my life” that she wanted to divorce me, I went bug nutz. I did all kinds of things I would not do today. I know this is not exactly the same situation and I never hurt anyone or even tried to, but I relate to that feeling of desperation and loss.
I want to bring up another point. Before the first Mercury launches, while the astronauts were in training in Florida, quite a few of them had affairs. This was stringently kept out of the press. By today’s moral standard, these guys were dog’s. But they were also hero’s. Would anyone deny the accomplishments, bravery, and capabilities of the Mercury Seven? I tend to think that what a person does outside the work place does not diminish accomplishments IN the workplace. In Lisa’s case, the workplace is the Shuttle and she didnt screw up there. Give her the medal but I wouldn’t make a big public deal out of it.
June 3rd, 2007 at 5:25 am
I don’t see harm in treating someone better than some think he or she desrves. I hope she can treasure that award, and I hope it brings her some happiness.
June 3rd, 2007 at 6:17 am
BAD,
Let’s get the facts right regarding Pete Rose. He has admitted betting on major league baseball games and lying about it. He is shunned by most in the sporting world, including many of his former team mates, with the exception of a few Cincinnati diehard fans.
As for Nowak, I suspect that space travel does strange things to the traveler, some positive and some not. Rose doesn’t have that as an alibi.
June 3rd, 2007 at 7:31 am
I actually have some sympathy for Nowak (because you never know when a human being can snap), but I also think this just goes to show that a manned space program is not the way to go for the time being. We keep making better robots every year, but human evolution is much slower. I see little value to sending humans to do a job that a robot can do better, cheaper and safer. Nowak proved that even astronauts are human, and manned spaceflight is increasingly losing its raison d’etre.
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:10 am
Setting aside the question of whether Nowak should receive the same medal that all NASA astronauts routinely receive after a flight, please note that the target of her cross-country assault was not another astronaut. There were only two astronauts in this love triangle (both Naval officers on detached duty to NASA) and the third person is a young Air Force officer.
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:23 am
This just goes to show that women must never be allowed to go to space because they will end up doing things which endangers the reputation of all astronauts.
Don’t just judge me and label me as sexist. Think about it. Women are only good at bitching about each other and have no control of what they do and the consequences of their actions.
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:25 am
Apparently she was a good astronaut, so she deserves the medal for that, unlike the case of baseball.. a sport of which i know nothing about… or any other sport for that matter… i believe it is different, because betting on your own team or against your own team could cause a conflict of interests and such might be reflected on the outcome of the game, what novak did, didn’t necessarily affected her job, or any NASA mission, it was definitely wrong, but it was a personal matter that she just couldn’t handle properly… i mean, it’s her private life, she’e human.. a little bit crazy, but a good astronaut. of course i wouldn’t put her on a shuttle afterwards…
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:55 am
Michelle: People crack up for many and varied reasons, but the underlying cause is usually a neurochemical imbalance, which may be mitigated or initiated by environmental interaction with the individuals genes. Meaning, she was certifiably sane by objective measurements at the time she was an astronaut but LATER became to ill to function in a social context. Give her the damned award. She earned it,,,
GAry 7
June 3rd, 2007 at 9:08 am
rapniv says: Don’t just judge me and label me as sexist.
If you don’t want to be judged as sexist, then perpas you should not make sexist comments….sheesh
June 3rd, 2007 at 9:10 am
“perpas” is perhaps in RAFese.
June 3rd, 2007 at 9:56 am
NASA giving her an award is in keeping with our government policies. For example: “You’re doing a heck of a job Brownie” and giving the Medal of Freedom to George Tenet!
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:10 am
The Spaceflight medal looks standard, almost like the medals we got just for being on the swim team (sorry for the lame comparison). If it was the Distinguished Service medal, I’d say no, but as a member of a shuttle crew she perfomed her duties, so let her have it. She might not even show up to receive it.
http://nasapeople.nasa.gov/awards/nasamedals.htm
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:11 am
This is an interesting question, but it happens all the time in various fields. The Nobel prize for instance, is notorious for those moments that certain would-be candidates are snubbed a medal. Just a few years ago, the Nobel Prize in Medicine for the discovery of MRI snubbed Damadian, who’s initial work lead to further development of that technology. He is a creationist, which is the probably reason he wasn’t awarded the medal, and therefore, that leads to a similar question. If a note-worthy scientists, is also a creationist, does he/she deserve a nobel prize (still hard to believe that anyone so deeply mired in empirical evidene can still retain their childhood notions of the supernatural)?
These are all difficult questions, and I think the best thing to do is look at it on a case-by-case basis. As for Nowak, she went through all the training and motions as an Astronaut and for her years of work and dedicated service, does deserve some kind of recognition.
As for Pete Rose, they have to give the guy a break. There are worse cheaters, especially with the steroid scandal, then some gambling that Rose did. Look at Barry Bonds, he’s reaching a milestone, and anybody with some common sense and eyesight can realize that he’s the biggest juice-head in baseball these days. These guys are undermining baseball to its core foundation, while Pete Rose managed to superficially provide a few sratches on the surface.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:17 pm
What year is this, 2007 or 1907? Rapniv, I couldn’t believe what I was reading when I saw your comment about how women shouldn’t be allowed to fly in space. So, all women can do is “bitch about each other” and have “no control over what they do”? WHAT???? And you’re not a sexist? Anyone who thinks like that and insists that he’s NOT a sexist is the worst kind of sexist there is. I know a few (mild) sexists, but at least they seem to know what they are and if called a sexist usually just shrug their shoulders and have the good grace to look mildly embarrassed. Anyone who puts such prejudiced and narrow-minded comments on a PUBLIC forum, and actually expects them to be taken seriously, can only be a bona-fide, fee-paying sexist whose patethic prejudices against another gender are so in-grained into his psyche that he’s probably never going to figure out for himself just how….wrong he is.
BTW, don’t any women log onto BA? I’m surprised that rapniv’s comments haven’t unleased a maelstorm of indignation!
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Comparing Pete Rose and Lisa Nowak is not fair. Pete Rose’s motivation was greed and greed only. He comitted a criminal act based upon this. Lisa Nowalk also committed a criminal act. Her motivation was extreme jealousy based on mental illness. Mental illness is a medical problem. In few years when the media frenzy dies and she is deemed by the public to be of “sound mind”, it would be appropriate to honor her with a medal.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Irishscribe: There are many women who contribute to the BA’s site. I suspect that the silence you’ve observed relates to the practice of not providing nutrition to those who are members of the mythological race best known for residing under bridges.
Or otherwise: “Don’t feed the trolls.”
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Is what Pete Rose did wrong? Yes, but if you take into account everything that some baseball players did then not nearly as many would be in the hall as there are.
Lisa Nowack is a loony. If she weren’t an astronaut, she would have been locked up in a mental institute without a question.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Esteban Says:
“Pete Rose should be in the hall of fame, Lisa Nowak should get her medal.
Pete Rose never gets to go back on a baseball field in an official capacity and Lisa Nowak never gets to fly a shuttle again.”
IMHO, I think we have a winner.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:19 pm
Imagine my shock at seeing an opinion contrary to mine posted (at 1:06 PM) by someone else under the same screen name that I have been using. Apparently it is possible for two people to post under the same moniker.
Lisa made a very big mistake. Let us leave it at that and move on. I hope she can lead a happy life from here on. She lost both her job and her career, and whatever legal actions may have been taken are in the hands of the court system.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Looks pretty clear to me that the Spaceflight Medal is the NASA equivalent of the Army Commendation Medal. It’s just one up from the bottom (Army Achievement Medal). Certainly not to be confused with the higher award. Nothing further to see here.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Irishscribe: we may also be feverishly trying to find him. He may very well be the elusive and mysterious missing link we’ve been wondering about. There’s a chance that rapniv was hatched. See, there’s no way that he (or she; I have actually heard the occassional woman wave such silliness about, but only in the presence of other extreme conservatives– and then I run, as there’s usually a very aggressive and heavily dented Bible not so far away) was the result of a live, mammalian birth.
In other words: what would rapniv’s mother say, if rapniv’s mother heard that comment?
Additionally, how many female teachers do you think rapniv has to thank for education?
No fear, rapniv. I won’t judge. I’m just human, and what’s more, I’m a woman. Perhaps in your opinion that makes me less. (FACT: it doesn’t.) But I’ll leave you all with a list of some folk I think are pretty impressive. Perhaps you’ll recognize a few. I invite you to google some or all. They may have some relation to astronauts, or not; you can be the judge. But I know how they relate to rapniv’s 2nd paragraph.
Eleanor Roosevelt — “You must do the thing you think you cannot do.” I’m a teacher. I repeat this quote to myself hourly, to my students, daily.
Amelia Earhardt
Ruth Nichols — 35 flying records!!!
Marie Curie
Rachel Carson
Dian Fossey
Margaret Mead
Harriet Quimby
Mary and Maeve Leakey (their entire family is amazing)
Pearl S. Buck
Jane Goodall — not just an incredibly gifted scientist, but a very kind and considerate person. I have enormous and deep personal affection for this generous person; another intellectual offspring of the Leakey family.
Anne Lindbergh (yes, THAT Lindbergh, but a far kinder and more generous heart than her more famous husband, who now famously sympathized with Germany during WWII)
speaking of WWII, loads of WASPs and WACs
Florence Nightingale
Lucy Wheelock
Sophie Germain
Maria Goeppert Mayer
Valentina Grizodubova
Maria Mitchel
Caroline Herschel
France Anne Cordova, the youngest highest ranking official at NASA
Henrietta Leavitt
Winifred Goldring
…just a very small portion of so women who, WITH MEN, because it’s an equation, make our world so much better. Now, go find more. Or better yet, inspire your friends and the next generation. That’s what I’m doing! And it is soooooo much fun!
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:21 pm
My vote goes towards presenting the award. The medal isn’t intended as an “Exemplary Life” kind of thing – it provides recognition of a demanding and dangerous task: successfully completing a space mission. While there are many of us who claim that we would go into space, given the chance, we forget that we are not “given a chance” – it is earned, first through a selection process, and then through rigorous training, and finally in the personal acceptance that you are strapping yourself to a vast concentration of explosives and hurling yourself into an environment that is instantly fatal to life without serious protection. That deserves respect.
What happened on the ground, outside of NASA’s purview, doesn’t change this in any way, any more than the behavior and personalities of every other astronaut who received this recognition changed their performance during their missions.
We also are really quick to forget that we really don’t know all the details regarding the incident, and are relying solely on mass media to provide them. I hope I’m not alone in recognizing that counting on the media to get the facts straight without exaggeration or bias is a stupid move of magnificent proportions.
NASA has my respect for maintaining their perspective and goals regarding the award, and making a public display of this. In a society where we pay attention to the opinion of celebrities because they act in films or sing songs, I think we need more examples of focusing on the issues themselves, and not extraneous details or personal matters. And, quite possibly, this is a step forward in Ms. Nowak’s own healing process.
As for Pete Rose, he needs to burn in hell. Nobody screws with baseball, man!
(Yes, just kidding on that last part. Spectator sports are all bilge water anyway, who cares what kind of song and dance goes along with them?)
June 3rd, 2007 at 6:05 pm
I believe Pete Rose was “banned for life” from the Baseball and the Baseball Hall of Fame. That’s a situation that will eventually change. Or is that phrase not meant to be taken literally?
June 3rd, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Some people seem to think that mental illness is something that is present at birth, ie “in our genes”, while others assert that it is something that develops later, due to external influences. It may, or not, present at a time and cause certain difficulties.
I happen to believe the latter generally, though some conditions can be hereditory, but they usually are noticed at birth. In any case, the condition may never surface, if there is no impetus for the person to “snap”.
I think Ms Nowak should be presented her medal, it is no “big” deal, not as a real lifetime award should be, a definite recognition of extraordinary service at retirement. Rather, it is the award a conciencious worker can aspire to and expect, especially in a governmental department, for a job well done.
She can hardly expect any other award in the future. With appropriate treatment, she can still be a valuable contributer to society, a far better solution to hounding her to the in-evitable position of having to rely on taxpayers funds for her wellbeing, for the rest of her life.
Give her a break, at least after she has her day in court.
Ivan.
June 3rd, 2007 at 6:52 pm
According to commissioner Bud Selig, it’s literal, though he can apply for reinstatement every year. Of course, the commissioner would have to give the final approval, and that’s not likely to happen anytime soon. He should be able to go to rehab and get it all fixed. It works for everyone else, why not Pete Rose?
June 3rd, 2007 at 7:17 pm
Pete Rose was employed by MLB. It was a MLB rule that you cannot bet on baseball. He violated that rule, and then lied about it…numerous times.
His baseball career is one item. They don’t split it up between his playing years and his managing years, and as a whole, he should never be allowed in the baseball HOF.
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:37 pm
The solution is obvious – induct Lisa Nowak into the Baseball Hall of Fame and give Pete Rose the NASA Spaceflight Medal.
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Dunno about the spaceflight medal but they should award her the Golden bedpan & a lifetime’s supply of adult nappies!
Baseball balony – iany otherball game just isn’t cricket!
June 4th, 2007 at 12:25 am
(to clarify the spacing / typos) “Baseball is balony – any other ball game just iasn’t cricket!
Cricket, of course, being the one true sport!
Levity aside now :
In fairness there was a possibly analogous case of controversy with cricket too – former South African Skipper (team captain) Hansie Conje, who bet on games, threw them, & organised match-fixing incl. getting otehr players involved. He got banned for life, utterly disgraced and died in a plane crash many years later. Can’t say about how much like Rose it was as I know (& care) nothing for baseball …
I’ll add my agreement to those saying Lisa Nowak deserves that medal for her spaceflight achievements and sympathy as much as condemnation for her later … er.. incident. Whether clinically insane or just love / lust sick, she’s human like us all. OK like most of us anyhow!
It amazes me that so-called traditional value holding, conservative “Christians” pay so much heed to obscure clearly mythological parts of the Old Testament eg. World made in 7 days, Sun orbits Earth not vice-versa based on a line on Joshua or whatever yet totally ignore the main thrust of the New Testament – “Love thy neighbour” and “Judge not for who is themself without sin?”
Whether you consider him a charismatic philosopher-teacher or the literal Son of God, Jesues foremost preaching was about forgiveness. You know, love thy neighbour, tolerate others (he hung about with prostitutes and tax collectors) – behave kindly to those less fortunate, don’t throw stones at women who are accused – possibly rightly ,possiblywrongly, of sexual misconduct etc ..
How did Christ’s self declared believers end up so being so judgemental, cruel, hypocritical, unforgiving, arrogant and wilfully ignorant?
BTW. I’m an atheist or agnostic. I think Jesus was awise human being whosaida lot thatmade sense – & I think his followers are, by &large pretty barmy especially when itcomes to interfering inpolitics and society tomake a less tolerant, less merciful, less compassionate system thasn they one they’re in now.
Lisa Nowak is clearly a woman who has – & perhaps is -messed up.
Are any of us really that hugely better than her?
I wouldn’t give her an exceptional medal as being the best of astronauts but I wouldnt deny her something they all (?) get for flying and doing their jobs well @ the time. As for PR – they can stick it – we get wa-aay too much PR and media interference in _everything_ as it is.
June 4th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Naturally my cvomments on Christians were genresalisations directedat the sort of Creatitionist, Literalist, fundamentalist Bible-Bletres who give their religionand themsleves such a bad name.
No offence intended to the other Christians who are like Muslims, Buddhists and all other folk a diverse bunch of people.
Yes I get judgemental myself when it comes to those Judgemental, anti-science, holier than thou type … bankers with a subsitituted first letter …
June 4th, 2007 at 3:26 am
I agree with Michelle re the difference of Nowak’s and Rose’s deeds, but I consider Pete Rose the worst criminal, who willingly cheated and stole from his own colleges and fans. Lisa Nowak completely lost it emotionally and there is no proof she would in effect have gone the whole way. She is not the villain the gutter press made of her, as shown by the intelligent decision by NASA to honor her exceptional carreer.
And speaking about a creep, how about this ‘rapniv’ here? I’d rather meet Lisa freaking out that this kind of creature. Shshshivvers….
June 4th, 2007 at 3:57 am
Hansie Cronje was much worse than Pete Rose. There’s no evidence that Rose fixed matches and his major crime seems to have been betting on his own team to win. Cronje, otoh, was actively involved in match fixing including throwing wickets and matches. If Rose had been a cricketer he’d probably have got away with a slap on the wrist or a short suspension. Even Cronje’s closest co-conspirators got very mild punishments.
June 4th, 2007 at 4:42 am
OK, so is there any hard evidence that Lisa Novak has a mental illness? Or are we all just speculating?
June 4th, 2007 at 7:06 am
It’s all speculation regarding Novak.
And we’re not the best to judge if she deserves a medal or not. Fin.
June 4th, 2007 at 8:28 am
A few facts…
1. The NASA Space Flight Medal is awarded to all astronauts for flying in space. Nowak flew in space. Ergo, she earned the medal.
2. The NASA Awards Ceremony is held once a year in June. Since Nowak flew in late 2006, this is the first ceremony since her flight. Ergo, this is the ceremony to announce the medal award.
3. Many of these awards have already been presented in some other ceremony. It is likely that Nowak already received the medal at some point after her flight. This is just the official tally in the annual award ceremony. So she’s not likely to have the actual medal revoked. It is also likely that she will not be there in person.
As far as Nowak getting the award, she earned it. NASA isn’t writing off her service record because of her breakdown. The timing isn’t great, but NASA’s choice was to drop her name from the list and look petty or include her name and look idiotic.
As far as mental illness, we are all diagnosing without a license or actual contact with the patient. However, the record indicates that Nowak was suffering from a mental breakdown from emotional distress because of a romantic relationship falling apart. This is not as far as I can tell a case of schizophrenia, or bipolar disorder, or another type of psychological disorder with a genetic contributor. It is a situational stress-induced reaction to her personal life. Her intentions are not known, we are all speculating based upon the evidence found and the fact of her actions.
Yes, her acts were criminal. Yes, she is facing criminal prosecution. Yes, she is no longer working for NASA.
The parallel to Pete Rose is very thin. In a vague sense, there is some similarity by virtue of each person doing something to tarnish their name and determining if that should effect the recognition for their career of accomplishments. No one is saying that was Pete Rose did is equivalent to chasing someone with a bag full of weapons and hitting them with pepper spray.
Tom said:
> Here’s a side note, showing the typical inconsistency of such awards. According to Wikipedia again, John C. Mather, the Nobel Laureate, wasn’t awarded NASA’s Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal.
Sorry, Tom, I don’t see the relevance. How as John C. Mather qualified for the NASA ESAM? What are the guidelines for the ESAM? Is there more to this story, a controvery of NASA considering him and then rejecting him? Or is this just a case of you think that because he won the Nobel Prize obviously he should be awarded the ESAM, and since he hasn’t, NASA sucks?
CinciDave said:
> As for Nowak, I suspect that space travel does strange things to the traveler, some positive and some not.
Nonsense. There’s no evidence that space travel has a negative effect on mental states. There’s no evidence that her space flight played any role in her subsequent breakdown. Her breakdown is driven by a clandestine romantic relationship falling apart just when she thought it was going to able to be made public. She was rejected by her lover. It happens every day to people, the only difference in this case was that it involved astronauts.
rapniv, Bill Clinton just goes to show that men must never be allowed to go to be President because they will end up doing things which endangers the reputation of all Presidents.
Don’t just judge me and label me as sexist. Think about it. Men are only good at chasing women and have no control of what they do and the consequences of their actions.
Do you see how stupid that sounds now?
June 4th, 2007 at 10:29 am
“1. The NASA Space Flight Medal is awarded to all astronauts for flying in space.”
All? Then what’s the point? Nowadays that’s like giving a medal to everyone who’s piloted one of those new-fangled aeroplanes. Serving aboard the shuttle & ISS is nothing which, per se, constitutes an “outstanding contribution to the Nation’s space program.” In my opinion there are only a few shuttle astronauts who have done anything that amounts to more than being a technician.
June 4th, 2007 at 11:31 am
Pete Rose did indeed commit a felony: tax evasion on his winnings. He spent five months in prison for it in 1990.
June 4th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Mark Martin, it’s called “tradition”.
Or think of it this way, Shuttle is still a tin can strapped to a large explosive that is detonating in a somewhat controlled manner. Hope it stays controlled. Reentry isn’t so easy, either. Ergo, it’s slightly more dangerous than a commercial commuter flight. Maybe when space travel is as common and safe as, say, an ocean cruise, then medals will be reconsidered. Till then, I have no complaints about the award.
June 4th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
NASA’s ability to hide certain facts is both amazing and amazingly
lame. Look at what is said in Nowak’s NASA bio about what has
happened to her since last February:
“Nowak returned to navy duty effective March 8, 2007.”
That is it. I did not need or want the sordid details, but this is
an affront to anyone who actually pays attention to the news.
And now the guy in all this has been booted out of NASA.
Of course he didn’t exactly show the height of interpersonal
awareness when he said that he thought Nowak was okay
after he broke up with her.
Hello. She dumped her husband of 19 years and 3 kids to be
with you, wrote to your mother how much she was in love with
you, and then you shack up with another woman. And you
thought she’d just brush this off. Didn’t teach you much about
women in Astronaut School, did they?
If anything perhaps this is more evidence that no HUMAN should
be conducting future space flights. Instead give the missions to
our increasingly sophisticated machines. Chances are they won’t
be getting the hots for that space probe with the nice thrusters.
And they tend to be a lot cheaper too. The robots, that is.
June 4th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
“Mark Martin, it’s called “traditionâ€.”
Yes, I know it’s tradition, and tradition is the sort of business which NASA needs desperately to get out of.
June 5th, 2007 at 3:45 am
I believe that Lisa Nowak has already received her Space Flight Medal back in August 2006 shortly after her mission. The ceremony at JSC is simply an acknowledgement of that fact. Here’s a picture of her with the award.
http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/jscfeatures/photos/121crewdebrief/jsc2006e35246.jpg
June 5th, 2007 at 3:49 am
Irishman-
Wasn’t particularly railing against NASA, just large organizations in general. Awards within large organizations can seem a bit…inconsistent from the outside because there are other factors in play other than just the accomplishment. I have no background information on John Mather’s story at NASA.
June 5th, 2007 at 3:53 am
Nice catch, jrkeller!
June 5th, 2007 at 6:09 am
This whole episode is really a shame.
This ladies resume is an American delight for her several decades of contribution. Aside from Annapolis, engineering, Navy Captain, and risking her life in space, she has substantial and esteemed decumented talents and contributions to our country.
It would be a pleasure to know her.
So as an American role model she is tarnished as a cartoon character. Far from it. I think this lady showed courage under a mental stress. That’s all.
June 5th, 2007 at 7:04 am
She risked her life in space? We ALL risk our lives in space. Any semi-truck driver is subjected on a daily basis to a very significant level of personal risk, yet there are no medals for truck drivers, despite that they do more to support our civilization than anything ever done by any shuttle astronaut. Take away the astronauts and we shed a brief tear for the end of an era. Take away the truck drivers and we shed blood as everyone fights over what food still remains on the store shelves.
June 5th, 2007 at 8:48 am
Mark, I think if trucks were suddenly totally recalled, our food and whatever else would still be delivered by the next available means. Frankly I would like to see less semi-trailers and B-doubles on the raod and more use made of rail.
By-the-way I have just looked up Nowak’s bio on the NASA site.
http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/nowak.html
I learned a couple of things. Pity it has come to this, where people are so vindictive. OK, she did not cover herself in glory with the cross-country dash, but at least she is entitled to some help for that, seeing no one was physically hurt, (so far as I know).
Ivan.
June 5th, 2007 at 9:16 am
Icemith,
I’m in no way being vindictive about Nowak. I’m making no claims as to her technical skills and personal accomplishments. I’m talking about giving people medals just because they rode the shuttle to orbit and back. I can place myself on orbit with Earth any time I wish. The big difference between me & shuttle astronauts is that their period of weightlessness last for days whereas mine last for a fraction of a second. But it’s all essentially the same.
As for trucks and drivers, regardless that some other form of transportation might be resorted to in their absence, the FACT remains that they do drive, they do place themselves at substantial risk, they do get killed, and for the most part anonymously. It’s the same with numerous occupations. Garbage collectors are the difference between a clean city and a vast sea of rotting refuse. There are no accolades offered for these essential services to our way of life. NO astronaut has ever done anything of that magnitude for civilization.
And I’m not criticizing the career of astronautics. I’m criticizing NASA for living in the past. The days are long over that just being briefly above Earth’s atmosphere is enough to constitute a contribution to the program. It’s NOT. NASA is giving out medals for doing only what hundreds have already done. Who’s the most recent person to summit Mt. Everest? Does it even matter? I’ve a friend who’s going to climb Everest in a few months. It’s no longer a big deal. And it’s no big deal to ride the shuttle. It is not a program of exploration.
The first few crews to return to the Moon will deserve medals. The first crews to Mars will deserve medals. The Nth person to ride the shuttle to low orbit? Nope.
June 5th, 2007 at 10:39 am
Mark,
I wasn’t accusing you of being vindictive, but a couple above and in other posts have been vindictive. I essentially agree with you, that there are many other ocupations where there is certain danger. Truck driving is one of them, especially when one has to share the road (I spelt it correctly this time). But as News bulletins have to have a story that catches the headlines, and the ratings, the Space Shuttle and the Space Station still command attention.
Coincidently, here in Australia, our News headlines with a particularly nasty level crossing crash involving a semi-trailer and a rural commuter train. There were ten killed and dozens injured after the whole side of at least one carriage was ripped open, giving those in the window seats little chance. The truck driver was seriously injured, so, yes they do have a hazzardous job, but at least are in a better protected vehicle than the train carriage, or for that matter, a family car sharing the highway with a quite large truck.
The Shuttle is a little more than a truck, delivering material, provisions and personnel to the ever growing Space Station, but it takes highly trained engineers to get that bus into orbit! And more than a few other specialists to ensure it does it safely. But in most gainful employment, there is some risk, some more than others, and the employee accepts that risk. Sometimes it is recognised in pay and/or accolades.
Ivan.
June 5th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Tom said:
> Wasn’t particularly railing against NASA, just large organizations in general. Awards within large organizations can seem a bit…inconsistent from the outside because there are other factors in play other than just the accomplishment. I have no background information on John Mather’s story at NASA.
So why did you use that as an example of your point?
Kelvin said:
> NASA’s ability to hide certain facts is both amazing and amazingly
lame. Look at what is said in Nowak’s NASA bio about what has
happened to her since last February:
>“Nowak returned to navy duty effective March 8, 2007.â€
>That is it. I did not need or want the sordid details, but this is
an affront to anyone who actually pays attention to the news.
So what would you have them say? “Nowak was kicked out of NASA after criminal charges were filed against her for stalking and assaulting the new lover of the man who dumped her.”? I don’t see how this is an affront at all. This is the conservative business approach to dealing with staffing issues. Highlight the positives, be as circumspect as possible on the negatives.
June 5th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Kind of foolish to hide a negative that has already received
world-wide attention, including the fact that part of her stalking
was captured on videotape at the airport.
NASA isn’t your typical business. It is supposed to answer
to the people it is supposed to be working for – us.
June 6th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Again, what do you expect them to say? “NASA fired Nowak after she was arrested for assault”? That’s not going to happen. It’s not NASA’s place to say that.
June 6th, 2007 at 11:17 am
I may throw my own NASA Exceptional Achievement medal into the ocean.
After all, I received it BEFORE I was fired for whistle-blowing, and falsely convicted of being a terrorist in order to destroy my credibility, so obviously I wasn’t kissing enough asses.
June 8th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
I just want to clarify that Nowak did not take “a little cross-country jaunt to, um, have a chat with a fellow astronaut.” It should be noted that Colleen Shipman was NOT an astronaut. I’ve seen this error repeated a few other places.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:34 am
If I remember correctly, Dian Hardison pled guilty to her crime, sending ‘hoax-anthrax’ to the Cocoa Water Co… and this was well after she was fired from NASA. Lots of engineers complained about bad management but only one thought the remedy included to scaring hapless water company mailroom workers in the wake of 9/11, but at least she wasn’t wearing a diaper at the time.
The ocean has enough worthless trash, I think.