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	<title>Comments on: SpaceX flight review, and my own near-sightedness</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Astrolink [Global Edition] &#187; SpaceX and NASA from, well, space &#124; Latest astronomy news in 11 languages</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/comment-page-1/#comment-38673</link>
		<dc:creator>Astrolink [Global Edition] &#187; SpaceX and NASA from, well, space &#124; Latest astronomy news in 11 languages</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2007 15:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/#comment-38673</guid>
		<description>[...] readers know I have a mole inside the SpaceX company who sends me information. Irritatingly, (s)he only sends me stuff [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] readers know I have a mole inside the SpaceX company who sends me information. Irritatingly, (s)he only sends me stuff [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Harwood</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/comment-page-1/#comment-38652</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Harwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 04:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/#comment-38652</guid>
		<description>I would like to see something like the DC-X revived. My understanding is that the effort itself was very successful, but that NASA wouldn&#039;t touch it because it didn&#039;t employ anywhere near enough people either in development or operations, and the USAF wouldn&#039;t touch it because it didn&#039;t have wings. Have matters gone beyond that yet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to see something like the DC-X revived. My understanding is that the effort itself was very successful, but that NASA wouldn&#8217;t touch it because it didn&#8217;t employ anywhere near enough people either in development or operations, and the USAF wouldn&#8217;t touch it because it didn&#8217;t have wings. Have matters gone beyond that yet?</p>
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		<title>By: jrkeller</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/comment-page-1/#comment-38672</link>
		<dc:creator>jrkeller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 03:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/#comment-38672</guid>
		<description>FYI,

The launch window for the shuttle (to the ISS) is approximately 10 minutes long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI,</p>
<p>The launch window for the shuttle (to the ISS) is approximately 10 minutes long.</p>
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		<title>By: The Bad Astronomer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/comment-page-1/#comment-38671</link>
		<dc:creator>The Bad Astronomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/#comment-38671</guid>
		<description>I can see how what I wrote might sound insulting to NASA engineers -- but I tried to make it clear by using the phrase &quot;bureaucratic nonsense&quot;. I didn&#039;t mean it that way; I certainly meant nothing about the engineers themselves! Just the paperwork, the endless meetings, the news traveling up and down the chain of command...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see how what I wrote might sound insulting to NASA engineers &#8212; but I tried to make it clear by using the phrase &#8220;bureaucratic nonsense&#8221;. I didn&#8217;t mean it that way; I certainly meant nothing about the engineers themselves! Just the paperwork, the endless meetings, the news traveling up and down the chain of command&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: slang</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/comment-page-1/#comment-38670</link>
		<dc:creator>slang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/#comment-38670</guid>
		<description>Well, BA, on that generalized statement I think we can all agree. Small companies generally can react quicker to changing environment than huge government agencies, although I still doubt that it applies to transient moments like launch countdowns.

It&#039;s a good point, and one worth repeating. But to present it on flawed arguments doesn&#039;t help the &#039;cause&#039;, if I&#039;m allowed a little hyperbole :) But I&#039;ve already spoken on those, no need to repeat. (My main objection to how you phrased your objections was that it seemed to me pretty insulting to the teams of NASA/contractors engineers that routinely do what you seemed to suggest them being incapable of.)

My thoughts on commercializing spaceflights are that it will give us cheaper, general issue type, flexible, launch capability. Companies can focus on their business plan, and execute it, without too much outside interference. They can react quicker to technology improvements, and competition will drive that.

With respect to more transient issues I fear that they might be *less* able to quickly respond, simply by being unable to retain a lot of &quot;just in case&quot; engineers. (Employees being the most costly asset of any company, I think an old Jewish curse is: I wish you many employees..) I can&#039;t think of a better way to describe what I mean here... Being on commercial competitive budgets will require cuts with respect to how NASA operates. I fear that there won&#039;t be much money for &quot;might be useful&quot; personnel.

Moving the task of &quot;mundane&quot; launching (opposed to cutting edge, commercially uninteresting launching) away from NASA may help to focus it more on science. It may be easier to get funding for cutting edge science when the launch part of the budget gets cheaper.

As others have mentioned, there will still be a need for entities like NASA, just to make sure that science will still be done, to invest in things that might only get returns generations later, to do things that are too risky for companies whose principle guidance will always be: survival of the business, and making money.

I think we will see evolving SpaceShipOne-type craft developing orbital capabilities. Once the momentum gets going, mass production will lower prices. If the momentum *really* gets going, then deaths will be accepted as a risk of the trade. Not in the sense that businesses won&#039;t try to prevent accidents (of course they won&#039;t, it would be bad PR), but in the sense that a fatal accident won&#039;t stop the industry from progressing. Like deaths in cars and airplanes don&#039;t stop those particular industries (but do lead to more safety, generally).

Still, the real break we need first is a dramatic improvement in the dollars/weight ratio for launching into orbit. My personal thoughts on that (not that I&#039;m even remotely qualified to say anything sane about it :)) are that it might require a new discovery in physics. Who knows, maybe research into dark energy (which seems to oppose or counteract gravity) might give us Star Trek.

I think I&#039;ve stuck my neck out far enough on this one, have at it! :) Thanks for responding, Phil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, BA, on that generalized statement I think we can all agree. Small companies generally can react quicker to changing environment than huge government agencies, although I still doubt that it applies to transient moments like launch countdowns.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a good point, and one worth repeating. But to present it on flawed arguments doesn&#8217;t help the &#8217;cause&#8217;, if I&#8217;m allowed a little hyperbole <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  But I&#8217;ve already spoken on those, no need to repeat. (My main objection to how you phrased your objections was that it seemed to me pretty insulting to the teams of NASA/contractors engineers that routinely do what you seemed to suggest them being incapable of.)</p>
<p>My thoughts on commercializing spaceflights are that it will give us cheaper, general issue type, flexible, launch capability. Companies can focus on their business plan, and execute it, without too much outside interference. They can react quicker to technology improvements, and competition will drive that.</p>
<p>With respect to more transient issues I fear that they might be *less* able to quickly respond, simply by being unable to retain a lot of &#8220;just in case&#8221; engineers. (Employees being the most costly asset of any company, I think an old Jewish curse is: I wish you many employees..) I can&#8217;t think of a better way to describe what I mean here&#8230; Being on commercial competitive budgets will require cuts with respect to how NASA operates. I fear that there won&#8217;t be much money for &#8220;might be useful&#8221; personnel.</p>
<p>Moving the task of &#8220;mundane&#8221; launching (opposed to cutting edge, commercially uninteresting launching) away from NASA may help to focus it more on science. It may be easier to get funding for cutting edge science when the launch part of the budget gets cheaper.</p>
<p>As others have mentioned, there will still be a need for entities like NASA, just to make sure that science will still be done, to invest in things that might only get returns generations later, to do things that are too risky for companies whose principle guidance will always be: survival of the business, and making money.</p>
<p>I think we will see evolving SpaceShipOne-type craft developing orbital capabilities. Once the momentum gets going, mass production will lower prices. If the momentum *really* gets going, then deaths will be accepted as a risk of the trade. Not in the sense that businesses won&#8217;t try to prevent accidents (of course they won&#8217;t, it would be bad PR), but in the sense that a fatal accident won&#8217;t stop the industry from progressing. Like deaths in cars and airplanes don&#8217;t stop those particular industries (but do lead to more safety, generally).</p>
<p>Still, the real break we need first is a dramatic improvement in the dollars/weight ratio for launching into orbit. My personal thoughts on that (not that I&#8217;m even remotely qualified to say anything sane about it <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) are that it might require a new discovery in physics. Who knows, maybe research into dark energy (which seems to oppose or counteract gravity) might give us Star Trek.</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;ve stuck my neck out far enough on this one, have at it! <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Thanks for responding, Phil.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/comment-page-1/#comment-38669</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 19:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/#comment-38669</guid>
		<description>Quiet Desperation - Interesting question on first commercial crash.  Probably hard to determine since the first paying commercial customers likely just flew along in a mail plane.  Of course, the media coverage of such an event in the past wouldn&#039;t have been as &#039;in your face&#039;.  The British Comet aircraft, the first commercially-available jet transport, had some very public crashes before they realized that metal fatigue was bringing the planes down, and the industry moved on, though the producer of the Comet lost market share to Boeing.

Rob-  SpaceX is not interested in funding science directly, though Elon has mentioned some pie in the sky ideas of settling Mars.  Plenty of science could get done on the way.

Evolving Squid - There&#039;s only one investor in SpaceX right now...Elon.  We&#039;ll see how things go on their COTS (Commercial Orbital Transportation Services) contracts with NASA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quiet Desperation &#8211; Interesting question on first commercial crash.  Probably hard to determine since the first paying commercial customers likely just flew along in a mail plane.  Of course, the media coverage of such an event in the past wouldn&#8217;t have been as &#8216;in your face&#8217;.  The British Comet aircraft, the first commercially-available jet transport, had some very public crashes before they realized that metal fatigue was bringing the planes down, and the industry moved on, though the producer of the Comet lost market share to Boeing.</p>
<p>Rob-  SpaceX is not interested in funding science directly, though Elon has mentioned some pie in the sky ideas of settling Mars.  Plenty of science could get done on the way.</p>
<p>Evolving Squid &#8211; There&#8217;s only one investor in SpaceX right now&#8230;Elon.  We&#8217;ll see how things go on their COTS (Commercial Orbital Transportation Services) contracts with NASA.</p>
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		<title>By: Evolving Squid</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/comment-page-1/#comment-38651</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolving Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/06/17/spacex-flight-review-and-my-own-near-sightedness/#comment-38651</guid>
		<description>As I see it much of the problem is one of persepctive.  NASA is, or is perceived by many people to be, a government agency funded by tax dollars.  So when they have a problem, the public perception is one of tax money being wasted, and NASA has to answer to the whole country.

SpaceX only has to answer to investors, and it&#039;s probably considered a fair answer to say &quot;well, that didn&#039;t work but we learned soemthing, so let&#039;s have another go and not repeat the same mistake.&quot;

If NASA says that, there are calls for heads on sticks, mass floggings, etc.

That tends to make NASA a bit more cautious... Not that I&#039;m saying SpaceX is cavalier - far from it, but their perspective as a private enterprise is simply different, and teh difference makes them more flexible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I see it much of the problem is one of persepctive.  NASA is, or is perceived by many people to be, a government agency funded by tax dollars.  So when they have a problem, the public perception is one of tax money being wasted, and NASA has to answer to the whole country.</p>
<p>SpaceX only has to answer to investors, and it&#8217;s probably considered a fair answer to say &#8220;well, that didn&#8217;t work but we learned soemthing, so let&#8217;s have another go and not repeat the same mistake.&#8221;</p>
<p>If NASA says that, there are calls for heads on sticks, mass floggings, etc.</p>
<p>That tends to make NASA a bit more cautious&#8230; Not that I&#8217;m saying SpaceX is cavalier &#8211; far from it, but their perspective as a private enterprise is simply different, and teh difference makes them more flexible.</p>
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