He claims to have written them in the 70′s, in response to the whole Viet Nam issue.

I hope all of you had a good celebration on 4th of July. Congratulations to your 231st anniversary.
Sometimes it is realy good to go back and see what is written there. My favourite since I read it first in 10th grade 25 years back still is:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

Really wise guys, weren’t they? Especially because it says “men” including more than only the inhabitants of a special country.

Just for comparison…
The Declaration is 18289 characters = bytes of text (including blanks).
The “Stop Sylvia Browne” graphic on the side bar is 10554 Bytes.

It wasn’t really that we hated England; it’s just that we grew apart over the years, and when you decided to move back in we found we really didn’t get along–and certainly didn’t get along as housemates.

Anyone interested in an excellent documentary about the American Revolution should check out PBS’s Rebels & Redcoats (http://www.pbs.org/previews/rebels_redcoats/).

According to wikipedia, the painting isn’t of The Signing either. (Unless you mean some other painting, which is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence#Myths

Maybe I’ve just missed reading the blog about it, but shouldn’t there be more outrage regarding the fusing of Church and State? i.e we don’t hear much “by bringing religion into the classrooms our leaders are rejecting the wisdom of our Founding Fathers. Are we sure that’s a good idea?!”

I”ve always been perplexed about the “unquestioning loyalty” Americans apparently have for their President. It would seem to me that the Founding Fathers would disapprove of the concept that voicing a different opinion from the President means “you’re against us.”

You’re absolutely right, Al_manac. Americans should be completely up in arms about such things, but the thing is, most people here don’t understand politics or government. Most don’t really care about separation of church and state, and a growing number actually thinks it’s a bad thing.

We also should be upset that so much of what’s going on would be abhorrent to our Founding Fathers. Unfortunately, we treat them the way most peoples treat their heroes: at the same time we idolize them and make them bigger than life, we also assign them actions and beliefs we would want them to have, rather than looking to see how they actually were.

We have some strong civil rights groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. Would you believe an awful lot of people here who oppose their actions, and actually accuse them of being everything from communist, to fascist, to un-American (whatever that means).

Ruth, I don’t understand your problem. I thought this was a brilliant way to remember the point of the Declaration and the celebration of Independence Day. I thought it was a great post, and enjoyed it very much. I thought it was excellent that Phil didn’t editorialize, or make pointed remarks about current political situations, or make trite comments about the Founding Fathers, the signers, and their troubles, etc. I thought it wonderful that Phil chose to let the words of the men themselves stand on its own. I enjoyed the opportunity to read through the document anew, and reflect upon what it was saying, and what it means to us as a country. That you think of it as copy/paste of some boring old history shows that you missed the point entirely. One wonders if you think the Constitution is just some old waste of paper sitting in an archive.

And if you truly think this post was a waste of bandwidth, why the heck are you wasting more bandwidth complaining about it? Twice?

Regarding the fates of the signers, I think it is important to note the historical truth of what they faced and why. They were largely not targeted by the British for signing the document, though they could have been. They did face hardships, losses, destruction, and death, but mostly the same conditions faced by anyone else caught up in the Revolution. And acts of resistance had been occurring, and talk of revolution had been ongoing for some time. But I think it is fair to note they did make a bold statement with this declaration, they did put themselves on the line, and they did face dire consequences for the action taken that day. The signing was a symbol for the commitment to the path they were choosing to take and the acceptance of the hardships to come. In that sense, it is fair to contemplate the results of those actions.

As for music choices, I’m always amused when patriotic groups bring out Springstein’s Born In The USA. It’s like nobody listens to lyrics but the refrain.

If only our present politicians had half the honor these men had.

Remind me again, when did George Lucas write these lines? How perceptive of him,,,

U.S. Declaration of Independence, one of the top ten documents ever written,,,

Thanks for reminding us, Phil.

Gary 7

My favorite line: “He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.”

I wish our Congress would more frequently oppose president George with manly firmness.

Maybe I’ve just missed reading the blog about it, but shouldn’t there be more outrage regarding the fusing of Church and State? i.e we don’t hear much “by bringing religion into the classrooms our leaders are rejecting the wisdom of our Founding Fathers. Are we sure that’s a good idea?!”

I”ve always been perplexed about the “unquestioning loyalty” Americans apparently have for their President. It would seem to me that the Founding Fathers would disapprove of the concept that voicing a different opinion from the President means “you’re against us.”

And as for you Brits… you have an “independence day”, right? At some point, you no longer took orders from the Crown. And that was a good day. Maybe you celebrate it, maybe you don’t.

I think we all need to reflect more about the substance of Independence, rather than the focus on “it’s a day to party”. It’s all too easy to take pot shots and claim the high road – a real ally stays with you “for better and for worse”.

And yet you came to this waste of bandwidth at least twice to post comments about it…

Having lived overseas, observed the living and legal conditions in many other countries, and seen what TRULY oppressive governments can do to kill the spirit of their people, in my opinion – and in spite of its warts – the US is still the best political experiment going.

I’ve always believed that even the worst president is better than the best monarch.

Not MUCH better, in the case of our current offering, but still better.

Here’s looking forward to 2008.

although i would say to everyone who is all gung-ho to paint president george as being as bad or worse than king george, do not forget that as bad as bush might be, he is an elected official with a limited term in office. less than two years from now, we will have a different president – perhaps a better one, perhaps a worse one, but a different one. this was not an option for the colonists. george did not have a limited term as king, and even if he did, the colonists would not have had a vote (they did not have parliamentary representation either).

not to mention the lack of a bill of rights under king george.

mind you, i’m not trying to suggest that bush isn’t doing some of the things that we listed in the declaration as grievances against the king (as have many presidents before him), or that he is in any way a good president. but it’s far too easy to try to compare current struggles with those of the past.

anyway, i do think it is incredible, and instructive, to remember that the movers and shakers of the american revolution, including the signers of the declaration of independence, were men with wide ranging beliefs (for instance, you had an avowed atheist in thomas paine, a deist who edited his own version of the bible in thomas jefferson, and a devout christian in john adams), who came together to support the cause of freedom.

well, that, and not having to pay so much in taxes.

Is it right to reproduce it in full without written permission from the owners of the copyright?

Just a thought given the strict copyright rules we have to obey on the forum.