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	<title>Comments on: Is it hot in here, or is it just me?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Doodler</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45488</link>
		<dc:creator>Doodler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45488</guid>
		<description>*really wishes he could edit blog posts*

Also consider the industrial boom of the 1920s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*really wishes he could edit blog posts*</p>
<p>Also consider the industrial boom of the 1920s.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Doodler</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45487</link>
		<dc:creator>Doodler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45487</guid>
		<description>For those wondering, I mean Roosevelt&#039;s New Deal and the Lend Lease Act build up that prepared the US for its eventual entry into World War II, along with Germany&#039;s massive rearmament and industrial renewal efforts in the mid 1930s prior to the invasion of Poland.

Why levels fell off afterward?

One: Mobilizing troops drew down some of the initial industrial surge

Two: A great deal of the European Industrial infrastructure was shattered.

Three: I imagine the sheer amount of explosive firepower constantly unleashed over the course of almost ten years of constant warfare probably lofted a significant amount of particulate matter into the air that may have acted like a volcanic eruption&#039;s contribution to lacking air quality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those wondering, I mean Roosevelt&#8217;s New Deal and the Lend Lease Act build up that prepared the US for its eventual entry into World War II, along with Germany&#8217;s massive rearmament and industrial renewal efforts in the mid 1930s prior to the invasion of Poland.</p>
<p>Why levels fell off afterward?</p>
<p>One: Mobilizing troops drew down some of the initial industrial surge</p>
<p>Two: A great deal of the European Industrial infrastructure was shattered.</p>
<p>Three: I imagine the sheer amount of explosive firepower constantly unleashed over the course of almost ten years of constant warfare probably lofted a significant amount of particulate matter into the air that may have acted like a volcanic eruption&#8217;s contribution to lacking air quality.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Doodler</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45486</link>
		<dc:creator>Doodler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45486</guid>
		<description>Interesting.   Any coincidence that the 1930s would also fall into alignment with one of the most massive military/industrial build ups in the history of the Industrial Age?

You think industry now isn&#039;t green, consider what we were doing back then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.   Any coincidence that the 1930s would also fall into alignment with one of the most massive military/industrial build ups in the history of the Industrial Age?</p>
<p>You think industry now isn&#8217;t green, consider what we were doing back then.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkR</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45485</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45485</guid>
		<description>If CO2 increase is the overwhelming main driver for temperature increase, how come Global Temperatures went down after the 1930&#039;s?

Answer CO2 doesn&#039;t have any effect on temperature, and never has done.

&gt;

Q.E.D.

http://mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image277.gif</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If CO2 increase is the overwhelming main driver for temperature increase, how come Global Temperatures went down after the 1930&#8242;s?</p>
<p>Answer CO2 doesn&#8217;t have any effect on temperature, and never has done.</p>
<p>&gt;</p>
<p>Q.E.D.</p>
<p><a href="http://mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image277.gif" rel="nofollow">http://mysite.verizon.net/mhieb/WVFossils/PageMill_Images/image277.gif</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sam Urbinto</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45484</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Urbinto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45484</guid>
		<description>Chip, you mentioned something interesting, the effects of particulates in the air from pollution.

Now, the question is, if CO2 is causing the warmng and the particulates are partially masking the warming, could we also say the particulates are causing cooling and the CO2 is masking the cooling?

Can we really remove one component from an interlocked system?  Or to me an even more important question, can we really define global temperature as a single, quantifyable thing in the first place?

Regardless, it&#039;s clear we create pollution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chip, you mentioned something interesting, the effects of particulates in the air from pollution.</p>
<p>Now, the question is, if CO2 is causing the warmng and the particulates are partially masking the warming, could we also say the particulates are causing cooling and the CO2 is masking the cooling?</p>
<p>Can we really remove one component from an interlocked system?  Or to me an even more important question, can we really define global temperature as a single, quantifyable thing in the first place?</p>
<p>Regardless, it&#8217;s clear we create pollution.</p>
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		<title>By: It&#8217;s the End of the World as We Know It &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Confused About Global Warming?</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45483</link>
		<dc:creator>It&#8217;s the End of the World as We Know It &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Confused About Global Warming?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 14:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45483</guid>
		<description>[...] Bad Astronomy Blog Â» Is it hot in here, or is it just me?  Tags: bad astronomy, climate change, debunk, deviation, global warming, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bad Astronomy Blog Â» Is it hot in here, or is it just me?  Tags: bad astronomy, climate change, debunk, deviation, global warming, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Global Warming Denialism at Its Best [The Scientific Activist] &#183; New York Articles</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45482</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Warming Denialism at Its Best [The Scientific Activist] &#183; New York Articles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45482</guid>
		<description>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Encephalon #30</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45481</link>
		<dc:creator>Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Encephalon #30</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 02:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45481</guid>
		<description>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; It&#8217;s Time to Get Off the Bottle!</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45480</link>
		<dc:creator>Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; It&#8217;s Time to Get Off the Bottle!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45480</guid>
		<description>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Two Quick Notes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45479</link>
		<dc:creator>Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Two Quick Notes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 06:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45479</guid>
		<description>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; When it rains, it pours</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45478</link>
		<dc:creator>Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; When it rains, it pours</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Aug 2007 09:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45478</guid>
		<description>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Vance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45477</link>
		<dc:creator>John Vance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45477</guid>
		<description>Hey Lupos, you string theorist hack who thinks that the sun could warm up Pluto significantly without blowtorching the Earth:  I have two words for you regarding that lump of high US temperatures in the 30s.  &quot;Dust bowl&quot;.  Look it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Lupos, you string theorist hack who thinks that the sun could warm up Pluto significantly without blowtorching the Earth:  I have two words for you regarding that lump of high US temperatures in the 30s.  &#8220;Dust bowl&#8221;.  Look it up.</p>
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		<title>By: Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; So many sciencebloggers, so little time</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45476</link>
		<dc:creator>Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; So many sciencebloggers, so little time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45476</guid>
		<description>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Political Blogging Seminar in Oxford</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45475</link>
		<dc:creator>Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Political Blogging Seminar in Oxford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45475</guid>
		<description>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chad</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45474</link>
		<dc:creator>Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 01:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45474</guid>
		<description>Carl Smith:

&quot;SUBROUTINE SURFCE 1,30
!@sum SURFCE calculates the surface fluxes which include
!@+ sensible heat, evaporation, thermal radiation, and momentum
!@+ drag. It also calculates instantaneous surface temperature,
!@+ surface specific humidity, and surface wind components.
!@auth Nobody will claim responsibilty

The last line is very telling!&quot;

I think you may be misinterpreting this line under author. My first thought was that it says &quot;Nobody will claim responsibilty&quot; because multiple people wrote it. But then I thought why would they not just list all the authors. I think my first suspicion may have some merit. Look at some of the other subroutines.

For example:

      SUBROUTINE sys_flush (unit) 5
!@sum system call to flush corresponding I/O unit
!@auth I. Aleinov

      subroutine snow_fraction( 2
     &amp;     dz, nl, prsnow, dt, fract_cover, fract_cover_new)
!@sum computes new snow fraction and returns it in fract_cover_new
!@auth I.Aleinov


      SUBROUTINE YSTEP (M,NSTEPY) 1,5
!@sum YSTEP determines the number of Y timesteps for tracer dynamics
!@+    using Courant limits
!@auth J. Lerner and M. Kelley


      FUNCTION QSAT (TM,LH,PR) 45,1
!@sum  QSAT calculates saturation vapour mixing ratio
!@auth Gary Russell

and so on. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s as suspect as you suggest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl Smith:</p>
<p>&#8220;SUBROUTINE SURFCE 1,30<br />
!@sum SURFCE calculates the surface fluxes which include<br />
!@+ sensible heat, evaporation, thermal radiation, and momentum<br />
!@+ drag. It also calculates instantaneous surface temperature,<br />
!@+ surface specific humidity, and surface wind components.<br />
!@auth Nobody will claim responsibilty</p>
<p>The last line is very telling!&#8221;</p>
<p>I think you may be misinterpreting this line under author. My first thought was that it says &#8220;Nobody will claim responsibilty&#8221; because multiple people wrote it. But then I thought why would they not just list all the authors. I think my first suspicion may have some merit. Look at some of the other subroutines.</p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>      SUBROUTINE sys_flush (unit) 5<br />
!@sum system call to flush corresponding I/O unit<br />
!@auth I. Aleinov</p>
<p>      subroutine snow_fraction( 2<br />
     &amp;     dz, nl, prsnow, dt, fract_cover, fract_cover_new)<br />
!@sum computes new snow fraction and returns it in fract_cover_new<br />
!@auth I.Aleinov</p>
<p>      SUBROUTINE YSTEP (M,NSTEPY) 1,5<br />
!@sum YSTEP determines the number of Y timesteps for tracer dynamics<br />
!@+    using Courant limits<br />
!@auth J. Lerner and M. Kelley</p>
<p>      FUNCTION QSAT (TM,LH,PR) 45,1<br />
!@sum  QSAT calculates saturation vapour mixing ratio<br />
!@auth Gary Russell</p>
<p>and so on. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s as suspect as you suggest.</p>
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		<title>By: Global Warming Denialism at Its Best [The Scientific Activist] &#183; Articles</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45473</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Warming Denialism at Its Best [The Scientific Activist] &#183; Articles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Aug 2007 05:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45473</guid>
		<description>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lurchgs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45472</link>
		<dc:creator>Lurchgs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45472</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s all the fault of that butterfly in the Amazon Jungle back in 1903.. After paying to visit a flower, all he managed was to pass gas.  That tiny puff was at just the right place and time to send the climate of earh into a death spiral.

What&#039;s worse, the butterfly knew what it had done, and died shortly thereafter, of a broken heart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s all the fault of that butterfly in the Amazon Jungle back in 1903.. After paying to visit a flower, all he managed was to pass gas.  That tiny puff was at just the right place and time to send the climate of earh into a death spiral.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s worse, the butterfly knew what it had done, and died shortly thereafter, of a broken heart.</p>
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		<title>By: Pipian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45471</link>
		<dc:creator>Pipian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45471</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll be the first to admit that it has only 1.5 (or so) periods on it, but my point was less that it most certainly IS a pattern, but more that the rather strongly regular sinusoidal shape over the 1.5 periods suggests that there could, in fact, be a cyclical pattern.  I also know, however, that there&#039;s hardly enough direct evidence of global temperatures dating back far enough to make a proper guess as to whether it&#039;s a statistical anomaly or an actual pattern (so in that sense, extrapolating that the variations are actually regular is bad science, though there&#039;s certainly enough data to easily imply an 11-year cycle).

What is interesting, though, is that the cyclical patterns do vaguely match the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (http://www.iphc.washington.edu/staff/hare/html/decadal/post1977/pdo1.html) (though I certainly haven&#039;t any values of correlation between the two, or even for the solar oscillations, other than anecdotal.  I haven&#039;t run any R^2 calculations or anything, so I&#039;m more spouting off seeming correlated variables rather than implying any sort of actual scientific backing of my assertions.  After all, for all we know, the temperatures anomalies recorded could, in fact, be the cause of the PDO, rather than an effect of it (if there is, in fact, a cause-effect relationship).  Heck, it could be the case that they&#039;re only correlated because of a third external variable, if at all!

Really, all we can say with any certainty is that all of these climactic variables are almost certainly not independent of each other, but the ultimate causation of changes in the variables are most likely a combination of chaotic processes (e.g. loose, potentially time-delayed, coupling between the variables) and external forces (e.g. solar output, anthropogenic greenhouse gases).

That and recent years ARE warmer on average than years in the 1960s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll be the first to admit that it has only 1.5 (or so) periods on it, but my point was less that it most certainly IS a pattern, but more that the rather strongly regular sinusoidal shape over the 1.5 periods suggests that there could, in fact, be a cyclical pattern.  I also know, however, that there&#8217;s hardly enough direct evidence of global temperatures dating back far enough to make a proper guess as to whether it&#8217;s a statistical anomaly or an actual pattern (so in that sense, extrapolating that the variations are actually regular is bad science, though there&#8217;s certainly enough data to easily imply an 11-year cycle).</p>
<p>What is interesting, though, is that the cyclical patterns do vaguely match the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (<a href="http://www.iphc.washington.edu/staff/hare/html/decadal/post1977/pdo1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.iphc.washington.edu/staff/hare/html/decadal/post1977/pdo1.html</a>) (though I certainly haven&#8217;t any values of correlation between the two, or even for the solar oscillations, other than anecdotal.  I haven&#8217;t run any R^2 calculations or anything, so I&#8217;m more spouting off seeming correlated variables rather than implying any sort of actual scientific backing of my assertions.  After all, for all we know, the temperatures anomalies recorded could, in fact, be the cause of the PDO, rather than an effect of it (if there is, in fact, a cause-effect relationship).  Heck, it could be the case that they&#8217;re only correlated because of a third external variable, if at all!</p>
<p>Really, all we can say with any certainty is that all of these climactic variables are almost certainly not independent of each other, but the ultimate causation of changes in the variables are most likely a combination of chaotic processes (e.g. loose, potentially time-delayed, coupling between the variables) and external forces (e.g. solar output, anthropogenic greenhouse gases).</p>
<p>That and recent years ARE warmer on average than years in the 1960s.</p>
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		<title>By: Crissa</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45470</link>
		<dc:creator>Crissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45470</guid>
		<description>NASA said the tolerance was 0.1 degrees; and the US numbers didn&#039;t change the global numbers.

*sigh*

How do you tell someone that a change of 0.03 isn&#039;t significant if the error margin is 0.1?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NASA said the tolerance was 0.1 degrees; and the US numbers didn&#8217;t change the global numbers.</p>
<p>*sigh*</p>
<p>How do you tell someone that a change of 0.03 isn&#8217;t significant if the error margin is 0.1?</p>
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		<title>By: Brant D</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45469</link>
		<dc:creator>Brant D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45469</guid>
		<description>Pipian: You say the &quot;solar cycle independent&quot; data appears to have a sinusoidal pattern of about a 50yr period. How many complete periods do you have in the data? I ask because people have been trying to find cyclical patterns in temperature records since the 1980s, but to my knowledge no one has found a pattern with more than two alleged periods in the data records. It&#039;s a pretty big stretch to conclude a cyclical temperature variation from only a couple of cycle periods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pipian: You say the &#8220;solar cycle independent&#8221; data appears to have a sinusoidal pattern of about a 50yr period. How many complete periods do you have in the data? I ask because people have been trying to find cyclical patterns in temperature records since the 1980s, but to my knowledge no one has found a pattern with more than two alleged periods in the data records. It&#8217;s a pretty big stretch to conclude a cyclical temperature variation from only a couple of cycle periods.</p>
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		<title>By: Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; ELF, the George Bush of the Environmental movement</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45468</link>
		<dc:creator>Science Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; ELF, the George Bush of the Environmental movement</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45468</guid>
		<description>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] see this truly put into perspective, though, check out RealClimate or Bad Astronomy. Also, Deltoid and The Island of Doubt go into more detail about the freewheeling response of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-3/#comment-45467</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 04:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45467</guid>
		<description>It looks like only 3 of the last 20 years have been below average while 17 years have been above average.  That&#039;s interesting to say the least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like only 3 of the last 20 years have been below average while 17 years have been above average.  That&#8217;s interesting to say the least.</p>
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		<title>By: Lurchgs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-2/#comment-45466</link>
		<dc:creator>Lurchgs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45466</guid>
		<description>Dr. Plait,

I&#039;m afraid I have to disagree on this one - or, at least an aspect.   Sure, it makes sense for a researcher/scientist/etc to hang on to his methods, and perhaps his data, for a while, so he&#039;s not scooped and loses his chance at the Nobel.  *However*, if said individual makes a public proclamation concerning his *findings*, the door is open.  If he&#039;s not done and ready to provide full access, he should keep his mouth shut.

If somebody else in the organization &quot;leaked&quot; the information, his only public comment should be &quot;we are still looking and have no comment on the potential outcomes&quot; (then he should either fire the leak or shoot him, your choice).  By addressing the data and the results, again, he opens the door to verification by outside scientists.

If (say) Don McLeroy came out and said &quot;I have here a model that shows the earth IS only 6000 years old, using accepted scientific method (etc), but I&#039;m still working on it, so you can&#039;t see it yet.&quot;, I dare say you&#039;d be howling.

Sorry, what&#039;s good for the goose is good for the gander.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Plait,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m afraid I have to disagree on this one &#8211; or, at least an aspect.   Sure, it makes sense for a researcher/scientist/etc to hang on to his methods, and perhaps his data, for a while, so he&#8217;s not scooped and loses his chance at the Nobel.  *However*, if said individual makes a public proclamation concerning his *findings*, the door is open.  If he&#8217;s not done and ready to provide full access, he should keep his mouth shut.</p>
<p>If somebody else in the organization &#8220;leaked&#8221; the information, his only public comment should be &#8220;we are still looking and have no comment on the potential outcomes&#8221; (then he should either fire the leak or shoot him, your choice).  By addressing the data and the results, again, he opens the door to verification by outside scientists.</p>
<p>If (say) Don McLeroy came out and said &#8220;I have here a model that shows the earth IS only 6000 years old, using accepted scientific method (etc), but I&#8217;m still working on it, so you can&#8217;t see it yet.&#8221;, I dare say you&#8217;d be howling.</p>
<p>Sorry, what&#8217;s good for the goose is good for the gander.</p>
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		<title>By: Pipian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-2/#comment-45465</link>
		<dc:creator>Pipian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45465</guid>
		<description>If one plots the 5-year averages of the data not as individual points in a scatter plot, but as a line graph, there actually is a noticeable 11-year cycle (most likely correlating to the 11-year sunspot cycle).  If you average out on an 11-year period to eliminate these patterns, and one can note a distinctly sinusoidal pattern to average temperature (that actually averages about a +0.125 anomaly).  There is a slight upwards trend that can be noted (the lows in the 11-year average between 1885-1910 are slightly lower than those from 1965-1980 (-0.17 to -0.12) and the highs between 1930-1943 notably peak lower than the latest average for 2001 (+0.5 to +0.6), which suggests only a slight +0.1 degree warming, if the sinusoidal pattern is, in fact, natural and cyclical (with a 50-55 year cycle).

So while the average clearly indicates that a pattern of increased warming has occurred in the 25 years since 1975, it is only a bit greater than the rate of warming in the 25 year period from 1910-1935 (+0.7 to +0.66 or so).

It&#039;s also important to note that the American data is an anomaly from the 1951-1980 average, compared to the 1961-1990 average used for HadCRUT3.

What interests me is the fact that this US graph doesn&#039;t really correlate with the HadCRUT3 data that most global warming advocates tout for global temperatures.  The US graph seems to have a straight sinusoidal pattern with a nearly flat average slope, while the HadCRUT3 data has a vaguely sinusoidal pattern with the same peaks and troughs, but with a decidedly different strongly positive movement of +0.7 degrees over the entire period.

Personally though, I&#039;d like to see both graphs as contrasted to solar activity measurements (5 and 11-year averages) and I&#039;m curious to see from what locales the strongly positive incline came from in the global (as opposed to American) data (e.g. did it come from ocean, rather than land temperatures?  Inland Asia compared to Europe or India?  What about the density of stations?  I assume that&#039;s accounted for but...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one plots the 5-year averages of the data not as individual points in a scatter plot, but as a line graph, there actually is a noticeable 11-year cycle (most likely correlating to the 11-year sunspot cycle).  If you average out on an 11-year period to eliminate these patterns, and one can note a distinctly sinusoidal pattern to average temperature (that actually averages about a +0.125 anomaly).  There is a slight upwards trend that can be noted (the lows in the 11-year average between 1885-1910 are slightly lower than those from 1965-1980 (-0.17 to -0.12) and the highs between 1930-1943 notably peak lower than the latest average for 2001 (+0.5 to +0.6), which suggests only a slight +0.1 degree warming, if the sinusoidal pattern is, in fact, natural and cyclical (with a 50-55 year cycle).</p>
<p>So while the average clearly indicates that a pattern of increased warming has occurred in the 25 years since 1975, it is only a bit greater than the rate of warming in the 25 year period from 1910-1935 (+0.7 to +0.66 or so).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also important to note that the American data is an anomaly from the 1951-1980 average, compared to the 1961-1990 average used for HadCRUT3.</p>
<p>What interests me is the fact that this US graph doesn&#8217;t really correlate with the HadCRUT3 data that most global warming advocates tout for global temperatures.  The US graph seems to have a straight sinusoidal pattern with a nearly flat average slope, while the HadCRUT3 data has a vaguely sinusoidal pattern with the same peaks and troughs, but with a decidedly different strongly positive movement of +0.7 degrees over the entire period.</p>
<p>Personally though, I&#8217;d like to see both graphs as contrasted to solar activity measurements (5 and 11-year averages) and I&#8217;m curious to see from what locales the strongly positive incline came from in the global (as opposed to American) data (e.g. did it come from ocean, rather than land temperatures?  Inland Asia compared to Europe or India?  What about the density of stations?  I assume that&#8217;s accounted for but&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Swoopy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/comment-page-2/#comment-45457</link>
		<dc:creator>Swoopy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/10/is-it-hot-in-here-or-is-it-just-me/#comment-45457</guid>
		<description>Even if you don&#039;t accept the data provided, we&#039;re going to run out of fossil fuels eventually.  Though, not in my life time.  So why worry?

Unless we start making new dinosaurs.  Of course the people at the Creation Museum told me all of the dinos on the ark were small, and vegetarian.  They sure make good gas though.

Does anyone like sitting in traffic and breathing fumes?  Oh wait, I can&#039;t roll down the window because it&#039;s 110 degrees outside, good thing my SUV has excellent air conditioning.  The Mythbusters proved that running the AC full blast has an insignificant impact on my fuel economy, so that&#039;s okay.

I&#039;ll just sit here in traffic for an hour, not carpooling, drinking bottled water, keeping the commercially raised meat wrapped in cellophane in those disposable plastic grocery bags nice and cool.  When I get home, I&#039;ll water my chemically treated lawn in the middle of the day so it stays nice and green.

Ahh, the good life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if you don&#8217;t accept the data provided, we&#8217;re going to run out of fossil fuels eventually.  Though, not in my life time.  So why worry?</p>
<p>Unless we start making new dinosaurs.  Of course the people at the Creation Museum told me all of the dinos on the ark were small, and vegetarian.  They sure make good gas though.</p>
<p>Does anyone like sitting in traffic and breathing fumes?  Oh wait, I can&#8217;t roll down the window because it&#8217;s 110 degrees outside, good thing my SUV has excellent air conditioning.  The Mythbusters proved that running the AC full blast has an insignificant impact on my fuel economy, so that&#8217;s okay.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll just sit here in traffic for an hour, not carpooling, drinking bottled water, keeping the commercially raised meat wrapped in cellophane in those disposable plastic grocery bags nice and cool.  When I get home, I&#8217;ll water my chemically treated lawn in the middle of the day so it stays nice and green.</p>
<p>Ahh, the good life.</p>
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