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	<title>Comments on: Chris Mooney nails it</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: LameGods</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/comment-page-2/#comment-45790</link>
		<dc:creator>LameGods</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/#comment-45790</guid>
		<description>Kudos to all!! It appears to me that science is losing in the US. (I&#039;m in the South) We need to speak up. An atheist/science coalition with some lobbying power is needed. Commercials, advertising, c&#039;mon Paul Allen, help us out :0!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudos to all!! It appears to me that science is losing in the US. (I&#8217;m in the South) We need to speak up. An atheist/science coalition with some lobbying power is needed. Commercials, advertising, c&#8217;mon Paul Allen, help us out :0!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul S</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/comment-page-2/#comment-45789</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 01:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/#comment-45789</guid>
		<description>Actually, only a small minority of Roman Catholics actively participated in either the Crusades or the Inquisition.  There were actually priests and monks who condemned the crusades because they felt that it was contrary to Christianity to spread one&#039;s religion by armed force.

In any event, the total number of people killed by the Inquisition and the Crusades was not any greater than numerous other wars and persecutions throughout history, committed by people of every religion and no religion.  It is important to draw a distinction between religion and the things that were done in the name of religion but in reality were motivated by political power, military ambition, and simple cruelty and sadism.

If this seems unreasonable, do you think that it would be appropriate to say that atheism is responsible for all of the people killed under Stalin and Mao, because those two dictators and their followers were avowed and apparently sincere atheists?

In regards to the Bible and slavery, it would be more accurate to say that some passages of the Bible accept slavery rather than endorsing it.  Other aspects of Biblical ethics, especially in the New Testament, are very much contrary to slavery, which was what motivated certain groups of Christians to become strongly opposed to slavery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, only a small minority of Roman Catholics actively participated in either the Crusades or the Inquisition.  There were actually priests and monks who condemned the crusades because they felt that it was contrary to Christianity to spread one&#8217;s religion by armed force.</p>
<p>In any event, the total number of people killed by the Inquisition and the Crusades was not any greater than numerous other wars and persecutions throughout history, committed by people of every religion and no religion.  It is important to draw a distinction between religion and the things that were done in the name of religion but in reality were motivated by political power, military ambition, and simple cruelty and sadism.</p>
<p>If this seems unreasonable, do you think that it would be appropriate to say that atheism is responsible for all of the people killed under Stalin and Mao, because those two dictators and their followers were avowed and apparently sincere atheists?</p>
<p>In regards to the Bible and slavery, it would be more accurate to say that some passages of the Bible accept slavery rather than endorsing it.  Other aspects of Biblical ethics, especially in the New Testament, are very much contrary to slavery, which was what motivated certain groups of Christians to become strongly opposed to slavery.</p>
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		<title>By: Brant D</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/comment-page-2/#comment-45788</link>
		<dc:creator>Brant D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 01:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/#comment-45788</guid>
		<description>Don Edwards: &quot;Namely, thereâ€™s a large body of money being handed out by various political groups - including governments, the UN, and â€œenvironmentalâ€ activist groups that have been protesting against any sign of capitalism or prosperity or industrialized-world economic progress for 40+ years, among others - to scientists on the one side.&quot;

And where exactly &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; the alleged handouts? In my studies as a grad student in atmospheric science, I have encountered representatives from many climate-oriented research organizations and universities, and nowhere have I seen researchers rolling in dough because of their scientific claims. In fact, what I have very often seen is organizations asking for money from organizations asking for money from someone else. Beggars begging beggars. As far as I can tell (and I&#039;m not the only one on the internet with this opinion), that&#039;s the state of current climate research, the same research that the conservatives claim is needed to clarify the question on global warming.

I&#039;m going to have to ask you for some hard evidence that these handouts exist, or I will have no choice but to conclude you have little idea what you are talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don Edwards: &#8220;Namely, thereâ€™s a large body of money being handed out by various political groups &#8211; including governments, the UN, and â€œenvironmentalâ€ activist groups that have been protesting against any sign of capitalism or prosperity or industrialized-world economic progress for 40+ years, among others &#8211; to scientists on the one side.&#8221;</p>
<p>And where exactly <i>are</i> the alleged handouts? In my studies as a grad student in atmospheric science, I have encountered representatives from many climate-oriented research organizations and universities, and nowhere have I seen researchers rolling in dough because of their scientific claims. In fact, what I have very often seen is organizations asking for money from organizations asking for money from someone else. Beggars begging beggars. As far as I can tell (and I&#8217;m not the only one on the internet with this opinion), that&#8217;s the state of current climate research, the same research that the conservatives claim is needed to clarify the question on global warming.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to have to ask you for some hard evidence that these handouts exist, or I will have no choice but to conclude you have little idea what you are talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: TheBlackCat</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/comment-page-2/#comment-45787</link>
		<dc:creator>TheBlackCat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/#comment-45787</guid>
		<description>It would be different if the crusades or the inquisition were a minority, but they weren&#039;t. They were pretty much all of the Roman Catholic branch of Christianity at the time (i.e. all of western Europe and much of Eastern Europe as well).

It would also be different if the bible didn&#039;t specifically endorse slavery, which it does consistently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be different if the crusades or the inquisition were a minority, but they weren&#8217;t. They were pretty much all of the Roman Catholic branch of Christianity at the time (i.e. all of western Europe and much of Eastern Europe as well).</p>
<p>It would also be different if the bible didn&#8217;t specifically endorse slavery, which it does consistently.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul S</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/comment-page-1/#comment-45786</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/#comment-45786</guid>
		<description>&quot;Paul S: My apologies, I forgot that all of the slave owners were atheists and it was the large number of christians who fought for their freedom. Give it up, religion was not on the forefront of abolition of slavery. It may have been a minority group of them, but the majority were not in this basket.&quot;

Most of the slave owners were not atheists, but certain strains of Christianity (notably the Quakers and some Methodists, Congregationalists, and Presbyterians) were indeed on the forefront of the movement to abolish slavery.  They were a minority of all Christians, but I say that if one is going to condemn Christianity in general for the Crusades or the Inquisition or other persecutions that were carried out by particular groups of Christians, then one should also credit Christianity in general for the positive things accomplished by other groups of Christians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Paul S: My apologies, I forgot that all of the slave owners were atheists and it was the large number of christians who fought for their freedom. Give it up, religion was not on the forefront of abolition of slavery. It may have been a minority group of them, but the majority were not in this basket.&#8221;</p>
<p>Most of the slave owners were not atheists, but certain strains of Christianity (notably the Quakers and some Methodists, Congregationalists, and Presbyterians) were indeed on the forefront of the movement to abolish slavery.  They were a minority of all Christians, but I say that if one is going to condemn Christianity in general for the Crusades or the Inquisition or other persecutions that were carried out by particular groups of Christians, then one should also credit Christianity in general for the positive things accomplished by other groups of Christians.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/comment-page-1/#comment-45785</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/#comment-45785</guid>
		<description>Maurizio,
     I read the piece about Chandrasekhar, but I don&#039;t know how to avoid this sort of problem.  It is not so much a problem specific to the scientific community as a universal problem in all human ventures.  Two people sincerely disagree with each other, and some sort of decision has to be made.  The decision turns out to have been wrong.

One self-correcting aspect of the scientific endeavor, arises from the fact that posterity will declare a winner, and everyone wants to be right in hindsight.  No one is typically so much smarter than ALL his colleagues that NONE of them can grasp his point.  Eventually, good ideas convince some others (who are excited by the prospect of being right), and the field moves on.  For example, Einstein dissented from the Copenhagen interpretation of the quantum theory, but those who believed in it forged ahead with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maurizio,<br />
     I read the piece about Chandrasekhar, but I don&#8217;t know how to avoid this sort of problem.  It is not so much a problem specific to the scientific community as a universal problem in all human ventures.  Two people sincerely disagree with each other, and some sort of decision has to be made.  The decision turns out to have been wrong.</p>
<p>One self-correcting aspect of the scientific endeavor, arises from the fact that posterity will declare a winner, and everyone wants to be right in hindsight.  No one is typically so much smarter than ALL his colleagues that NONE of them can grasp his point.  Eventually, good ideas convince some others (who are excited by the prospect of being right), and the field moves on.  For example, Einstein dissented from the Copenhagen interpretation of the quantum theory, but those who believed in it forged ahead with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Bad Astronomy&#8217;s &#8220;Chris Mooney nails it&#8221; &#171; Omnologos Letters - Le Lettere di Omnologo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/comment-page-1/#comment-45784</link>
		<dc:creator>Bad Astronomy&#8217;s &#8220;Chris Mooney nails it&#8221; &#171; Omnologos Letters - Le Lettere di Omnologo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/08/13/chris-mooney-nails-it/#comment-45784</guid>
		<description>[...] Astronomy&#8217;s &#8220;Chris Mooney nails&#160;it&#8221;  # Maurizio Morabitoon 14 Aug 2007 at 10:27 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Astronomy&#8217;s &#8220;Chris Mooney nails&nbsp;it&#8221;  # Maurizio Morabitoon 14 Aug 2007 at 10:27 [...]</p>
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