Just thought you might like to know.

A man who gets a bad review from a guy he sent a book to decides to send the same man another book for him to review and then gets annoyed when he is given an even worse review.

No wonder he was called a crackpot…

Well, never forget, they laughed at Einstein, they laughed at Galileo, and they laughed at Newton.

But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

I guess now we know why. It was his fantastic tricks with balloon animals!

Congrats on the lawsuit. Look forward to you thrashing the legs off him in court. (Most likely he’ll cave long before it gets there).

What you eventually proved was a statement by Brown that the dischord over the war may have resonated with some of the IAU voters. That was the full extent of the connection. Now you are saying there was a 9/11 connection. That was not your original statement.

As for the supposed name calling, your blog is available for all to go read and judge for themselves. Also, none of your accused comments meet the burden of libel, either. And your whining isn’t helping your reputation. You’re worried about people’s opinion of you, start with your own behavior.

Jeremy said:
> The burden of proof (or even some vague indication of same), is upon anyone here, (seemingly about 50% the commenters), who thinks this is libel in any way.

That is correct. The burden of proof is on Pivar to show that the comments made by PZ amount to libel, assault, and defamation (what he is accusing). Almost no one agrees that any of the comments provide any grounds for any of those claims. Apparently some lawyer was able to find enough ju$tification to file the suit. Whether it will get as far as the first hearing has yet to be seen.

> While the reviewer rightly rips this guys theory apart, it’s not a “crazy” theory or even close. The reviewer mentions himself that the morphological process talked about are pretty much how embryos do form. He merely argues that the exact sequence of morphologies described (and illustrated in such loving detail) are completely made up, and they are.

“Crazy” is a non-technical term. It can colloquially mean “mentally derange, deficit, or in need of psychological help”, or it can mean “bizarre, nonsensical, really strange, not logical”. Pivar’s theory certainly does fit the second use. The proposed mechanism of morphological process PZ does agree should be given more consideration. But that is about as far as the agreement goes. Everything else Pivar describes about his explanation of the processes involved are totally wrong. So it is a bit much for you to say that the theory is not crazy or even close. It is ridiculous in the extreme, beyond the basic premise.

It’s a bit like saying that Creationism is scientifically valid because it agrees that animals exist.

I had something in mind when I wrote that, but isn’t worth repeating. You’re right.

That said, for all sorts of reasons that have been noted here and elsewhere, the suit is doomed (the phrase is an opinion, therefore it’s not defamation, therefore the case will be dismissed). The most legally fundamental reason that Pivar is sunk, I think, is that federal jurisdiction in the case is based on diversity of citizenship–but both Pivar and SEED are based in New York, so diversity fails. That’s sufficient grounds for the judge to throw out the suit (without the defendants even requesting it) right there.

You’re a lawyer, but I thought that federal jurisdiction was based on the fact that one party exists outside of the state (or country), and in this case that would be PZ? In addition, the plaintiff met the over 75,000 requirement–wouldn’t that be sufficient? I ask purely for curiosity.

I think PZ’s response to this was the appropriate one: less said, the better until this issue is resolved.

In other words, if he’s reading this. You’re a moron Pivar. Regardless of what anyone calls you, we all have a right to say what we want and have our own opinions. This is not 2nd grade. Grow up. I hope the judge laughs at you and puts you in contempt for brining an idiot (yourself) into the courtroom.

He has “solved” the classics like doubling the cube and splitting an angle in three and such things that pertain to irrational numbers. Usually he considers himself done once he’s less than 1% wrong.

Also, he has decided how gravity works and written mocking letters to Stephen Hawking. It’s all electromagnetics, really!

He went on to egyptology and explained how the pyramids are built, which is rather impressive for a man who can’t neither visualize nor explain 3-dimensional concepts.

Then he asked me to verify his crackpot ideas, preferrably using those fancy thinking glowing crystals at school called “computers”. It was not an easy teenage.

The burden of proof (or even some vague indication of same), is upon anyone here, (seemingly about 50% the commenters), who thinks this is libel in any way. To be libel it has to be a lie, and not one single person has pointed to a single false statement in the review. One would be hard pressed to find even an exaggeration.

It’s a straightforward, honest review of a book, period.

On the other hand, those going on about this “nutter” and his outrageous/stupid/wacky theories… well it seems you didn’t read the review either.

While the reviewer rightly rips this guys theory apart, it’s not a “crazy” theory or even close. The reviewer mentions himself that the morphological process talked about are pretty much how embryos do form. He merely argues that the exact sequence of morphologies described (and illustrated in such loving detail) are completely made up, and they are.

How do you think embryos form anyway? Do you think there is a little computer inside with a diagram? Guys with staple guns?

“Just as a person who was on the receiving end of being slandered by PZ and BA..

I think jerks should be sued for what they write about PRIVATE CITIZENS”

Are PZ and BA not private citizens? Was that an indirect way of calling them “jerks”? Freedom of speech, fella. Pivar tried to write about something that others knew more about than him, and he got burned. So he started crying. Or he’s kicking up a fuss in order to gain more publicity for his book.

I think you and Pivar are both jerks. Just my humble opinion. So sue me. (shrug) Or call me a jerk back. Go on! I promise to pretend to be upset, but I won’t sue you really.

There have been times in my life when I’ve been deep in thought about something, and then I start talking to someone as if they’ve been part of my mental conversation. This is usually followed by the person looking confused and uttering, “huh?” At that point I realize that I haven’t included this person in my thought process, I apologize, and then I back up a bit.

Now then, huh?

You are posting here as if anyone reading this will know what you’re talking about. How about a link to whatever it is that you were right about in regards to Eris and Dysnomia? And most importantly, how about a link to where either the BA or PZ called you “stupid” or an “idiot.” It’s not that I don’t believe you, but I have to see some evidence of this.

I think jerks should be sued for what they write about PRIVATE CITIZENS—

I mean, I was right about Eris and Dysnomia , but never received even a retraction from either of you guys when you called me “right winger” ‘wingnut’, ‘stupid’, idiot, and other ad-hominems for making an observation about the names of these two planets being approved over 9/11 was suspect.. nevermind the fact i’m a registered independent (told you and PZ about this as well) and that I voted democrat for the past 2 elections…

Point is, I can see how someone could get irritated enough to sue… and if you people actually had to take the time to come to court, hire a lawyer etc.. it may make you think twice before just spouting off some stupid crap about someone.

In my case, you never contacted me to find out my POV on the eris dysnomia, and give me a fair chance to explain where i was coming from, instead you smeared me, and contacted Mike Brown — and i’m willing to bet that PZ did virtually the exact same thing (again)…

I’ll testify on Mr. Pivars behalf that this type of non-factual adhominem PUBLIC attack based upon nothing blogging, is done by PZ all the time.. then these guys try to hide under some supposed blanket of 1st amendment protections after you get busted for smearing someones good name all because of something they believe…

Just check out what happened to Deb Frisch when she made up things about her intellectual opponents… fyi her blog has been turned off by court order no less, and she received misdemeanor harrassment charges, and was convicted… all for saying “bad” things about someone via her blog (the bad things were unsubstantiated which is why she LOST).

Unfortunately Phil, you and PZ do this all the time.. sometimes you give “logical” spankings and other times you make stuff up entirely to meet your respective world views… its the latter that I feel you should be on the hook for… soon we’ll find out where you guys stand.. but I would venture a guess that (people like me and Mr. Pivar) aren’t worth the hassle of going to court etc..— after all you have bigger fish to fry.. you know.. people like Hovind , and the Creationists..

That’s a weird misreading. The claim is that it’s unfair to mentally ill people to use terms associated with mental illness as epithets to apply to people who pigheadedly hold foolishly misguided views. Clinically sane people are just as capable as those who are clinically mentally ill of being blind to scientific evidence (if this weren’t the case, we’d have way less disbelief in evolution than we do).

I have no intention of staying in the meaning of the word crackpot part of this thread, since Joel’s already taken that off to his own blog. And as for the libel part, I’ve already said that I think Pivar counts as a public figure and would therefore have to meet a higher bar than he’s met. But your comment is silly; if admitting to being mentally ill automatically disqualifies you from arguing that something indicates prejudice against mental illness, well, then, you’ve just disqualified mentally ill people from speaking for themselves at all. And mental illness (especially treatment-compliant mental illness, but even untreated mental illness) doesn’t completely mentally incapacitate a person to the point where all his opinions can be discredited.

That said, for all sorts of reasons that have been noted here and elsewhere, the suit is doomed (the phrase is an opinion, therefore it’s not defamation, therefore the case will be dismissed). The most legally fundamental reason that Pivar is sunk, I think, is that federal jurisdiction in the case is based on diversity of citizenship–but both Pivar and SEED are based in New York, so diversity fails. That’s sufficient grounds for the judge to throw out the suit (without the defendants even requesting it) right there.

P.S.: IAAL, though I don’t have nearly as much experience in defamation cases as several other attorneys who have commented on this matter in the past day-plus on various blogs.