Comments on: More Mars caves found! http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/ I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:09:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: ??? http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-305128 ??? Wed, 15 Sep 2010 17:46:44 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-305128 if they are holes, wouldnt the way the light hit them be the opposite of how it hits the nearby dunes? i would expect the leading side of a dune in relation to the sun would be lit while the back is in shadow, which you see here. i would further expect that a pit viewed at the same orientation would have the back of its inner area lit, while the front of the visible interior would be cast in shadow by the leading edge of the overhanging crust, but that is not what i see in these photos. if they are holes, wouldnt the way the light hit them be the opposite of how it hits the nearby dunes? i would expect the leading side of a dune in relation to the sun would be lit while the back is in shadow, which you see here. i would further expect that a pit viewed at the same orientation would have the back of its inner area lit, while the front of the visible interior would be cast in shadow by the leading edge of the overhanging crust, but that is not what i see in these photos.

]]> By: Steven http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-158008 Steven Tue, 24 Feb 2009 02:29:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-158008 If anyone has done their studying; this may draw some interesting theories. If you read about the annunaki and etc., earlier civilization documentations, UFO's and etc., fallen angels, cross-breeds. Aliens. Aliens may also be fallen angels who were casted away. Who's to say they didn't traverse space. They may have mutated; or change through physical damage from something or someone(s) or alterings; due to space travel. The caves on Mars could merely be where these beings drilled for precious minerals to bring back to their planet. Who's to say they didn't leave something behind. These caves could be proof for extraterrestrial existence. Their are too many UFO cases reported over the world. Too much evidence from early civilization documentation and evidence in space. Supports the theory of a tenth planet that comes in and out our solar system. The Broken Bracelet being the planet Tiamat at one time, cataklysmic damage shown on planets as scars, and etc. shows proof of a planet coming in and out. I could keep on going. I'll stop here. If anyone has done their studying; this may draw some interesting theories.
If you read about the annunaki and etc., earlier civilization documentations, UFO’s and etc., fallen angels, cross-breeds. Aliens. Aliens may also be fallen angels who were casted away. Who’s to say they didn’t traverse space. They may have mutated; or change through physical damage from something or someone(s) or alterings; due to space travel. The caves on Mars could merely be where these beings drilled for precious minerals to bring back to their planet. Who’s to say they didn’t leave something behind.
These caves could be proof for extraterrestrial existence. Their are too many UFO cases reported over the world. Too much evidence from early civilization documentation and evidence in space. Supports the theory of a tenth planet that comes in and out our solar system. The Broken Bracelet being the planet Tiamat at one time, cataklysmic damage shown on planets as scars, and etc. shows proof of a planet coming in and out. I could keep on going. I’ll stop here.

]]> By: ipgrunt http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49439 ipgrunt Mon, 24 Sep 2007 17:23:22 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49439 # # ACW on 21 Sep 2007 at 2:32 pm wrote: # # Notice the plume of lighter material stretching north from Aperture F. # Are there any theories about what that is? I share ACW's curiosity about the light colored area north of the 'hole'--is this perhaps some sort of wind effect we're seeing? Could this be a clue to the nature of these phenomena? There seems to be similar markings on some of the other photographs, for instance, the photograph marked F on this page: http://planetary.org/blog/article/00000984 has a very long light colored section at the top of the hole. In the high-res photo of Jeanne, also available from this page, at 400% magnification I'm seeing what looks to be cliffs and small shoreline-like features in the area of 11 to 12 O'clock, and the object appears to be a round pool of dark liquid, almost a Crater Lake-like caldera feature. #
# ACW on 21 Sep 2007 at 2:32 pm wrote:
#
# Notice the plume of lighter material stretching north from Aperture F. # Are there any theories about what that is?

I share ACW’s curiosity about the light colored area north of the ‘hole’–is this perhaps some sort of wind effect we’re seeing? Could this be a clue to the nature of these phenomena?

There seems to be similar markings on some of the other photographs, for instance, the photograph marked F on this page:

http://planetary.org/blog/article/00000984

has a very long light colored section at the top of the hole.

In the high-res photo of Jeanne, also available from this page, at 400% magnification I’m seeing what looks to be cliffs and small shoreline-like features in the area of 11 to 12 O’clock, and the object appears to be a round pool of dark liquid, almost a Crater Lake-like caldera feature.

]]> By: AndreH http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49438 AndreH Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:46:51 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49438 Domes / craters What helps me a lot is to know the direction were the ligth is coming from. then I "see" the source of light before my "inner eye" and immediately recognise what the shape is. It is even possible to flip from domes to craters and vice versa by "putting" the source of light to the other side. Great pics!! Andre Domes / craters

What helps me a lot is to know the direction were the ligth is coming from. then I “see” the source of light before my “inner eye” and immediately recognise what the shape is.

It is even possible to flip from domes to craters and vice versa by “putting” the source of light to the other side.

Great pics!!

Andre

]]> By: Tracy http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49437 Tracy Mon, 24 Sep 2007 13:01:40 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49437 Who knew that mars would be populated by cavemen? Bet they saved a lot on their car insurance. Who knew that mars would be populated by cavemen? Bet they saved a lot on their car insurance.

]]> By: Meags http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49436 Meags Mon, 24 Sep 2007 03:45:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49436 In reply to Thanny's comment: In my job I spend a lot of time looking at large scale aerial photos, and if I have north pointed down instead of up, I often see hills as valleys and vice versa. It can be a bit disorientating, but is instantly fixed as soon as I turn the photos the correct way up. This is irrespective of the time of day the photo was taken. In reply to Thanny’s comment: In my job I spend a lot of time looking at large scale aerial photos, and if I have north pointed down instead of up, I often see hills as valleys and vice versa. It can be a bit disorientating, but is instantly fixed as soon as I turn the photos the correct way up. This is irrespective of the time of day the photo was taken.

]]> By: Science Teacher http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49434 Science Teacher Mon, 24 Sep 2007 00:29:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49434 Oh dear. I had to look at the photos again to see the domes. Sorry 'bout that. :) Oh dear. I had to look at the photos again to see the domes.

Sorry ’bout that. :)

]]> By: Cheez Mastah http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49435 Cheez Mastah Sun, 23 Sep 2007 19:36:54 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49435 I actually saw craters in the pictures until Phil mentioned the domes. Even then, I had to TRY and see domes, which I eventually did. I actually saw craters in the pictures until Phil mentioned the domes. Even then, I had to TRY and see domes, which I eventually did.

]]> By: Tom http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49430 Tom Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:27:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49430 Odds are, the caves are tubes, not vast open volumes under the ground. The orientation of the tube would be hard to discern in the picture, but I'm betting it would be in the 'down' direction of the mountain. The one double skylight in 'E' probably shows the direction of a tube, or it's two tubes side by side. I hadn't thought about meteors punching the holes, but it's a mechanism that makes sense. Odds are, the caves are tubes, not vast open volumes under the ground. The orientation of the tube would be hard to discern in the picture, but I’m betting it would be in the ‘down’ direction of the mountain. The one double skylight in ‘E’ probably shows the direction of a tube, or it’s two tubes side by side. I hadn’t thought about meteors punching the holes, but it’s a mechanism that makes sense.

]]> By: boggis the cat http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49431 boggis the cat Sun, 23 Sep 2007 11:24:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49431 So if we do end up populating Mars we'll be back to living in caves? They aren't lying about history repeating itself, then. :) So if we do end up populating Mars we’ll be back to living in caves?

They aren’t lying about history repeating itself, then. :)

]]> By: Max Udargo http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49433 Max Udargo Sun, 23 Sep 2007 04:30:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49433 Are these "skylights" caused by meteors punching through a thin crust and exposing the cavern beneath? Is that why they are so uniformly round? But, if so, then why do the bigger impressions nearby not break through to the underground cavern? Are these “skylights” caused by meteors punching through a thin crust and exposing the cavern beneath? Is that why they are so uniformly round? But, if so, then why do the bigger impressions nearby not break through to the underground cavern?

]]> By: KaiYeves http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49432 KaiYeves Sat, 22 Sep 2007 23:31:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49432 "Enterprise Mission to see what amazing cliams Hoagland is making in regards to these caves, but I think I’m going to have to fight it." I often feel the urge to find RCH's E-Mail address and send him the poem "We Wear the Mask". I think it describes him perfectly. “Enterprise Mission to see what amazing cliams Hoagland is making in regards to these caves, but I think I’m going to have to fight it.”
I often feel the urge to find RCH’s E-Mail address and send him the poem “We Wear the Mask”. I think it describes him perfectly.

]]> By: Elwood Herring http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49428 Elwood Herring Sat, 22 Sep 2007 19:45:57 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49428 Craters <i>always</i> look like bumps to me regardless of how I turn the pictures - maybe my eyeballs curve inwards or something... Craters always look like bumps to me regardless of how I turn the pictures – maybe my eyeballs curve inwards or something…

]]> By: BlockStacker http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49427 BlockStacker Sat, 22 Sep 2007 19:38:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49427 Epoxy the walls to make them airtight so that we don't have build our own structures? Epoxy the walls to make them airtight so that we don’t have build our own structures?

]]> By: BlockStacker http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49429 BlockStacker Sat, 22 Sep 2007 19:36:22 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49429 Mars Caves?! We could live in them! (If it turned out doing that conferred some advantage...) Mars Caves?! We could live in them! (If it turned out doing that conferred some advantage…)

]]> By: Tom http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49425 Tom Sat, 22 Sep 2007 10:27:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49425 Very cool discovery, but this is old news. Alan Boyle reported on it (with the same picture) in March. http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/19/94112.aspx Is NASA losing track of their press releases? Very cool discovery, but this is old news. Alan Boyle reported on it (with the same picture) in March.

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/03/19/94112.aspx

Is NASA losing track of their press releases?

]]> By: Lyle Gaulding http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49424 Lyle Gaulding Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:18:35 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49424 Obviously that's whee the Martians are. As forsccn by much old SF Obviously that’s whee the Martians are. As forsccn by much old SF

]]> By: Thanny http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49423 Thanny Sat, 22 Sep 2007 08:35:52 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49423 I frequently get the dome illusion when looking at pictures like that. It doesn't matter which way the picture is rotated. I think the most important factor, beyond the inability to move and get a different perspective, is that the pictures are face on. I don't believe our brains expect sunlight from any particular direction, and there are no good cues in the image to go on (such as a horizon). I frequently get the dome illusion when looking at pictures like that. It doesn’t matter which way the picture is rotated. I think the most important factor, beyond the inability to move and get a different perspective, is that the pictures are face on. I don’t believe our brains expect sunlight from any particular direction, and there are no good cues in the image to go on (such as a horizon).

]]> By: CR http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49422 CR Sat, 22 Sep 2007 06:26:03 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49422 I, too, saw craters in the first pic, then domes in the rotated pic. Strangely (or perhaps awesomely), I rarley have trouble seeing craters as craters when looking at pics of them... I guess it comes with having viewed so many of them in my spare time, and knowing what they are 'supposed' to be. On the other hand, the cautionary advice is still sound: examine all the data, don't necessarily just trust a first glance. Cool pics, by the way, and cool way of locating the caves via their heat signatures. I, too, saw craters in the first pic, then domes in the rotated pic. Strangely (or perhaps awesomely), I rarley have trouble seeing craters as craters when looking at pics of them… I guess it comes with having viewed so many of them in my spare time, and knowing what they are ‘supposed’ to be.
On the other hand, the cautionary advice is still sound: examine all the data, don’t necessarily just trust a first glance.

Cool pics, by the way, and cool way of locating the caves via their heat signatures.

]]> By: John Paradox http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49426 John Paradox Sat, 22 Sep 2007 03:55:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49426 <i>Hoagland was right all along and Dr. Plait is just a Bush stooge! The “facts” fit the theory perfectly, so it must be completely correct!</i> [DEITY] I love the Interwebs. all those pipes J/P=? Hoagland was right all along and Dr. Plait is just a Bush stooge! The “facts” fit the theory perfectly, so it must be completely correct!

[DEITY] I love the Interwebs.

all those pipes

J/P=?

]]> By: Alareth http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49421 Alareth Sat, 22 Sep 2007 00:29:50 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49421 There is a little masochistic voice in the back of my mind that wants me to go over to Enterprise Mission to see what amazing cliams Hoagland is making in regards to these caves, but I think I'm going to have to fight it. There is a little masochistic voice in the back of my mind that wants me to go over to Enterprise Mission to see what amazing cliams Hoagland is making in regards to these caves, but I think I’m going to have to fight it.

]]> By: KaiYeves http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49420 KaiYeves Fri, 21 Sep 2007 23:58:50 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49420 Cave canem! Cave canem!

]]> By: Seamyst http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49419 Seamyst Fri, 21 Sep 2007 22:50:37 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49419 Nope, they look more like domes in the rotated image than in the original. ACW - I saw that too. I have no clue what it is, but it looks interesting. To my sleepy eyes, in the original picture it looks like elongated, wavy flames. Or a wavery impression of someone giving us the finger. Nope, they look more like domes in the rotated image than in the original.

ACW – I saw that too. I have no clue what it is, but it looks interesting. To my sleepy eyes, in the original picture it looks like elongated, wavy flames. Or a wavery impression of someone giving us the finger.

]]> By: Walter Brameld IV http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49418 Walter Brameld IV Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:03:12 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49418 Both those pictures look like domes to me. I had to rotate the original image 180 degrees so that the sunlight in the image was coming from the same direction as the lamp on my desk before my visual cortex would admit that those are craters. Both those pictures look like domes to me. I had to rotate the original image 180 degrees so that the sunlight in the image was coming from the same direction as the lamp on my desk before my visual cortex would admit that those are craters.

]]> By: PsyberDave http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/comment-page-1/#comment-49417 PsyberDave Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:41:49 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/09/21/more-mars-caves-found/#comment-49417 The dome/crater illusion reminds me of the classic Necker cube: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necker_cube The rotation of the above photos didn't force me to see craters either, but what did was the BA's suggestion. I would have probably continued to see them as domes had I not been alerted and made the effort to see them as craters. The dome/crater illusion reminds me of the classic Necker cube:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necker_cube

The rotation of the above photos didn’t force me to see craters either, but what did was the BA’s suggestion. I would have probably continued to see them as domes had I not been alerted and made the effort to see them as craters.

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