I know some of those, and some I didn’t. I tried to keep my citations relevant to the founding of this secular republic, so I didn’t use any that weren’t. I refrained from using Diderot’s “entrails” intentionally, didn’t want to give my buddy Tood any more of a persecution complex than he already has

As to the “under” concept, I can easily see it as having a pornographic connotation. I once saw an Atheist cartoon depicting a man being “under” a god, but out of respect for Phil’s apparently “G-rating” for this forum, I’ll go no further redrawing it with words.

And finally, being one who seldom leaves questions unanswered, even at the end of threads, yes, apparently a few do

Silly over-literal interpretation? Sure, but as sensible as a lot that is taken seriously!

On which note I am going to bed leaving behind just one question : Does anyone read down this far this late in the thread anyway?

“Who loves not women, wine and song remains a fool his whole life long.”

You can only presume that Luther wished all women were lesbians!
(Think about it…)

“Selina Morse -again – beat me to the comment. Was going to say “What? You mean Catholic’s AREN’T Christians??” And here I thought they were – like – the original ones!”

Funny that’s what the Orthodox (Russian, Greek, Armenian etc ..) think too! They think the Popes splitfromthem and they’re original and right .. and as someoen elsepointed out tehfirst Christians were Jews followinga Jewish herectic and his disciples -well one branch off one (essenes?) Jewish cult . (The JudeanPeoples front or thePeopels front ofJudea perhaps… Orwas thatjust Monty python??

Plus too, many religious sects and schisms inc. some evangelical protestants think Catholics – indeed – aren’t “Christians” but would call them an “idolaterous”, “counterfeit”, “false” Church – pretty much as Catholics think of them being in their own eyes the one true church …

Personally, I think we atheists are much politer and more consistent in saying “sorry but you’re all wrong” than the various branches of supposedly the same religion are to each other.. At very least we’d not condemn Mother Teresa to hell as a Catholic or Martin Luther King to hell for beingProtestant or both to hell for not being Syrian Orthodox as you”d do. In fairness, okay, some of you – but theres the point :

_Everyone_ seems to have their own denomination, faith, sect, brand, favourite preacher, personal Jesus idea. Which God are we supposed to be under,whose version and says who … ?

Under One God? One ‘Christian’ God …? Puh-leese!
Indivisible? United? You’ve gotta be joking!

&, girl, am I glad I’m an Aussie and thus don’t have such pomposities of tribalistic custom to deal with … Sigh.

Cic & Irishman among others – thankyou for some excellent quotes. Might I humbly add these to your lists :

“Since it is impossible to coerce thought, the way to social harmony is to discuss conflict and pursue truth; the more people speak their minds freely, the more they are likely to be loyal citizens.’
– 17th Century [Dutch Jewish heretic] philosopher, B. Spinoza

“ I am not in actual fact a Zionist. I don’t think that Jews have some sort of ancestral right to take over a land because their ancestors lived there 1,900 years ago. … Nor do I consider to be legally valid the biblical promises by God that the land of Canaan would belong to the Children of Israel forever. … But don’t Jews deserve a homeland? Actually, I feel that no human group deserves a “homeland” in the usual sense of the word. The Earth should not be cut up into hundreds of different sections, each inhabited by a self-defined segment of humanity that considers its own welfare and its own “national security” to be paramount above all other considerations. … I am not a Zionist, then, because I don’t believe in nations … There are no nations! There is only humanity. And if we don’t come to understand that right soon, there will be no nations, because there will be no humanity.”
- Isaac Asimov, Pages 419-421, ‘ I Asimov : A memoir’ chapter 7 ‘anti-Semitism’, Bantam Books , 1995.

“There is one safeguard known generally to the wise, which is an advantage and security to all, but especially to democracies against despots – suspicion.”
- Demosthenes, Phillipics-2. [Collins Concise Dictionary of Quotations, P.108.]

” ..the United States is neither omnipotent nor omniscient. We [the USA] are only 6% of the World’s population – we cannot impose our will upon the other 94% of mankind.”
- John F. Kennedy. (Quoted by Phillip Adams, Page 11, ‘Weekend Australian’ magazine. Dec. 13-14, 2003.)

“We cannot consider that the armed invasion and occupation of another country are peaceful or proper means to achieve justice and conformity with international law.”
- President Eisenhower (quoted in ’The Guardian weekly’, 2005 Jan 28th – Feb. 3rd .)

“Wherever our armies have marched, wherever they have encamped, every species of barbarity has been executed. We planted an irrevocable hatred wherever we went, which neither time nor measure will be able to eradicate.”
- Col. Charles Stuart during the American War of Independence, 1778.
(Iraq, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib & Palestine ring any bells there folks?)

“The supreme reality of our time is the vulnerability of our planet.”
- US President, John F. Kennedy, 1963.

“Although it is true that not all conservatives are stupid, it is also true that most stupid people are conservative.” – John Stuart Mill

“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest!”
- Dennis Diderot (1713-1784)
[Note :Yes, that's tongue-in-cheek for the irony-blind. I don't _actually _recommend taking that advice but I _can_ understand the frustration that drives it!]

& on the lighter side :

“Who loves not women, wine and song remains a fool his whole life long.”
- Martin Luther (Yep, the founder of Lutheranism – Believe it or not!)

& finally for the literalists on the pews doing EXACTLY what they’re told :

“Would the congregation please note that the bowl at the back of the Church labelled ‘For the sick’ is for monetary donations only.’
- Apparently a real church sign. (In a ‘Readers Digest’ I think from memory ..)

Hmmn .. Care to donate something for any organised fundamentalist religion?

BBBBLLLLEERRRRRRGGHGGHHH!!! There you go!

Hmmn … Dope cookies which are far stronger than dope ciggies seem to answer that one!