Comments on: October 4, 1957 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/ I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:27:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Sweet Yummy Reality http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-2/#comment-50884 Sweet Yummy Reality Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:10:03 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50884 [...] I was going to say a few things about the 50th anniversary of the launch of Sputnik, but it looks like Phil Plait at Bad Astronomy already wrote a lot of stuff along the lines I was thinking! [...] [...] I was going to say a few things about the 50th anniversary of the launch of Sputnik, but it looks like Phil Plait at Bad Astronomy already wrote a lot of stuff along the lines I was thinking! [...]

]]> By: Mena http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-2/#comment-50883 Mena Sat, 13 Oct 2007 01:54:51 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50883 Thanks, Jack! Thanks, Jack!

]]> By: Raj Chanian http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-2/#comment-50882 Raj Chanian Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:36:12 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50882 Dood, Absolutely! Blogged it myself. Like your blog too, its very useful. See if you can visit my blog and solve my Mystery Tour Of the Universe Episode 1. I challenge you to it, considering your such a keen astronomer. Regards Raj Dood,

Absolutely! Blogged it myself. Like your blog too, its very useful.
See if you can visit my blog and solve my Mystery Tour Of the Universe Episode 1.

I challenge you to it, considering your such a keen astronomer.

Regards

Raj

]]> By: Jack Hagerty http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-2/#comment-50878 Jack Hagerty Sun, 07 Oct 2007 21:24:25 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50878 Ken says: "Only the Soviets could do it? I thought Von Braun could have orbited a satellite in 1956 but was ordered not to try." Basically correct. There were even some government inspectors assigned to making sure that the dummy upper stages on his Juno test vehicles were actually that. The reason we didn't launch an orbital vehicle first is that no one had addressed the legal question of flyover rights from outer space. Eisenhower was afraid that when a U.S. launched satellite passed over Soviet territory (as it had to several times every day), they could use it as a precedent to invasion, or at the least as a propaganda tool bashing "U.S. aggression." By letting them go first, the problem solved itself. - Jack Ken says: “Only the Soviets could do it? I thought Von Braun could have orbited a satellite in 1956 but was ordered not to try.”

Basically correct. There were even some government inspectors assigned to making sure that the dummy upper stages on his Juno test vehicles were actually that.

The reason we didn’t launch an orbital vehicle first is that no one had addressed the legal question of flyover rights from outer space. Eisenhower was afraid that when a U.S. launched satellite passed over Soviet territory (as it had to several times every day), they could use it as a precedent to invasion, or at the least as a propaganda tool bashing “U.S. aggression.” By letting them go first, the problem solved itself.

- Jack

]]> By: Ken http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-2/#comment-50881 Ken Sat, 06 Oct 2007 21:15:12 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50881 Only the Soviets could do it? I thought Von Braun could have orbited a satellite in 1956 but was ordered not to try. Only the Soviets could do it? I thought Von Braun could have orbited a satellite in 1956 but was ordered not to try.

]]> By: StevoR http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-2/#comment-50875 StevoR Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:42:56 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50875 Sorry about the double post & typos. Mea culpa. Sorry about the double post & typos. Mea culpa.

]]> By: StevoR http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-2/#comment-50877 StevoR Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:40:01 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50877 # Frank Oswalton said on 04 Oct 2007 at 2:55 am : '“launched for reasons of pride, territoriality, greed” — do we ever act for reasons other than this?" Heck, yes! For individuals the drive to make love is probably thestronmgest and most powerful of all biological drives ... Could be the space race was the the ultimate "mine is bigger than yours" sizeable reproductive organs challenge. The BA seemingly implied that Sputnik's launch was "bad" from which came a "good" set of American responses. Not true as I see it - among many others. Sputnik was great - and the American accomplishments afterit were great also! ;-) If any Saudi's royals are out there wanting to help the Islamic world and America - well you've got the $$$$ available -why don't you start preparing or even outright buying a space programe? Let's see a Joint Saudi-Iranian Lunar astationor Martian mission whilst Amercia remains held bacjk by its Christian taleban & thensee how quickly the USA gets going again ... ;-) Bin Laden in space? - I'd love to see him there .. ... after a really big missile hit on his cave! ;-) KKKKKKAAAAAAABBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!! # Frank Oswalton said on 04 Oct 2007 at 2:55 am :

‘“launched for reasons of pride, territoriality, greed” — do we ever act for reasons other than this?”

Heck, yes!

For individuals the drive to make love is probably thestronmgest and most powerful of all biological drives …

Could be the space race was the the ultimate “mine is bigger than yours” sizeable reproductive organs challenge.

The BA seemingly implied that Sputnik’s launch was “bad” from which came a “good” set of American responses.

Not true as I see it – among many others.

Sputnik was great – and the American accomplishments afterit were great also! ;-)

If any Saudi’s royals are out there wanting to help the Islamic world and America – well you’ve got the $$$$ available -why don’t you start preparing or even outright buying a space programe? Let’s see a Joint Saudi-Iranian Lunar astationor Martian mission whilst Amercia remains held bacjk by its Christian taleban & thensee how quickly the USA gets going again … ;-)

Bin Laden in space? – I’d love to see him there ..

… after a really big missile hit on his cave! ;-)

KKKKKKAAAAAAABBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

]]> By: StevoR http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-2/#comment-50876 StevoR Sat, 06 Oct 2007 11:38:23 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50876 # Frank Oswalton said on 04 Oct 2007 at 2:55 am : '“launched for reasons of pride, territoriality, greed” — do we ever act for reasons other than this?" Heck, yes! For individuals the drive to make love is probably thestronmgest and most powerful of all biological drives ... Could be the space race was the the ultimate "mine is bigger than yours" sizeable reproductive organs challenge. The BA seemingly implied that Sputnik's launch was "bad" from which came a "good" set of American responses. Not true as I see it - among many others. Sputnik was great - and the American accomplishments afterit were great also! ;-) If any Saudi's royals are out there wanting to help the Islamic world and America - well you've got the $$$$ available -why don't you start preparing or even outright buying a space programe? Let's see a Joint Saudi-Iranian Lunar astationor Martian mission whilst Amercia remains held bacjk by its Christian taleban & thensee how quickly the USA gets going again ... ;-) Bin Laden in space? - I'd love to see him there .. ... after as really big missile hit on his cave! ;-) KKKKKKAAAAAAABBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!! # Frank Oswalton said on 04 Oct 2007 at 2:55 am :

‘“launched for reasons of pride, territoriality, greed” — do we ever act for reasons other than this?”

Heck, yes!

For individuals the drive to make love is probably thestronmgest and most powerful of all biological drives …

Could be the space race was the the ultimate “mine is bigger than yours” sizeable reproductive organs challenge.

The BA seemingly implied that Sputnik’s launch was “bad” from which came a “good” set of American responses.

Not true as I see it – among many others.

Sputnik was great – and the American accomplishments afterit were great also! ;-)

If any Saudi’s royals are out there wanting to help the Islamic world and America – well you’ve got the $$$$ available -why don’t you start preparing or even outright buying a space programe? Let’s see a Joint Saudi-Iranian Lunar astationor Martian mission whilst Amercia remains held bacjk by its Christian taleban & thensee how quickly the USA gets going again … ;-)

Bin Laden in space? – I’d love to see him there ..

… after as really big missile hit on his cave! ;-)

KKKKKKAAAAAAABBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

]]> By: Jack Hagerty http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-2/#comment-50880 Jack Hagerty Sat, 06 Oct 2007 01:46:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50880 Correction on my previous post. I was thinking of Sputnik 2. The original Sputnik reentered in January 1958. In other words, their first satellite was down before our first one was up. - Jack Correction on my previous post. I was thinking of Sputnik 2. The original Sputnik reentered in January 1958. In other words, their first satellite was down before our first one was up.

- Jack

]]> By: Jack Hagerty http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-2/#comment-50879 Jack Hagerty Sat, 06 Oct 2007 00:56:45 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50879 Menaon says: "Ok, dumb question but I can’t seem to find the answer anywhere. How long did it survive? More than one orbit?" About a year and a half. The orbit was low and circular. The US "Vanguard" project (the one that blew up on TV in December 1957) eventually launched its "grapefruit" tracking target payload the following March and it's still up there. It is in a highly eccentric orbit with an apogee well over 1,000 miles. It is the oldest artificial object in space, having acquired that title after Explorer I (launched January 1958) reentered sometime around 1970. - Jack Menaon says: “Ok, dumb question but I can’t seem to find the answer anywhere. How long did it survive? More than one orbit?”

About a year and a half. The orbit was low and circular.

The US “Vanguard” project (the one that blew up on TV in December 1957) eventually launched its “grapefruit” tracking target payload the following March and it’s still up there. It is in a highly eccentric orbit with an apogee well over 1,000 miles. It is the oldest artificial object in space, having acquired that title after Explorer I (launched January 1958) reentered sometime around 1970.

- Jack

]]> By: PK http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50874 PK Fri, 05 Oct 2007 10:43:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50874 "Sometimes, out of bad comes good." Actually, this happens quite often. This is because "good" and "bad" are not absolutes, but depend on your morality. “Sometimes, out of bad comes good.”

Actually, this happens quite often. This is because “good” and “bad” are not absolutes, but depend on your morality.

]]> By: 50 Years in Space « Very Important Stuff http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50873 50 Years in Space « Very Important Stuff Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:47:45 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50873 [...] object never visited by the Russians. This morning, Phil Plait at the Bad Astronomy Blog has a nice article on Sputnik, with some good [...] [...] object never visited by the Russians. This morning, Phil Plait at the Bad Astronomy Blog has a nice article on Sputnik, with some good [...]

]]> By: Grand Lunar http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50872 Grand Lunar Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:23:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50872 "However, Grand Lunar, I’m pretty sure it was Columbia." Ibrahimon, what mission are you referring to with the EVA you referenced? How long ago did it happen? That'll clear things up here. Oh, have you read Phil's book? He mentions the phrase "quantum leap" and it's usage. “However, Grand Lunar, I’m pretty sure it was Columbia.”

Ibrahimon, what mission are you referring to with the EVA you referenced? How long ago did it happen? That’ll clear things up here.

Oh, have you read Phil’s book? He mentions the phrase “quantum leap” and it’s usage.

]]> By: The Invisible Library » Blog Archive » Sputnik, Comrads! http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50871 The Invisible Library » Blog Archive » Sputnik, Comrads! Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:12:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50871 [...] little basketball that the commies launched into orbit fifty years ago today. Then I saw that Phil Plait went and wrote all that and then some. So go there and [...] [...] little basketball that the commies launched into orbit fifty years ago today. Then I saw that Phil Plait went and wrote all that and then some. So go there and [...]

]]> By: Joshua http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50870 Joshua Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:47:38 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50870 Since TAMU Student mentioned Laika, I have to point out that there's a really fabulous indie graphic novel by that name. It dramatises the story of Laika herself, as well as Sergei Korolev and one of her handlers. The story is heavily mixed with fiction, but it's still a remarkable story about the atmosphere of the time and the personalities that brought such a historical event into being. Since TAMU Student mentioned Laika, I have to point out that there’s a really fabulous indie graphic novel by that name. It dramatises the story of Laika herself, as well as Sergei Korolev and one of her handlers. The story is heavily mixed with fiction, but it’s still a remarkable story about the atmosphere of the time and the personalities that brought such a historical event into being.

]]> By: Kira http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50869 Kira Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:45:11 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50869 It makes me proud that I turn 21 on Sputnik 1's 50th anniversary. I was destined to be a space geek I think. Happy birthday beautiful satellite! It makes me proud that I turn 21 on Sputnik 1′s 50th anniversary. I was destined to be a space geek I think.

Happy birthday beautiful satellite!

]]> By: Ken S http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50868 Ken S Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:29:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50868 Oh Boy. Patrick, I didn't say anything about how much should be spent on military spending or who was out to get whom. I merely pointed out that I thought that as technology is expanding I would hope the government doesn't ignore space when it comes to issues of it's citizen's protection. Oh Boy. Patrick, I didn’t say anything about how much should be spent on military spending or who was out to get whom. I merely pointed out that I thought that as technology is expanding I would hope the government doesn’t ignore space when it comes to issues of it’s citizen’s protection.

]]> By: Mena http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50867 Mena Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:12:21 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50867 Ok, dumb question but I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. How long did it survive? More than one orbit? Ok, dumb question but I can’t seem to find the answer anywhere. How long did it survive? More than one orbit?

]]> By: slavdude http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50866 slavdude Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:10:58 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50866 Hey Phil, If you're interested (and actually in Boulder), my theater group is putting on a few little shows relating to Sputnik at the Fiske on Saturday (shameless plug and theater-whoring). slavdude (the stage manager for the show) Hey Phil,

If you’re interested (and actually in Boulder), my theater group is putting on a few little shows relating to Sputnik at the Fiske on Saturday (shameless plug and theater-whoring).

slavdude (the stage manager for the show)

]]> By: TAMU Student http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50865 TAMU Student Thu, 04 Oct 2007 21:01:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50865 "Why not? Huskies got us to the Poles, didn’t they?" Yes, but naming the calling the dog Husky is kinda funny, IMO. It would be like if we called all the Chimpanzee's "Chimp". “Why not? Huskies got us to the Poles, didn’t they?”

Yes, but naming the calling the dog Husky is kinda funny, IMO.

It would be like if we called all the Chimpanzee’s “Chimp”.

]]> By: Die Beste Aller Zeiten - Eike Pierstorff : Blog Archive : Space Age http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50864 Die Beste Aller Zeiten - Eike Pierstorff : Blog Archive : Space Age Thu, 04 Oct 2007 20:58:35 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50864 [...] Dr. Philip Plait at badastronomy.com blogs about Sputnik and the many benefits the development of satellites brought forth (a minor quibble would be that communications really depend much more on submarine cables, satellites don’t provide that much bandwidth). [...] [...] Dr. Philip Plait at badastronomy.com blogs about Sputnik and the many benefits the development of satellites brought forth (a minor quibble would be that communications really depend much more on submarine cables, satellites don’t provide that much bandwidth). [...]

]]> By: Salad Is Slaughter http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50863 Salad Is Slaughter Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:57:59 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50863 I wonder how many jobs wouldn't exist today if Sputnik had never launched. I know mine wouldn't, but then I spent a dozen years in satellite ops, and several more testing satellite flight software. And would the computer and software industries as we know them even exist if there hadn't been the pressure to miniaturize computers? I wonder how many jobs wouldn’t exist today if Sputnik had never launched. I know mine wouldn’t, but then I spent a dozen years in satellite ops, and several more testing satellite flight software.

And would the computer and software industries as we know them even exist if there hadn’t been the pressure to miniaturize computers?

]]> By: Patrick http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50861 Patrick Thu, 04 Oct 2007 18:40:03 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50861 Ken: I hate to point out the obvious, but no country is threatening to invade the United States and kill large numbers of people in the process. On the other hand, thousands of people are currently being killed and the invasion of other countries (Iran) is threatened - by the United States. Please don't pretend this has anything to do with "protect[ing] their citizens." This enormous military spending, which dwarfs that of any possible "enemies," is an enormous fraud, depriving Americans and the world of the benefits those funds could produce if not put into means of destruction. Those benefits include scientific benefits. Gary: I don't think I agree with that pessimistic assessment (after all, many diseases have been cured without a military budget). But, if the trade-off for going to the moon is accepting the violent deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, maybe the moon isn't so important. I don't want to draw that conclusion. Ken:
I hate to point out the obvious, but no country is threatening to invade the United States and kill large numbers of people in the process.

On the other hand, thousands of people are currently being killed and the invasion of other countries (Iran) is threatened – by the United States. Please don’t pretend this has anything to do with “protect[ing] their citizens.” This enormous military spending, which dwarfs that of any possible “enemies,” is an enormous fraud, depriving Americans and the world of the benefits those funds could produce if not put into means of destruction. Those benefits include scientific benefits.

Gary: I don’t think I agree with that pessimistic assessment (after all, many diseases have been cured without a military budget). But, if the trade-off for going to the moon is accepting the violent deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, maybe the moon isn’t so important. I don’t want to draw that conclusion.

]]> By: Astrolink [International Edition] » Blog Archive » Astrosphere for October 4th, 2007 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50862 Astrolink [International Edition] » Blog Archive » Astrosphere for October 4th, 2007 Thu, 04 Oct 2007 18:34:40 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50862 [...] 50th anniversary Sputnik stories are flying fast and furious, everywhere you look. Everyone, has a story about this. I didn't write one for [...] [...] 50th anniversary Sputnik stories are flying fast and furious, everywhere you look. Everyone, has a story about this. I didn't write one for [...]

]]> By: Gary Mcleod http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/comment-page-1/#comment-50860 Gary Mcleod Thu, 04 Oct 2007 17:44:25 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/04/october-4-1957/#comment-50860 Happy birthday, space age! Here's to the next 50 years! Happy birthday, space age! Here’s to the next 50 years!

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