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	<title>Comments on: A bent stalk produces crooked timber</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Marlayna</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/comment-page-1/#comment-51112</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlayna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/#comment-51112</guid>
		<description>Following someone around inside a building isn&#039;t enough to be legally considered stalking, especially when you&#039;re supposed to be there in the first place... but still, legal matters aside, I won&#039;t post any followups since you don&#039;t want me to. It&#039;s your blog. If you really think my posts could be trouble for your blog, feel free to delete everything I&#039;ve posted in this thread and we&#039;ll just forget about it. :)

(And sheesh, I don&#039;t need help. You don&#039;t know me well enough to say things like that.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Following someone around inside a building isn&#8217;t enough to be legally considered stalking, especially when you&#8217;re supposed to be there in the first place&#8230; but still, legal matters aside, I won&#8217;t post any followups since you don&#8217;t want me to. It&#8217;s your blog. If you really think my posts could be trouble for your blog, feel free to delete everything I&#8217;ve posted in this thread and we&#8217;ll just forget about it. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>(And sheesh, I don&#8217;t need help. You don&#8217;t know me well enough to say things like that.)</p>
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		<title>By: The Bad Astronomer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/comment-page-1/#comment-51111</link>
		<dc:creator>The Bad Astronomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/#comment-51111</guid>
		<description>Marlayna, it doesn&#039;t matter what he did to you. If you were in America, what you are doing would be illegal, and if someone did it to me, I would not hesitate to prosecute them.

I ask that you stop posting about your &quot;game&quot; on this board, and I suggest, as others have, that you seek professional help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marlayna, it doesn&#8217;t matter what he did to you. If you were in America, what you are doing would be illegal, and if someone did it to me, I would not hesitate to prosecute them.</p>
<p>I ask that you stop posting about your &#8220;game&#8221; on this board, and I suggest, as others have, that you seek professional help.</p>
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		<title>By: Marlayna</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/comment-page-1/#comment-51110</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlayna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/#comment-51110</guid>
		<description>See, that&#039;s what I mean by &quot;my game, my rules&quot; 8)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, that&#8217;s what I mean by &#8220;my game, my rules&#8221; <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Marlayna</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/comment-page-1/#comment-51109</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlayna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/#comment-51109</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, I&#039;d like to share with you a recent success on that front.

Just today, I bumped on my victim over at the university. I made sure he saw me, checked which class he was in, left for my own class and came back afterwards to have my fun.

I followed him around, not in such an obvious manner that other people would notice, but he sure did. He was with his friends and though he pretended not to pay attention to me, he couldn&#039;t hide his nervousness. Then at some point I didn&#039;t have eye contact, and figured he&#039;d leave. I didn&#039;t go over there; I thought I&#039;d give him the chance to &quot;lose me&quot;, since I had other things to do. So I waited a minute, then I went over, and sure enough he&#039;d grabbed the chance to leave. Oh well, I thought, game over.

So then I went to ask the secretary something, but she hadn&#039;t opened the drapes yet. So I figured I&#039;d spend some time in the computer lab nearby, since it was free use hours. I go in and surprise, there he is! WOO-HOO, round 2! Again, I made sure he saw me, and sat at a computer right opposite. When he left, I followed right behind him. He was with some friends.

Then a problem posed itself. I wasn&#039;t going to follow him home; not that it wouldn&#039;t be fun, but I had better things to do. I didn&#039;t want to turn back either, because that would show I wasn&#039;t that determined. I had to &quot;lose him&quot; somehow...

But then my hapless victim solved my problem himself. At one point, one of his friends came up to me and demanded &quot;angrily&quot;: &quot;Why are you following me?&quot;

What an obvious setup! What a transparent ruse! But it was just what I needed. I stopped there &quot;annoyed&quot;. &quot;I&#039;m not following you, go away&quot; etc etc. My victim was of course walking as fast as he could, and his buddy was buying him the time he needed to get away. After that (and while my victim&#039;s friend was watching) I looked &quot;in dismay&quot; to the direction my victim had left, and &quot;pissed off&quot; I went the other way.

I had to hold in my laughter for a while, but when I had walked a safe distance, I allowed myself to snicker... then laugh, as I went out of sight.

The whole thing made my day.

I&#039;m so proud of myself! I&#039;ve never felt so STRONG in my life. The power to intimidate the one that has hurt your feelings... priceless! I&#039;m telling everyone!

Oh and don&#039;t feel sorry for him. He has done horrible horrible things to me, trust me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, I&#8217;d like to share with you a recent success on that front.</p>
<p>Just today, I bumped on my victim over at the university. I made sure he saw me, checked which class he was in, left for my own class and came back afterwards to have my fun.</p>
<p>I followed him around, not in such an obvious manner that other people would notice, but he sure did. He was with his friends and though he pretended not to pay attention to me, he couldn&#8217;t hide his nervousness. Then at some point I didn&#8217;t have eye contact, and figured he&#8217;d leave. I didn&#8217;t go over there; I thought I&#8217;d give him the chance to &#8220;lose me&#8221;, since I had other things to do. So I waited a minute, then I went over, and sure enough he&#8217;d grabbed the chance to leave. Oh well, I thought, game over.</p>
<p>So then I went to ask the secretary something, but she hadn&#8217;t opened the drapes yet. So I figured I&#8217;d spend some time in the computer lab nearby, since it was free use hours. I go in and surprise, there he is! WOO-HOO, round 2! Again, I made sure he saw me, and sat at a computer right opposite. When he left, I followed right behind him. He was with some friends.</p>
<p>Then a problem posed itself. I wasn&#8217;t going to follow him home; not that it wouldn&#8217;t be fun, but I had better things to do. I didn&#8217;t want to turn back either, because that would show I wasn&#8217;t that determined. I had to &#8220;lose him&#8221; somehow&#8230;</p>
<p>But then my hapless victim solved my problem himself. At one point, one of his friends came up to me and demanded &#8220;angrily&#8221;: &#8220;Why are you following me?&#8221;</p>
<p>What an obvious setup! What a transparent ruse! But it was just what I needed. I stopped there &#8220;annoyed&#8221;. &#8220;I&#8217;m not following you, go away&#8221; etc etc. My victim was of course walking as fast as he could, and his buddy was buying him the time he needed to get away. After that (and while my victim&#8217;s friend was watching) I looked &#8220;in dismay&#8221; to the direction my victim had left, and &#8220;pissed off&#8221; I went the other way.</p>
<p>I had to hold in my laughter for a while, but when I had walked a safe distance, I allowed myself to snicker&#8230; then laugh, as I went out of sight.</p>
<p>The whole thing made my day.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m so proud of myself! I&#8217;ve never felt so STRONG in my life. The power to intimidate the one that has hurt your feelings&#8230; priceless! I&#8217;m telling everyone!</p>
<p>Oh and don&#8217;t feel sorry for him. He has done horrible horrible things to me, trust me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Marlayna</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/comment-page-1/#comment-51108</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlayna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/#comment-51108</guid>
		<description>@David Harmon: First you claim that I &quot;block out&quot; or &quot;project&quot; things, then you admit that the article was wrong after all.

So next time don&#039;t insult people unless you&#039;re sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@David Harmon: First you claim that I &#8220;block out&#8221; or &#8220;project&#8221; things, then you admit that the article was wrong after all.</p>
<p>So next time don&#8217;t insult people unless you&#8217;re sure.</p>
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		<title>By: David Harmon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/comment-page-1/#comment-51107</link>
		<dc:creator>David Harmon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/#comment-51107</guid>
		<description>I note reading the article, that they are considering one particular kind of stalker, obsessed in particular with &quot;contact&quot; and provocation, as the only sort.  That of course is just wrong -- as with other antisocial behaviors, many different &quot;issues&quot; can produce similar types of behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I note reading the article, that they are considering one particular kind of stalker, obsessed in particular with &#8220;contact&#8221; and provocation, as the only sort.  That of course is just wrong &#8212; as with other antisocial behaviors, many different &#8220;issues&#8221; can produce similar types of behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: David Harmon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/comment-page-1/#comment-51106</link>
		<dc:creator>David Harmon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 18:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/10/07/a-bent-stalk-produces-crooked-timber/#comment-51106</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I wonder if itâ€™s possible for a stalker to recognize when theyâ€™re in the â€˜loopâ€™ and untrigger themselves. Iâ€™m betting not.&lt;/i&gt;

Sometimes it is... it depends on both their underlying issues and, sometimes, how far they&#039;ve gone into &quot;crazy space&quot;.  Somebody who&#039;s in a psychotic state, or a projecting obsessive,  is likely to lose all ability for self-examination; there&#039;s not much you can do about that sort besides external restraints.

But some autistic types, or other poorly socialized sorts, can also show stalker-like behaviors.  In these cases, it&#039;s not because of obsession or delusion as such, but because they don&#039;t understand various &quot;rules&quot; of social constraint.  On the other hand, their offenses are going to be much milder and less threatening than the &quot;hardcore&quot; sorts -- stuff like repeated calls, unwanted gifts, or unannounced visits, rather than threats, destruction, or violence.  (Voyeurism or exhibitionism is also a possibility, as they may not be aware how threatening the victim will consider those.)

In those cases, it&#039;s possible for somebody they trust to sit them down and explain &quot;people don&#039;t do that, and if you keep this up, they&#039;ll consider you a crazy person&quot;.  Sometimes even the victim &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; do that, but it&#039;s wiser for them not to bet that a stalker isn&#039;t one of the real crazies.  Better to get someone else, someone who can remain calm and project certainty while staying alert enough to evaluate how the offender&#039;s responding.  (Note that &quot;word salad&quot;, blatantly fantastic delusions, &lt;i&gt;etc.&lt;/i&gt;, are pretty reliable signs of psychosis, so at that point you don&#039;t bother.)

Marlayna would seem to represent one of the most dangerous sorts:  A generally coherent person capable of reality-testing, but with a vindictive obsession.  Unfortunately, such people tend to block out or project anything contradicting their obsession, (&quot;...I don&#039;t see myself anywhere in there...&quot;) so there&#039;s not much that can be done to cure them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I wonder if itâ€™s possible for a stalker to recognize when theyâ€™re in the â€˜loopâ€™ and untrigger themselves. Iâ€™m betting not.</i></p>
<p>Sometimes it is&#8230; it depends on both their underlying issues and, sometimes, how far they&#8217;ve gone into &#8220;crazy space&#8221;.  Somebody who&#8217;s in a psychotic state, or a projecting obsessive,  is likely to lose all ability for self-examination; there&#8217;s not much you can do about that sort besides external restraints.</p>
<p>But some autistic types, or other poorly socialized sorts, can also show stalker-like behaviors.  In these cases, it&#8217;s not because of obsession or delusion as such, but because they don&#8217;t understand various &#8220;rules&#8221; of social constraint.  On the other hand, their offenses are going to be much milder and less threatening than the &#8220;hardcore&#8221; sorts &#8212; stuff like repeated calls, unwanted gifts, or unannounced visits, rather than threats, destruction, or violence.  (Voyeurism or exhibitionism is also a possibility, as they may not be aware how threatening the victim will consider those.)</p>
<p>In those cases, it&#8217;s possible for somebody they trust to sit them down and explain &#8220;people don&#8217;t do that, and if you keep this up, they&#8217;ll consider you a crazy person&#8221;.  Sometimes even the victim <i>could</i> do that, but it&#8217;s wiser for them not to bet that a stalker isn&#8217;t one of the real crazies.  Better to get someone else, someone who can remain calm and project certainty while staying alert enough to evaluate how the offender&#8217;s responding.  (Note that &#8220;word salad&#8221;, blatantly fantastic delusions, <i>etc.</i>, are pretty reliable signs of psychosis, so at that point you don&#8217;t bother.)</p>
<p>Marlayna would seem to represent one of the most dangerous sorts:  A generally coherent person capable of reality-testing, but with a vindictive obsession.  Unfortunately, such people tend to block out or project anything contradicting their obsession, (&#8221;&#8230;I don&#8217;t see myself anywhere in there&#8230;&#8221;) so there&#8217;s not much that can be done to cure them.</p>
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