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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on the Weblog awards</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:30:08 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Weblog awards wobble but they don&#8217;t fall down &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/comment-page-3/#comment-145845</link>
		<dc:creator>Weblog awards wobble but they don&#8217;t fall down &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/#comment-145845</guid>
		<description>[...] are there as well, just like last year. And those of you with long memories will remember much of the ugliness that happened last year, a situation I am loathe to repeat. Also, the sentiments I expounded upon in that linked post are [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] are there as well, just like last year. And those of you with long memories will remember much of the ugliness that happened last year, a situation I am loathe to repeat. Also, the sentiments I expounded upon in that linked post are [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/comment-page-3/#comment-95996</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/#comment-95996</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Bill&lt;/strong&gt;

Six Apart started a working group in February 2006 to improve the Trackback protocol with the goal to eventually have it approved as</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Bill</strong></p>
<p>Six Apart started a working group in February 2006 to improve the Trackback protocol with the goal to eventually have it approved as</p>
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		<title>By: Reck</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/comment-page-3/#comment-95735</link>
		<dc:creator>Reck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/#comment-95735</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;world population graph&lt;/strong&gt;

Very resourceful information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>world population graph</strong></p>
<p>Very resourceful information.</p>
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		<title>By: FerdiEgb</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/comment-page-3/#comment-55139</link>
		<dc:creator>FerdiEgb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 23:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/#comment-55139</guid>
		<description>Again sorry,

The page about &quot;Empirical evidence for a nonlinear effect of galactic cosmic rays on clouds&quot; has been moved to:

http://secamlocal.ex.ac.uk/people/staff/dbs202/publications/2006/harrison2006.pdf

Nothing as fast changing as the Internet...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again sorry,</p>
<p>The page about &#8220;Empirical evidence for a nonlinear effect of galactic cosmic rays on clouds&#8221; has been moved to:</p>
<p><a href="http://secamlocal.ex.ac.uk/people/staff/dbs202/publications/2006/harrison2006.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://secamlocal.ex.ac.uk/people/staff/dbs202/publications/2006/harrison2006.pdf</a></p>
<p>Nothing as fast changing as the Internet&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: FerdiEgb</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/comment-page-3/#comment-55138</link>
		<dc:creator>FerdiEgb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 13:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/#comment-55138</guid>
		<description>Sorry, forgot to close the quote from Svesnmark...
Would be nice to have a preview...

Ferdinand</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, forgot to close the quote from Svesnmark&#8230;<br />
Would be nice to have a preview&#8230;</p>
<p>Ferdinand</p>
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		<title>By: FerdiEgb</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/comment-page-3/#comment-55137</link>
		<dc:creator>FerdiEgb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 13:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/#comment-55137</guid>
		<description>Robin,

The response of Shaviv, Svensmark and others are direct critiques of the original Lockwood and Frohlich article. That is a kind of real peer review (don&#039;t know who did the original peer review), again, as the best peer review is by competing scientists. The most important point is that L&amp;F used a different satellite composite than the original authors of the satellite software, which caused a lot of discussion. And important too is that a third (neutral) party, the Belgian KMI, has a similar conclusion as the ACRIM specialists, thus not confirming the L&amp;F findings.

About Svensmark: please read the response of Svensmark... He was attacked by Peter Laut about his galactic cosmic rays (GCR) hypothesis:
soleil_031223_Laut_Solar_activity_climate_hypotheses.pdf

Peter Laut, co-author of the article against GCR, has something personal against solar scientists and even discusses graphs he makes himself, but says that solar scientists have made them!

From: http://www.dsri.dk/getfile.php3?id=290

&lt;blockquote&gt;Then DL go on claiming that Lassen and Friis-Christensen (2000) (LFC) provided an update of their original paper. This is true, but it is certainly not the figure that DL show in their Fig. 1b! DL postulate that the figure is â€œan update as presented by LFCâ€ and state that â€œthey [LFC] arrive at a different curve (Figure 1 b)â€. The figure is, however, actually produced by Laut himself (!) (see Laut (2003)), which makes the subsequent discussion by DL on what LFC â€œdraw special attention toâ€ in the figure and whether the curve â€œexhibits â€¦ the claimed agreementâ€ an almost surreal experience to read.

More in-depth reaction: http://tinyurl.com/24o93o

I am not fully convinced of the GCR hypothesis, but there is some empirical evidence:
http://www.met.rdg.ac.uk/cag/publications/2006/harrison2006.pdf

Anyway, whatever the pathway is, there is a clear influence of solar cycles on climate.

About climate sensitivity: Arrhenius was wrong, see:
http://home.casema.nl/errenwijlens/co2/arrhrev.htm

The sensitivity of 3 K for 2xCO2 is far from settled, and is mainly what current climate programs incorporate. There are different estimates for climate sensitivity, see: http://home.casema.nl/errenwijlens/co2/howmuch.htm

The base warming from CO2 doubling is less than 1 K, 1.2 K including water vapor feedback. Other feedbacks (especially clouds and aerosols) are very unsure, even their signs...

Climate scientists like Hansen based the 3 K/2xCO2 on the ice ages, as he assumes that without CO2 feedback, the temperature change would be smaller. But there is no measurable CO2 feedback, neither during the end of the Eemian (the previous interglacial), nor at the LGM-Holocene transition. See:
http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/eemian.html and
http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/klim_img/epica5.gif
The latter graph with thanks to AndrÃ© van den Berg.

There is only one temperature record (as far as reliable) for the past century. If natural variability was more important, then the sensitivity for CO2 &lt;b&gt;must&lt;/b&gt; be lower, or one can not reproduce the temperature record of the previous century without overshoot. That implies a lower sensitivity for CO2 than for other (natural) forcings. And that is exactly the discussion between Hansen/Mann/Schmidt at one side and a lot of European climate specialists at the other side...&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin,</p>
<p>The response of Shaviv, Svensmark and others are direct critiques of the original Lockwood and Frohlich article. That is a kind of real peer review (don&#8217;t know who did the original peer review), again, as the best peer review is by competing scientists. The most important point is that L&amp;F used a different satellite composite than the original authors of the satellite software, which caused a lot of discussion. And important too is that a third (neutral) party, the Belgian KMI, has a similar conclusion as the ACRIM specialists, thus not confirming the L&amp;F findings.</p>
<p>About Svensmark: please read the response of Svensmark&#8230; He was attacked by Peter Laut about his galactic cosmic rays (GCR) hypothesis:<br />
soleil_031223_Laut_Solar_activity_climate_hypotheses.pdf</p>
<p>Peter Laut, co-author of the article against GCR, has something personal against solar scientists and even discusses graphs he makes himself, but says that solar scientists have made them!</p>
<p>From: <a href="http://www.dsri.dk/getfile.php3?id=290" rel="nofollow">http://www.dsri.dk/getfile.php3?id=290</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Then DL go on claiming that Lassen and Friis-Christensen (2000) (LFC) provided an update of their original paper. This is true, but it is certainly not the figure that DL show in their Fig. 1b! DL postulate that the figure is â€œan update as presented by LFCâ€ and state that â€œthey [LFC] arrive at a different curve (Figure 1 b)â€. The figure is, however, actually produced by Laut himself (!) (see Laut (2003)), which makes the subsequent discussion by DL on what LFC â€œdraw special attention toâ€ in the figure and whether the curve â€œexhibits â€¦ the claimed agreementâ€ an almost surreal experience to read.</p>
<p>More in-depth reaction: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/24o93o" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/24o93o</a></p>
<p>I am not fully convinced of the GCR hypothesis, but there is some empirical evidence:<br />
<a href="http://www.met.rdg.ac.uk/cag/publications/2006/harrison2006.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.met.rdg.ac.uk/cag/publications/2006/harrison2006.pdf</a></p>
<p>Anyway, whatever the pathway is, there is a clear influence of solar cycles on climate.</p>
<p>About climate sensitivity: Arrhenius was wrong, see:<br />
<a href="http://home.casema.nl/errenwijlens/co2/arrhrev.htm" rel="nofollow">http://home.casema.nl/errenwijlens/co2/arrhrev.htm</a></p>
<p>The sensitivity of 3 K for 2xCO2 is far from settled, and is mainly what current climate programs incorporate. There are different estimates for climate sensitivity, see: <a href="http://home.casema.nl/errenwijlens/co2/howmuch.htm" rel="nofollow">http://home.casema.nl/errenwijlens/co2/howmuch.htm</a></p>
<p>The base warming from CO2 doubling is less than 1 K, 1.2 K including water vapor feedback. Other feedbacks (especially clouds and aerosols) are very unsure, even their signs&#8230;</p>
<p>Climate scientists like Hansen based the 3 K/2xCO2 on the ice ages, as he assumes that without CO2 feedback, the temperature change would be smaller. But there is no measurable CO2 feedback, neither during the end of the Eemian (the previous interglacial), nor at the LGM-Holocene transition. See:<br />
<a href="http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/eemian.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/eemian.html</a> and<br />
<a href="http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/klim_img/epica5.gif" rel="nofollow">http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/klim_img/epica5.gif</a><br />
The latter graph with thanks to AndrÃ© van den Berg.</p>
<p>There is only one temperature record (as far as reliable) for the past century. If natural variability was more important, then the sensitivity for CO2 <b>must</b> be lower, or one can not reproduce the temperature record of the previous century without overshoot. That implies a lower sensitivity for CO2 than for other (natural) forcings. And that is exactly the discussion between Hansen/Mann/Schmidt at one side and a lot of European climate specialists at the other side&#8230;</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Robin Levett</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/comment-page-3/#comment-55136</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Levett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 03:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/11/08/thoughts-on-the-weblog-awards/#comment-55136</guid>
		<description>FerdiEgb:

Just a couple of quick responses for now - time for bed after - I&#039;ll try to come back again tomorrow.

You and your colleagues argue that Climate Audit does a valuable job because even peer-revised science requires audit of the figures?  And then you rely upon Svensmark (look at the history of his &quot;solar causes warming&quot; papers) - writing in a non-peer reviewed article?  It is to laugh.

You&#039;ve drawn the wrong conclusion.  Given that we have a reasonable fix on the science which produces climate sensitivities to CO2 in the region of 3K (starting with Arrhenius at 6K et seq), the implication of recent warming not resulting mostly from CO2 is that we&#039;ve got a lot more to come than we thought.  That wouldn&#039;t be comforting, if it were true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FerdiEgb:</p>
<p>Just a couple of quick responses for now &#8211; time for bed after &#8211; I&#8217;ll try to come back again tomorrow.</p>
<p>You and your colleagues argue that Climate Audit does a valuable job because even peer-revised science requires audit of the figures?  And then you rely upon Svensmark (look at the history of his &#8220;solar causes warming&#8221; papers) &#8211; writing in a non-peer reviewed article?  It is to laugh.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve drawn the wrong conclusion.  Given that we have a reasonable fix on the science which produces climate sensitivities to CO2 in the region of 3K (starting with Arrhenius at 6K et seq), the implication of recent warming not resulting mostly from CO2 is that we&#8217;ve got a lot more to come than we thought.  That wouldn&#8217;t be comforting, if it were true.</p>
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