Comments on: (some of) China gets it http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/ I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:09:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Mick Hyde http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57959 Mick Hyde Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:21:32 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57959 Does this mean that the Japanesse pics are fake as well?... give us a break! Does this mean that the Japanesse pics are fake as well?… give us a break!

]]> By: Anthony Ayiomamitis http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57958 Anthony Ayiomamitis Tue, 04 Dec 2007 21:54:15 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57958 PS. The small crater in the bottom right corner of the Chinese photo is also not in the Clementine photo which further reinforces the differing field of view as well as center of the photo. PS. The small crater in the bottom right corner of the Chinese photo is also not in the Clementine photo which further reinforces the differing field of view as well as center of the photo.

]]> By: Anthony Ayiomamitis http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57957 Anthony Ayiomamitis Tue, 04 Dec 2007 21:50:12 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57957 Folks, The field of view between the two photos is slightly different. In fact, the Chinese photo has information (ie. craterlets) which are not within the field of view of the Clementine photo. Also, the "missing crater" is not there due to the fact it is not within the field of view. Finally and due to lighting, there are many examples of greater detail within the Chinese photo than the Clementine photo (ex. the rim of the crater to the immediate right of Gill). For the Chinese photo to be a "clone" of the Clementine photo, I would expect the cloned result to have the same or a smaller field of view. The fact that the Chinese photo has information which is not available in the Clementine photo (ex. see bottom ledt corner as well as the large crater just to the north of the bottom left corner) excludes any sort of cloning of this particular Clementine photo. Anthony. Folks,

The field of view between the two photos is slightly different. In fact, the Chinese photo has information (ie. craterlets) which are not within the field of view of the Clementine photo. Also, the “missing crater” is not there due to the fact it is not within the field of view. Finally and due to lighting, there are many examples of greater detail within the Chinese photo than the Clementine photo (ex. the rim of the crater to the immediate right of Gill).

For the Chinese photo to be a “clone” of the Clementine photo, I would expect the cloned result to have the same or a smaller field of view. The fact that the Chinese photo has information which is not available in the Clementine photo (ex. see bottom ledt corner as well as the large crater just to the north of the bottom left corner) excludes any sort of cloning of this particular Clementine photo.

Anthony.

]]> By: Michael Lonergan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57956 Michael Lonergan Tue, 04 Dec 2007 21:34:29 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57956 To Centipede: Just make it look like there's something actually there! To Centipede:

Just make it look like there’s something actually there!

]]> By: David http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57955 David Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:16:04 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57955 I must admit, I'm impressed with Chinese technology. Who'd have thought you could detect boneheads on Earth using a lunar orbiter? I must admit, I’m impressed with Chinese technology. Who’d have thought you could detect boneheads on Earth using a lunar orbiter?

]]> By: baryogenesis http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57952 baryogenesis Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:59:45 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57952 Re Spiegel photos, at a quick glance it appears that the crater in the upper right in the b+w is missing. It is simply not in the picture but the angle seems to stretch it outside. Anyway this could be the problem if Spiegel is reporting what the Chinese denialists are reporting accurately... arrrgh! Re Spiegel photos, at a quick glance it appears that the crater in the upper right in the b+w is missing. It is simply not in the picture but the angle seems to stretch it outside. Anyway this could be the problem if Spiegel is reporting what the Chinese denialists are reporting accurately… arrrgh!

]]> By: The Centipede http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57954 The Centipede Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:26:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57954 > Yes, but has it imaged the alien bases and artificial structures? Where’s Richard Hoagland when we need him? Bah! Who needs Hoggie for anything, when one has the power of imagination? Give me ten minutes with Photochop when I get home today. > Yes, but has it imaged the alien bases and artificial structures? Where’s Richard Hoagland when we need him?

Bah! Who needs Hoggie for anything, when one has the power of imagination?

Give me ten minutes with Photochop when I get home today.

]]> By: Michelle http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57953 Michelle Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:49:16 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57953 I don't see any craters missing in the pictures... I don’t see any craters missing in the pictures…

]]> By: The Bad Astronomer http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57951 The Bad Astronomer Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:27:37 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57951 Hmmm, those Spiegel images are interesting. The sunlight direction changes, which makes some craters less obvious, others more obvious. This may have something to do with it. Hmmm, those Spiegel images are interesting. The sunlight direction changes, which makes some craters less obvious, others more obvious. This may have something to do with it.

]]> By: Jack Hagerty http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57950 Jack Hagerty Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:27:31 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57950 Kullat Nunu says: "Clementine conducted a global lunar surface mapping in the early ‘90 (filling last white regions of the lunar map!) so it would be odd if it had not imaged the same region" Being the first (and so far, only) military mission to the moon, Clementine was in polar orbit, naturally. Nobody does photo reconnaissance like the Air Force! - Jack Kullat Nunu says: “Clementine conducted a global lunar surface mapping in the early ‘90 (filling last white regions of the lunar map!) so it would be odd if it had not imaged the same region”

Being the first (and so far, only) military mission to the moon, Clementine was in polar orbit, naturally. Nobody does photo reconnaissance like the Air Force!

- Jack

]]> By: Michael http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57949 Michael Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:03:57 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57949 Yes, but has it imaged the alien bases and artificial structures? Where's Richard Hoagland when we need him? Yes, but has it imaged the alien bases and artificial structures? Where’s Richard Hoagland when we need him?

]]> By: Crux Australis http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57948 Crux Australis Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:54:31 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57948 Obviously the Moon has rotated through about 10 degrees between those photos :-) Obviously the Moon has rotated through about 10 degrees between those photos :-)

]]> By: The Centipede http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57947 The Centipede Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:37:10 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57947 I think the tank crews have it hard enough, trying to unclog their tanks from the intertubes. Asking them to do it with their Wiis will just cause nasty bruising. Oddly enough, debates here routinely remind me of "The Omega Glory," for more reasons than one. I think the tank crews have it hard enough, trying to unclog their tanks from the intertubes. Asking them to do it with their Wiis will just cause nasty bruising.

Oddly enough, debates here routinely remind me of “The Omega Glory,” for more reasons than one.

]]> By: Kullat Nunu http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57946 Kullat Nunu Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:35:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57946 <i>The german Spiegel has these two photos, but nothing else...</i> The left one is obviously from Clementine, which photographed the Moon's surface in color. The right one cannot be a b/w version of it because the lighting is different. Clementine conducted a global lunar surface mapping in the early '90 (filling last white regions of the lunar map!) so it would be odd if it had not imaged the same region. The german Spiegel has these two photos, but nothing else…

The left one is obviously from Clementine, which photographed the Moon’s surface in color. The right one cannot be a b/w version of it because the lighting is different. Clementine conducted a global lunar surface mapping in the early ’90 (filling last white regions of the lunar map!) so it would be odd if it had not imaged the same region.

]]> By: aiabx http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57945 aiabx Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:04:43 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57945 <i>I read that initially as “the Wii of the People”. </i> What you were probably thinking of is "Wii the People", the worship words of the Yangs in Star Trek - The Omega Glory Video Game. I read that initially as “the Wii of the People”.

What you were probably thinking of is “Wii the People”, the worship words of the Yangs in Star Trek – The Omega Glory Video Game.

]]> By: Markus Mencke http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57944 Markus Mencke Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:00:32 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57944 The german Spiegel has these two photos, but nothing else: http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/weltall/0,1518,grossbild-1036324-521006,00.html The german Spiegel has these two photos, but nothing else:

http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/weltall/0,1518,grossbild-1036324-521006,00.html

]]> By: Hairy Doctor Professor http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57943 Hairy Doctor Professor Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:48:16 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57943 <i>...we have to clear them with the Will of the People...</i> I read that initially as "the Wii of the People". I'm not sure how to interpret that -- some sort of geeky Freudian slip, or maybe just that I need to put on my reading glasses. There's bound to be a good joke in there somewhere, however. Something about world peace through video games... …we have to clear them with the Will of the People…

I read that initially as “the Wii of the People”. I’m not sure how to interpret that — some sort of geeky Freudian slip, or maybe just that I need to put on my reading glasses. There’s bound to be a good joke in there somewhere, however. Something about world peace through video games…

]]> By: The Centipede http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57942 The Centipede Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:14:54 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57942 > Careful now Chinese Moon Hoaxers. A doubting attitude like that could get you a new job as a speed bump for tanks. As soon as we figure out how to drive them through the intertubes. Because the intertubes aren't like a big truck we can dump tanks on, it's more like a series of tubes we have to drive tanks through, but the tubes get clogged easily by tanks, and then we have to clear them with the Will of the People (i.e. the crew has to get out and push, and when we're talking a 50-ton tank, that doesn't work so well)... > Careful now Chinese Moon Hoaxers. A doubting attitude like that could get you a new job as a speed bump for tanks.

As soon as we figure out how to drive them through the intertubes. Because the intertubes aren’t like a big truck we can dump tanks on, it’s more like a series of tubes we have to drive tanks through, but the tubes get clogged easily by tanks, and then we have to clear them with the Will of the People (i.e. the crew has to get out and push, and when we’re talking a 50-ton tank, that doesn’t work so well)…

]]> By: Ken Clark http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57941 Ken Clark Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:12:26 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57941 You mean the Chinese haven't yet been to the Moon? I thought I saw some pictures.... You mean the Chinese haven’t yet been to the Moon? I thought I saw some pictures….

]]> By: Thomas Siefert http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57940 Thomas Siefert Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:06:42 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57940 Mooncakes are people! Mooncakes are people!

]]> By: Bad Albert http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57939 Bad Albert Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:03:58 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57939 Careful now Chinese Moon Hoaxers. A doubting attitude like that could get you a new job as a speed bump for tanks. Careful now Chinese Moon Hoaxers. A doubting attitude like that could get you a new job as a speed bump for tanks.

]]> By: The Centipede http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/comment-page-1/#comment-57938 The Centipede Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:40:31 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/03/some-of-china-gets-it/#comment-57938 That some people inside China doubt China's space capabilities doesn't surprise me. Recall that China, until relatively recently, was a Maoist/Stalinist state that lied to its people so often about so many things that it made the United States seem like the mythical George Washington when it came to matters of veracity. China's still not quite gotten over that phase (although it's been quietly moving away from it for years, even if pointing out ideological differences is answered with a muttered "we don't talk about it to outsiders"), and so it's not too unreasonable for there to be doubters and denialists and... heh... Chinese Moon Hoaxers. That some people inside China doubt China’s space capabilities doesn’t surprise me. Recall that China, until relatively recently, was a Maoist/Stalinist state that lied to its people so often about so many things that it made the United States seem like the mythical George Washington when it came to matters of veracity. China’s still not quite gotten over that phase (although it’s been quietly moving away from it for years, even if pointing out ideological differences is answered with a muttered “we don’t talk about it to outsiders”), and so it’s not too unreasonable for there to be doubters and denialists and… heh… Chinese Moon Hoaxers.

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