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	<title>Comments on: Silly creationists, Universities are for scientists</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Scotty Mac</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/comment-page-2/#comment-169879</link>
		<dc:creator>Scotty Mac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 17:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/#comment-169879</guid>
		<description>&quot;which has been legally ruled to be not only religion, but actually just warmed-over creationism...You can interpret that to mean that ID is wrong, wrong, wrong.&quot; Just because something is legally ruled doesn&#039;t mean that is the way the universe runs. And thank goodness. Such dogmatic thinking (you see what I did? I called science essentially another religion that requires just as much faith as any other religion) is ultimately harmful to true truth seekers. If you think logically, you know a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what there is to know in the universe, so an absolute statement that this is not science or it did not happen this way, etc..., is quite ridiculous because in fact you do not know. I&#039;m a big enough man to admit I don&#039;t know how things happened, but I can tell you what I believe happened and am open to other theories. It sounds as though you are closed to any theories that involve God, gods, etc... And closing yourself off to theories without absolute proof that refutes said theories is antithetical to scientific reasoning. Until God is disproved scientifically (which realistlically will never happen) or non-intelligent design macro evolution (i.e. random chance and laws of physics) is absolutely proved, a rational person would leave open the possibility that it could be either and that maybe, just maybe, he or she is wrong about certain beliefs. I leave that possibility open. Do you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;which has been legally ruled to be not only religion, but actually just warmed-over creationism&#8230;You can interpret that to mean that ID is wrong, wrong, wrong.&#8221; Just because something is legally ruled doesn&#8217;t mean that is the way the universe runs. And thank goodness. Such dogmatic thinking (you see what I did? I called science essentially another religion that requires just as much faith as any other religion) is ultimately harmful to true truth seekers. If you think logically, you know a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of what there is to know in the universe, so an absolute statement that this is not science or it did not happen this way, etc&#8230;, is quite ridiculous because in fact you do not know. I&#8217;m a big enough man to admit I don&#8217;t know how things happened, but I can tell you what I believe happened and am open to other theories. It sounds as though you are closed to any theories that involve God, gods, etc&#8230; And closing yourself off to theories without absolute proof that refutes said theories is antithetical to scientific reasoning. Until God is disproved scientifically (which realistlically will never happen) or non-intelligent design macro evolution (i.e. random chance and laws of physics) is absolutely proved, a rational person would leave open the possibility that it could be either and that maybe, just maybe, he or she is wrong about certain beliefs. I leave that possibility open. Do you?</p>
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		<title>By: The Discovery Institute has no shame &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/comment-page-2/#comment-169345</link>
		<dc:creator>The Discovery Institute has no shame &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/#comment-169345</guid>
		<description>[...] Intelligent Design, but are in fact just trying to impose their religious views on everyone else. This has been so well-documented &#8212; kinda like evolution and the fact that the Earth is billions of years old &#8212; that it [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Intelligent Design, but are in fact just trying to impose their religious views on everyone else. This has been so well-documented &#8212; kinda like evolution and the fact that the Earth is billions of years old &#8212; that it [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Darth Robo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/comment-page-2/#comment-58137</link>
		<dc:creator>Darth Robo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 12:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/#comment-58137</guid>
		<description>&gt;That may be, but it has nothing to do with his ID book, which is about astronomy and ID.


And since cosmological ID is about as provable as biological ID, it still means it&#039;s a load of old baloney, right Bob?  ID is bunk whichever way you look at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;That may be, but it has nothing to do with his ID book, which is about astronomy and ID.</p>
<p>And since cosmological ID is about as provable as biological ID, it still means it&#8217;s a load of old baloney, right Bob?  ID is bunk whichever way you look at it.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Craig</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/comment-page-2/#comment-58136</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/#comment-58136</guid>
		<description>Looking at the Des Moines Register article you linked to, I noted the following quote:

&quot;Gonzalez&#039;s backers have insisted that he lost out on tenure, and will lose his job at the end of the school year, because of his religious beliefs and his advocacy for intelligent design.&quot;

Not that I support Gonzalez or ID in the least, but the Disco Institute does not appear to be explicitly identified here as &quot;Gonzalez&#039;s backers,&quot; as you seem to be indicating in your post.  Perhaps I may have missed it elsewhere in the article.  I certainly don&#039;t doubt the connection myself, but it doesn&#039;t look like we can use this particular Register article as rock-solid proof of that it exists in the Gonzalez case.

Keith said that free speech &quot;might be relevant in tenure proceedings,&quot; and I tend to agree.  It&#039;s not enough to say that &quot;obviously&quot; free speech isn&#039;t what&#039;s being targeted; we need the Institute to state in no uncertain terms that Gonzalez&#039;s religious freedom is being trampled.  Experience tells me that they are quite capable of putting this foot in their mouths with grand efficiency...

As for Kent Hovind and the flying spaghetti monster, I&#039;d just like to point out that the ID assault on science is no game.  Let&#039;s put the toys away and get serious here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking at the Des Moines Register article you linked to, I noted the following quote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Gonzalez&#8217;s backers have insisted that he lost out on tenure, and will lose his job at the end of the school year, because of his religious beliefs and his advocacy for intelligent design.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not that I support Gonzalez or ID in the least, but the Disco Institute does not appear to be explicitly identified here as &#8220;Gonzalez&#8217;s backers,&#8221; as you seem to be indicating in your post.  Perhaps I may have missed it elsewhere in the article.  I certainly don&#8217;t doubt the connection myself, but it doesn&#8217;t look like we can use this particular Register article as rock-solid proof of that it exists in the Gonzalez case.</p>
<p>Keith said that free speech &#8220;might be relevant in tenure proceedings,&#8221; and I tend to agree.  It&#8217;s not enough to say that &#8220;obviously&#8221; free speech isn&#8217;t what&#8217;s being targeted; we need the Institute to state in no uncertain terms that Gonzalez&#8217;s religious freedom is being trampled.  Experience tells me that they are quite capable of putting this foot in their mouths with grand efficiency&#8230;</p>
<p>As for Kent Hovind and the flying spaghetti monster, I&#8217;d just like to point out that the ID assault on science is no game.  Let&#8217;s put the toys away and get serious here.</p>
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		<title>By: Coin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/comment-page-2/#comment-58135</link>
		<dc:creator>Coin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/#comment-58135</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;One is that they are too dumb to know when they have lost &lt;b&gt;(or they simply claim victory when they lose)&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

I think it&#039;s mostly the second thing here-- that never admitting loss is an intentional strategy for mitigating the poor PR of having lost. The thing is though, if the media lets them get away with it, was it really all that dumb?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>One is that they are too dumb to know when they have lost <b>(or they simply claim victory when they lose)</b></i></p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s mostly the second thing here&#8211; that never admitting loss is an intentional strategy for mitigating the poor PR of having lost. The thing is though, if the media lets them get away with it, was it really all that dumb?</p>
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		<title>By: The Centipede</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/comment-page-2/#comment-58134</link>
		<dc:creator>The Centipede</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/#comment-58134</guid>
		<description>&gt; Maybe he should try for tenure at Bob Jones University or similar.

Maybe... whatsitsbucket... Patriot University or whatever it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Maybe he should try for tenure at Bob Jones University or similar.</p>
<p>Maybe&#8230; whatsitsbucket&#8230; Patriot University or whatever it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Megan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/comment-page-2/#comment-58133</link>
		<dc:creator>Megan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2007/12/04/silly-creationists-universities-are-for-scientists/#comment-58133</guid>
		<description>How lame. Professors get denied tenure for so many reasons -- and it&#039;s a university&#039;s right to do so. Maybe he should try for tenure at Bob Jones University or similar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How lame. Professors get denied tenure for so many reasons &#8212; and it&#8217;s a university&#8217;s right to do so. Maybe he should try for tenure at Bob Jones University or similar.</p>
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