MORE OF THE SAME!!!!

But that’s not on-topic.

Astronomy, please?

I don’t know other peoples thoughts on him, but I have found Walid Shoebat interesting. ( http://www.shoebat.com/ ) I like this quote, “Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”

[[Given up Gaza? Yeah right, that explains why Israel still doesn’t allow Gazan civilians incl. hospitals their electricity, water, has them seighed in and blockaded and denies them full political sovereignty, fishing rights, has regular incursion ]]

Stevo, Israel is blockading and incursing into Gaza because Gaza is firing explosive-warhead rockets into Israel and killing Israeli citizens. If Mexican border villages were pouring rocket fire into US border villages and the Mexican government didn’t do anything about it, we’d send in troops after the perpetrators, even if the President of the US was Dennis Kucinich. If the Gazans want Israel out, they can stop the rocket fire.

Well you have your style of discourse and I have mine.

But this QD :

“This is where the whole “loony left” stereotype came from. You need to present reasoned arguments and facts as accurately and *maturely* as possible. This hyperventilating style of “Argh! Bush-Cheney-Haliburton-Masonic-Nazis on the Mooooooooon” approach really, really, really does NOT work, guys.”

Is a straw man characature. I ‘ve never said Bush _Cheney-Halliburton are Masomic Nazi’s ontheMoon .. I wish they were as then they’d be a lot further away and w/o oxygen supply & suits they’d be dead.

Masons have nothing to do with it. No connection at all.

The Jewish-Israeli lobby and Jewish & Apocalyptic-Evangelical XN type extremists however have a significant real influence that is well known if rarely openly stated. (see for example : Antony Loewenstein’s text “My Israel Question”, Melbourne University Press, 2007,1st publ. 2006 or a whole numvberofbooks byNaM Chomsky perhaps tehgretaest Jewish-American intellectual.)

I think the “loony left stereotype” actually comes from the Lunatic right (or mor eaccuraetly WRONG sideof Amercian politics ie. tehRepublicans &Neo-copnservatives.)

Truth is, in terms of Western democracies the USA is politically severely unbalanced. Ever since McCarthy it has essentially had a right-wing – the Democtratic party & an extreme Right-wing party – The Republicans with nothing much on the left side of politics at all.

The US has always been a lot more right wing than most European and Anglo-phone nations (eg. Australia, NZ, Canada, Falklands, etc ..) Mostof them started better than with a bunch of Puritannical ..well ..Puritans! Most of them have evolved without huge Civil wars and withoutr strong fundamentalist Chritsian influences eesp,.. post-war. Socialist or socialism is not a term of abuse in most of these places. Quite frankly, as democracies and politcial systems and structures go America is not a great example for the West but lies at the far end of the political spectrum with nations such as Eire (or Sth Ireland!), New Zealand and the Netherlands being far superior models to emulate – although this is naturally a subjective judgement!

From an internat’l POV much of American politcis is sen as absurdly rightwing and ist debates are politcially biased towrads the farRight – so if I sound too “left wing” maybe its because you’re all sitting too far in the other direction!

Now then :

“— 1) Clinton gets a blow job & faces impeachment …

QD : Clinton lied under oath and *was* impeached, but acquitted.”

SR (me) : Over a blow job. Yes, he lied but what he lied about matters too don’t you think? & the consequences of that lie are so much less – emotional harm and not mass slaughter and massive damage to the US reputation and oh yes, the destruction of an entire nation …

QD : “Disclaimer: I opposed the impeachment.”

Good for you. So did almost everyone not following or part of the lunatic “right”.

QD: “— 2) Saudi and Yemeni based terrorists attack Amercia on the 11th September 2001 … But Iraq gets invaded and Iran threatened???

No, that was Afghanistan. Bush’s pretense about Iraq was that they had WMDs and would give them to Al-Qaeda. The linking of Iraq to 9/11 was more media generated than anything. The Bush team played on that pre-existing meme to help justify the attack on Iraq.”

SR : Ok it _was_ Afghanistan too – & then Iraq. The White House and the media – esp. as I’ve noted the Jewish-owned & Neo-con biased papers – worked together to spread the false slur that Saddam was linked with Al Quaida. Nasty dictator though he was – Saddam just wasn’t responsible at all for 9-11. So my point stands : Osmaa BinLaden and most of his terrorists were from Saudi Arabia or Yemen NOT Iraq or Iran – so why blame & attack the wrong places? Why wage a needless by definition unwinnable “War against Terror” (which is an emotion – not a nation or group – duh!) instead of a specific “War on Al-Quaida”?? The latter would have had everyone’s support and probably been long over -in a US victory – by now …

QD: “Disclaimer: I opposed going into Iraq.”

SR : Again, good for you and so did I. I was actually arrested – charges later dropped, as I was just peacefully protesting like everyone else and grabbed from the crowd for no reason – at an anti-war rally …

QD : Note: this is from someone who probably agrees with you on many things, but you need to back off the hyperbole. No one is “shrugging their shoulders” as you suggest. Most people just don’t know what to do. Take up arms? I think those days are long gone for us.”

SR : What to do? Well take a bit stronger and more vocal action forstarters. Sobad is this Bush administratyionIreallythat that far from hyperbole much of what’s directedat it is actuallyunderstatement ..

Take up arms? No, take up pens and keyboards and placards at protests and take a stand, let people know – esp. the spineless Democratic opposition that they simply MUST do something firm – end the war & impeach Bush!

QD : And when you slant the facts, do you even recognize you are guilty of the same propaganda techniques of those you oppose?

SR : Actually I don’t because I’m not. What soudns like hyperbole is actaully accurate and okay some adjectives may soudn strong but then so’s the reality. As you put it :

“The truth is the truth.”

Truth here is taht yes, Bush really is awar criminal and yes tehNeo-conservatiev Jewish-Isreali lobby has played a nasty role in conspiring to get us into the mess we’re in now.

I have not said one thing that is not true.

(There’s been a few typos sure, but nothing false. )

Y’all can try to prove otherwise – but if you can … I’ll be very surprised

“Ken S, I think I am perhaps the only person posting on this thread who has actually been tortured.”

Do you mind elaborating on that please?

I) I thought abusing others was considered wrong here. Ad hominan.

II) Hardly. I’m saner than a lot of people out there – believe me. I mean just look at a certain President who believed God told him to invade a nation that posed no threat to his nation for well itturns out no good reason & who also tries to fight the reality of science and evolution .. ?

III) Is what I’m saying really that “deeply nuts” or just consistent & based on that good ethical & logical law of :

“good for goose = good for gander?”

Seriously, compare the number of Iraqis killed by Saddam and the no. killed in Bush’es avoidable, catastrophic war. Its my strong suspicion that Bush the Mad has killed more than Saddam – although, of course, the US military machine has tried to deny the world the actual death toll.
(& that in itself says a lot …)

Do I think the US really will execute Bush Jr?
Sadly, I very much doubt it.
Do I think Bush the Lesser deserves the death sentence for his illegal actions?
Induitably, definitely, and beyond any skerrick of a doubt!