Comments on: NASA beams Beatles into deep space

By: Old Rockin' Dave

Old Rockin' Dave — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:19:34 +0000

Years ago there was a sketch on Saturday Night Live when “psychic” Steve Martin showed the next cover of Time Magazine, revealing that the Voyager record had been discovered and a message sent proving the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. It consisted of just four words: “Send more Chuck Berry.”

By: Dr. Alexander Zaitsev

Dr. Alexander Zaitsev — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:28:36 +0000

This NASA Beatles transmission is pseudo-scientific — in my paper

[url=http://www.cplire.ru/html/ra&sr/irm/limitations.html]Limitations on Volume of Interstellar Radio Messages[/url]

was shown that real-time digital transmission of audio is not possible:

>If we assume that They are situated in the neighbourhood at a distance
> of 70 light years from us and have the same, or even a little more
>sensitive, SETI receivers, like to our future ATA (Allen Telescope Array)
>or SKA (Square Kilometer Array), then daily volumes of IRMs, which we
>can transmit from ART, GSSR, and EPR toward given celestial target are
> equal 75, 200, and 20 kilobits for ATA-like receiver, or 7.5, 20, and 2
>megabits for SKA-like receiver, respectively. And this volume is in
>inverse proportional dependence from squared distance. Consequently,
>we should aspire to be laconic now in our IRM compositions.

By: Daniel Fischer

Daniel Fischer — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:39:26 +0000

I've done some research on the five(!) anniversaries that this 'Active SETI' broadcast is meant to celebrate - the hardest thing was to find out why the Deep Space Network thinks it's only 45 years old when it was busy tracking spacecraft since 1958. Eventually I mailed the author of the NASA press release - and got an answer back within minutes, and that on a Sunday! Whoever wants to "play along" tonight can make use of the various YouTube incarnations of "Across the Universe" I'm linking to.

By: John W

John W — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 17:26:26 +0000

“If you point to something that’s not near the poles, then you’re spraying the music around whatever fraction of a 360-degree circle it takes to finish the song, so no hypothetical listener gets very much of it, and all the different broadcasters are pointing different directions.”

They *do* have tracking on the DSN. How else to they talk to those spacecraft in the ecliptic (not so far from th equatorial plane)?

By: Argyl

Argyl — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 15:29:55 +0000

Or let’s just send the song “Shipwrecked Frontier Pioneer” by the avant garde progessive metal band Arcturus toward Arcturus.

By: Argyl

Argyl — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 15:21:25 +0000

There is very little chance (as close to zero as I can imagine) of any intelligent being intercepting and recording this particular message (or any directed single radio message) and ever decoding whichever coding / modulation was used, to reproduce the sound waves (which require of course similar atmospheric pressure and loudspeaker technology). Recorded music is way too complex anyway to be recognized as a message.

SETI should try some real feasibility experiments. Take two groups, independent of each other, the other one devises a radio message that should be able to picked up anywhere on Earth with sensitive enough radio equipment (and it should be as vague as that). The other group is the receiver, who don’t know when (let’s say, within a year) the signal begins or ends, at what bandwidth it will be broadcast, or what kind of encoding is used. Neither group knows where the other is located. Basically a double blind STI (Search for Terrestrial Intelligence).

Of course, a certain long distance short wave band (or in any case a band that can be received almost anywhere on Earth, given right circumstances) should be reserved for this purpose for the transmitting group. Now, a certain amount of transmitter time (less than the whole experiment time) should be given to the transmitting team that they can allocate as they choose during the experiment period, while the receiving group listens the whole time using their chosen methods.

If they can detect the signal (and they should of course concentrate on detecting a terrestrial signal sent by the other group, and shifting out all shortwave radio stations etc.) and decode it within that period, it would indicate that it is atleast possible to detect an intelligent message from the noise.

By: Dídac

Dídac — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 17:47:15 +0000

Bill is right. Probably the Wow! signal can be explained this way.

By: The Problem with Blogging at Light Speed « The e-Astronomer

The Problem with Blogging at Light Speed « The e-Astronomer — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:06:33 +0000

[...] as soon as I started digging, I found everybody in the blogosphere had beaten me to it – the Bad Astronomer and the Beeb and me ole chum Paul at Skymania News , and Fraser Cain at Universe Today; and its [...]

By: Bill

Bill — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 10:08:00 +0000

Earth rotates – so Polaris is the right choice (well, you could use that star near the south celestial pole instead, but nobody who’s right-side up has ever heard of it.) If you point to something that’s not near the poles, then you’re spraying the music around whatever fraction of a 360-degree circle it takes to finish the song, so no hypothetical listener gets very much of it, and all the different broadcasters are pointing different directions. (If you wanted to do something like that, it’d be much simpler; the World Cup gets broadcast from everywhere…)

By: Bo Babbyo

Bo Babbyo — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 07:46:57 +0000

You know, I THOUGHT there was something fishy about that story. I shall berate my friends for their mendacity at the first opportunity. It’s a sad day when you can’t trust the word of album-cover imitating pedestrians.

By: Al Wilson

Al Wilson — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 04:34:37 +0000

Bo Babbyo, regarding Abbey Road: there is no “WALK” signal — it is a zebra crossing. Zebra crossings have no signals; the cars are required to stop as soon as a person puts one foot on the road…

By: Bo Babbyo

Bo Babbyo — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:27:07 +0000

Some friends of mine have a photo of themselves identical to this one.
Moments after it was snapped, a detachment of Abbey Road residents descended upon them and beat them to within an inch of their lives. Apparently it happens practically every time there’s a “WALK” signal. The hard part is distinguishing those who are reproducing the album cover from those who are simply crossing the street. The Abbey Roaders have a method, but mum’s the word, for fear of losing their edge over the tourists.

By: Lugosi

Lugosi — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:56:55 +0000

This post reminds me of something interesting I recently read (though I can’t remember where now). Basically, the author said that all those radio & TV signals we’ve been beaming into the universe become “lost” in the cosmic background noise of the universe after about four light years from Earth. He compared it to dropping a rock into the ocean: You start out with big ripples initially around the point of impact, but as they radiate out, they become smaller and less noticeable until they eventually disappear entirely.

By: John W

John W — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:52:00 +0000

That is indeed Kevin Grazier, BA. The two guys in the back are (nearer guy) Andy Ingersoll (of Caltech) and (further guy) Carl Murray (of Queen Mary University, London). Andre Brahic (Centre d”Etudes de Saclay, Paris) is the visible person in the second row. I can’t really tell who the two people behind Kevin and Andre are, but I’ve often wondered.

By: Aaron Muderick

Aaron Muderick — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:36:42 +0000

I noticed that the original file was an MP3 and it was a digital transmission. MP3 is a format designed using psychoacoustics to throw away all the sound humans can’t hear and thus achieve high levels of compression. i.e. The tricks MP3 uses will sound very different to different species and obviously aliens.

Also, it was a digital transmission which really dramatically reduces the chance of anyone ever being able to decode the transmission, realize it is audio, and properly assemble it into an audio file.

Of course no one is listening out there but still…they could at least make an effort.

By: eewolf

eewolf — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:39:31 +0000

Well, if humanity can pull itself into the 21st century, abandon bronze age insanity, and focus on reality… we might be there ourselves to pick up this message in 431 years.

By: Rick

Rick — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:01:37 +0000

Learn something new every day — I thought for sure that there was a protocol adopted after the Arecibo message that prohibited this kind of thing without broad consultation, but I gather from a quick sanity check with Google that the protocol only applies to responding to a message, not to initiating one. Sure as hell hope Brin’s “Deadly Probes” hypothesis isn’t right…

By: Zaphodn

Zaphodn — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 19:33:54 +0000

This sort of makes up for the Beatles song that didn’t
make it on the Voyager Record in 1977 due to their
short-sighted company that owned the song. All 4
Beatles were all for it – Here Comes the Sun was the
pick.

What dish did the DSN transmit from and at what
frequencies and power?

Won’t this act by NASA rather complicate the debate
over sending signals into the galaxy, regardless of the
fact that they beamed it to a star that likely has no life
or even planets – but what if there is an expedition
present exploring the Polarian system in 431 years time?

Pro METI folks can now say Hey, NASA sent a message
into space without asking anyone’s permission, why
can’t we do the same?

We might get hordes of screaming teenage aliens wanting
to grab Paul’s hair in a few centuries now.

By: Howie

Howie — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 19:17:35 +0000

so, I wanna know. Is NASA getting proper copyright/release to broadcast this song to the Stars? Will it be preceded by a “Dear Whomever receives and decodes this .. this song is copyrighted and before you copy it, you must obtain a release or purchase a license from the copyright holders on the Planet Earth ..”?

By: Duane

Duane — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:51:24 +0000

Is it possible that the radio beam could spread out wide enough to encounter some red dwarf stars within a few degrees of Polaris’ line of sight? If it’s true that 80% of the stars in the Milky Way are red dwarfs, and that the closest of them are too dim to be seen from Earth without a telescope, it seems a likely possibility.

By: JSW

JSW — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:47:33 +0000

So which member of the Cassini team is dead and replaced with a lookalike/soundalike?

By: Donnie B.

Donnie B. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:28:33 +0000

Although it’s technically a Beatles song, by the time they recorded “Across the Universe” John and Paul were essentially operating independently. So really it’s a John Lennon song — and one of his most inspired lyrics.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the Polarians. Let’s say they do pick up the haunting strains of “Jai guru deva, om” as they tune in on the sky. The word is spread and all scopes are aimed at Earth… by which time the DSN is back to communicating with Spirit and Opportunity. Nothing more is heard, and the whole episode goes down as a footnote in Polarian history.

Except when a new subharmonic-modulation ensemble suddenly appears on the scene, sporting shockingly long follicle fringes, and all the youngsters go chartreuse with excitement…

By: Larry

Larry — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:19:55 +0000

Reminds me of the classic SNL skit where Steve Martin was commenting about a message received from outer space after the launch of Voyager with its disc of the sounds of Earth. The disc included a number of pieces of music of various types. When the message was decoded, it read “Send more Chuck Berry”.

By: Michael Lonergan

Michael Lonergan — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:13:00 +0000

Slightly off topic, but could someone tell me what this message I’m getting means every time I make a post, and is anyone else getting it?

Warning: Cannot modify header information – headers already sent by (output started at /home/badastro/domains/badastronomy.com/public_html/bablog/wp-content/plugins/SK2/sk2_second_chance.php:2) in /home/badastro/domains/badastronomy.com/public_html/bablog/wp-content/plugins/bad-behavior/bad-behavior/screener.inc.php on line 8
Thank you. Your comment has been approved

By: Michael Lonergan

Michael Lonergan — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 18:10:49 +0000

Tacitus, I’m not sure what I think. I think it is probably wise to debate the issue, and come up with some consensus as to who should be sending that message and what it should say. After all, whoever sends that message will be speaking on behalf af all of humanity.

Also, I look at our own history and development as a species, and our propensity for aggression and war. Can we be sure that whoever is out there would not share that same trait? I don’t think we can just assume that they would be peaceful and benevolent. At the same time, I don’t think we can assume that they would be violent and aggressive. I think caution is prudent.