“I propose that we round up ALL the creationists in the world and ship them to Australia. There they can set up their own society based on the Bible, and spend their days imposing their belief systems on one another instead of the rest of us. Heck, maybe they can make Mike Huckabee their President.”

Nah, he’ll be too busy governing _your_ nation at this rate …

I second the person who noted that this be okay provided they’re all dropped in the centre of the Gibson Desert without food & water.
(BTW. I’m an Aussie.)

I agree too about the otherperson who noted the crims were medium level mostly poor but industrious / clever-ish crooks – the real criminals -murderes ,rapists, etc .. of the time were executed usually by public hanging. (A few lucky aristocrats & ex-Queens got beheaded by axe or sword instead.) A policy – for the unquestionably guilty & seriously nasty offenders – which I would have no problem with us adopting today.
(Albeit in slightly more refined form.)

The 18th century equivalent of those annoying people who knock on your doors (or stand shreiking in the streets) to spout their religious beliefs – those were the puritannical one’s who went off to found America – a legacy the USA has clearly yet to recover from ..

Hmm .. Can’t help thinking how much better the world would be if the ‘Mayflower’ had just sunk on the way over and been lost with all aboard!

Clearly we Aussies had the better deal Plus we managed to gain independence peacefully rather than with all that massive bloodshed and hatred accompanying the US revolution against George III’s rule…

Darth Robo : “.. just what exactly is it that creationism is doing to prove itself correct and creationism wrong? Science? No, it’s concentrating on pushing legislation through courts, through Government, bypassing that and going directly to the schools and mounting PR campaigns. And you never learn. And this is why the scientific community will never ever EVER take you guys seriously.”

The Creationists don’t care about the *scientific* community or what we think. I don’t think the scientists are their targets outside of a “They’re witches! Burn them, burn them!” fashion …

The people who I think the creationists want – who they’re targeting and focusing on are the masses, the general pubklic who don’t know any better and can be fooled into accepting them and their theocratic rule. They want Religion – their interpretation anyhow – taught as the Unquestionable Word with dissenters burnt at the stake & science and scientists gone.

Its power politics not science that’s the real arena here .. ID-Creationists are disqualified from the arena of science to begin with.

Of course, they’ll never admit this – they try to borrow “scientific” garb for their Dark Ages Inquisitorial nature – but in their secretive deceptive hearts, at the core of their mindsets, this is really who they _really_ are … Christian taliban no less.

Don’t wait for the “threat in Europe to become serious” because, just like cancer, by the time it’s serious it’s too late. The threat is already serious, and they’re building momentum.

We can stop them though, but we need to take it seriously. I know in the past the science community has basically shrugged off Creationists as a problem that no one will take seriously, but this time the virus has built up a spiny protein coat and is a little more resilient to our antibodies. Fight it.

Best way to beat lies is with a bright shining flashlight. Creationists capitalize on the public’s general ignorance of science. The more people we can reach and inform, the more people we can make realize that their stuff is total bunk.

“I see things like the Big Bang theory and evolution as being completely compatible with my beliefs. This does not mean that I feel I can scientifically prove my beliefs nor do I feel it is necessary to do so (faith is required due to “argument from ignorance”). However, faith (both religious and secular) is pointless when it is based on falsities. So, when I find truth I make sure I align myself with it regardless of where that truth came from.

“I’d be much more interested in reading discussions on how people find compatibilities with modern thought and their personal beliefs (again religious or ethically) than I would in reading yet another science vs. religion debate. The science vs. religion debates seem to miss the point, that when truth comes along both should align themselves with it.”

Hear, hear, Caleb.

What the debate needs is for more people like you to step forward and tell the fundies that their claims about evolution, and science in general, do more harm than good. They are extremely unlikely to convince agnostics, never mind actual atheists, and all they do is propagate ignorance and confusion.

Thank you for practising what St Augustine taught.

We had a brief creationistic “episode” back in 2006. Some religiously (evangelical?) inclined school started with the “alternative theories” thing in biology classes. When it became more broadly known, most people where not very happy about it. However, the Minister of Education of the State of Hessen backed that approach, which has drawn a lot of criticism from all directions – scientific institutions, newspapers, even the major churches.

Regarding your Catholic/Protestant and East/West guess: yes, it was in the West, but it wasn’t Catholic (both the school and the Minister are have – different – protestant/evangelical backgrounds). However, I’m not really sure if I should be more afraid of Catholics or Protestant in this regard…

So currently, it’s rather quiet. However, I have that feeling that it’s not over.

PS: Sorry for the Trackback in German – I forgot that it would go off automatically and wouldn’t be much help to a English site.

It seemed to be going fine, until that idiot pope Benny showed up!

“The science vs. religion debates seem to miss the point, that when truth comes along both should align themselves with it.”

See, Mikey? Religious person. Normal person. Sane person. Why can’t you be more like Caleb here?

And while I think on, just what exactly is it that creationism is doing to prove itself correct and creationism wrong? Science? No, it’s concentrating on pushing legislation through courts, through Government, bypassing that and going directly to the schools and mounting PR campaigns. And you never learn. And this is why the scientific community will never ever EVER take you guys seriously.

Now, as students have to pass standardised tests they will, obviously, learn the science they need to learn in order to get good grades, but they are told by their teachers that what they are learning is false.

This is the downside of living in a country which looks down upon overt religiousness. At least in America politicians there go on and on about being religious so at the very least you’ve got an idea what they might get up to. Here they don’t dare admit it for fear of everything thinking they’re a nutter… and then sneak this kind of thing up on you.