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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s the harm?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:27:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-2/#comment-70207</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70207</guid>
		<description>Re: competing claims of science and alternative medicine:

Nobody has ever made the claim that an atomic bomb would heal you of your foot corns and cure your cancer.

Radiation, on the other hand, has at least had some inroads into the second claim.

The same cannot be said for acupuncture.  Nor, for that matter, could acupuncture be turned into a weapon of mass destruction.  It would have to be effective for that to happen.

Magical thinking is the culprit - and I&#039;m sorry, but &quot;in some cases&quot; as a case for some alternative therapies is synonymous with &quot;anecdotal,&quot; and the plural of &quot;anecdote&quot; is not &quot;data.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: competing claims of science and alternative medicine:</p>
<p>Nobody has ever made the claim that an atomic bomb would heal you of your foot corns and cure your cancer.</p>
<p>Radiation, on the other hand, has at least had some inroads into the second claim.</p>
<p>The same cannot be said for acupuncture.  Nor, for that matter, could acupuncture be turned into a weapon of mass destruction.  It would have to be effective for that to happen.</p>
<p>Magical thinking is the culprit &#8211; and I&#8217;m sorry, but &#8220;in some cases&#8221; as a case for some alternative therapies is synonymous with &#8220;anecdotal,&#8221; and the plural of &#8220;anecdote&#8221; is not &#8220;data.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Shane</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-2/#comment-70206</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 01:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70206</guid>
		<description>Hey DexX, you can donate blood. According to the Red Cross all you to do is wait 12 months from the last time you had &quot;male to male sexual activity&quot;. Easy! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey DexX, you can donate blood. According to the Red Cross all you to do is wait 12 months from the last time you had &#8220;male to male sexual activity&#8221;. Easy! <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: DexX</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-2/#comment-70205</link>
		<dc:creator>DexX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70205</guid>
		<description>Even queer Aussie men can&#039;t donate blood, which annoys me a tad.  I want to donate blood, but they don&#039;t want it.

Regarding child vegetarianism, I have vegie friends who feed their kids meat, and will continue to do so until the children are old enough to make their own lifestyle decision.  I applaud them for that, especially since preparing meat is so distasteful for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even queer Aussie men can&#8217;t donate blood, which annoys me a tad.  I want to donate blood, but they don&#8217;t want it.</p>
<p>Regarding child vegetarianism, I have vegie friends who feed their kids meat, and will continue to do so until the children are old enough to make their own lifestyle decision.  I applaud them for that, especially since preparing meat is so distasteful for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-2/#comment-70204</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70204</guid>
		<description>The risk of disease isn&#039;t why the JWs refuse blood transfusions. Anyway blood screening makes the risk of contracting anything from blood products these days vanishingly small especially in the west. We in Australia aren&#039;t even allowed to donate blood if we&#039;ve lived in the UK between 1980 and 1996.

Vitamin megadoses may not cause problems for some people but I&#039;m yet to be convinced of any benefit. Gorillas may share 96 percent of our genetic makeup but they&#039;re still not people. Better than most people certainly but just because they&#039;ve evolved to eat more vegies (bamboo and roots etc) than we do doesn&#039;t mean we could exist on the same diet or even benefit from that diet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The risk of disease isn&#8217;t why the JWs refuse blood transfusions. Anyway blood screening makes the risk of contracting anything from blood products these days vanishingly small especially in the west. We in Australia aren&#8217;t even allowed to donate blood if we&#8217;ve lived in the UK between 1980 and 1996.</p>
<p>Vitamin megadoses may not cause problems for some people but I&#8217;m yet to be convinced of any benefit. Gorillas may share 96 percent of our genetic makeup but they&#8217;re still not people. Better than most people certainly but just because they&#8217;ve evolved to eat more vegies (bamboo and roots etc) than we do doesn&#8217;t mean we could exist on the same diet or even benefit from that diet.</p>
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		<title>By: Clair</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-2/#comment-70203</link>
		<dc:creator>Clair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70203</guid>
		<description>*tongue planted in cheek... sort of...*

Maybe by leaving these people to scam, it&#039;ll help push the species to evolving once again. Since we&#039;re curing many diseases, &quot;correcting&quot; mutations, and creating extraordinarily resilient bacteria (while not creating resilient immune systems), we&#039;ve stopped evolving anything other than our brains.. and even that has been retarded by the elimination of these fine craftspeople and (scam)artists!


;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*tongue planted in cheek&#8230; sort of&#8230;*</p>
<p>Maybe by leaving these people to scam, it&#8217;ll help push the species to evolving once again. Since we&#8217;re curing many diseases, &#8220;correcting&#8221; mutations, and creating extraordinarily resilient bacteria (while not creating resilient immune systems), we&#8217;ve stopped evolving anything other than our brains.. and even that has been retarded by the elimination of these fine craftspeople and (scam)artists!</p>
<p> <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Ferro</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-2/#comment-70202</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Ferro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70202</guid>
		<description>I take issue with some of the &quot;harm&quot; being deaths that happened to occur while someone was practicing a pseudoscience behavior.. like deaths from fires set by candles. The pseudoscience didn&#039;t harm those people, the fire did. The same thing could happen by me lighting a candle during a power outage. While one may successfully argue that the candle wouldn&#039;t be lit if that practice wasn&#039;t going on, I feel that is a weak argument.

CJSF</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take issue with some of the &#8220;harm&#8221; being deaths that happened to occur while someone was practicing a pseudoscience behavior.. like deaths from fires set by candles. The pseudoscience didn&#8217;t harm those people, the fire did. The same thing could happen by me lighting a candle during a power outage. While one may successfully argue that the candle wouldn&#8217;t be lit if that practice wasn&#8217;t going on, I feel that is a weak argument.</p>
<p>CJSF</p>
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		<title>By: Doc</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-2/#comment-70201</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70201</guid>
		<description>Gary,

&quot;Vit C mega doses may or may not be of some use...&quot;

I know of people who have wound up with ascorbic acid crystals forming in their kidneys (and causing pain and damage) due to megadoses of vitamin C.

Having had kidney stones myself (oxylate, not vitamin C related), I hope you continue to get enough fluids so you pass the excess vitamins painlessly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gary,</p>
<p>&#8220;Vit C mega doses may or may not be of some use&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I know of people who have wound up with ascorbic acid crystals forming in their kidneys (and causing pain and damage) due to megadoses of vitamin C.</p>
<p>Having had kidney stones myself (oxylate, not vitamin C related), I hope you continue to get enough fluids so you pass the excess vitamins painlessly.</p>
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		<title>By: Barton Paul Levenson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70200</link>
		<dc:creator>Barton Paul Levenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70200</guid>
		<description>Note, also, that several veterinarians have reported serious problems in cats from being fed vegetarian diets.  Cats are obligate carnivores; without the amino acid taurine in their diet (found only in meat), they first lose night vision, then go blind, then die of brain damage.  Usually it doesn&#039;t get as far as the latter; most cat owners will take a cat to the vet earlier than that.  A good source on this is the book &lt;i&gt;The Cat that Couldn&#039;t See in the Dark.&lt;/i&gt;  Don&#039;t remember the author&#039;s name, unfortunately, but a web search should turn it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note, also, that several veterinarians have reported serious problems in cats from being fed vegetarian diets.  Cats are obligate carnivores; without the amino acid taurine in their diet (found only in meat), they first lose night vision, then go blind, then die of brain damage.  Usually it doesn&#8217;t get as far as the latter; most cat owners will take a cat to the vet earlier than that.  A good source on this is the book <i>The Cat that Couldn&#8217;t See in the Dark.</i>  Don&#8217;t remember the author&#8217;s name, unfortunately, but a web search should turn it up.</p>
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		<title>By: CafeenMan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70199</link>
		<dc:creator>CafeenMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70199</guid>
		<description>&quot;Perhaps I should relabel that category “Child vegetarianism” or something like that to make it more clear.&quot;

Or maybe just &quot;child endangerment.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Perhaps I should relabel that category “Child vegetarianism” or something like that to make it more clear.&#8221;</p>
<p>Or maybe just &#8220;child endangerment.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: CafeenMan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70198</link>
		<dc:creator>CafeenMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70198</guid>
		<description>Tim Farley - I know what you mean about ad servers. A site I frequent is newshounds which exists soley to point out that Fox news isn&#039;t fair, balanced or honest.

But ad servers look at the content of the site and serve ads based on the words - not the intent.  So they get a lot of ads for books authored by fox &quot;journalists.&quot;

My site is about model airplanes.  Because the word &quot;air&quot; is used a lot I get tons of ads about air conditioning which has nothing to do with anything on my site.  I think I mention air conditioning once in the 700+ pages when I&#039;m talking about setting up a shop.

Anyway you have the right idea.  Most sites - particularly by us little people who don&#039;t do it professionally, evolve a lot as we learn more and get more content that needs to be organized and easy to find.  I&#039;ve reorganized my entire site perhaps a dozen times and with as many pages as there are now it takes weeks to do it.

Sorry for the o/t Phil.  Thanks for the new source of ammo (Tim for creating it and Phil for telling us about it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim Farley &#8211; I know what you mean about ad servers. A site I frequent is newshounds which exists soley to point out that Fox news isn&#8217;t fair, balanced or honest.</p>
<p>But ad servers look at the content of the site and serve ads based on the words &#8211; not the intent.  So they get a lot of ads for books authored by fox &#8220;journalists.&#8221;</p>
<p>My site is about model airplanes.  Because the word &#8220;air&#8221; is used a lot I get tons of ads about air conditioning which has nothing to do with anything on my site.  I think I mention air conditioning once in the 700+ pages when I&#8217;m talking about setting up a shop.</p>
<p>Anyway you have the right idea.  Most sites &#8211; particularly by us little people who don&#8217;t do it professionally, evolve a lot as we learn more and get more content that needs to be organized and easy to find.  I&#8217;ve reorganized my entire site perhaps a dozen times and with as many pages as there are now it takes weeks to do it.</p>
<p>Sorry for the o/t Phil.  Thanks for the new source of ammo (Tim for creating it and Phil for telling us about it).</p>
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		<title>By: Sue Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70197</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue Mitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70197</guid>
		<description>To Gary  8-)

Re-giving blood.

In the U.K., we do give our blood; we don&#039;t sell it.  This means there&#039;s no incentive for a donor to try to sneak their blood through if they know they&#039;re infected.

There was a serious problem with haemophiliacs some years back, largely owing to lack of relevant information at the time, but nowadays, it&#039;s probably about as safe as it can get.

Donors are screened pretty thoroughly before every donation, and the blood is also screened.
--</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Gary  <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Re-giving blood.</p>
<p>In the U.K., we do give our blood; we don&#8217;t sell it.  This means there&#8217;s no incentive for a donor to try to sneak their blood through if they know they&#8217;re infected.</p>
<p>There was a serious problem with haemophiliacs some years back, largely owing to lack of relevant information at the time, but nowadays, it&#8217;s probably about as safe as it can get.</p>
<p>Donors are screened pretty thoroughly before every donation, and the blood is also screened.<br />
&#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Farley</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70196</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Farley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70196</guid>
		<description>Please note that all of the vegetarian/vegan cases I have are toddlers, the oldest person was 17 months old.  There are legitimate concerns with feeding a toddler a vegetarian diet as they have different nutritional needs than an adult.

Perhaps I should relabel that category &quot;Child vegetarianism&quot; or something like that to make it more clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please note that all of the vegetarian/vegan cases I have are toddlers, the oldest person was 17 months old.  There are legitimate concerns with feeding a toddler a vegetarian diet as they have different nutritional needs than an adult.</p>
<p>Perhaps I should relabel that category &#8220;Child vegetarianism&#8221; or something like that to make it more clear.</p>
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		<title>By: CafeenMan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70195</link>
		<dc:creator>CafeenMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70195</guid>
		<description>nobody seems too terribly concerned about the Y10K bug.  We never learn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nobody seems too terribly concerned about the Y10K bug.  We never learn.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Ansorge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70194</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Ansorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70194</guid>
		<description>JWs have a point about blood transfusions,,,AIDs is passed that way, as well as malaria(which is how I caught malaria in 1948).
 Vit C mega doses may or may not be of some use, but note that none of the great apes are capable of internal production of Vit C, but gorillas(massing an average of 350 lbs) ingest some 5000 mg of Vit C in their normal daily diet, while humans typically ingest some 100 mg(w/o supplementation). Since we share some 96% of our genes with gorillas, I expect we should be ingesting around 2000 mg/day, based upon body weight. Since I weigh 240 lbs, the 2000 mg/day I take should be somewhere in the ball park. HAving mega dosed on such for over 40 years, I expect if there were notable side effects, they should have appeared by now,,,

Now, about Vegans,,, please note that the majority of the worlds population have to get by w/o meat in their diets so that they are, by necessity, vegetarians. Vegans make an ethical choice to eschew meat, because we treat animals as though they are a manufactured product, rather than living beings subject to the same ills and pain we all experience. My daughter has been a vegetarian/vegan since she was 16 years old. At 36 years old, she seems in excellent health, though she has to take zinc supplements, since plants do not fix zinc in their tissues.( The zinc we get from eating animals is ingested by the critters when they eat grass and the dirt in which they grow. Vegans don&#039;t have that dietary access.)

Though I tend toward the carnivore side, I do recognize the value of plants,,,sometimes they&#039;re pretty,,,

GAry 7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JWs have a point about blood transfusions,,,AIDs is passed that way, as well as malaria(which is how I caught malaria in 1948).<br />
 Vit C mega doses may or may not be of some use, but note that none of the great apes are capable of internal production of Vit C, but gorillas(massing an average of 350 lbs) ingest some 5000 mg of Vit C in their normal daily diet, while humans typically ingest some 100 mg(w/o supplementation). Since we share some 96% of our genes with gorillas, I expect we should be ingesting around 2000 mg/day, based upon body weight. Since I weigh 240 lbs, the 2000 mg/day I take should be somewhere in the ball park. HAving mega dosed on such for over 40 years, I expect if there were notable side effects, they should have appeared by now,,,</p>
<p>Now, about Vegans,,, please note that the majority of the worlds population have to get by w/o meat in their diets so that they are, by necessity, vegetarians. Vegans make an ethical choice to eschew meat, because we treat animals as though they are a manufactured product, rather than living beings subject to the same ills and pain we all experience. My daughter has been a vegetarian/vegan since she was 16 years old. At 36 years old, she seems in excellent health, though she has to take zinc supplements, since plants do not fix zinc in their tissues.( The zinc we get from eating animals is ingested by the critters when they eat grass and the dirt in which they grow. Vegans don&#8217;t have that dietary access.)</p>
<p>Though I tend toward the carnivore side, I do recognize the value of plants,,,sometimes they&#8217;re pretty,,,</p>
<p>GAry 7</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70193</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70193</guid>
		<description>Owch. I hope this website will develop more and become a slap in the face for some folks, because when I see things like that...
---
Lisanne Manseau
Age: 12
Hull, Quebec, Canada
Died (untreated diabetes)
March 28, 1994
After consulting a crystal ball, a pendulum and an angel, a naturopath replaced Lisanne&#039;s insulin with a variety of natural remedies to &quot;detoxify&quot; her. She died only three days after beginning treatment. The naturopath was convicted of manslaughter.
----------

It just hits me in the chest. But frankly, I gotta ask something I often ask when kids are involved in this... Good thing the naturopath murderer is in jail, but what about the PARENTS? How come the parents were not jailed as well? They are victims of their own lack of knowledge, yes, but I&#039;m pretty sure that there are other cases were your incompetence towards your child can get you jailed.

I hope they didn&#039;t have more kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Owch. I hope this website will develop more and become a slap in the face for some folks, because when I see things like that&#8230;<br />
&#8212;<br />
Lisanne Manseau<br />
Age: 12<br />
Hull, Quebec, Canada<br />
Died (untreated diabetes)<br />
March 28, 1994<br />
After consulting a crystal ball, a pendulum and an angel, a naturopath replaced Lisanne&#8217;s insulin with a variety of natural remedies to &#8220;detoxify&#8221; her. She died only three days after beginning treatment. The naturopath was convicted of manslaughter.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>It just hits me in the chest. But frankly, I gotta ask something I often ask when kids are involved in this&#8230; Good thing the naturopath murderer is in jail, but what about the PARENTS? How come the parents were not jailed as well? They are victims of their own lack of knowledge, yes, but I&#8217;m pretty sure that there are other cases were your incompetence towards your child can get you jailed.</p>
<p>I hope they didn&#8217;t have more kids.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70192</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue Mitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70192</guid>
		<description>The real harm from the J.W.&#039;s refusal to accept blood transfusions comes when parents refuse an essential transfusion for their child, choosing to let it die.

It&#039;s their choice, not the child&#039;s.  And if the child were given a choice, it&#039;s been brainwashed into following the J.W.&#039;s teachings.  :-(
--</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real harm from the J.W.&#8217;s refusal to accept blood transfusions comes when parents refuse an essential transfusion for their child, choosing to let it die.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s their choice, not the child&#8217;s.  And if the child were given a choice, it&#8217;s been brainwashed into following the J.W.&#8217;s teachings.  <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
&#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: alfaniner</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70191</link>
		<dc:creator>alfaniner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70191</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s &quot;Sylvia Brown&lt;b&gt;e&lt;/b&gt;&quot;.  Much about her and her methods can be found at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.stopsylviabrowne.com&lt;/a&gt;, and some discussion about &quot;What&#039;s the harm?&quot; can be found at &lt;a href=&quot;http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=103101&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Wall of Harm discussion/a&gt;, and many other threads at the JREF Forum.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s &#8220;Sylvia Brown<b>e</b>&#8220;.  Much about her and her methods can be found at <a href="http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.stopsylviabrowne.com</a>, and some discussion about &#8220;What&#8217;s the harm?&#8221; can be found at <a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=103101" rel="nofollow">The Wall of Harm discussion/a&gt;, and many other threads at the JREF Forum.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70190</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70190</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Similarly, to cut JW’s some slack because they don’t deny the efficacy of blood transfusions - sorry, but that’s like making distinctions about the weight of the freight train that is going to run you over. JWs are antiscience because they “believe weird things,” as Shermer would put it. Just because one weird thing isn’t among their vast inventory of weird (and harmful) beliefs doesn’t suddenly make them rationalists. They have earned a place in What’s The Harm.&lt;/i&gt;



I in no way deny that JWs have antiscience beliefs. But the refusal of blood transfusions for spiritual reasons is not one of them. If I don&#039;t deny that smoking kills but that in the end I prefer to smoke and live with the outcome, that isn&#039;t antiscience it is just a personal decision many would disagree with.

They don&#039;t deny the benefits of blood transfusions. They do deny that blood transfusions are always necessary in situations where they are commonly used and have promoted alternative surgical methods in certain cases, but none of the stories on the site about JWs fall into this realm.

If we want to label all religious and spiritual thought as antiscience then we could do so but I think you&#039;ll find a lot less support for that (though I do think that pretty much all religious and spiritual thought is most likely wrong).

Since the site includes as &quot;harm&quot; someone giving up their career to pursue their spiritual beliefs then the much more significant economic &quot;harm&quot; of JWs is in their discouragement of post-secondary education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Similarly, to cut JW’s some slack because they don’t deny the efficacy of blood transfusions &#8211; sorry, but that’s like making distinctions about the weight of the freight train that is going to run you over. JWs are antiscience because they “believe weird things,” as Shermer would put it. Just because one weird thing isn’t among their vast inventory of weird (and harmful) beliefs doesn’t suddenly make them rationalists. They have earned a place in What’s The Harm.</i></p>
<p>I in no way deny that JWs have antiscience beliefs. But the refusal of blood transfusions for spiritual reasons is not one of them. If I don&#8217;t deny that smoking kills but that in the end I prefer to smoke and live with the outcome, that isn&#8217;t antiscience it is just a personal decision many would disagree with.</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t deny the benefits of blood transfusions. They do deny that blood transfusions are always necessary in situations where they are commonly used and have promoted alternative surgical methods in certain cases, but none of the stories on the site about JWs fall into this realm.</p>
<p>If we want to label all religious and spiritual thought as antiscience then we could do so but I think you&#8217;ll find a lot less support for that (though I do think that pretty much all religious and spiritual thought is most likely wrong).</p>
<p>Since the site includes as &#8220;harm&#8221; someone giving up their career to pursue their spiritual beliefs then the much more significant economic &#8220;harm&#8221; of JWs is in their discouragement of post-secondary education.</p>
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		<title>By: Ethyl</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70189</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethyl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70189</guid>
		<description>Just wanted to agree with Blue Collar Scientist that Tim&#039;s site is a specific comeback to a specific line the woosters trot out.  It&#039;s not meant to be a definitive woo-debunker, like Skepdic.  Not to mention, as Tim mentioned above, the site&#039;s in its infancy.  You can follow the development of the site, and pitch in with your suggestions, over at the JREF forums:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=103101</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to agree with Blue Collar Scientist that Tim&#8217;s site is a specific comeback to a specific line the woosters trot out.  It&#8217;s not meant to be a definitive woo-debunker, like Skepdic.  Not to mention, as Tim mentioned above, the site&#8217;s in its infancy.  You can follow the development of the site, and pitch in with your suggestions, over at the JREF forums:<br />
<a href="http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=103101" rel="nofollow">http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=103101</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tim Farley</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70188</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Farley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:41:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70188</guid>
		<description>Hi guys, I&#039;m the creator of the Whats the Harm? site.  Some valid complaints above, but as the Blue Collar Scientist pointed out, I am well aware of them.   They are all covered by the FAQ on the site (http://whatstheharm.net/faq.html).  Please read his post and the FAQ carefully.

I do realize that a few of my existing cases are somewhat weak.  The site has only been online for three weeks, and I&#039;ve only been researching it for about three and a half months.  We&#039;ve got a long way to go yet.  I expect to fill out some of the categories with more cases, add new categories, and probably cull some of the weaker cases as I go on.  I&#039;ve already rearranged some categories once or twice.  I plan to take the Y2K category and fold it into &quot;fear of the apocalypse&quot;.

For the person who complained about the shortness of the summaries, every story has at least one, sometimes as many as four supporting links.  I encourage you to explore them to find out more details about each person.  Maybe I need to make that more clear.

And for the complaint about the search:  I&#039;m using Google, and I&#039;m at the mercy of whether their crawler has covered my site.  If something doesn&#039;t appear, its because they haven&#039;t crawled that page yet.  And as for the ads, AdSense does not let you block enough ad URLs to really guarantee that pseudoscience or paranormal topics will not appear.   So I haven&#039;t even attempted to try.  I&#039;ll continue to research that as I tweak the site.

Thanks for all the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi guys, I&#8217;m the creator of the Whats the Harm? site.  Some valid complaints above, but as the Blue Collar Scientist pointed out, I am well aware of them.   They are all covered by the FAQ on the site (<a href="http://whatstheharm.net/faq.html" rel="nofollow">http://whatstheharm.net/faq.html</a>).  Please read his post and the FAQ carefully.</p>
<p>I do realize that a few of my existing cases are somewhat weak.  The site has only been online for three weeks, and I&#8217;ve only been researching it for about three and a half months.  We&#8217;ve got a long way to go yet.  I expect to fill out some of the categories with more cases, add new categories, and probably cull some of the weaker cases as I go on.  I&#8217;ve already rearranged some categories once or twice.  I plan to take the Y2K category and fold it into &#8220;fear of the apocalypse&#8221;.</p>
<p>For the person who complained about the shortness of the summaries, every story has at least one, sometimes as many as four supporting links.  I encourage you to explore them to find out more details about each person.  Maybe I need to make that more clear.</p>
<p>And for the complaint about the search:  I&#8217;m using Google, and I&#8217;m at the mercy of whether their crawler has covered my site.  If something doesn&#8217;t appear, its because they haven&#8217;t crawled that page yet.  And as for the ads, AdSense does not let you block enough ad URLs to really guarantee that pseudoscience or paranormal topics will not appear.   So I haven&#8217;t even attempted to try.  I&#8217;ll continue to research that as I tweak the site.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70187</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70187</guid>
		<description>The Y2K issue was very real to a lot of companies who had legacy ERP (enterprise resource planning, think SAP) systems that were not ready for the change.  It would have been very disruptive to mitigate these after the fact and thus it was in the corporations&#039; best interest to fix them beforehand.  They did, and the day came and went with little fanfare as many of us who had been involved in managing projects to insure that very thing happening had worked for.

Just because a bomb didn&#039;t go off doesn&#039;t necessarily mean that there never was a bomb.  It could also be saying that someone disarmed it before the boom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Y2K issue was very real to a lot of companies who had legacy ERP (enterprise resource planning, think SAP) systems that were not ready for the change.  It would have been very disruptive to mitigate these after the fact and thus it was in the corporations&#8217; best interest to fix them beforehand.  They did, and the day came and went with little fanfare as many of us who had been involved in managing projects to insure that very thing happening had worked for.</p>
<p>Just because a bomb didn&#8217;t go off doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that there never was a bomb.  It could also be saying that someone disarmed it before the boom.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70186</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue Mitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70186</guid>
		<description>I think some of those are a bit of a stretch.

Take the creationism one.  It was a bar fight, guys!  If they hadn&#039;t got into an argument about creationism v. evolution, then chances are that they would&#039;ve argued about something else - Kylie&#039;s a better singer than Madonna perhaps?

Hm.  Maybe that would&#039;ve been put down to death caused by Mariolatry?

Then again, some were just plain stupidity.  Darwin Awards anyone?  ;-)
--</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think some of those are a bit of a stretch.</p>
<p>Take the creationism one.  It was a bar fight, guys!  If they hadn&#8217;t got into an argument about creationism v. evolution, then chances are that they would&#8217;ve argued about something else &#8211; Kylie&#8217;s a better singer than Madonna perhaps?</p>
<p>Hm.  Maybe that would&#8217;ve been put down to death caused by Mariolatry?</p>
<p>Then again, some were just plain stupidity.  Darwin Awards anyone?  <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
&#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: bassmanpete</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70185</link>
		<dc:creator>bassmanpete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 11:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70185</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That said, take the conventional medical treatment as well as the alternative therapy. :)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Just be sure the conventional treatment isn&#039;t spelt V-I-O-X-X!

Quick story - about 18 months ago I suffered an abscess on a tooth. Dentist prescribed an antibiotic before operating on it. He never mentioned any side effects of the medication, nor did the chemist (pharmacist) when I had the prescription filled. I checked on the net for the side effects of this antibiotic (Clindamycin) one of which was bleeding from the bowel that could start several weeks after finishing the course of tablets.

About a month later I started bleeding from the bowel. Cutting a long story short, it was concluded that it was caused by the proliferation of a bacterium (Clostridium difficile) which is resistant to Clindamycin. If I hadn&#039;t checked the side effects at the time of taking the Clindamycin I doubt I would have made the connection with it &amp; the bleeding.

The point I&#039;m trying to make is, just because you&#039;re being treated with conventional medicine doesn&#039;t mean it&#039;s not going to harm you. Never check your scepticism at the door!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That said, take the conventional medical treatment as well as the alternative therapy. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p></blockquote>
<p>Just be sure the conventional treatment isn&#8217;t spelt V-I-O-X-X!</p>
<p>Quick story &#8211; about 18 months ago I suffered an abscess on a tooth. Dentist prescribed an antibiotic before operating on it. He never mentioned any side effects of the medication, nor did the chemist (pharmacist) when I had the prescription filled. I checked on the net for the side effects of this antibiotic (Clindamycin) one of which was bleeding from the bowel that could start several weeks after finishing the course of tablets.</p>
<p>About a month later I started bleeding from the bowel. Cutting a long story short, it was concluded that it was caused by the proliferation of a bacterium (Clostridium difficile) which is resistant to Clindamycin. If I hadn&#8217;t checked the side effects at the time of taking the Clindamycin I doubt I would have made the connection with it &amp; the bleeding.</p>
<p>The point I&#8217;m trying to make is, just because you&#8217;re being treated with conventional medicine doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s not going to harm you. Never check your scepticism at the door!</p>
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		<title>By: Whats the harm &#171; Lone Wolfs Den</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70184</link>
		<dc:creator>Whats the harm &#171; Lone Wolfs Den</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70184</guid>
		<description>[...] the&#160;harm    I found this at Bad Astronomy.com and it bears [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the&nbsp;harm    I found this at Bad Astronomy.com and it bears [...]</p>
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		<title>By: StuartVO</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/comment-page-1/#comment-70183</link>
		<dc:creator>StuartVO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2008 08:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/12/whats-the-harm/#comment-70183</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;blue collar scientist&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;enthusiatic&gt;clap! clap! clap!&lt;/enthusiatic&gt;

Well said.  We skeptics do, indeed, sometimes tie ourselves into recursive knots, missing the bigger picture.  Thanks for clarifying things.

Also, good on you for saying, in effect, RTFFAQ. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>blue collar scientist</b></p>
<p>&lt;enthusiatic&gt;clap! clap! clap!&lt;/enthusiatic&gt;</p>
<p>Well said.  We skeptics do, indeed, sometimes tie ourselves into recursive knots, missing the bigger picture.  Thanks for clarifying things.</p>
<p>Also, good on you for saying, in effect, RTFFAQ. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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