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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s all this about hydrazine?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: It&#8217;s the End of the World as We Know It &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Satellite&#8217;s Gone&#8230; Part Two</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/comment-page-1/#comment-70793</link>
		<dc:creator>It&#8217;s the End of the World as We Know It &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Satellite&#8217;s Gone&#8230; Part Two</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 03:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/#comment-70793</guid>
		<description>[...] &#160;  [From Bad Astronomy Blog » What’s all this about hydrazine?] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &nbsp;  [From Bad Astronomy Blog » What’s all this about hydrazine?] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tyrannicide for Shrubya George II</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/comment-page-1/#comment-70792</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyrannicide for Shrubya George II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/#comment-70792</guid>
		<description>Or an alternative solution - not much use in this specific case right now but helpful in preventing this sorta thing happening again :

Stop spying on, bullying and threatening other nations that disagree with you America!

Simple really.

Oh &amp; end the counter-productive doomed occupations of Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan &amp; impeach Bush the Mad for war crimes along with his neo-con puppet-masters while you&#039;re at it! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or an alternative solution &#8211; not much use in this specific case right now but helpful in preventing this sorta thing happening again :</p>
<p>Stop spying on, bullying and threatening other nations that disagree with you America!</p>
<p>Simple really.</p>
<p>Oh &amp; end the counter-productive doomed occupations of Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan &amp; impeach Bush the Mad for war crimes along with his neo-con puppet-masters while you&#8217;re at it! <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Tyrannicide for Shrubya George II</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/comment-page-1/#comment-70791</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyrannicide for Shrubya George II</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/#comment-70791</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s an idea  - why not let the Chinese shoot it down instead - they get to test again &amp; they&#039;ve shown the can get the job done.

The US have their latest rogue military scheme knocked out in a nice big bang.

The world as a whole is saved from yet another needless hazard created by the wasteful, polluting war-mongering US military-industrial complex.

Everyone&#039;s happy! ;-)

(Well, except for all the patriotic scoundrels who&#039;ll no doubt be flaming me as soon as this goes up... ;-) )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an idea  &#8211; why not let the Chinese shoot it down instead &#8211; they get to test again &amp; they&#8217;ve shown the can get the job done.</p>
<p>The US have their latest rogue military scheme knocked out in a nice big bang.</p>
<p>The world as a whole is saved from yet another needless hazard created by the wasteful, polluting war-mongering US military-industrial complex.</p>
<p>Everyone&#8217;s happy! <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>(Well, except for all the patriotic scoundrels who&#8217;ll no doubt be flaming me as soon as this goes up&#8230; <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Fischer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/comment-page-1/#comment-70790</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Fischer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/#comment-70790</guid>
		<description>By the way, there is now strong evidence that the &lt;a href=&quot;http://cosmos4u.blogspot.com/2008/02/satellite-attack-planned-for-feb-21.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;first rocket will be fired&lt;/a&gt; on Feb. 21 around 3:30 UTC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, there is now strong evidence that the <a href="http://cosmos4u.blogspot.com/2008/02/satellite-attack-planned-for-feb-21.html" rel="nofollow">first rocket will be fired</a> on Feb. 21 around 3:30 UTC.</p>
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		<title>By: Dunc</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/comment-page-1/#comment-70789</link>
		<dc:creator>Dunc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/#comment-70789</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;We want to test our asat capabilities, but the way the whole world got so pixxed-off at the Chinese for shooting down a satalite, it would be politically incorrect on a global scale to overtly do it ourselves. So, we shoot off a super-secret spy satellite that’s really nothing but a clay pigeon for the world’s biggest skeet shoot.&lt;/i&gt;

If you wanted to come up with a cover story for an ASAT test or demonstration, why would you chose the idea of a secret spy satellite, especially if you&#039;re going to use the &quot;excuse&quot; of its toxic fuel load? Why not claim the target is something less intrinsically controversial? Do you think that the idea of the USA shooting down a new secret spy satellite able to image almost anywhere in the inhabited world is going to be &lt;i&gt;better&lt;/i&gt; received than the idea of the USA shooting down a satellite in the first place?

First rule of cover-ups: never chose a cover story that makes you look worse than the truth would.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>We want to test our asat capabilities, but the way the whole world got so pixxed-off at the Chinese for shooting down a satalite, it would be politically incorrect on a global scale to overtly do it ourselves. So, we shoot off a super-secret spy satellite that’s really nothing but a clay pigeon for the world’s biggest skeet shoot.</i></p>
<p>If you wanted to come up with a cover story for an ASAT test or demonstration, why would you chose the idea of a secret spy satellite, especially if you&#8217;re going to use the &#8220;excuse&#8221; of its toxic fuel load? Why not claim the target is something less intrinsically controversial? Do you think that the idea of the USA shooting down a new secret spy satellite able to image almost anywhere in the inhabited world is going to be <i>better</i> received than the idea of the USA shooting down a satellite in the first place?</p>
<p>First rule of cover-ups: never chose a cover story that makes you look worse than the truth would.</p>
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		<title>By: DAV</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/comment-page-1/#comment-70788</link>
		<dc:creator>DAV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/#comment-70788</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t generally work on military spacecraft. Civilian craft mostly use hydrazine for propellant for orbit stabilization and attitude stabilization. Its use around a telescope would be minimized to prevent contamination. Most civilian craft now rely on magnetic torquer bars  for attitude control wheel unloading. Torquers are a bit slower than a hydrazine burst and may be too slow for military purposes.

Although there is a hydrazine fuel cell, I believe it produces a waste that has to go somewhere. Not usually something you want floating around a telescope. I wouldn&#039;t be surprised to learn that military craft use fuel cells even though there&#039;s plenty of free sunlight. They could use both -- the military belt and suspenders approach.


I think the real reason is to prevent the satellite from falling into the wrong hands. It isn&#039;t so much a question of being able to reverse engineer it to reproduce it. Instead someone could reverse engineering it to learn its capabilities and limitations. It&#039;s amazing what can be deduced from what appears to be a pile of junk. A short list: communication frequencies, attitude stability, telescope imaging capabilities, even encryption methodology. It all depends on what survived the re-entry. If nothing else it could be used to confirm hypotheses about capabilities and indicate avenues for further &quot;research.&quot; I&#039;m sure this is more of a concern than any possible biohazard.

These missions tend to use highly elliptical, retrograde, polar orbits to maximize time over target. As such, any debris would pretty much follow the same orbit. These orbits are used mostly be the military. Some civilian craft such as Landsat and weather observers share but the debris would be mostly a problem only to the military.

I worked in intelligence back in the 70s and my current job requires varying levels of clearance depending upon the project. The thing to keep in mind is that the military rarely divulges more than half truths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t generally work on military spacecraft. Civilian craft mostly use hydrazine for propellant for orbit stabilization and attitude stabilization. Its use around a telescope would be minimized to prevent contamination. Most civilian craft now rely on magnetic torquer bars  for attitude control wheel unloading. Torquers are a bit slower than a hydrazine burst and may be too slow for military purposes.</p>
<p>Although there is a hydrazine fuel cell, I believe it produces a waste that has to go somewhere. Not usually something you want floating around a telescope. I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised to learn that military craft use fuel cells even though there&#8217;s plenty of free sunlight. They could use both &#8212; the military belt and suspenders approach.</p>
<p>I think the real reason is to prevent the satellite from falling into the wrong hands. It isn&#8217;t so much a question of being able to reverse engineer it to reproduce it. Instead someone could reverse engineering it to learn its capabilities and limitations. It&#8217;s amazing what can be deduced from what appears to be a pile of junk. A short list: communication frequencies, attitude stability, telescope imaging capabilities, even encryption methodology. It all depends on what survived the re-entry. If nothing else it could be used to confirm hypotheses about capabilities and indicate avenues for further &#8220;research.&#8221; I&#8217;m sure this is more of a concern than any possible biohazard.</p>
<p>These missions tend to use highly elliptical, retrograde, polar orbits to maximize time over target. As such, any debris would pretty much follow the same orbit. These orbits are used mostly be the military. Some civilian craft such as Landsat and weather observers share but the debris would be mostly a problem only to the military.</p>
<p>I worked in intelligence back in the 70s and my current job requires varying levels of clearance depending upon the project. The thing to keep in mind is that the military rarely divulges more than half truths.</p>
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		<title>By: JackC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/comment-page-1/#comment-70787</link>
		<dc:creator>JackC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/16/whats-all-this-about-hydrazine/#comment-70787</guid>
		<description>Gonzo - actually, we call this a USE of resources. A waste is when, after a goodly number of years, you &quot;offload through the muzzle&quot; about sixty of these things - such as was done when the TALOS missle system went out of commission and the ship on which I once served tossed that number into the ocean - at the cost of some untold millions apiece.

I understand that those on board had quite a show though - two a minute for about half an hour or so. That must have been some display.

JC</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gonzo &#8211; actually, we call this a USE of resources. A waste is when, after a goodly number of years, you &#8220;offload through the muzzle&#8221; about sixty of these things &#8211; such as was done when the TALOS missle system went out of commission and the ship on which I once served tossed that number into the ocean &#8211; at the cost of some untold millions apiece.</p>
<p>I understand that those on board had quite a show though &#8211; two a minute for about half an hour or so. That must have been some display.</p>
<p>JC</p>
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