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	<title>Comments on: BREAKING: SpySat successfully hit by missile</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:37:02 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Acomplia</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/comment-page-2/#comment-111887</link>
		<dc:creator>Acomplia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 06:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/#comment-111887</guid>
		<description>Lovely post. Please add my email address to your list and email me the updates if possible. I always like to read your blog and comment on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lovely post. Please add my email address to your list and email me the updates if possible. I always like to read your blog and comment on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Karn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/comment-page-2/#comment-71857</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Karn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/#comment-71857</guid>
		<description>A comment about &quot;kinetic kill&quot; satellite weapons. At these velocities relatively little momentum is exchanged. It&#039;s as if each object independently explodes and their debris clouds pass through each other with their centers of mass moving more or less unchanged.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A comment about &#8220;kinetic kill&#8221; satellite weapons. At these velocities relatively little momentum is exchanged. It&#8217;s as if each object independently explodes and their debris clouds pass through each other with their centers of mass moving more or less unchanged.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Karn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/comment-page-2/#comment-71856</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Karn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 05:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/#comment-71856</guid>
		<description>The hydrazine was a red herring. Virtually every spacecraft and rocket ever launched carries some form of it in some amount. A ton seems like a lot, but is it really? The Apollo lunar module had 10+ tonnes of the hypergolic fuels hydrazine (actually Aerozine-50) and nitrogen tetroxide. The Delta II second stage, based on the LM ascent engine, carries about 6 tonnes of the same propellants. The real hypergolic guzzlers were the Titans (a Titan-IVB launched Cassini): 155 tonnes for the first stage and 35 tonnes for the second stage.

These are serious amounts of nasty chemicals for those who work with or near them. Sometimes these rockets do blow up shortly after launch and create a hazard. But the USA-193 tank simply wasn&#039;t a credible threat to anyone on the ground. Spacecraft fuel tanks are thin to save weight, and break apart quickly on re-entry. Hydrazine is flammable (it is a rocket fuel after all) so at most it would have briefly brightened the USA-193 re-entry fireball. BFD.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The hydrazine was a red herring. Virtually every spacecraft and rocket ever launched carries some form of it in some amount. A ton seems like a lot, but is it really? The Apollo lunar module had 10+ tonnes of the hypergolic fuels hydrazine (actually Aerozine-50) and nitrogen tetroxide. The Delta II second stage, based on the LM ascent engine, carries about 6 tonnes of the same propellants. The real hypergolic guzzlers were the Titans (a Titan-IVB launched Cassini): 155 tonnes for the first stage and 35 tonnes for the second stage.</p>
<p>These are serious amounts of nasty chemicals for those who work with or near them. Sometimes these rockets do blow up shortly after launch and create a hazard. But the USA-193 tank simply wasn&#8217;t a credible threat to anyone on the ground. Spacecraft fuel tanks are thin to save weight, and break apart quickly on re-entry. Hydrazine is flammable (it is a rocket fuel after all) so at most it would have briefly brightened the USA-193 re-entry fireball. BFD.</p>
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		<title>By: Irishman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/comment-page-2/#comment-71855</link>
		<dc:creator>Irishman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/#comment-71855</guid>
		<description>Satellites &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; easier to hit.  You know the path well ahead of time, and there&#039;s plenty of time to prepare.  ICBM&#039;s give little notice and you have to observe them to project where they will be when you want to hit them.

StevoR said:
&gt; Now ok, it was rationalised - not overly convincingly - as a possible threat to people with hydrazine fuel but c’mon, there’s a lot of understandable cynicism about that!

Understandable cynicism.  Maybe multiple reasons for the takedown.  Doesn&#039;t negate the hydrazine risk.

&gt; Wasn’t there a lot of hydrazine or suchlike dangerous chemicals spilt when ‘Columbia’ broke up on re-entry? Seem to recall NASA using that as a warning-off from morbid ghouls picking up pieces of the shuttle debris and seling them on e-bay or whatever ..

Yes, there was some hydrazine on Columbia, and there was concern over contaminated parts.  Not sure, but it sounds like you&#039;re trying to belittle the hydrazine risk by saying Columbia had hydrazine, too.  Couple differences. 1) Columbia had used up most of the hydrazine on board, vs this satellite having full tank. 2) Columbia broke up, dispersing most of the remaining hydrazine, while the satellite was predicted to have tanks survive reentry intact and thus have a large amount concentrated in the strike zone. Also, and this is significant, Columbia was &lt;i&gt;intended&lt;/i&gt; to return intact, so breaking up and spilling hydrazine was not intentional, nor was scattering potentially contaminated parts across Texas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Satellites <i>are</i> easier to hit.  You know the path well ahead of time, and there&#8217;s plenty of time to prepare.  ICBM&#8217;s give little notice and you have to observe them to project where they will be when you want to hit them.</p>
<p>StevoR said:<br />
&gt; Now ok, it was rationalised &#8211; not overly convincingly &#8211; as a possible threat to people with hydrazine fuel but c’mon, there’s a lot of understandable cynicism about that!</p>
<p>Understandable cynicism.  Maybe multiple reasons for the takedown.  Doesn&#8217;t negate the hydrazine risk.</p>
<p>&gt; Wasn’t there a lot of hydrazine or suchlike dangerous chemicals spilt when ‘Columbia’ broke up on re-entry? Seem to recall NASA using that as a warning-off from morbid ghouls picking up pieces of the shuttle debris and seling them on e-bay or whatever ..</p>
<p>Yes, there was some hydrazine on Columbia, and there was concern over contaminated parts.  Not sure, but it sounds like you&#8217;re trying to belittle the hydrazine risk by saying Columbia had hydrazine, too.  Couple differences. 1) Columbia had used up most of the hydrazine on board, vs this satellite having full tank. 2) Columbia broke up, dispersing most of the remaining hydrazine, while the satellite was predicted to have tanks survive reentry intact and thus have a large amount concentrated in the strike zone. Also, and this is significant, Columbia was <i>intended</i> to return intact, so breaking up and spilling hydrazine was not intentional, nor was scattering potentially contaminated parts across Texas.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul A.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/comment-page-2/#comment-71854</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/#comment-71854</guid>
		<description>I thought this sort of thing was hard to do and they weren&#039;t having much luck developing antiballistic missiles to intercept ICBMs. Are the computers and tracking better, or are satellites just easy to hit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought this sort of thing was hard to do and they weren&#8217;t having much luck developing antiballistic missiles to intercept ICBMs. Are the computers and tracking better, or are satellites just easy to hit?</p>
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		<title>By: StevoR</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/comment-page-2/#comment-71853</link>
		<dc:creator>StevoR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/#comment-71853</guid>
		<description>D&#039;oh! Frakkin&#039; typos!

&quot;Aren’t there some serious issues here with the international (UN?) law on space -in terms if not militarizing space or using it for aggressive military purposes? &quot;

Should be :

Aren’t there some serious issues here with the international (UN?) law on space - in terms *of*  not militarizing space or using it for aggressive military purposes?

Obviously!
---------------
‘Needless to say’,
 It need not be said
 But so many needlessly say it.
Is this because its not ‘needless to say‘
And that’s why we so often say it?
For if its not needless
Then needs must we say
But if not we needn’t e’er say it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D&#8217;oh! Frakkin&#8217; typos!</p>
<p>&#8220;Aren’t there some serious issues here with the international (UN?) law on space -in terms if not militarizing space or using it for aggressive military purposes? &#8221;</p>
<p>Should be :</p>
<p>Aren’t there some serious issues here with the international (UN?) law on space &#8211; in terms *of*  not militarizing space or using it for aggressive military purposes?</p>
<p>Obviously!<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
‘Needless to say’,<br />
 It need not be said<br />
 But so many needlessly say it.<br />
Is this because its not ‘needless to say‘<br />
And that’s why we so often say it?<br />
For if its not needless<br />
Then needs must we say<br />
But if not we needn’t e’er say it!</p>
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		<title>By: StevoR</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/comment-page-1/#comment-71852</link>
		<dc:creator>StevoR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/20/breaking-spysat-successfully-hit-by-missile/#comment-71852</guid>
		<description>I’ve got mixed feelings about this &amp; don’t really know whether to congratulate the folks involved for achieving an impressive technological feat with such good execution and accuracy? Or condemn them for the further militarisation of space and the negative implications this has - diplomatically and for space usage &amp; exploration generally?

Aren&#039;t there some serious issues here  with the international (UN?) law on space -in terms if not militarizing space or using it for aggressive military purposes?

Now ok, it was rationalised  - not overly convincingly - as a possible threat to people with hydrazine fuel but c&#039;mon, there&#039;s a lot of understandable cynicism about that!

Wasn&#039;t there a lot of hydrazine or suchlike dangerous chemicals spilt when &#039;Columbia&#039; broke up on re-entry? Seem to recall NASA using that as a warning-off from morbid ghouls picking up pieces of the shuttle debris and seling them on e-bay or whatever ..

The real reasons being  showing off to China and preventing it falling into non-US military hands strikes me as being much more credible. &amp; just because China does something bad doesn&#039;t mean the USA has to copy them .. &quot;Great Powers&quot; politics is so stupidly &amp; dangerously childish on occassion. :-(

(I blow up a satelite! Hah Hah! Hey! I can blow one up too! Ner,ner! Grow up please &quot;Uncle Sam&quot; and &quot;Chinese Lil&#039; Emperors&quot;!

In fairness, I &#039;spose  all three reasons could be combined to justify destroying Sat. USA-193  but ... hmmn... as I said, mixed feelings &amp; mixed messages there.



I am glad of one thing though - at least unlike in ‘Futurama’ they didn’t miss the real target and blow up Hubble by mistake!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve got mixed feelings about this &amp; don’t really know whether to congratulate the folks involved for achieving an impressive technological feat with such good execution and accuracy? Or condemn them for the further militarisation of space and the negative implications this has &#8211; diplomatically and for space usage &amp; exploration generally?</p>
<p>Aren&#8217;t there some serious issues here  with the international (UN?) law on space -in terms if not militarizing space or using it for aggressive military purposes?</p>
<p>Now ok, it was rationalised  &#8211; not overly convincingly &#8211; as a possible threat to people with hydrazine fuel but c&#8217;mon, there&#8217;s a lot of understandable cynicism about that!</p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t there a lot of hydrazine or suchlike dangerous chemicals spilt when &#8216;Columbia&#8217; broke up on re-entry? Seem to recall NASA using that as a warning-off from morbid ghouls picking up pieces of the shuttle debris and seling them on e-bay or whatever ..</p>
<p>The real reasons being  showing off to China and preventing it falling into non-US military hands strikes me as being much more credible. &amp; just because China does something bad doesn&#8217;t mean the USA has to copy them .. &#8220;Great Powers&#8221; politics is so stupidly &amp; dangerously childish on occassion. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>(I blow up a satelite! Hah Hah! Hey! I can blow one up too! Ner,ner! Grow up please &#8220;Uncle Sam&#8221; and &#8220;Chinese Lil&#8217; Emperors&#8221;!</p>
<p>In fairness, I &#8217;spose  all three reasons could be combined to justify destroying Sat. USA-193  but &#8230; hmmn&#8230; as I said, mixed feelings &amp; mixed messages there.</p>
<p>I am glad of one thing though &#8211; at least unlike in ‘Futurama’ they didn’t miss the real target and blow up Hubble by mistake!</p>
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