Comments on: NASA takes a peek at the Moon’s pole http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/ I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog. Sun, 05 Jul 2009 08:23:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: Imagens do Pólo Sul da Lua. Teria água na Lua? | PostMania - Tem sempre algo novo! http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73052 Imagens do Pólo Sul da Lua. Teria água na Lua? | PostMania - Tem sempre algo novo! Sun, 02 Mar 2008 23:42:55 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73052 [...] via Tags: água, lua, polo sul [...] […] via Tags: água, lua, polo sul […]

]]> By: Lab Lemming http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73051 Lab Lemming Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:03:34 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73051 Perseus, Water can only be liquid under pressure- in the vacuum of space, it is either solid (ice) or gaseous. Here on Earth, the atmospheric pressure gives water a 100 degree window in which it is stable. Because the moon has no atmosphere, water can only be solid or liquid there. Also, because the moon has weak gravity, gaseous water will escape its gravity, just like helium gas can escape from Earth's gravity. So ice that evaporates during the lunar day will be lost to space. Thus the only lunar conditions where water is predicted to be stable are in areas that are in permanent shadow, where the ice will not evaporate. Perseus,
Water can only be liquid under pressure- in the vacuum of space, it is either solid (ice) or gaseous.

Here on Earth, the atmospheric pressure gives water a 100 degree window in which it is stable.

Because the moon has no atmosphere, water can only be solid or liquid there.

Also, because the moon has weak gravity, gaseous water will escape its gravity, just like helium gas can escape from Earth’s gravity. So ice that evaporates during the lunar day will be lost to space.

Thus the only lunar conditions where water is predicted to be stable are in areas that are in permanent shadow, where the ice will not evaporate.

]]> By: Perseus http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73050 Perseus Sat, 01 Mar 2008 19:54:16 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73050 I'm just a novice to the internet and only an amateur space buff, so forgive any ignorance I display. One-sixth gravity of Earth is STILL gravity. Wouldn't any liquid water, however briefly it existed in a liquid state, seep downward into lunar soil, into crevices and cracks in the crust, and be UNDER the surface? 'Water seeks its own level' under gravity...namely DOWNWARD...right? So maybe on the Moon and Mars, etc. we'd simply need to drill WELLS, like we do on Earth? Like, say a Comet delivers water-ice to the Moon...during the smash and vaporization, boiling in the sunlight, condensation of vapor in the darkness and shadows, or whatever occurs during such an event, SOME water seeps underground...where sunlight doesn't affect it. Wouldn't that be more logical than hoping to find ice in the bottom of an OPEN crater? Wouldn't ice in OPEN craters sublimate into a vapor? Like my vanishing ice-cubes in the fridge? Or does sublimation only occur in an atmosphere? Anyways, I suspect the reason water is so ELUSIVE to find on Moon and Mars is because it's underground. What say you guys? I’m just a novice to the internet and only an amateur space buff, so forgive any ignorance I display. One-sixth gravity of Earth is STILL gravity. Wouldn’t any liquid water, however briefly it existed in a liquid state, seep downward into lunar soil, into crevices and cracks in the crust, and be UNDER the surface? ‘Water seeks its own level’ under gravity…namely DOWNWARD…right? So maybe on the Moon and Mars, etc. we’d simply need to drill WELLS, like we do on Earth? Like, say a Comet delivers water-ice to the Moon…during the smash and vaporization, boiling in the sunlight, condensation of vapor in the darkness and shadows, or whatever occurs during such an event, SOME water seeps underground…where sunlight doesn’t affect it. Wouldn’t that be more logical than hoping to find ice in the bottom of an OPEN crater? Wouldn’t ice in OPEN craters sublimate into a vapor? Like my vanishing ice-cubes in the fridge? Or does sublimation only occur in an atmosphere? Anyways, I suspect the reason water is so ELUSIVE to find on Moon and Mars is because it’s underground. What say you guys?

]]> By: Lab Lemming http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73049 Lab Lemming Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:52:56 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73049 Lunar rocks are famous for having no structural water. So minerals like mica, which incorporate water into their crystal lattices, are not found on the moon. Also, the volcanic glass on the moon is anhydrous, which may explain why it is still glass after billions of years. (here on Earth, glass devitrifies in less than a million years). Here's an Apollo 12 Mare basalt (low Ti) composition for y'all, presented as oxide weight percent: SiO2 43.6% TiO2 2.6% Al2O3 7.9% FeO 21.7% MgO 14.9% CaO 8.3% Na2O 0.23% Cr2O3 1% My question for all you astronomers is this: When in the Earth's history did the moon migrate from being in an equatorial orbit to being in a zodiacal one? Obviously, the more recent this change, the less ice we expect to find. Lunar rocks are famous for having no structural water. So minerals like mica, which incorporate water into their crystal lattices, are not found on the moon. Also, the volcanic glass on the moon is anhydrous, which may explain why it is still glass after billions of years. (here on Earth, glass devitrifies in less than a million years).

Here’s an Apollo 12 Mare basalt (low Ti) composition for y’all, presented as oxide weight percent:
SiO2 43.6%
TiO2 2.6%
Al2O3 7.9%
FeO 21.7%
MgO 14.9%
CaO 8.3%
Na2O 0.23%
Cr2O3 1%

My question for all you astronomers is this:
When in the Earth’s history did the moon migrate from being in an equatorial orbit to being in a zodiacal one?

Obviously, the more recent this change, the less ice we expect to find.

]]> By: comet http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73048 comet Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:06:26 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73048 [...] telephone number to: River Club Competition, Rita Gillen, Surrey Comet, ...www.ealingtimes.co.ukNASA takes a peek at the Moon??s pole The south pole of the Moon is pretty intriguing. There are craters there that are deep enough that [...] […] telephone number to: River Club Competition, Rita Gillen, Surrey Comet, …www.ealingtimes.co.ukNASA takes a peek at the Moon??s pole The south pole of the Moon is pretty intriguing. There are craters there that are deep enough that […]

]]> By: John -- www.moonposter.ie http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73047 John -- www.moonposter.ie Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:24:04 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73047 Gary Don't know about the SiO2 abundance deposits there in the South Pole region - especially around the South Pole Aitkin Basin (the largest impact basin in the Solar System measuring some 2500 km wide and 13 km deep). The impact was so large in fact that it may have touched the moon's early mantle. As a consequence, the basin's interior contains more FeO (Ferrous Oxide) and TiO2 (Titanum Dioxide) depostis than lunar highlands typically have. Thus, there's a resource of oxygen of form that can be tapped into, I suppose. John -- www.moonposter.ie Moon News: www.moonposter.ie/news.htm Gary

Don’t know about the SiO2 abundance deposits there in the South Pole region - especially around the South Pole Aitkin Basin (the largest impact basin in the Solar System measuring some 2500 km wide and 13 km deep). The impact was so large in fact that it may have touched the moon’s early mantle. As a consequence, the basin’s interior contains more FeO (Ferrous Oxide) and TiO2 (Titanum Dioxide) depostis than lunar highlands typically have. Thus, there’s a resource of oxygen of form that can be tapped into, I suppose.

John — www.moonposter.ie
Moon News: www.moonposter.ie/news.htm

]]> By: Gary Ansorge http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73046 Gary Ansorge Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:38:08 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/27/nasa-takes-a-peek-at-the-moons-pole/#comment-73046 Barton: Most of the surface rock, as I recall, is SiO2, so there's plenty of O2 locked up in those rocks. As far as H2 is concerned, I have no idea if there were any hydrates in the returned samples, though I expect if there were we would have had a lot of excitement in the media. H2 could be present as hydrides, I'd guess, bound to various metals. We just need to have a more through analyses of the lunar surface. It's close enough, we should be able to land a really BIG rover type lab there and teleoperate it from earth,,, GAry 7 Barton: Most of the surface rock, as I recall, is SiO2, so there’s plenty of O2 locked up in those rocks. As far as H2 is concerned, I have no idea if there were any hydrates in the returned samples, though I expect if there were we would have had a lot of excitement in the media. H2 could be present as hydrides, I’d guess, bound to various metals.
We just need to have a more through analyses of the lunar surface. It’s close enough, we should be able to land a really BIG rover type lab there and teleoperate it from earth,,,

GAry 7

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