Comments on: Pilots: watch out for space debris! http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/ I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog. Mon, 09 Nov 2009 08:45:12 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Buzz Parsec http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/comment-page-1/#comment-73843 Buzz Parsec Mon, 03 Mar 2008 03:57:27 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/#comment-73843 1) Are you sure this isn't the notification to avoid the area of the SM-3 launch (and the bits and pieces of it falling back down a few minutes later?) At the time, the 1st public information about the intended date and time of the satellite intercept was an official notification to stay away from an area northwest of Hawaii on Feb 21 at a particular time, which people promptly figured out was when USA193 was due to pass overhead. (Until that time, they were very vague about the when and where.) 2) This seems like massive overreaction. Dozens of objects just as large as the fragments of USA193 reenter the earth's atmosphere every day. USA193 is a temporary blip, but nothing out of the ordinary. The vast majority of the fragments are much too small to survive reentry and will burn up 50-75 miles up. Airliners typically fly 4-8 miles high. 1) Are you sure this isn’t the notification to avoid the area of the SM-3 launch (and the bits and pieces of it falling back down a few minutes later?) At the time, the 1st public information about the intended date and time of the satellite intercept was an official notification to stay away from an area northwest of Hawaii on Feb 21 at a particular time, which people promptly figured out was when USA193 was due to pass overhead. (Until that time, they were very vague about the when and where.)

2) This seems like massive overreaction. Dozens of objects just as large as the fragments of USA193 reenter the earth’s atmosphere every day.
USA193 is a temporary blip, but nothing out of the ordinary. The vast majority of the fragments are much too small to survive reentry and will burn up 50-75 miles up. Airliners typically fly 4-8 miles high.

]]> By: Lars Bruchmann http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/comment-page-1/#comment-73842 Lars Bruchmann Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:41:44 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/#comment-73842 If Ellen Muth comes flying at me I'm NOT getting out of the way! She's so dreamy! And smart! (druelling on keyboard now...) Wow, that NOTAM is valid until august 09... And the basic rule about things coming at your in the air, is that if you see NO relative motion, it's coming right for you. So something very small moving very fast would be impossible to see. On the bright side, (i study aircraft safety/accidents) I cannot recall any accidents resulting from objects entering the atmosphere. Remember only 1 person in recorded history was ever hit by such an object! If Ellen Muth comes flying at me I’m NOT getting out of the way! She’s so dreamy! And smart! (druelling on keyboard now…)
Wow, that NOTAM is valid until august 09…
And the basic rule about things coming at your in the air, is that if you see NO relative motion, it’s coming right for you. So something very small moving very fast would be impossible to see.
On the bright side, (i study aircraft safety/accidents) I cannot recall any accidents resulting from objects entering the atmosphere. Remember only 1 person in recorded history was ever hit by such an object!

]]> By: Marco Langbroek http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/comment-page-1/#comment-73841 Marco Langbroek Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:52:54 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/#comment-73841 Those who couldn't find this NOTAM: point your browser to airspace.nifc.gov, and on the left click "TFR's" and in the dropdown "TFR search". Type 8/5536 in the searchbox and select "TFR ID". Tailspin provides a useful piece of information here in his comment: the issue date of this NOTAM, which nifc doesn't provide. February 20th (assuming it is GMT/UTC) is actually before the hit on the satellite. Those who couldn’t find this NOTAM: point your browser to airspace.nifc.gov, and on the left click “TFR’s” and in the dropdown “TFR search”. Type 8/5536 in the searchbox and select “TFR ID”.

Tailspin provides a useful piece of information here in his comment: the issue date of this NOTAM, which nifc doesn’t provide. February 20th (assuming it is GMT/UTC) is actually before the hit on the satellite.

]]> By: Jewel http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/comment-page-1/#comment-73840 Jewel Sun, 02 Mar 2008 01:05:02 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/#comment-73840 John Paradox -- I loved Dead Like Me!! Great show. LOL, I knew this story reminded me of something. John Paradox — I loved Dead Like Me!! Great show. LOL, I knew this story reminded me of something.

]]> By: Chip http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/comment-page-1/#comment-73839 Chip Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:21:38 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/#comment-73839 >>>Lugosion asked: "If you’re piloting a plane doing 500 mph and a piece of space debris doing 17,000 mph comes straight at you, will you have time to crap your pants before dying?"<<< Well, keeping a positive frame of mind, there's much more sky for the space junk to cover (quickly) than your plane at 500 mph, so it might be possible that you'd see it burning up and approaching from quite a ways off and reacting quickly, bank out of the way just as it passed. :D Then, realizing a bullet was dodged, the pilot could fly safely on until the the adrenalin hit and crapping pants occurred. But at least he'd survive. >>>Lugosion asked: “If you’re piloting a plane doing 500 mph and a piece of space debris doing 17,000 mph comes straight at you, will you have time to crap your pants before dying?”<<<

Well, keeping a positive frame of mind, there’s much more sky for the space junk to cover (quickly) than your plane at 500 mph, so it might be possible that you’d see it burning up and approaching from quite a ways off and reacting quickly, bank out of the way just as it passed. :D

Then, realizing a bullet was dodged, the pilot could fly safely on until the the adrenalin hit and crapping pants occurred. But at least he’d survive.

]]> By: Tailspin http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/comment-page-1/#comment-73838 Tailspin Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:17:04 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/#comment-73838 Did just find this tho, at http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_8_5536.xml, so it was apparently issued Feb 20. FDC 2008 5536 2008-02-20T19:06:00 8/5536 3be017f1-3185-43c1-baa4-de82b3e3f576 UTC UTC UNITED STATES Not SPECIAL RAS 410 HEI 0 FT HEI 0 FT NOTAM INCLUDE INCLUDE TRUE COMPOSITE TRUE FALSE ARTCC AFSS !FDC 8/5536 FDC SPECIAL NOTICE ..THIS NOTAM REPLACES FDC 8/5501 DUE TO ADDITION OF CONTACT NUMBER. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL 0803092300 UTC. AIRCRAFT ARE ADVISED THAT A POTENTIAL HAZARD MAY OCCUR DUE TO REENTRYOF SATELLITE USA-193 DEBRIS INTO THE EARTHS ATMOSPHERE. FURTHER NOTAMS WILL BE ISSUED IF MORE INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. IN THE INTEREST OF FLIGHT SAFETY, IT IS CRITICAL THATALL PILOTS/FLIGHT CREW MEMBERS REPORT ANY OBSERVED FALLING SPACEDEBRIS TO THE APPROPRIATE ATC FACILITY TO INCLUDE POSITION, ALTITUDE, TIME, AND DIRECTION OF DEBRIS OBSERVED. FAA HEADQUARTERS,AIR TRAFFIC SYSTEMS OPERATIONS SECURITY, 202-493-5107, IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY. !FDC 8/5536 NOTHING US.. FLIGHT RESTRICTION. , US. PURSUANT TO <> Did just find this tho, at http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_8_5536.xml, so it was apparently issued Feb 20.

FDC 2008 5536 2008-02-20T19:06:00 8/5536 3be017f1-3185-43c1-baa4-de82b3e3f576 UTC UTC UNITED STATES Not SPECIAL RAS 410 HEI 0 FT HEI 0 FT NOTAM INCLUDE INCLUDE TRUE COMPOSITE TRUE FALSE ARTCC AFSS !FDC 8/5536 FDC SPECIAL NOTICE ..THIS NOTAM REPLACES FDC 8/5501 DUE TO ADDITION OF CONTACT NUMBER. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL 0803092300 UTC. AIRCRAFT ARE ADVISED THAT A POTENTIAL HAZARD MAY OCCUR DUE TO REENTRYOF SATELLITE USA-193 DEBRIS INTO THE EARTHS ATMOSPHERE. FURTHER NOTAMS WILL BE ISSUED IF MORE INFORMATION BECOMES AVAILABLE. IN THE INTEREST OF FLIGHT SAFETY, IT IS CRITICAL THATALL PILOTS/FLIGHT CREW MEMBERS REPORT ANY OBSERVED FALLING SPACEDEBRIS TO THE APPROPRIATE ATC FACILITY TO INCLUDE POSITION, ALTITUDE, TIME, AND DIRECTION OF DEBRIS OBSERVED. FAA HEADQUARTERS,AIR TRAFFIC SYSTEMS OPERATIONS SECURITY, 202-493-5107, IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY. !FDC 8/5536 NOTHING US.. FLIGHT RESTRICTION. , US. PURSUANT TO <>

]]> By: John Paradox http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/comment-page-1/#comment-73837 John Paradox Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:13:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/03/01/pilots-watch-out-for-space-debris/#comment-73837 <i>And, when a pilot sees a big chunk of junk coming directly toward him what should he do…pray?</i> And keep an eye out for <a HREF="http://imdb.com/title/tt0348913/" rel="nofollow">Mandy Patinkin</a> J/P=? And, when a pilot sees a big chunk of junk coming directly toward him what should he do…pray?

And keep an eye out for Mandy Patinkin

J/P=?

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