[Q]
“Well, what do we expect? This is a group of people who sincerely believe God sent himself sown to be horribly murdered on the cross in order to save his own creation from his own divine wrath. Yikes.” [/Q]

(How do you create “quote blocks” here anyway??)

Yikes indeed.

People who think that way should NOT be running your country. Period.

Indeed; I hate to sound anti-democratic but, really, for the sake of everyone sane people who think like that should be denied the right to vote on grounds of mental incompetance. Do we let people who think they’re Napoleon vote? (I hope not!) Why then allow others who believe in invisible sky-daddies to do so …

*****
# StevoR on 29 Mar 2008 at 8:04 am
Pcarini :

[quote] 3) Another ton of bile against “liberal activist judges” will be added to the already very sizable and foul heap by the most extreme conservatives and _all_ the ID supporters. The judge in question will be conservative, of course, and consider herself to be a constructionist. [/Unquote]

Hmm.. the worry is that aren’t the Kristian Krooks’n'Krazies under (or over?) Bush II (“George the Insane”) appointing Judges – who agree with them ratehr than reality?

The damage this current US administration is doing its nation – and the rest of the planet is catastrophic and long-lasting…

I seriously fear that the anti-science, anti-peace Retardican party will win the ’09 election ..

(which should be brought forward and George II should be impeached & tried for war crimes over the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq .. but no Democratic leader seems to have the spine to ensure this happens!)

… because of the bitter Clinton-Obama in-fighting.

I really fear Old Man MCCain will be your new Presiking (tehnew powesr make President an inadequate description of the job..) & Huckabee his Veep & that McCain’ll suffer a heart attack, stroke or chronic incontinence or whatever & die in office leaving Huckabee or suchlike lunatic in power.

Then they’ll ensure the damage of Bush II gets worse and garantee the fall of the USA. Taking much of the West down with it.

I can seriously see that taking place. Our civilisation – Western civilisation is at stake here. The alliance of totaliatarian Muslim & Christian extremists and war-mongers – (the Late?) bin laden & Bush teh Shrub is winning the war against reason & the world.

The USA very badly needs to change direction – the rest of the Earth needs Amercia to change direction before its too late.

My hope is that Hillary sees sense & quits the race – or accepts Vice-Presidency nomination under Obama. That Obama wins & becomes President. That the US then ends its needless wars on “terror” (conducted by using govt terrorism of its own) and starts coming to its senses everywhere.

I wish I could say I had enough confidence in the US population to think they’ll do that.

I really wish they’d been smart enough NOT to vote for Bush the Mad the last time ..

The damage is severe – and is getting worse every day that Bush & his Neo-Cons hold power .

Please America! Impeach Bush jr! Vote Obama

End your wars & start climbing out of this huge hole you’ve dug yourselves before it becomes your grave.

& please understand too that I say all this not because I dislike America but rather because I love America – the old Good America anyway …

[quote] 3) Another ton of bile against “liberal activist judges” will be added to the already very sizable and foul heap by the most extreme conservatives and _all_ the ID supporters. The judge in question will be conservative, of course, and consider herself to be a constructionist. [/Unquote]

Hmm.. the worry is that aren’t the Krazies under (or over?) Bush II (George the Insane”) apointing Judghes -who agree with them?

The damage this current US administration is doing its nation – and the rest of the planet is catastrophic and long-lasting…

I seriously fear that the anti-science, anti-peace Retardican party will win the 09 election (it should be brought forward and George II should be impeached & tried for warcriems over teillegal invasionand occupationof Iraq .. but no Democratic leader seems to have the spine to ensure this happens!) because of the Clinton-Obama infighting.

I really fear Old Man MCCain will be your new Presiking & Huckabee his Veep & that McCain’ll suffer aheartattack, stroke or chronic incontinece or whatever & fall out of office leaving Huckabee or suchlike lunatic in power. Then they’ll ensure teh damage of Bush II gets worse and garantee the fall of the USA. Taking much of the West down with it.

I can seriously see that taking place. Ourcivilisation -wWesterncivilisationis at stake here. The alliance of totaliatarian Muslim & Christian extremists and war-mongers – (the Late?) bin laden & Bush teh Shrub is winning the war against reason & the world.

My hope is that Hillary sees sense & quits the race – or accepts Vice-Presidency nomination under Obama. That Obama wins & becoems President. That the US then ends its needless wars on “terror” (conducted by using govt terrorism of its own) and starts coming to its senses everywhere.

I wish I could say I had enough confidence in the US population to do that. I really wish they’d been smart enough NOT to vote for Bush the Mad the last time ..

The damage is severe – and is getting worse every day that Bush & his Neo-Cons hold power .

Please Americia! Impeach Bush jr! Vote Obama

End your wars & start climbing out of this huge hole you’ve dug yourselves before it becomes your grave.

& please understand too that I say all this not because I dislike America but rather because I love America – the old Good America anyway …

[i] “Is there a glossary somewhere? ”

WWTDD = What Would Tyler Durden Do? [/i]

Thanks!

Apparently Kent Hovind actually tried to fill out his tax papers using creationist mathematics.

1+1=3 for sufficiently large values of 1.

So I’ll be wittiness number one. Who wants to be two?

Listening to those people is like being in those childhood nightmares where nobody understands you or where you want to run away without getting anywhere.

These people support and promote anti-reasoning (it’s faith, baby!) by reasoning. Then they claim that their reasoning -explaining why reasoning is a bad thing- is superior to anything else. They prefer non logic over logic while trying to sound logic and claim their logic is superior, because it is not logic.

Those people insist being extremely skeptical but reject the scientific method. The biggest skeptical framework human thought ever produced, where every single word is weighed by numerous other people who only want to prove you wrong. To eternity. They are even funded to expose your pink color. Worldwide.

Of course God is a different story. If he says 1+1=3 then 1+1 is 3. Not? Have faith, baby. And wire me some money. His logic is impossible. Love is everything. As long it is heterosexual of course.

1) Some teacher will immediately use this to start teaching ID on the pretext that it’s a scientific theory, alongside an ‘objective’ look at the Theory of Evolution which focuses on all the places where it’s missing data.

2) Soon after a lawsuit will be brought to stop the teaching of this junk. The first sane judge this case comes across will make halt the teaching of ID. I’m not sure if the law could be struck down as unconstitutional the way it’s worded, it appears to be so carefully worded as to not have any _legal_ effect, in my completely ignorant legal opinion.

3) Another ton of bile against “liberal activist judges” will be added to the already very sizable and foul heap by the most extreme conservatives and _all_ the ID supporters. The judge in question will be conservative, of course, and consider herself to be a constructionist. The judge will be gleefully and shamelessly slandered by the far right commentators and, if she’s Christian, they will declare that she’s not a “true Christian”. (God help us if she’s not Christian… I’m not quite ready for actual fighting in the streets)

According to Article III(3) of the Constitution,

“Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.”

Although I agree that attempts to insert ID into school curriculum is an attempt to circumvent the establishment clause, it is not treason.

Also, though I didn’t quite say it clearly enough, the Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania is a U.S. District Court with jurisdiction only over its particular district. Any decision it makes is a precedent only for lower courts. It does not set a precedent for other district courts, nor for the higher courts. Only courts below it (i.e., state courts) must defer to the judgment in Kitzmiller v. Dover.

If a similar case were to arise in any other district court, the presiding judge is not required to give any deference whatsoever to the Dover decision. That being said, there is substantial evidence from which to draw in that case, and that evidence could be brought to bear in any other cases that may arise.

Although I do not, in any way, agree with what the DI and other ID supporters are saying or trying to do, they have every right to say what they want.

As for thinking that we should let a military tribunal decide the matter, that is a step down a dangerous path. If some group begins speaking about something and promotes its agenda, and we declare them enemies of the State and use the military to police the matter, we run the risk of becoming victims of the same procedures later on. Where does the line get drawn? What’s to stop someone from using the same tactic when they disagree with us? Frankly, I don’t want the military deciding matters of law. Bad things happen then.

Well, what do we expect? This is a group of people who sincerely believe God sent himself sown to be horribly murdered on the cross in order to save his own creation from his own divine wrath. Yikes.

The court of Dover was a federal court and therefore it’s federal precedent. Any higher court could reverse it, yes. But none has. Considering this is the only federal judgment on the matter it’s the only view of the federal government.

Aside from that, if it is an attempt to undermine the constitution then it is treason, so even if dover does not apply, the next question would be “Does the first amendment prevent this and by doing this are they trying to undermine it.”

I’d suggest that since some might not say that’s totally clear that we allow the military tribunal to decide. They really need to be declared a rogue element of the state government and an enemy operating within US borders as soon as possible. This is necessary to invoke the full force of constitutional powers to destroy the threat.

It’s not like the southern states have not pulled this crap before. They ought to learn their lesson the first time that undermining the republic is only going to amount to a heap of trouble.

The funny thing is that religious folks too are convinced that the universe follows a set of rules, but they think the rules are set by a ruler who is not bound to rules. Except for that rule of course.

Nature is seems too complex and well orchestrated to have natural causes? Well, what about this god figure then? Ah, I see. Of course he was not designed. He just happened to be there for an eternity in a big nothing. Makes sense.

Hey, why not introduce 1+1=3 in your classrooms. Just don’t be overly surprised when China beats the US in science, technology en economics within, say, the next 20 years. Just think about it as something divine.

Er .. say again sorry. Some of us here (well, @ least 1 – me! ) don’t know *all* these acronymns yet.

Is there a glossary somewhere? ”

= What Would Tyler Durden Do?

Now I’m sure we’ll get a few folks who may read this & be tempted to “argue” (somehow!) for creationism / ID as science or some how equivalent to science.

Well for those folks I will suggest they try slowly reading and understanding this :

http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/02/18/is-science-faith-based/

Its from this BA forum / blog.

I also suggest they read the works of Carl Sagan, Isaac Asimov and others. (Spinoza, Bertrand Russell, Richard Dawkins, Phil Plait, etc … )

Oh, & please don’t blame me for this post, folks! After all the Bad Astronomer did ask :

“The next time someone tries to tell you that science is just as faith-based as religion, or that evolution is a religion, point them here. [The link above.] Perhaps the evidence of science may sway them. Perhaps not; it’s difficult to reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. But the next time they get on a computer, maybe they’ll take a slightly more critical look at it, and wonder if its workings are a miracle, or the results of brilliant minds over many generations toiling away at the scientific method.”

Well BA I did!

Even if this is a bit of an .. ah .. pre-emptive strike!

She sends back cordial replies telling me about the GOP mandate and how my views can basically be gently placed where the sun don’t shine.

Contacting her is a waste of time and only gets an insult in return.

The problem with Florida is nobody is from here and nobody cares. The state is becoming a vast wasteland thanks to land developers and other “entrepreneurs” who are basically here to rape the place and leave rich.

“Florida, WWTDD?”

Er .. say again sorry. Some of us here (well, @ least 1 – me! ) don’t know *all* these acronymns yet.

Is there a glossary somewhere?

Please could ‘Fight Club man’ or somebody else here put me out of my misery (Ooh shouldn’t tempt ‘em! ) & tell me what that means?

I know LOL (Laughing Out Loud), BTW (By The Way), IMHO (in My Humble Opinion), ROTFLMAO (Rolling On The Floor Laughin’ My Ass Off) & some others but not that one .. :-~

When I look (from my home in Oz) at the state of the United States – & the world since the US pushes that so hard well ..

.. I sometimes feel like I’m watching a terrible car crash (the sort where a little kid and a pregant lady pushing a baby in a pram are all run over by a semi-trailer type accident ..) happening in slow motion, right in front of me …

… & even as I try to shout a warning nobody hears or looks and the truck driver (Is he mad?! Is he suicidal!? Is he ..what!??) guns the engine and aims the truck right at the victims.

***
NB. In case its not blatantly obvious symbolism, I’ll use the sledge-hammer here (hey, I may be many things but subtle ain’t one! ) & note :

Truck driver = Bush Jr & the NeoCons, Relig. Wrong & Israeli lobbies

Victims = America & the rest of the Planet.

***

Now I don’t mean to offend anyone here.
(Believe it or not. I just have strong opinions and express ‘em strongly too.)

But, by Jove, I *do* want y’all to wake up & really think!

If any of what I’ve written above is useful to anyone who agrees or even half-agrees with what I’m saying .. Please use it as best suits.

———————————

Please Americans, come to your senses! The rest of the planet is missing the *old* you …

“I guess Florida legislators are jealous that Oklahoma is hogging all the ridicule.”

Hey! don’t push states of Amercia! Don’t push! Don’t push! There’s plenty of ridicule to go around! Enough for y’all, don’t worry!

Matter of fact the rest of the planet is still laughing at your nation-wide pratfull in electing the village idiot of some oily ranch in Texas as your first intellectually challenged hereditary President that last time ..

… Oh wait, no, they’re not laughing after all, they’re crying in disbeleif that even your mob could be so exasperatingly; self-destructively dumb. ,,,,,,

———————–

Please Americans, come to your senses! The rest of the planet is missing the *old* you. Y’know, the one that went to the Moon, that was the home and love of the likes of Martin Luther King, Isaac Asimov and Carl Sagan. That didn’t torture people, didn’t invade countries and threaten to invade others just ‘coz they disliked their govts or wanted their oil.

Y’know _that_ America. The one that used to have a constituition that meant something, that believed in equality, freedom and civil liberties. The America that was coming out of dark ages of Scopes trials against evolution and witchraft trails at Salem and that all that religious intolerance and fundamentalist stuff. The old USA -where did that go? Where’s _that_ good ole US of A when its really, really needed?

… & what’s with this new US of A the one created by that (late?) whacko O-sam-whatsiname whose living (perhaps?) in cave somewhere far way and whose worst recent act was a nasty video message. Oh’ &his really nasty best buddy that took it all down from the inside, liekEmperor Palpatine, whatsizname again – Bush? Cheney? Rumsfeld? How dare that nation of torturers and fools, that nation going back into the dark ages, back into Dark Ages fundamentalist bigotry, that nation of people defecating bricks at the sight of anyone slightly different .. How dare this *new* USA even call itself by the same name as the good USA, the old one!!!

Please Americans, come to your senses! The rest of the planet is missing the *old* you …

S2010 – Relating to I Believe License Plates (http://www.flsenate.gov/cgi-bin/view_page.pl?Tab=session&Submenu=1&FT=D&File=sb2010.html&Directory=session/2008/Senate/bills/billtext/html/)

Of note in this piece of legislation is that fees from these plates will be distributed to Faith in Teaching, Inc., an organization that promotes faith-based education. Although this is only one piece of legislation out of many other, non-faith/education based pieces she has introduced, it does provide some background for framing the intent of the “Academic Freedom Act.”

I believe that, if the bill does not get shut down outright, additional language establishing the definition of “scientific” within the context of the legislation would be in order.

My hope that this bill will be stopped before it ever gets to a vote when some intelligent legislator brings up the simple question “what problem, exactly, does this bill address? And is there really a need for it?”. That SHOULD be the end of the line.

Unfortunately, we’ll have to wait and see if the legislature in Florida is indeed intelligent enough to quash it.

It’s not the “scientific information” bit that’s bad, although it will open up a whole new set of lawsuits over whether ID or creation science is actually science. Assuming the judge isn’t a moron, those are cases we will win. It’s the bit about not penalising someone for subscribing to a particular point of view on evolution. Again, there is a possible way that can be interpreted favourably to science (“I don’t believe in evolution, but here’s what evolutionary theory says” would be fine, for instance). But inevitably it will be interpreted by creationist leaning schools/teachers/parents/organisations) to mean that someone simply saying evolution is wrong, or making factually incorrect statements about aspects of evolution, should not be penalised. Those are cases we probably wouldn’t win, except on a constitutional basis. The wording of the legislation is much more direct.