I got an email from the folks at moblog.tv asking my opinion on a man-on-the-street video they did asking people if they were worried that the Large Hadron Collider would destroy the planet. In fact, it’s an interesting video. It’s done for humor, of course, but the host gives a decent explanation of the very low odds (like, try winning the lottery a hundred times in a row) of this happening, and the replies are (mostly) fun.
The scientist guy is great; he has good answers. The gentleman who says the public doesn’t understand this enough to make a decision on it was right on. The Christian woman who said she doesn’t care much because she thinks people go to heaven when they die scared me quite a bit. The woman who didn’t know what a black hole was didn’t let that stop her from commenting on how scientists "have ideologies which may affect how they look at things."
Peachy.
Anyway, this was a non-random sample of people, but it’s still interesting. Maybe we can do the same thing when I’m in England and then at CERN. I suspect locals in Geneva know more about the LHC than the average American… especially when the average media outlet in America only talks about the LHC when crackpots claim it’ll destroy the Earth. As usual, I am reminded that my work will never be done.
April 11th, 2008 at 8:42 am
1) The correct phrase is ‘person on the street’.
2) I just read this quote from theoretician Garrett Lisi regarding his ‘E8′ model:
“This is an all-or-nothing kind of theory – it’s either going to be exactly right, or spectacularly wrong. I’m the first to admit this is a long shot. But it ain’t over till the LHC sings.”
April 11th, 2008 at 8:47 am
“As usual, I am reminded that my work will never be done.”
Job security!
April 11th, 2008 at 8:49 am
“The Christian woman who said she doesn’t care much because she thinks people go to heaven when they die scared me quite a bit”
…I agree. It creeps me out… That’s quite “christian scientist” of her. You know, the folks that kill kids by only praying against their illnesses? They think it doesn’t matter that they die since life is just a … how can I say… unimportant since the other life is eternal.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:11 am
The American media would care a lot more if Paris Hilton and Britney Spears dropped by the LHC’s opening night soiree…
…and it would be big news if they flashed their coochies when they were getting out of the limo.
THAT’S what constitutes news in the US.
The tell tale sign is when CNN.com copies fark.com on a regular basis.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Well, strictly speaking, they don’t kill kids. They just deny them the opportunity to live. A sin of omission, not commission. Not that that excuses it in any way shape or form; I think such parents ought to be stripped of their parental rights, frankly, because they’re obviously not meeting their responsibilities as parents.
But yeah, that sort of response is kinda spooky. And I’m a Christian who does believe that there is an afterlife, and that God will save us. It doesn’t matter if scientists might create a black hole which could destroy the Earth, because we’ll get saved anyway? That’s like saying that this entire life on Earth is irrelevant, and that’s an astonishingly nihilistic attitude, especially from someone who sounds suspiciously like a Rapture-believer. She probably just doesn’t want to take the time to think about anything challenging, and that disturbs me greatly.
Of course, she could just have a very dry wit, know that any black holes created by the LHC will be harmless, and be having a bit of fun with the interviewer. But that seems unlikely.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:18 am
BA said:
“… especially when the average media outlet in America only talks about the LHC when crackpots claim it’ll destroy the Earth. As usual, I am reminded that my work will never be done.”
Um . . . that could be read two different ways.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:33 am
The Christian girl made me laugh, and then sigh… I’m not afraid of dying for totally different reasons, but then again I take little to no comfort in the concept of eternal praise and bliss. The conflicts of life make it worth living. Anywhooo… I’m all for the LHC, even if it stood a good chance of making a black hole. Like one of the guys on the street said, “we’re all going to die anyways.” It’s comforting to accept your mortality.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Call me cynical, but how many US pits could tell you where Geneva even is?
April 11th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Michelle obviously has only a very, very vague knowledge of christian science. I was raise in that church and got out as soon as I could. As far as will it destroy the earth? – wouldn’t it be funny if all those “B” sci-fi movies were right? “There are some things, Dr. Frankenstein… etc.”
April 11th, 2008 at 9:58 am
It’s good to have a job, especially one that appears to be your calling as well.
Keep up the good work.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:59 am
[raises hand] Me, me! Geneva (IL) is right next door to Batavia, where Fermilab is located. Oh, you meant the one in Switzerland. Sorry.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:59 am
It would be great if it made black holes, because then there would be an immediate window to new physics like hidden dimensions.
AFAIU the thing is that the scattering cross section of such a black hole would be much too small to gobble up a decent particle. I think, I haven’t checked the physics. (Cross sections … urgh!)
April 11th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Chances are good that the person you are going to interview in Geneva will be one of the 50 000 visitors CERN had last weekend.
It was impessing to see so many “average” people beeing interested in science (and big machines that might destroy their home planet
).
April 11th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Eat Me!!!!!
April 11th, 2008 at 11:28 am
The most “American” perspective was given by that last woman. When asked what she thought about the possibility that “we could all die.”: “Sounds interesting, but I have a meeting—”
Oh, well, if you have a meeting….
April 11th, 2008 at 11:30 am
I don’t understand how you can have a microsopic black hole. I thought black holes had to be massive enough so that gravity is so strong that not even light can escape.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Xav0971, a black hole can be any size. It’s not it’s mass that matters as much as it’s circumference. The smaller the mass, the smaller the volume in which it needs to be compressed.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
It would be cool if it produced something dangerous. I’ve been kinda bored. But the universe could still have the last laugh. If they don’t find Higgs, physicists will be scratching their heads for a long, long time.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
xav0971: According to GR, black holes are point-like objects. If the black hole is very light, the radius where the escape velocity equals the velocity of light will be tiny. Consequently, it is a very small target to hit for, say, an electron (remember, the electron has to be captured in that small volume around the singularity). Now, if the black hole cannot swallow matter, then it cannot grow. Without doing any calculations, I expect the black hole would act like some exotic particle. Unless of course it evaporates completely.
Incidentally, if I had any say in how I am to shed this mortal coil, it would be “Swallowed by Black Hole”.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
I think that even there will be black holes, they will evaporate quickly and do not do anything.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
That’s a lot of “like” BS around the 1min 20sec mark.
April 11th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
The science guy was good, yeah. That Christian scared me! That said, I was playing this video with my parents (Jesusphiles) in the room, and they’d never heard of this “LHC scientific idiocy” stuff and are now convinced they are going to die… They think the scientists are utterly irresponsible, but that the Christian woman’s faith was an inspiration.
Oh well. I had a laugh!
“I had a scientist friend who predicted that one day the whole universe would be devoured by black holes…”
Then he’s an idiot… Isn’t he? Not that I care about insulting anyone; Ragnorok is coming, and I have a date with Loki.
~Chris, UK.
April 11th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
To be fair to the Christian woman (albeit grudgingly), there is no real difference between her position and my own atheist position that we do not have to worry about the destruction of the world. Only people who believe in hell and suspect they are headed that way have reason to be nervous.
April 11th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
I believe in Hell. It manifests itself the day after vacation at about 10am.
At least it is not eternal.
April 11th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
I was disturbed by the woman on the stairs who, when asked if she believed the scientists would keep us all safe, said yes. While I’m not particularly worried about the LHC experiment, I am reminded of disastrous flubs in science. In particular is the scientist at Los Alamos in the late 1940s who made a mistake while “tickling the dragon’s tail” and tore a pile of radioactive material apart with his bare hands to save the others in the room. Scientists can make mistakes just like everyone else (which is the whole point of repeatable experiments and peer review). Sorry, I don’t hand anyone blind trust.
Scientists can have their off days and can be subject to the psychology of “group think.” When you have scientists in the same field but outside an organization come to the same conclusion (that any nano-black holes will “evaporate,” that the world won’t turn into a mass of strangelets) then that carries more weight.
What the Christian woman was saying isn’t quite the way some here have understood it. Go back and listen to her again. The reporter asked “Aren’t you worried about the end of the world?”
Now, a quick synopsis of Christian belief is that one day this current world will be destroyed and that there will be a new one. Humanity will not cease to exist. The term “Heaven” is commonly used, even though Christian belief ultimately puts humanity on this new earth and not floating in some ethereal realm.
Knowing this, the Christian woman’s answer isn’t that we’re all going to die and end up in Heaven, anyway (note that the first part is the attitude of the nihilistic gentleman who said we’re all going to die, anyway). Her answer is essentially that since humanity will not cease to exist, then why should a Christian fear the end of this present world?
Some will no doubt still find this disturbing. But at least be disturbed by the actual meaning of what she said and not a misinterpretation. And really: A Christian who’s faith in God is strong shouldn’t fear the incessant clamor of this thing or that thing will result in the destruction of the Earth.
April 11th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
What I find disturbing is smart people being disturbed by what some Christian woman says who is clearly ignorant of certain complicated science issues. She is harmless. Most people have no idea, and don’t care what a particle accelerator is, nor a black hole, so naturally when being asked about it, they are going to give ignorant answers, religious or not.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
It’s not a threat because with blackholes at this scale and energy, gravity isn’t the dominant force.
April 11th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
So, I caught the pilot of The Sarah Jane Adventures tonight. Um, I can’t wait for you to comment on what they have poor K-9 doing.
PS: Mr.Smith is hot. >_>
April 11th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
# Christian X Burnhamon
said
“1) The correct phrase is ‘person on the street’.
[...]”
Actually ‘person’ is clearly sexist, obviously you should use ‘perchild’!
April 12th, 2008 at 6:32 am
Chris H posts:
No. Over extremely long periods of time (quadrillions of years), every object in a galaxy tends to wind up in its growing central black hole due to collisions and multi-body effects, and over even longer time scales, the black holes evaporate through Hawking radiation, so that eventually you have a universe consisting entirely of photons.
My own belief is that the Second Coming will happen first, but that ain’t science.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:14 am
Just in case it goes haywire I petitition that they turn it on in the fall. Preferably on a Monday.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:51 am
[...] Cheneys Sonnenbrille. Themen sind auch eine Straßen-Umfrage unter US-Bürgern bzgl. Schwarzer Löcher aus Genf sowie die überraschende Entdeckung der USS Enterprise in einem ägyptischen [...]
April 12th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Barton, assuming supersymmetry exists, proton decay will take care of ordinary matter before everything gets swallowed by black holes (i.e., protons to pions and positrons, pions to photons, and electron-positron annihilation to photons). The timescale for this should be at least 10^32 years.
April 12th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Thank you KC, for being reasonable.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Yes, Mandy! K9 will save us!
April 12th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
I noticed that the girl interviewer didn’t know how to pronounce “infinitesimal”. She kept saying “infan-tesmal”…
Oh well, I do know where Geneva & the LHC are and I’d throw the switch in a femtosecond. Anybody know when the kickoff is?
Higgs in the crosshairs! W00T!
Rich in Charlottesville
April 12th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Stephen Hawking, yes, THAT Stephen Hawking, made one of his annual–more or less–visits to Caltech in Pasadena Wednesday, April 9, 2008 and gave a prerecorded talk on black holes to the general public that evening. He had previously agreed to answer five questions from entries submitted earlier by Caltech students (how cool is that? What would YOU ask him?). According to a Los Angeles Times article (April 12, 2008, page A12) he needed two days to program the answers into his computer. Anyway, one question was about the LHC black hole controversy. His last paragraph, word-for-word from the newspaper: “Particles from collisions far greater than those in the LHC occur all the time in cosmic rays, but nothing terrible happens.” Simple, to the point, clearly understood by even the most resolute unbeliever! Can you not love Hawking? Let the LHC rip!
April 13th, 2008 at 1:24 am
Aw come on! Give us Christians a chance. There are many millions of us and science tries everything to knock our beliefs. But many scientists have been and are believers in one religion or another. The LHC is a great idea and I hope the Higgs is found; it’s has beeen an ‘article of faith’ among scientists for a while now. They thought for some time that Higgs himself was a bit flaky! There’s room for us all. By the way I am a firm believer in science and the scientific method, but, and you’ll think this a delicious irony, I don’t like very dogmatic statements whether from scientists or religionists of whatever stripe. I don’t KNOW!! Do YOU?
April 13th, 2008 at 2:38 am
I “know” that religion does more harm than good, just as certainly as you “know” the opposite.
Religion should be banned from coming anywhere near science, because its nature is corruption of reason. Science doesn’t try to do anything to religion, other than perhaps describe it. Religion, on the other hand, is attacking and polluting science with garbage like ID.
Keep it in your churches, I don’t want to touch it with a ten foot stick.
April 13th, 2008 at 4:24 am
Reply to KC:
There’s a big difference between LHC and the critical mass measurement experiments you’re referring to.
They knew fully well that manipulating a just-barely-critical assembly of plutonium inside a neutron reflector, all up close and personal, by hand, to try and make a critical mass measurement was very, very dangerous – exactly why they did it that way, I don’t know.
The safety concerns surrounding LHC have been very thoroughly studied by physicists – and the consensus is that it’s completely safe.
April 13th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
> I don’t KNOW!! Do YOU?
Actually, yes I do.
I know for a fact God does not exist. How do I know that? …. He told me.
April 13th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
> Keep it in your churches, I don’t want to touch it with a ten foot stick.
I’d prefer it was simply abolished.
OK, that’s completely unrealistic. But perhaps it could fall by the wayside just as belief in many things have.
We’ve seen slavery discarded. Astrology has been turned into the joke it is. Nobody thinks the earth is supported on a turtle’s back. We’ve rejected absurd ideas like witches exist and can create thunderstorms and transform humans into animals. We’ve set aside blood letting as a therapy. We have tossed aside ideas of “racial supremacy.”
Oh, sure. There are still some people who believe in some of those things. But they are in the outer fringe of civilized society.
With any luck, religion itself will fall into that realm soon.
On the other hand, a majority of Americans believe Jesus is coming back. Soon.
~sigh~
April 18th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
From all the doomsday scenarios, this seems the coolest. For once, it will bring humanity “together” heheeh
April 19th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
32 days left.
Status: 19.04.08 – 32 days left.
http://www.notepad.ch
Save the universe.
Timeline
ISSUE Large explosion: 2005
ISSUE Magnet failure: 2007
TEST Test Sector warmup/coopdown cycle: 2007
QA ISSUE 7 of 8 segments failed cool-down tests
CANCELLED Complete warmup/cooldown cycle, Low power runs
INIT System init (1. Time Beam injection): 21. May 2008
INIT Cold Date: 1. June 2008
INIT (1. Time Protons used): 15. June 2008
DOCU New safety report not released
START System activation (1. Time Circulating beams): July 2008
RISK Black hole (First collisions: August 2008
PROD System ready: October 2008
HIGH RISK EXPERIMENT Elevated black hole risk: 21. December 1212
Important note:
These are not official dates. No official dates where available to us yet. CERN should publish them.
These dates are based on news, opinions and insider info. Additionally, I try my best. I am not a scientist – just a citizen. I will update this information and all information on http://www.notepad.ch as soon as new information becomes available. The blogs at http://www.notepad. have been created on the 14 of April, that is the date I realized that the black hole danger at the CERN’s LHC is for real. My goal is to let you decide if there is an issue with the ‘go to prod’ of the LHC – or not. That is the reason this site consists just of News, opinions, forum messages etc. I always named the source of the quote, did mention in each article that this is a quote from etc. My assumption is that this is the legal and fair way to quote without changing the context. Please tell me if I am wrong and I will immediately correct it. Thank you.
XX days refers to the initialisation of the LHC. This is the date I currently think is right, but may be corrected at any time. It was pointed out that at this date the risk of black hole creation will not be elevated yet, which is through. In XX days I’m referring to the start date of the potential risk to create a black hole. I also wanted to have a real date, in order to put some urgency on the issue. Which it has.
http://www.notepad.ch
April 21st, 2008 at 3:19 pm
I am convinced that the LHC will not destroy the world, and I know the odds are infinesimally small, but exactly what are the odds? I have heard 1 in 10^73, does that sound right? Or even lower?