<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Europe: Day 1</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 03:11:39 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Nigel Depledge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-83702</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Depledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 16:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/#comment-83702</guid>
		<description>Hah!  Serves me right for trusting internet resources.  Thanks, Thomas.

Still, Big Ben is the name of the bell, not the name of the tower.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hah!  Serves me right for trusting internet resources.  Thanks, Thomas.</p>
<p>Still, Big Ben is the name of the bell, not the name of the tower.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Siefert</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-83701</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Siefert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/#comment-83701</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; OK, hereâ??s the final word on the tower that houses Big Ben. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

No it&#039;s not...

&lt;blockquote&gt; The building to which the tower is attached is the Palace of Westminster. The palace contains the Houses of Parliament, but that is not the name of the building. The tower is St Stephenâ??s Tower. The clock, AFAIK, has no name. The large bell that is housed in St Stephenâ??s tower is called Big Ben. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Wrong, it&#039;s only known as &quot;The Clock Tower&quot; St. Stephens Tower is the middle tower.

http://www.parliament.uk/about/images/exterior/ststephens.cfm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> OK, hereâ??s the final word on the tower that houses Big Ben. </p></blockquote>
<p>No it&#8217;s not&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p> The building to which the tower is attached is the Palace of Westminster. The palace contains the Houses of Parliament, but that is not the name of the building. The tower is St Stephenâ??s Tower. The clock, AFAIK, has no name. The large bell that is housed in St Stephenâ??s tower is called Big Ben. </p></blockquote>
<p>Wrong, it&#8217;s only known as &#8220;The Clock Tower&#8221; St. Stephens Tower is the middle tower.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.parliament.uk/about/images/exterior/ststephens.cfm" rel="nofollow">http://www.parliament.uk/about/images/exterior/ststephens.cfm</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nigel Depledge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-83700</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Depledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/#comment-83700</guid>
		<description>Doug Ellison said:
&quot;I find people getting all riled about ‘real’ English or how Americans have ruined English hilarious. English is a mongrel language. We’ve stolen, bastardised, concatenated, bifurcated, derived, deviated, smashed, clashed, bashed, mashed, merged, splurged and generally ruined languages from most of Europe to end up with ‘Proper’ English.&quot;

Quite right, Doug.  I would recommend &quot;Mother Tongue&quot; by Bill Bryson, in which he uncovers that many of the &quot;Americanisms&quot; that are criticised in the UK actually started here, got shipped over the Atlantic, and then fell out of favour here.

Since English has borrowed from so many other languages, the pronunciation of that last letter has remained &quot;zed&quot; over here (in common with several other European languages) and become &quot;zee&quot; in America.  Thus, the name of that letter is pronounced one way in Europe and another way in America.  If I can live with &quot;zee&quot; in Americans&#039; speech, I&#039;m sure they can live with &quot;zed&quot; in Europeans&#039;.

Doug again:
&quot;Criticism of others for continuing that pattern is unjustified and hypocritical. &quot;

I would qualify this, Doug.  I agree with you up to a point, but if the change of usage obscures the meaning of a word, I would argue against it.  English has become a worldwide &lt;i&gt;lingua franca&lt;/i&gt; (I love the irony of that expression).  To retain its value as a means of communication across all sorts of boundaries, it has to retain some measure of consistency.  If, for instance, we had a word meaning one thing in Europe, another in America, yet another in Asia and so on, it will be bound to cause confusion.

The same goes for spelling.  Pronunciations are extremely idiosyncratic, but if the spelling is (mostly) consistent, people from different parts of the world can still use English to communicate.  An example used by Bill Bryson was the word &quot;girl&quot;.  In various parts of Britan and America, it is variously pronounced &quot;gerl&quot;, &quot;gel&quot;, &quot;gurrul&quot;, &quot;goil&quot;, &quot;gal&quot; and several others.  But, by retaining its spelling, it remains comprehensible (most especially, of course, in written English).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug Ellison said:<br />
&#8220;I find people getting all riled about ‘real’ English or how Americans have ruined English hilarious. English is a mongrel language. We’ve stolen, bastardised, concatenated, bifurcated, derived, deviated, smashed, clashed, bashed, mashed, merged, splurged and generally ruined languages from most of Europe to end up with ‘Proper’ English.&#8221;</p>
<p>Quite right, Doug.  I would recommend &#8220;Mother Tongue&#8221; by Bill Bryson, in which he uncovers that many of the &#8220;Americanisms&#8221; that are criticised in the UK actually started here, got shipped over the Atlantic, and then fell out of favour here.</p>
<p>Since English has borrowed from so many other languages, the pronunciation of that last letter has remained &#8220;zed&#8221; over here (in common with several other European languages) and become &#8220;zee&#8221; in America.  Thus, the name of that letter is pronounced one way in Europe and another way in America.  If I can live with &#8220;zee&#8221; in Americans&#8217; speech, I&#8217;m sure they can live with &#8220;zed&#8221; in Europeans&#8217;.</p>
<p>Doug again:<br />
&#8220;Criticism of others for continuing that pattern is unjustified and hypocritical. &#8221;</p>
<p>I would qualify this, Doug.  I agree with you up to a point, but if the change of usage obscures the meaning of a word, I would argue against it.  English has become a worldwide <i>lingua franca</i> (I love the irony of that expression).  To retain its value as a means of communication across all sorts of boundaries, it has to retain some measure of consistency.  If, for instance, we had a word meaning one thing in Europe, another in America, yet another in Asia and so on, it will be bound to cause confusion.</p>
<p>The same goes for spelling.  Pronunciations are extremely idiosyncratic, but if the spelling is (mostly) consistent, people from different parts of the world can still use English to communicate.  An example used by Bill Bryson was the word &#8220;girl&#8221;.  In various parts of Britan and America, it is variously pronounced &#8220;gerl&#8221;, &#8220;gel&#8221;, &#8220;gurrul&#8221;, &#8220;goil&#8221;, &#8220;gal&#8221; and several others.  But, by retaining its spelling, it remains comprehensible (most especially, of course, in written English).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nigel Depledge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-83699</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Depledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/#comment-83699</guid>
		<description>OK, here&#039;s the final word on the tower that houses Big Ben.

The building to which the tower is attached is the Palace of Westminster.  The palace contains the Houses of Parliament, but that is not the name of the building.  The tower is St Stephen&#039;s Tower.  The clock, AFAIK, has no name.  The large bell that is housed in St Stephen&#039;s tower is called Big Ben.

However, if you call it St Stephen&#039;s tower, only a few people will know what you are talking about, so calling it &quot;the Big Ben clock tower&quot; (or &quot;Big Ben&#039;s clock tower&quot;) is actually clearer.

However, calling the tower Big Ben is just plain out-and-out wrong.  Calling me a pedant will not change this fact.

Here&#039;s a picture of St Stephen&#039;s Tower:
http://www.artofthestate.co.uk/london_photos/st_stephens_tower.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, here&#8217;s the final word on the tower that houses Big Ben.</p>
<p>The building to which the tower is attached is the Palace of Westminster.  The palace contains the Houses of Parliament, but that is not the name of the building.  The tower is St Stephen&#8217;s Tower.  The clock, AFAIK, has no name.  The large bell that is housed in St Stephen&#8217;s tower is called Big Ben.</p>
<p>However, if you call it St Stephen&#8217;s tower, only a few people will know what you are talking about, so calling it &#8220;the Big Ben clock tower&#8221; (or &#8220;Big Ben&#8217;s clock tower&#8221;) is actually clearer.</p>
<p>However, calling the tower Big Ben is just plain out-and-out wrong.  Calling me a pedant will not change this fact.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a picture of St Stephen&#8217;s Tower:<br />
<a href="http://www.artofthestate.co.uk/london_photos/st_stephens_tower.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.artofthestate.co.uk/london_photos/st_stephens_tower.htm</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JB of Brisbane</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-83698</link>
		<dc:creator>JB of Brisbane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 03:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/#comment-83698</guid>
		<description>@Thomas Siefert -

It&#039;s not ZedZed Top... it&#039;s DoubleZed Top!
Along with Blink One-Eight-Two and Gloria ESS-te-FAHN.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Thomas Siefert -</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not ZedZed Top&#8230; it&#8217;s DoubleZed Top!<br />
Along with Blink One-Eight-Two and Gloria ESS-te-FAHN.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Paradox</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-83697</link>
		<dc:creator>John Paradox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/#comment-83697</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Two astro-docs.&lt;/i&gt;

Wouldn&#039;t that be a &quot;pair o&#039; docs&quot;?

J/P=?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Two astro-docs.</i></p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t that be a &#8220;pair o&#8217; docs&#8221;?</p>
<p>J/P=?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Quiet_Desperation</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/comment-page-1/#comment-83696</link>
		<dc:creator>Quiet_Desperation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/20/europe-day-1/#comment-83696</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Actually, in my country of “Chipozodia”&lt;/i&gt;

Wait... weren&#039;t you annexed into the Desperation Compound? Or was that the Duchy Of Bill Smith?

Man, we *really* have to update the property maps here at the Compound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Actually, in my country of “Chipozodia”</i></p>
<p>Wait&#8230; weren&#8217;t you annexed into the Desperation Compound? Or was that the Duchy Of Bill Smith?</p>
<p>Man, we *really* have to update the property maps here at the Compound.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
