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	<title>Comments on: What does a nebula look like up close?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/</link>
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		<title>By: light on earth - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82757</link>
		<dc:creator>light on earth - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82757</guid>
		<description>[...] were close enough for it to fill the sky, it would still be pale and gray.    Expert confirmation: BA Blog: What does a nebula look like up close?   [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] were close enough for it to fill the sky, it would still be pale and gray.    Expert confirmation: BA Blog: What does a nebula look like up close?   [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Pharmancy &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What Does a Nebula Look Like Up Close?</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82756</link>
		<dc:creator>Pharmancy &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What Does a Nebula Look Like Up Close?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 14:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82756</guid>
		<description>[...] Dr. Phil Plait, answers a question on what it might be like to see a nebula up close and personal.read more &#124; digg [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dr. Phil Plait, answers a question on what it might be like to see a nebula up close and personal.read more | digg [...] </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: A Nerd&#8217;s Haven / Tastee (del.icio.us) links!</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82755</link>
		<dc:creator>A Nerd&#8217;s Haven / Tastee (del.icio.us) links!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 11:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82755</guid>
		<description>[...] Bad Astronomy Blog &#187; What does a nebula look like up close? - This is a pretty interesting video about &#8212; you guessed it, what a nebula would look like up close. [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bad Astronomy Blog &raquo; What does a nebula look like up close? &#8211; This is a pretty interesting video about &#8212; you guessed it, what a nebula would look like up close. [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Clair</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82754</link>
		<dc:creator>Clair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82754</guid>
		<description>I am a perfect example of the lesson learned. I&#039;m much better looking from far away than up close!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a perfect example of the lesson learned. I&#8217;m much better looking from far away than up close!</p>
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		<title>By: MandyDax</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82753</link>
		<dc:creator>MandyDax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82753</guid>
		<description>Phil, that was wonderful :D  I started giggling part-way through when you were holding the book up to show us the nebulae you were talking about.  It&#039;s just that you reminded me of a friend&#039;s kid who likes to show people his picture book of big trucks. &quot;And this is a fire truck, and this is a dump truck, and this is a bulldozer.  That&#039;s my favorite.&quot;

On a more serious note, it really makes sense, even without the math, that you wouldn&#039;t see much from  inside a nebula.  When we photograph these using long exposures and special filters, it appears as a ring, but it&#039;s really a spheroid shell, and we only see the edges where it&#039;s the thickest.  The shell&#039;s still there within the image of the ring, but it&#039;s not visible. (I think of this as where it would be densest if we compressed it into a 2-D plane perpendicular to the line of sight, which is kind of what a photo of a tenuous nebula would tend to be.)  Also, turn the pic of the Eye of God 90° and it looks for like the Eye of Sauron. ~_^

My pick for star to visit would be... Betelgeuse comes to mind first, but at the point where it goes supernova.  Of course, that&#039;s up-close study of it as it&#039;s entering the end of its life, and then time-dilated, invulnerable ship to study the supernova itself over the course of however long it takes to get good readings of all of what&#039;s going on.  (Since this journey is fiction, I decided I&#039;m an Astronomer studying the hard data up close and personal, with all the gear that can survive a supernova and gather data without getting destroyed in the process.) It&#039;ll make a spectacular show for you us Earthlings when it goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, that was wonderful <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />   I started giggling part-way through when you were holding the book up to show us the nebulae you were talking about.  It&#8217;s just that you reminded me of a friend&#8217;s kid who likes to show people his picture book of big trucks. &#8220;And this is a fire truck, and this is a dump truck, and this is a bulldozer.  That&#8217;s my favorite.&#8221;</p>
<p>On a more serious note, it really makes sense, even without the math, that you wouldn&#8217;t see much from  inside a nebula.  When we photograph these using long exposures and special filters, it appears as a ring, but it&#8217;s really a spheroid shell, and we only see the edges where it&#8217;s the thickest.  The shell&#8217;s still there within the image of the ring, but it&#8217;s not visible. (I think of this as where it would be densest if we compressed it into a 2-D plane perpendicular to the line of sight, which is kind of what a photo of a tenuous nebula would tend to be.)  Also, turn the pic of the Eye of God 90° and it looks for like the Eye of Sauron. ~_^</p>
<p>My pick for star to visit would be&#8230; Betelgeuse comes to mind first, but at the point where it goes supernova.  Of course, that&#8217;s up-close study of it as it&#8217;s entering the end of its life, and then time-dilated, invulnerable ship to study the supernova itself over the course of however long it takes to get good readings of all of what&#8217;s going on.  (Since this journey is fiction, I decided I&#8217;m an Astronomer studying the hard data up close and personal, with all the gear that can survive a supernova and gather data without getting destroyed in the process.) It&#8217;ll make a spectacular show for you us Earthlings when it goes.</p>
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		<title>By: Thanny</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82752</link>
		<dc:creator>Thanny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82752</guid>
		<description>BA misspoke about how telescopes work.  When you look at a nebula through a telescope, you are seeing it dimmer than with your naked eye.  The higher the magnification, the dimmer it appears.

The telescope objective collects more light, but as magnification goes up, it spreads that light over a larger area.  When the magnification equals about 1/7th the aperture in millimeters, the image will be as bright as it can be - pretty much equal to naked eye brightness, with light loss due to scattering and absorption subtracted.

This is true of any extended object, including nebulae, planets, and most galaxies.  Only when the image source is too small to be resolved, and appears to be a point, will the telescope actually make it brighter.  That&#039;s the case with stars, where all the additional light collected (over the naked eye) is focused on the same area, instead of being spread out.  Increasing magnification actually makes the star brighter, too, since the atmosphere ( a very dim extended image) becomes darker.  Until your aperture goes so high that the star becomes resolved into a disc, that is.  After that, increases in aperture no longer make the star brighter than the largest aperture that still leaves it a point source.

I&#039;m sure Phil knows all this, but his comment in the video about collecting more light to make things brighter leaves the wrong impression.

The real secret to making nebulae and other extended objects fantastically bright and interesting to look at is extended exposure, as someone else pointed out.  Our eyes don&#039;t work that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BA misspoke about how telescopes work.  When you look at a nebula through a telescope, you are seeing it dimmer than with your naked eye.  The higher the magnification, the dimmer it appears.</p>
<p>The telescope objective collects more light, but as magnification goes up, it spreads that light over a larger area.  When the magnification equals about 1/7th the aperture in millimeters, the image will be as bright as it can be &#8211; pretty much equal to naked eye brightness, with light loss due to scattering and absorption subtracted.</p>
<p>This is true of any extended object, including nebulae, planets, and most galaxies.  Only when the image source is too small to be resolved, and appears to be a point, will the telescope actually make it brighter.  That&#8217;s the case with stars, where all the additional light collected (over the naked eye) is focused on the same area, instead of being spread out.  Increasing magnification actually makes the star brighter, too, since the atmosphere ( a very dim extended image) becomes darker.  Until your aperture goes so high that the star becomes resolved into a disc, that is.  After that, increases in aperture no longer make the star brighter than the largest aperture that still leaves it a point source.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure Phil knows all this, but his comment in the video about collecting more light to make things brighter leaves the wrong impression.</p>
<p>The real secret to making nebulae and other extended objects fantastically bright and interesting to look at is extended exposure, as someone else pointed out.  Our eyes don&#8217;t work that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Dziban</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82751</link>
		<dc:creator>Dziban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 16:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82751</guid>
		<description>I seem to recall more instances of your math being wrong (forgot to carry something, didn&#039;t translate from scientific notation correctly...there&#039;s been a few of them) than right, BA, so how can I trust your assertion that you &quot;did the math&quot;? For all I know you calculated how many Cheerios are in a box on average. :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I seem to recall more instances of your math being wrong (forgot to carry something, didn&#8217;t translate from scientific notation correctly&#8230;there&#8217;s been a few of them) than right, BA, so how can I trust your assertion that you &#8220;did the math&#8221;? For all I know you calculated how many Cheerios are in a box on average. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Brown</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82750</link>
		<dc:creator>Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82750</guid>
		<description>The first time I saw the Ring Nebula was through a large telescope near Riverside, Iowa (Trek fans, take note).  As Nigel Depledge said, &quot;When you look at it through a telescope, it’s just a little ring-shaped fuzzy grey thing.&quot;  Unlike textbook pictures, the Ring Nebula had no reds, no greens, no yellows, no color at all.  The Ring Nebula basically looked like a smoke ring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first time I saw the Ring Nebula was through a large telescope near Riverside, Iowa (Trek fans, take note).  As Nigel Depledge said, &#8220;When you look at it through a telescope, it’s just a little ring-shaped fuzzy grey thing.&#8221;  Unlike textbook pictures, the Ring Nebula had no reds, no greens, no yellows, no color at all.  The Ring Nebula basically looked like a smoke ring.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Webster</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82749</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Webster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 10:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82749</guid>
		<description>This video prompted me to think about a similar issue - what would it be like to be in the middle of a globular cluster like M 13? I haven&#039;t done, nor am I capable of doing the maths, but I hypothesise that the night sky might be so full of starlight that you wouldn&#039;t be able to see individual stars and wouldn&#039;t be able to see beyond the cluster. Now, if these are some of the oldest stars in the galaxy the possibility of life being around at some stage ought to be strong. But if so and if it was intelligent life perhaps the urge to look outward might not have arisen because there would be nothing to see. The inhabitants might be able to do astronomy outside the visible spectrum but might not have the motivation to do it.
Does this sound sensible?

As for the universe &quot;not being made to make us happy&quot; - made implies a maker and I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s a path you really want to go down!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This video prompted me to think about a similar issue &#8211; what would it be like to be in the middle of a globular cluster like M 13? I haven&#8217;t done, nor am I capable of doing the maths, but I hypothesise that the night sky might be so full of starlight that you wouldn&#8217;t be able to see individual stars and wouldn&#8217;t be able to see beyond the cluster. Now, if these are some of the oldest stars in the galaxy the possibility of life being around at some stage ought to be strong. But if so and if it was intelligent life perhaps the urge to look outward might not have arisen because there would be nothing to see. The inhabitants might be able to do astronomy outside the visible spectrum but might not have the motivation to do it.<br />
Does this sound sensible?</p>
<p>As for the universe &#8220;not being made to make us happy&#8221; &#8211; made implies a maker and I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s a path you really want to go down!</p>
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		<title>By: Quiet Desperation</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82748</link>
		<dc:creator>Quiet Desperation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/04/26/what-does-a-nebula-look-like-up-close/#comment-82748</guid>
		<description>Can&#039;t someone just model this on a computer somewhere already?

&lt;i&gt;“the universe isn’t built to make us happy”&lt;/i&gt;

Then we should remake it in our image. :) I&#039;ll start by modifying my little corner of reality. I&#039;ll just twaek this- oops! I collapsed the false vacuum. Oh sh-

[NO CARRIER] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t someone just model this on a computer somewhere already?</p>
<p><i>“the universe isn’t built to make us happy”</i></p>
<p>Then we should remake it in our image. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;ll start by modifying my little corner of reality. I&#8217;ll just twaek this- oops! I collapsed the false vacuum. Oh sh-</p>
<p>[NO CARRIER] </p>
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