Comments on: Phoenix will rise from the dust. Kinda. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/ I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog. Sun, 05 Jul 2009 05:15:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: John Weiss http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87166 John Weiss Thu, 08 May 2008 19:09:15 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87166 I can suggest some places to visit. The "ice giants" (Uranus and Neptune) could really use orbiter exploration. An array of atmospheric probes into Jupiter and/or Saturn to get accurate in situ data on composition and other properties Venusian cloud explorer Enceladan and Titanian orbiters Europa mission Heck, a dedicate Rings Explorer for Saturn, perhaps using the "skipper" model suggested a few times in the community A small fleet of cheaper, no-frills gravity field explorers could do a <em>lot</em> to help us out. Magnetosphere explorer for Jupiter (in situ or remote) I can suggest some places to visit.

The “ice giants” (Uranus and Neptune) could really use orbiter exploration.
An array of atmospheric probes into Jupiter and/or Saturn to get accurate in situ data on composition and other properties
Venusian cloud explorer
Enceladan and Titanian orbiters
Europa mission
Heck, a dedicate Rings Explorer for Saturn, perhaps using the “skipper” model suggested a few times in the community
A small fleet of cheaper, no-frills gravity field explorers could do a lot to help us out.
Magnetosphere explorer for Jupiter (in situ or remote)

]]> By: Quiet Desperation http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87165 Quiet Desperation Thu, 08 May 2008 15:31:44 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87165 <i>At some point, they are going to have to get to the more interesting places</i> We've had probes everywhere but Pluto, and that one is on its way. We've even landed on Titan. What do you suggest, oh so jaded one? Here's an interesting spot on Mars, especially down near the bottom. http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r03_r09/full_jpg_non_map/R08/R0801745.jpg I like the idea of a dirigible probe that can reposition itself over much further distances than a rover. At some point, they are going to have to get to the more interesting places

We’ve had probes everywhere but Pluto, and that one is on its way. We’ve even landed on Titan.

What do you suggest, oh so jaded one?

Here’s an interesting spot on Mars, especially down near the bottom.

http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r03_r09/full_jpg_non_map/R08/R0801745.jpg

I like the idea of a dirigible probe that can reposition itself over much further distances than a rover.

]]> By: tom http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87164 tom Thu, 08 May 2008 14:06:33 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87164 The neat thing about this landing is that it will be determining the composition of soil and ice formation in a perma frost like region. It is the first scout mission to study the history of water on this neibhoring planet. Check out the website and see what is hoped to happen before judging whether is a boring place or not. ;) I know it would be more exciting to send a creationist but there just wasn't enough money to send the prez up. The neat thing about this landing is that it will be determining the composition of soil and ice formation in a perma frost like region. It is the first scout mission to study the history of water on this neibhoring planet.

Check out the website and see what is hoped to happen before judging whether is a boring place or not. ;) I know it would be more exciting to send a creationist but there just wasn’t enough money to send the prez up.

]]> By: Fer http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87163 Fer Thu, 08 May 2008 12:49:10 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87163 You're right Phil... that place is somewhat boring. I'm still waiting that NASA send a probe to take photos in Valles Marineris, or Olympus Mons (Like in the documentary Cosmos, where Carl Sagan does a imaginary flyby in Valles Marineris.) But hey, it's on Mars :) Aslo, it coincides with the May Revolution, a national holiday here on Argentina. You’re right Phil… that place is somewhat boring. I’m still waiting that NASA send a probe to take photos in Valles Marineris, or Olympus Mons (Like in the documentary Cosmos, where Carl Sagan does a imaginary flyby in Valles Marineris.)

But hey, it’s on Mars :)
Aslo, it coincides with the May Revolution, a national holiday here on Argentina.

]]> By: BigBob http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87162 BigBob Thu, 08 May 2008 09:22:00 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87162 We've been looking forward to this since August when the family stood in Jetty Park and watched the Phoenix launch. Our *names* were onboard for goodness sake! When Brits book a holiday in Florida, you just have to hope that a launch will coincide with your visit. Couldn't believe our luck when STS-118 *and* Phoenix both slid right into our window. So I'll be manning the PC here when Phoenix lands at approx 00:36 BST (as it's now summer time) on the 26th. Bring on the Phoenix coverage! Bob(Big) We’ve been looking forward to this since August when the family stood in Jetty Park and watched the Phoenix launch. Our *names* were onboard for goodness sake! When Brits book a holiday in Florida, you just have to hope that a launch will coincide with your visit. Couldn’t believe our luck when STS-118 *and* Phoenix both slid right into our window.
So I’ll be manning the PC here when Phoenix lands at approx 00:36 BST (as it’s now summer time) on the 26th. Bring on the Phoenix coverage!
Bob(Big)

]]> By: Chapio http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87161 Chapio Thu, 08 May 2008 01:49:52 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87161 I really do hope that Phoenix lands safely. They are doing a risky sort of landing correct? I know it's not using airbags but using thrusters like they did during the Viking missions? Why did they decide to do that instead of using the more reliable method of air bags? Was it just too big? I really do hope that Phoenix lands safely. They are doing a risky sort of landing correct? I know it’s not using airbags but using thrusters like they did during the Viking missions? Why did they decide to do that instead of using the more reliable method of air bags? Was it just too big?

]]> By: Gavin Mendeck http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87160 Gavin Mendeck Thu, 08 May 2008 00:44:17 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/05/07/phoenix-will-rise-from-the-dust-kinda/#comment-87160 Pretty much every Mars lander to date has gone to boring places, at least, from a topographic perspective. There are some amazing features on Mars, but the ballistic cannonball-style atmospheric entry of the recent Mars landers means their landing ellipse is typically 100 km long. The engineers and scientists sure don't want to hit a canyon wall or a mountain or a huge crater rim. So the landing ellipse has to be positioned across the landscape to avoid hitting such interesting and dramatic features. Another future Mars mission, the Mars Science Laboratory, is set to launch next year and is going to come in guided instead of like a cannonball. It's center of mass is off to one side, like the Apollo return capsules of the 1960s, to provide enough lift for a guided entry. It'll use that lift for two things. One, to pull out of its dive and fly horizontal to the surface for hundreds of kilometers as it buys more time to slow down in the thin Martian atmosphere. And two, to reduce its landing ellipse size to 25 km long. The scientists are very excited as this will let them land closer to interesting places. The MSL rover should be able to drive far enough to visit any topographically challenging points of interest, if they're close enough to the ellipse. Interestingly enough, at one point Phoenix was also going to use lift to reduce its ellipse size too, but the lander was originally built almost ten years ago for another mission and didn't have much lift or enough assurance that it could safely control the direction of that lift during entry. Regardless, I'm looking forward to the first pictures on the ground above the Arctic Circle on Mars! Hopefully we can get a few soon after landing. Pretty much every Mars lander to date has gone to boring places, at least, from a topographic perspective. There are some amazing features on Mars, but the ballistic cannonball-style atmospheric entry of the recent Mars landers means their landing ellipse is typically 100 km long. The engineers and scientists sure don’t want to hit a canyon wall or a mountain or a huge crater rim. So the landing ellipse has to be positioned across the landscape to avoid hitting such interesting and dramatic features.

Another future Mars mission, the Mars Science Laboratory, is set to launch next year and is going to come in guided instead of like a cannonball. It’s center of mass is off to one side, like the Apollo return capsules of the 1960s, to provide enough lift for a guided entry. It’ll use that lift for two things. One, to pull out of its dive and fly horizontal to the surface for hundreds of kilometers as it buys more time to slow down in the thin Martian atmosphere. And two, to reduce its landing ellipse size to 25 km long. The scientists are very excited as this will let them land closer to interesting places. The MSL rover should be able to drive far enough to visit any topographically challenging points of interest, if they’re close enough to the ellipse.

Interestingly enough, at one point Phoenix was also going to use lift to reduce its ellipse size too, but the lander was originally built almost ten years ago for another mission and didn’t have much lift or enough assurance that it could safely control the direction of that lift during entry. Regardless, I’m looking forward to the first pictures on the ground above the Arctic Circle on Mars! Hopefully we can get a few soon after landing.

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