I am never ceased to be amazed at the garbage spewed by quacks the "diet supplement" industry.
The latest? Something called "Tunguska Blast!" What is it? Why, according to the website, it’s:
… a powerful dietary supplement originating from the miracle of 1908 in the Tunguska region of Russia.
In 1908, a chunk of rock 10-20 meters across exploded high in the atmosphere over a remote region of Russia, flattening trees and causing an explosion that was literally felt around the world. Called the Tunguska event (after a nearby river), it has caused endless research in the scientific community and endless nonsense in the antiscientific one.
What does this have to do with an energy drink? Well…
From among thousands of herbs, roots, and fruits reborn from the ashes of the mysterious Tunguska Event, scientists identified the ten most concentrated with therapeutic properties and natural nutritional benefits.
Of course! After all, nothing says healing like the explosive equivalent of 5 million tons of TNT!
The ingredients of the supplement are the usual mishmash of plants generally blended into such things. They may indeed be therapeutic — there are some that have antioxidants, for example, and one has flavonoids (which I suspect is something the writers for The Simpsons made up just so Professor Frink could say it) — but as always, it pays to dig into the site, where you find this bit:
That says: "The statements on this product have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any diseases."
In other words, this product may not do anything its makers claim it does.
I am not saying this product does nothing, nor am I saying it either helps or hurts you — though I must note that many of these dietary supplements, even most of them, have not been tested at all in conjunction with the use of other supplements, which means you can sometimes get synergistic effects which can be harmful, even fatal — but what I am saying is that tying this product to the Tunguska blast is remarkably silly, even in a market known for an unlimited supply of utter nonsense.
I suspect most anyone who reads this site would know better than to buy stuff like this. But even I have to admit: the bottle is cool.
Tip o’ the homeopathic qi-aligned feng-shui induced chiropractic tin foil beanie to ToSeek, who is apparently everywhere.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:44 pm
I think I’d definitely pick some up for the kitsch factor alone. Same reason I have Roswell UFO Museum memorabilia. Good points on the Caveat Emptor but you have to admit, it’s still kinda fun.
~j
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:45 pm
So it’s not just water from the Tunguska River in a bottle? That’s what I would have expected . . .
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:54 pm
It’s got to be good for you — it’s from “ouuteerr spaaace”, don’t you know.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
To be fair, ALL supplements and herbal stuff needs that label. If they don’t have it, the FDA sues them to hell and back for marketing medication without permission or somesuch.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Why settle for a measly 5 megaton blast, when you can drink a whole supernova?
(I’ll stick with my terrible office coffee, thanks.)
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:58 pm
… a powerful dietary supplement originating from the miracle of 1908 in the Tunguska region of Russia.
Some miracle…
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:58 pm
It’s only $54.95 for a 32-oz (US quart) bottle. I don’t think the kitsch factor is worth quite that much.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:00 pm
I’ve often wondered … just how does a 20-meter-wide boulder “explode”, anyway? If it got heated from atmospheric entry, wouldn’t the heat just vaporize the outer layers first?
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Someone should start suing these people for libel on behalf of the scientific community.
“I am not a scientist, but I play one on TV.”
‘Nutribollocks’ as the Bad Science regulars call it.
And “miracle”?!! What the frag?!
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Now if this was marketed simply as a soft drink, and was a hell of a lot cheaper, that would be kind of cool. But it seems we get the usual bogus claims about health benefits. I think I’ll give this a miss.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:22 pm
POWERTHIRST!
IT HAS ELECTROLYTES
TURBOLYTES
POWERLYTES
MORE LITES THAN
YOUR BODY HAS ROOM FOR!
FLAVONOIDS!
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:23 pm
“But even I have to admit: the bottle is cool.”
Well, that’s why the marketing is not remarkably silly – it works! People generally prefer to buy cool things, even if the coolness has nothing to do with what the product actually does. It’s probably actually a few steps more honest than using bikini-clad women to sell cars.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Not that I suppose I really care, but… are they actually claiming that the SOURCE of their ingredients is the area around the Tunguska event, or just that herbs and whatnots that are also found around there were used as sources, but not actually SOURCED from Tunguska?
CJSF
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:37 pm
tracer: “I’ve often wondered … just how does a 20-meter-wide boulder “explode”, anyway? If it got heated from atmospheric entry, wouldn’t the heat just vaporize the outer layers first?”
Phil, this would be a great blog post not just a comment reply.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Actually Phil, flavonoids are very common secondary metabolites in plants, which includes anthocyanins. But nice joke.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Flavonoids are found in red wine, dark chocolate and some dark beers – a fairly well researched subject but to be fair it does sound like something a candy company would invent.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
serenity said:
> To be fair, ALL supplements and herbal stuff needs that label. If they don’t have it, the FDA sues them to hell and back for marketing medication without permission or somesuch.
To be fair, all supplements and herbal stuff need that label precisely because they are not subject to scientific testing to validate their safety and efficacy. So they may not work, and they may be dangerous, but they are being marketed as healthy and “healing” and getting away with it because of a loophole that they aren’t “medicine”.
So what else does this website say?
Yes, they claim that there are mysterious and unexplainable botanical benefits to the area.
More on the biological effect:
Okay, note they mention contamination. I think they are alluding to nuclear contamination, such as might come from a nuclear bomb. If so, they are confused, probably because the measure of the blast is in megatons, which is most frequently seen in measuring blasts from nuclear bombs. Mostly because it takes a heck of a lot of conventional explosives to make that kind of blast. I doubt that much conventional explosive has ever been used at once. Ergo, the confusion of “megatons” with “nuclear”.
Now there is also the claim about the vegetation growing back faster and larger than anywhere else. I’d like some documentation of this.
They also appear to be claiming that they use botanicals grown only in the Tunguska region.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Of course! After all, nothing says healing like the explosive equivalent of 5 million tons of TNT!
What, you don’t believe in ‘Survival of the Fittest’?
Somebody e-mail Ben Stein!
J/P=?
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Mmmmmm, looks delicious and refreshing though, of course it came from an “act of god”. There is no other valid explanation for this drink to have come into existance other than a “miracle”. A marketing miracle that is…. pbbbb, I’ll bet this product is “out of sight” in a few years.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:35 pm
My understanding of the Tunguska research is that the only health-related stuff that got any kind of test, and even that wasn’t research, was bug repellant.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Irishman: According to my girlfriend’s father (who works for a major pharmaceutical company), it’s not even possible to get supplements approved in the US. This may be a legal obstacle (they aren’t regulated as drugs so you can’t get the paperwork, perhaps?), but there’s definitely a practical one: you can’t patent it, so who’s going to pay for the clinical trials and such?
The end result is that colloidal silver is put in the same category as, say, glucosamine…which definitely looks promising.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm
The box the bottles come in is cool too, it reminds me of the Toho Company logo from all those Japanese movies.
Brand Design: Two thumbs up.
Unfortunately a good design and a load nonsense is all they need. They didn’t even make the effort to make it sound even a little bit plausible, but they don’t have to, people will swallow it raw and even expand on the silly logic provided by the snake oil sales people.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:41 pm
It took us a few hundred years to form a medical community based on empirical data, testing, and evidence. What did that get us? Longer lives, open heart surgery, and cancer treatment.
And eating herb and berried we find on the ground got us…
People make me sick.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:42 pm
@tracer
I’ve often wondered … just how does a 20-meter-wide boulder “explode”, anyway? If it got heated from atmospheric entry, wouldn’t the heat just vaporize the outer layers first?
Maybe someone else can give a better explanation, but I believe it works like this:
The deceleration of the leading edge in the thickening atmosphere causes the object to be compressed with a force greater than its material strength. As a result, it flies apart, delivering its kinetic energy into the atmosphere.
If the object is small enough it will burn up.
If the object is big enough, it will hit before this matters (at which point it will be compressed a LOT when it impacts and delivers its kinetic energy to the planet, with the resulting explosion).
If it’s some arbitrary smallish-middle size, it will ablate a bunch, slow to terminal velocity, and land with an unceremonious thud.
If it’s some arbitrary biggish-middle size, it will explode.
What “big”, “small”, “smallish-middle size”, and “biggish-middle size” is dependent on what the object is made of, how fast it’s moving, and the angle of entry.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:06 pm
> “even I have to admit: the bottle is cool.”
It looks like a dog’s penis. If that seems cool to you, I guess the bottle will too.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:09 pm
A Friend of Mine, Actually Tried to Get me to Buy into a Franchise for Selling this Load of Clap-Trap …
I Told her she could Try Again ONLY If she found me Some Scientific Proof of The Product’s Claims …
Ya’ Know what, I haven’t Heard from her Since!
:-O
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Wait just a frackin’ minute! I thought the post early on about the price was a joke. $54.99 for a QUART of this Q@#%^%??!?!?!
Man, are there really that many stupid people out there??
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Man, the feedback needs an edit option…
Did anyone else read the ingredients? The “proprietary blend” constitutes 2 ml of that quart. First and second in the other ingredients are purified water and all-natural fructose (derived from grain – translation: High Fructose Corn Syrup).
In other words, you’re paying $55 bucks for sugar water laced with a trace amount of some oogie-boogie blend of herbs that may or may not be from the Tunguska area.
Caveat Emptor, indeed.
If this company doesn’t go out of business in about 20 minutes, I weep for the future.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:40 pm
It homeopathy as well how many scams can you fit into on bottle.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:02 pm
A good quick read on nut supps:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=77
(I’m not a veterinarian, but I play one on tv….)
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Tunguska was caused by Tesla testing his death ray, so the whole product is silly.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:45 pm
No you see when Telsa tested his death ray he released vast amounts of orgone energy into the soil and the plants absorbed it.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Well, the name is kinda cool. (OK, maybe not $55/quart cool, but easily $3/ 12 oz can). “Tunguska Blast”. Its catchy. I can’t tell if the bottle says it, but they should definitely use Phil’s tag line “Put 5 Megatons in your mouth!”
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Brawndo has what plants need!
I see a segment of “The Skeptologists” where y’all are sitting around the bunker / command center / Victorian drawing room quenching your thirst, pondering the nonsense on labels.
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:43 pm
“… flavonoids (which I suspect is something the writers for The Simpsons made up just so Professor Frink could say it) …”
Bwah! I think the same thing every time I hear that radio commercial for glucosamine-chondroitan.
BTW – There are a shameful amount of commercials selling woo-woo on AM radio in the USA. I don’t know if the commercials belong to the show or the local station, but it is disconcerting to hear ads for psychics, homeopathy and magnetic bracelets during Rachel Maddow and Dan Patrick.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:08 pm
People, be careful. This product does NOT contain Adder’s tongue NOR Eye of newt so how safe can it really be?
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:17 pm
You know, I think it would be a great marketing ploy to just say you take the herbs from that area. But it SUCKS that they say it is supposedly helping.
BAH! I’ll stick to my tons of green tea varieties if I want a health drink. It comes from JAPAN! Japanophiles will think I’m COOL!
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:25 pm
I had some one describe flavonoids as being an internal cellular soap. Hooks up with the dirty molecules and forces your body to rinse. Now whether that’s a good thing or bad thing depends on a lot of other details after all too much soap dries out your skin and causes a rash.
But unless you got something extra special wrong with you demanding above normal nutrients you can get enough through balanced diet alone.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:49 pm
“Actually Phil, flavonoids are very common secondary metabolites in plants, which includes anthocyanins.”
Flavonoids are also responsible for pigments in flowers. Anthocyanins are red or blue, flavones and flavonols are mostly yellow.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:13 pm
“I think they are alluding to nuclear contamination, such as might come from a nuclear bomb. If so, they are confused, probably because the measure of the blast is in megatons”
The idea that the Tunguska event of 1908 was caused by a nuclear explosion of an alien spacecraft has been firmly entrenched in woo-woo land for quite some time. Oberg has an interesting article about it:
http://www.jamesoberg.com/ufo/tungus.html
“The “Tunguska Event” remains a puzzle for science, even as it has become a fertile subject for science fiction and UFO speculation. Recently, two TV drama critics, Thomas Atkins and John Baxter, threw together a book called The Fire Came By (Doubleday, 1976, condensed in the February 1978 Readers Digest), which insists that the only possible explanation for the event is that it was an exploding nuclear-powered interstellar spaceship. Soviet scientist Aleksey Zolotov makes the world news wires about once a year with a new version of his claim to have discovered radioactivity at the impact site. The flying-saucer subculture has firmly canonized the Tunguska Event as physical proof of UFOs.”
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:30 pm
maybe it could help those “fat galaxies”?
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Perhaps the BA could release his own energy drink…
“Chicxilub Wipeout. Made from herbs* growing near the Chicxilub impact site. It wiped out the dinosaurs, so you know it’s good for you.”
*Actual herb content not less than 0.1637%.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:54 pm
[b]space cadet[/b]:
[i]A good quick read on nut supps:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=77/i
From that article:
“For background, Airborne was launched in 1999 as a supplement designed to ward off the common cold. It has been extremely successful, due largely to its slick packaging, a clever slogan that it was developed by a school teacher, and [b]promotion by Oprah Winfrey.[/b]”
Oh dear.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:55 pm
(Obviously I have no idea how to go about formatting in this comments thingie..)
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:02 pm
C’mon. Everyone knows that the Tunguska event was a four-fold interdimensional cross-rip only rivaled by the blast in Central Park West that summoned an 80 foot marshmallow man in ‘84.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Every time someone asks me if a particular “energy” drink or pill works (I work behind a counter, so it happens a lot), I always say yes, then point out that every single one contains 200 mg of caffiene.
I am of the firm belief that almost all advertising should be illegal. Name of product, price, locations where available; no adjectives, adverbs, or descriptive clauses of any other kind, and absolutely no pictures of the product or its packaging.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:21 pm
I think Bill DeSmedt should get them to sponsor his “Singularity” podcast! (Great story, highly recommend it).
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:36 pm
BA, it’s not Prof Fink. It’s one of their “Scienticians”
From Lisa the Vegetarian
Jimmy: Uhh, Mr. McClure? I have a crazy friend who says it’s wrong to eat meat. Is he crazy?
Troy: No, just ignorant. You see, your crazy friend never heard of “The Food Chain.” Just ask this scientician.
“Scientician”: [Looks up from microscope] Uh -
Troy: He’ll tell you that, in nature, one creature invariably eats another creature to survive.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
Phil, I agree with you completely. But I do think you should maybe find a better example link about fatality from synergistic effects. The link on kava-kava explicitly says that the mechanism if kava-kava injury is unknown, not that it causes injury due to mixing kava-kava with another supplement.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Michelle, you’re COOL! (Pass the Japanese tea, please…)
Mark Hansen: “Chicxilub Wipeout” (and its description) is the funniest thing I’ve read in a long time! Thanks!
June 4th, 2008 at 12:12 am
The title of this post is quite possibly the dirtiest-sounding thing I’ve read on this site. I expected the post to be about, perhaps, a science-themed adult movie based on the life of Robert Oppenheimer.
…not that I’d be interested in such a thing. Of course.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:30 am
I have to admit it made me laugh. Part of me *does* like a good bit of clever snake oilmanship. Few things are better than a well played hoax.
Heck, *I* may by a bottle just as a knick knack.
How are people doing those quotes?
Let’s try this
June 4th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Nope.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:32 am
Eureka!
June 4th, 2008 at 12:42 am
The website allows you to testify your Tunguska Blast experience.
This product is just in time for the 100th anniversary of the event on June 30th.
June 4th, 2008 at 5:17 am
I’d give it a go. I’m a pretty big energy drink drinker. Mostly because I like the taste of most of them and like 90% of them have that caffeine hit. The rest of the woo woo babble can go spit.
June 4th, 2008 at 5:24 am
I know a clear lighted blinking box that will love this.
June 4th, 2008 at 5:40 am
I was just playing an RPG where we sent the bad guy to Tunguska in a time machine.
“Only one person is in a position to find out if it was an asteroid or a comet… and it doesn’t look like we’ll be hearing from her again.”
June 4th, 2008 at 6:15 am
This reminds me of the time my mother brought home a gigantic container of some stuff called CHA Water that someone gave her. I knew little to nothing about energy water pseudoscience before this, but it took me about thirty minutes of Googling to debunk nearly every claim made on that site.
Much of the debunking info came from this water pseudoscience information site, which I’ve been meaning to share with people ever since but keep forgetting about. It made me want to take a chemistry class.
Of course, when I tried to tell my mother about all this, she took offense and said she didn’t want to argue with me. I don’t think she’s drinking it, though.
I have no idea how much this stuff is, but I’ve got a three gallon bag-in-a-box of it taking up space in my house. I’ve contemplated having someone poke at it with science just out of curiosity, but I don’t really want to lug the thing around. Or be seen with it.
June 4th, 2008 at 6:33 am
Did anyone else catch the part in the video where the girls claims it helped her lose weight then a few seconds later a “doctor” says he gives it to patients for weight-gain?
June 4th, 2008 at 7:07 am
@Geoff
Clearly, it all depends on what you believe will happen. Remember, this is a miracle drink!
I noticed the following statement on one of their pages:
So, they’re going to collect all kinds of warm, fuzzy anecdotes because, supposedly, “science” can’t figure it out. The sad thing is, that people will actually believe that statement, rather than see it for what it is. Well-designed clinical studies would sink this product.
BA, thanks for posting this. I’m just about to start researching a paper on nutraceuticals for my graduate class. It’ll be a nice example of the low end of the spectrum of natural “health” products.
June 4th, 2008 at 8:48 am
“big”, “small”, “smallish-middle size”, and “biggish-middle size”
Nothing like complex astrophysics at work!
How ARE people doing those quotes?
June 4th, 2008 at 9:58 am
The BLOCKQUOTE tag.
June 4th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Christopher Ferro said:
> Not that I suppose I really care, but… are they actually claiming that the SOURCE of their ingredients is the area around the Tunguska event, or just that herbs and whatnots that are also found around there were used as sources, but not actually SOURCED from Tunguska?
It’s a little unclear, but I lean toward sourced from Tunguska. They claim the botanicals grown in that area have special properties, grow faster and larger and more potent, and that the cause is carried over into their product.
Jon Niehof said:
> Irishman: According to my girlfriend’s father (who works for a major pharmaceutical company), it’s not even possible to get supplements approved in the US. This may be a legal obstacle (they aren’t regulated as drugs so you can’t get the paperwork, perhaps?), but there’s definitely a practical one: you can’t patent it, so who’s going to pay for the clinical trials and such?
Yes, you can’t get them approved because of the legal loophole that they are not subject to FDA oversight, so you don’t need to get them approved, so the FDA doesn’t want to spend time on them. As for paying for clinical trials and stuff, wouldn’t that be a great place for a non-profit organization wishing to advocate for AltMed/CAM? Maybe all those AltMed/CAM practitioners who are tired of getting derided as quacks could, I don’t know, form a joint effort to get some scientific validation of their practices. Of course there is also the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (branch of the National Institute of Health).
Hey, from the handy link provided by space cadet:
Tom Marking said:
>>“I think they are alluding to nuclear contamination, such as might come from a nuclear bomb. If so, they are confused, probably because the measure of the blast is in megatons”
> The idea that the Tunguska event of 1908 was caused by a nuclear explosion of an alien spacecraft has been firmly entrenched in woo-woo land for quite some time. Oberg has an interesting article about it:
True, there is that lore, but I don’t think that’s relevant to the quote I was addressing. They were specifically saying that the scientific explanation is a giant meteor or comet, but that doesn’t explain the lack of a crater “or contamination”. What contamination could they mean? The only thing I can come up with is nuclear, and thus my
rantcomment.June 4th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Now that’s a cool name for for a drink. I would have added an exclamation mark to the name for extra OOMPH! Tunguska Blast! Spot on.
I recall early expeditions into the Tunguska area encountered swampy, insect infested waters. Yum?
The drink is worthless if it doesn’t clean the colon, remove toxins and impurities from the liver, increase virility, sharpen vision, and give me the minty fresh breath I crave. I’m picky with my choice of energy drinks.
It’s ironic how they talk about what’s scientific and unscientific, then launch into unsupported claims designed to baffle you with bull…. errrr you know. Business as usual.
June 4th, 2008 at 10:43 am
I might honestly try it. Not for any great health benefits of course. It might taste good. Though probably not.
June 4th, 2008 at 10:45 am
My favorite thing like this that I see on TV lately are those pads you put on your feet to remove toxins from your body. (I forget what they are called.) Because your body works just like a tree! Incredibly, they are even supposed to help your body remove (among other things) asbestos fibers!!
June 4th, 2008 at 10:50 am
@PG
Kinoki Foot Pads. I reported those to the FDA, since they do not include anywhere in the commercial or on their web site the disclaimer that the claims have not been reviewed by the FDA, combined with the fact that they make distinct medical claims about treating, mitigating or curing disease. Next time you see that, make a note of the time and channel and report it to the FDA’s Center for Devices and Radiologic Health.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
So, I thought I’d look into those herbs they listed as being so fantastic and came across the following sites (didn’t find reliable-looking sites for all of them, though):
Eleutherococcus senticosus (aka Siberian Ginseng) – http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/HerbsWho/0,3923,552084%7CEleutherococcus%2Bsenticosus,00.html
Crataegus oxyacantha (aka Hawthorn) – http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/HerbsWho/0,3923,4023|Crataegus+oxyacantha,00.html
Rhodiola Rosea (aka Rhodiola, Roseroot, Golden Root) – http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/HerbsWho/0,3923,9320|Rhodiola+rosea,00.html
Schizandra Chinensis – http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69365.cfm
Inonotus Obliquus (aka Chaga) – http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18203281
Glycyrrhiza Uralensis (aka Licorice) – http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18295200?dopt=Abstract
Rhaponticum Carthamoides – http://www.eje.cz/scripts/viewabstract.php?abstract=574&browsevol=92(1)
Sorry for the long web addresses. I don’t know how to format them into hyperlinked words.
For the most part, it seems like they are relatively harmless, though the first two I listed appear to have cardiovascular effects which could be dangerous in too high a dose or for too long a use. But, not knowing the bioavailability of these things from clinical trials, I can’t really say whether the amounts in the drink are likely to have any effect, let alone what their safety may be.
On a side note, does anyone know if all of the ingredients actually grow in the Tunguska Basin?
June 4th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
As for why “pseudo-pharma” (quackery stuff) isn’t overseen by the FDA, I understand that the makers of such things as vitamins, dietary supplements (e.g., protein supplements, creatine), and that entire spectrum (not quite psuedo, but just a hair under Big Pharma) lobbied furiously to not have their products regulated. They fought it tooth and nail from what I gathered.
“Tooth and nail…” that gives me an uber-idea:
(”Tooth ‘N’ Naylz: The fighter’s energy drink. Ionized like a mofo, yo! Kicks the toxins’ butts and punches their mothers. Made from real tooth-essence and nail-extract. Results guaranteed! [The statements on this product have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any diseases.] Safe! Effective! KO Those Toxins.™ Operators standing by!)
Anyway, because of the intentions of vitamin makers and dietary supplements pseudo-pharma saw their chance to put any fadistic,…erm, I mean trendy natural ingredient and make any general claim they want.
The diet-pill makers went to town. I heard this one annoying one actually saying “We couldn’t say it if it wasn’t true,” and was immediately followed by the disclaimer.
Oh, pseudo-pharma, what can’t you claim?
June 4th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
And I forgot to close a tag in that last post.
Der, I need some pseudo-pharma memory supplement, stat!
June 4th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Re: jon’s post way above (you can’t patent it). Is this true? When I’ve asked some woo-ish friends about this they tell me it’s because it is a plant.
But isn’t some huge fraction of our curent medicine derived from plants? Couldn’t the supplement folks just foolow the same proces?
June 4th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Move over, Brawndo and Bubbleshock!
June 4th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
The irony is that it gives the drinker terrible flatulence.
June 4th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
@Grendel’s dad
Not sure about patenting dietary supplements, but with medicines, the patent is for the method of treating a specific disease with a particular dose form of the product, as I understand it.
As for laws governing dietary supplements and herbals, we have President Clinton to thank for that with DSHEA. I haven’t looked at it in depth, yet, but I think that DSHEA may actually have been a slight improvement, since supplements look like they were regulated as food before that, or that there was at least some question about how it should be regulated. Frankly, if they make any health claims, I think there should be clinical trials to back ‘em up. And all dietary ingredients should be tested for safety, regardless of when they were first marketed and however much anecdotal evidence there is to claim they’re safe.
June 4th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Grendels dad said:
> Re: jon’s post way above (you can’t patent it). Is this true? When I’ve asked some woo-ish friends about this they tell me it’s because it is a plant.
The claim is that since we are talking about a straight plant extract, the formula cannot be patented because it is naturally occurring and anyone can grow, say, alfalfa, and drink a mix of it in water.
Todd W. said:
> Not sure about patenting dietary supplements, but with medicines, the patent is for the method of treating a specific disease with a particular dose form of the product, as I understand it.
No, with medicines, the patent is typically for a specific chemical formulation, and possibly also a patent for a specific process for creating that formulation. The reason medicines made from plants can be patented is because the active ingredients are separated, identified, then synthetically formulated, and then minor varients are developed that are inert to the function but chemical markers of uniqueness. But the CAM community doesn’t want chemical synthetics, they take the plant extract directly.
Thus they claim they can’t use patent protection to recoup the cost of the clinical trials. That is the claimed reason why no individual company wants to spend the dough to test their product. They spend all the money to prove alfalfa grass is safe and cures warts, then everybody else sells alfalfa grass and reaps profits while they are still recouping the cost of the studies.
>As for laws governing dietary supplements and herbals, we have President Clinton to thank for that with DSHEA.
Well, only if you blame the President for any legislation signed into law under his term.
>I haven’t looked at it in depth, yet, but I think that DSHEA may actually have been a slight improvement, since supplements look like they were regulated as food before that, or that there was at least some question about how it should be regulated.
The only improvement is the requirement that they run a generic disclaimer and don’t make specific disease claims. That improvement is very thin, given that before that there was at least the premise that anything ingested was therefore a food product and needed to meet safety requirements of the FDA.
> Frankly, if they make any health claims, I think there should be clinical trials to back ‘em up. And all dietary ingredients should be tested for safety, regardless of when they were first marketed and however much anecdotal evidence there is to claim they’re safe.
While many of us agree on that point, that is not the state of the law and it is actively opposed by the CAM advocates.
June 4th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
A family member member had somehow gotten a few bottles of this stuff for free (I had no idea they were $55 a piece). She had tried it for a while (even after I told her how useless the stuff would be) with no results (obviously). I decided to try a shot (as that is apparently how you are supposed to drink the stuff), just to see how it tastes. To everyone who said they would try it just to see if it tastes good, I must warn you, it tasted vaguely like blended lawn clippings. It was a taste that burned itself into my tongue and I could not get out for quite a while. So not only is it an expensive bottle of woo, it is also a horribly tasting bottle of woo.
June 4th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
@Chris
The horrible taste makes it more effective.
June 4th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
I’m glad some other people have shown some love to Picnicface on this one. The funny thing is that if this were just a tongue-in-cheek over-the-top POWERDRINK (again, such as Brawndo or Powerthirst) we’d be laughing it up. Instead, it has goofy health claims…
…that are nearly as overstated…
Are we absolutely certain this isn’t a joke? Or is it more wizardry and Orc mischief?
June 4th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Huh. Guess they are.
Still, they should have a funny faux-commercial. “It’s like riding a pony! That might not sound too impressive but the pony is THREE HUNDRED FEET TALL AND COVERED IN CHAINSAWS! And you have to get on top through an elevator filled with SIXTEEN LIVE COUGARS!” Or similar.
June 5th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
I’m glad they haven’t been advertising this stuff on TV, the channels I tend to watch have the second tier commercials. (Just how much crap is that loudmouth Billy whatever advertising anyway?)
I’d be immune to this sort of thing because most things with lots of herbs, etc. in them tend to have unfortunate physiological effects in me.
The woo woo thing that I’ve seen the most is “Enoki foot pads” that are supposed to remove heavy metals, and a wealth of other stuff out of your body from just being applied to your feet. (I may be spelling that wrong, but the commercial bugs me.) They are so sincere and whatever. They’re what the mute button is for….
June 5th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
@dragonet2
I posted about Kinoki Foot Pads above. I recommend reporting them to the FDA each time you see one of their commercials. Keep track of the time and channel you see them so you can pass that info on to the FDA. If enough people report them, perhaps the FDA will actually take action. It’s a long shot, since the things likely have no direct risks for the user, but I think it’s better than just hitting the mute button.
June 5th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Re: Kinoki Foot Pads
I actually just did a search for “kinoki” at the FDA web site and discovered that their Office of Regulatory Affairs has entered it into their import database with a refusal reason of “Unapproved” on March 20, 2008. (http://www.fda.gov/ora/oasis/3/ora_oasis_i_89.html)
For more information on what this means, take a look at this link:
http://www.fda.gov/ora/oasis/ora_oasis_ref_intro.html
It looks like my complaint actually worked!
June 6th, 2008 at 9:45 am
This is a winner. Hands-down.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:47 am
At least they have the disclaimer notice.
I have grown tired and cynical, no longer haranguing pharmacists about selling “magnetic therapy bracelets” or homeopathic “medicine” water.
The worst I’ve seen are several similar products with infomercials that tout their “FDA Approved” junk. These are all ridiculously complex and expensive topical heat applicators. The FDA approval (if you tape the ad and freeze on the fine print when they’re telling us how the miracle strobe-o’-comfort pulsationizing super thermo infra-caloric ultra cure mark III is fully FDA certified to eliminate pain you can see the FDA reference number) you find that the FDA accepts that applying warmth to a sore muscle feels good. That’s it. A sit in the sun, a hot water bottle, a warm hug… all FDA approved! ALso FDA approved: a $500.00 piece of junk with a LOT of flashing red LEDs and a few IR LEDs to actually provide some local warming.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Surely I’m not the only one who noted the extremely phallic nature of the bottle design? Is this a case where men don’t see the obvious, but women do? Really, at first I thought this was a marital aid.
June 30th, 2008 at 7:43 am
[...] in local flora, now captured for the modern world in a nutritional supplement (originally found via Bad Astronomy Blog). Rather than making a desert of the area, the event created a kind of Garden of Eden, an oasis of [...]
June 8th, 2009 at 12:21 am
Can you provide me with some more information on this? Thanks – Chuck